Problem with Serpent's Ire meta events and branded area of Vabbi.

[Amasage.6905]

Well. Still nothing with this stupid event. Still NO ONE wants to do it... To earlier comment... Yes i know that skimmer give you immunity, but you can't fight on mount. And it doesn't help that safe spots are seems unreliable especially when you fighting. If we talking about TTS calendar... it just doesn't match my schedule... and at nigths i would rather slepp. Thanks for strategies for later part but i doubt i will be using them soon... it would be nice if lack of strategy was a problem but no... It's the lack of people and i blame bad design of ANET. Sorry for rant but needed to let some steam out.

[Ayrilana.1396]

Bad design does not equate to “I don’t like it”.

 

The main issue is that there’s not enough reason to do it after the collections and achievement. Rewards need to be added to the same level as AB.

[Pifil.5193]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> Bad design does not equate to “I don’t like it”.

>

> The main issue is that there’s not enough reason to do it after the collections and achievement. Rewards need to be added to the same level as AB.

 

The rewards are part of the bad design of this event, really. It's long (can easily take 45 minutes to complete) can easily fail and gives terrible rewards. If we compare it with AB you can see why people don't bother with it.

[ReV.6097]

My only issue with PoF has always been how baddly the rewards are for things that are not story or bounty related.

I wish Anet would do something about it to add the incentive for players.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Pifil.5193" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > Bad design does not equate to “I don’t like it”.

> >

> > The main issue is that there’s not enough reason to do it after the collections and achievement. Rewards need to be added to the same level as AB.

>

> The rewards are part of the bad design of this event, really. It's long (can easily take 45 minutes to complete) can easily fail and gives terrible rewards. If we compare it with AB you can see why people don't bother with it.

 

It’s not badly designed because you do not like it. An example of bad design would be something that puts players unnecessarily at odds with each other such as what they had originally done with legendary collections and having many items requiring events to fail.

 

The whole search for veterans (or were they elites?) part is uneccessary, in my opinion, and could be removed as it doesn’t really offer anything to the meta as far as I can tell. That is if Anet agrees as I don’t have any really issues with it. It’s just one way that the meta could be shortened if it’s duration was causing issues.

[Vavume.8065]

> @"Amasage.6905" said:

> Or maybe it's stupid game design with lightning striking you every few second and annoying you to no end...

 

Yeah that.

[ugrakarma.9416]

i hosted some Serpents Ire in the past, wasnt so hard to fill 50/50 squad, and a extra squad with 10 ppl.

There are fewer people playing these days? cuz in the time i hosted I did not do anything special, just split the squad into positions.

[Rauderi.8706]

> @"Amasage.6905" said:

> GIVE MASTERY GRANTING IMMUNITY TO BRANDED STORM?!

 

Why was this not a thing at launch?

On the one hand, Brandstorm is a cute game of hide and seek or die from the lightning, but after a while, it's just a nuisance. Some sort of Brandstorm mastery would be great.

Maybe even a mastery track?

1 - Resistance: Targeted less and take less damage

2 - Immunity: Brandstorm doesn't do damage

3 - Backlash: Brandstorm does damage to enemies around you

4 - Resonance: Backlash does more damage over a wider area and dazes

 

Though, side note: Being on the skimmer doesn't proc Brandstorm, because you're not on the ground. Float free, soldiers!

 

 

[Pifil.5193]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"Pifil.5193" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > Bad design does not equate to “I don’t like it”.

> > >

> > > The main issue is that there’s not enough reason to do it after the collections and achievement. Rewards need to be added to the same level as AB.

> >

> > The rewards are part of the bad design of this event, really. It's long (can easily take 45 minutes to complete) can easily fail and gives terrible rewards. If we compare it with AB you can see why people don't bother with it.

>

> It’s not badly designed because you do not like it. An example of bad design would be something that puts players unnecessarily at odds with each other such as what they had originally done with legendary collections and having many items requiring events to fail.

>

> The whole search for veterans (or were they elites?) part is uneccessary, in my opinion, and could be removed as it doesn’t really offer anything to the meta as far as I can tell. That is if Anet agrees as I don’t have any really issues with it. It’s just one way that the meta could be shortened if it’s duration was causing issues.

 

Similarly, it's not well designed because you like it. I don't like it because it's badly designed, not the other way around.

 

Phase one, the veteran search is a waste of time and acts as a deterrent to participation, why waste your time on this phase when you could get much better rewards and have more fun in other events. It can fail too, preventing progression. It doesn't do a very good job of gathering people for the second phase.

 

Then that leads to phase two, the priest defiance bar CC race, which is a terrible idea because they have never communicated what works well in doing defiance bar damage - or indeed how it works at all - so many people don't understand how it works. There's a high chance of this failing rendering the previous 15 minutes a waste of time and forcing people into an hour and a half wait for the next chance, that's also bad design. When this fails it leads to hostility amongst the players as they bicker and blame one another. Putting collections behind this event just makes it even more of a chore and only worsens the mood when it fails.

 

Phase three is fine, IMO, the rewards for the event are terrible though.

 

You can argue that these are not examples of bad design then it's just a difference of opinion, I find the event as designed to be a tedious waste of time.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"ReV.6097" said:

> My only issue with PoF has always been how baddly the rewards are for things that are not story or bounty related.

> I wish Anet would do something about it to add the incentive for players.

 

I got my Gryphon and unlocked my masteries a few weeks ago.

I hit 100 victories in Tarir (AB) last week.

I've participated in the Tarir Meta (AB) almost daily (sometimes multiple times per day) over the past week.

I still have not returned back to PoF.

 

From a leveling perspective, PoF was way friendlier than HoT, but once you have all your masteries unlocked, HoT is far more rewarding than PoF.

 

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

The phase 1 hunt is important. The reason is this: a lot of players will only show up for an event right at the moment it starts. In order to accommodate this, the first event for a lot of big meta events consists of of a smaller, simpler even that gives players time to arrive and organize. I've had a few successful runs where around half of the squad didn't arrive until after phase 1 had already begun. I can be shouting in map chat for an hour, and people will think I'm just some crazy guy, but when the event starts and I already have 30 people, then players will think "this guy has a chance" and join up.

 

The only real design flaw is in phase 2. Particularly, how the scaling shields dynamically adjust the amount of damage taken. Unless I am mistaken, this dynamic damage adjustment renders all condition builds worthless. This _is not an opinion._ Having a poorly explained mechanic render half of the game's builds useless with no warning is pretty bad. If the shield buffs are fixed so that it only affects conditions on application and doesn't dynamically scale, that would make phase 2 much easier.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Pifil.5193" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > @"Pifil.5193" said:

> > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > Bad design does not equate to “I don’t like it”.

> > > >

> > > > The main issue is that there’s not enough reason to do it after the collections and achievement. Rewards need to be added to the same level as AB.

> > >

> > > The rewards are part of the bad design of this event, really. It's long (can easily take 45 minutes to complete) can easily fail and gives terrible rewards. If we compare it with AB you can see why people don't bother with it.

> >

> > It’s not badly designed because you do not like it. An example of bad design would be something that puts players unnecessarily at odds with each other such as what they had originally done with legendary collections and having many items requiring events to fail.

> >

> > The whole search for veterans (or were they elites?) part is uneccessary, in my opinion, and could be removed as it doesn’t really offer anything to the meta as far as I can tell. That is if Anet agrees as I don’t have any really issues with it. It’s just one way that the meta could be shortened if it’s duration was causing issues.

>

> Similarly, it's not well designed because you like it. I don't like it because it's badly designed, not the other way around.

 

I don’t really care for the meta because the rewards are not worth my time. Lack of meaningful rewards, or at least meaningful to me, does not qualify as bad design.

 

> Phase one, the veteran search is a waste of time and acts as a deterrent to participation, why waste your time on this phase when you could get much better rewards and have more fun in other events. It can fail too, preventing progression. It doesn't do a very good job of gathering people for the second phase.

 

I don’t disagree with this and wouldn’t be surprised if this was removed to shorten the meta **if** Anet felt it was necessary.

 

> Then that leads to phase two, the priest defiance bar CC race, which is a terrible idea because they have never communicated what works well in doing defiance bar damage - or indeed how it works at all - so many people don't understand how it works. There's a high chance of this failing rendering the previous 15 minutes a waste of time and forcing people into an hour and a half wait for the next chance, that's also bad design. When this fails it leads to hostility amongst the players as they bicker and blame one another. Putting collections behind this event just makes it even more of a chore and only worsens the mood when it fails.

 

CC is well documented on the wiki as the game does not have an in-game manual. There are also guides, which are easily searchable, on how each class can perform CC. Well organized runs also tend to have commanders that explain this as well.

 

> Phase three is fine, IMO, the rewards for the event are terrible though.

>

> You can argue that these are not examples of bad design then it's just a difference of opinion, I find the event as designed to be a tedious waste of time.

 

So if someone dislikes something about raids then it must be that raids are badly designed?

 

[Pifil.5193]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"Pifil.5193" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > @"Pifil.5193" said:

> > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > Bad design does not equate to “I don’t like it”.

> > > > >

> > > > > The main issue is that there’s not enough reason to do it after the collections and achievement. Rewards need to be added to the same level as AB.

> > > >

> > > > The rewards are part of the bad design of this event, really. It's long (can easily take 45 minutes to complete) can easily fail and gives terrible rewards. If we compare it with AB you can see why people don't bother with it.

> > >

> > > It’s not badly designed because you do not like it. An example of bad design would be something that puts players unnecessarily at odds with each other such as what they had originally done with legendary collections and having many items requiring events to fail.

> > >

> > > The whole search for veterans (or were they elites?) part is uneccessary, in my opinion, and could be removed as it doesn’t really offer anything to the meta as far as I can tell. That is if Anet agrees as I don’t have any really issues with it. It’s just one way that the meta could be shortened if it’s duration was causing issues.

> >

> > Similarly, it's not well designed because you like it. I don't like it because it's badly designed, not the other way around.

>

> I don’t really care for the meta because the rewards are not worth my time. Lack of meaningful rewards, or at least meaningful to me, does not qualify as bad design.

>

> > Phase one, the veteran search is a waste of time and acts as a deterrent to participation, why waste your time on this phase when you could get much better rewards and have more fun in other events. It can fail too, preventing progression. It doesn't do a very good job of gathering people for the second phase.

>

> I don’t disagree with this and wouldn’t be surprised if this was removed to shorten the meta **if** Anet felt it was necessary.

>

> > Then that leads to phase two, the priest defiance bar CC race, which is a terrible idea because they have never communicated what works well in doing defiance bar damage - or indeed how it works at all - so many people don't understand how it works. There's a high chance of this failing rendering the previous 15 minutes a waste of time and forcing people into an hour and a half wait for the next chance, that's also bad design. When this fails it leads to hostility amongst the players as they bicker and blame one another. Putting collections behind this event just makes it even more of a chore and only worsens the mood when it fails.

>

> CC is well documented on the wiki as the game does not have an in-game manual. There are also guides, which are easily searchable, on how each class can perform CC. Well organized runs also tend to have commanders that explain this as well.

 

Yeah, that's super, there are some good YouTube videos too but if it doesn't happen in game then it doesn't happen for most players. Most players want to play a game they're not looking to research a bunch of stuff. Commanders explaining it is great but I my experience that comes down to "use CC skills" and the CC skills available to each class and the effectiveness of those skills is hugely variable.

 

Either way, none of that invalidates what I said.

 

> > Phase three is fine, IMO, the rewards for the event are terrible though.

> >

> > You can argue that these are not examples of bad design then it's just a difference of opinion, I find the event as designed to be a tedious waste of time.

>

> So if someone dislikes something about raids then it must be that raids are badly designed?

>

 

No, that's daft and I have no idea where that notion came from, _reasons_ should be provided explaining why the person _thinks_ it's a bad design. The whole point here is that good or bad design is a matter of opinion. I assume you don't think that there's one "true" good design or anything as silly as that?

[Amasage.6905]

Well even if people doesn't like something about mechanics in raids, rewards are good incentives to suffer thourgh and getting better. Also raids doesn't require as much people as this meta event... And there isn't about 2 hour waiting if you fail... No matter how you look at this rewards are important and you do everything for them in this game.

 

[ReV.6097]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > @"ReV.6097" said:

> > My only issue with PoF has always been how baddly the rewards are for things that are not story or bounty related.

> > I wish Anet would do something about it to add the incentive for players.

>

> I got my Gryphon and unlocked my masteries a few weeks ago.

> I hit 100 victories in Tarir (AB) last week.

> I've participated in the Tarir Meta (AB) almost daily (sometimes multiple times per day) over the past week.

> I still have not returned back to PoF.

>

> From a leveling perspective, PoF was way friendlier than HoT, but once you have all your masteries unlocked, HoT is far more rewarding than PoF.

>

 

This completely sums up one of the main things where they went wrong with PoF.

 

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

> @"ReV.6097" said:

> > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > > @"ReV.6097" said:

> > > My only issue with PoF has always been how baddly the rewards are for things that are not story or bounty related.

> > > I wish Anet would do something about it to add the incentive for players.

> >

> > I got my Gryphon and unlocked my masteries a few weeks ago.

> > I hit 100 victories in Tarir (AB) last week.

> > I've participated in the Tarir Meta (AB) almost daily (sometimes multiple times per day) over the past week.

> > I still have not returned back to PoF.

> >

> > From a leveling perspective, PoF was way friendlier than HoT, but once you have all your masteries unlocked, HoT is far more rewarding than PoF.

> >

>

> This completely sums up one of the main things where they went wrong with PoF.

>

 

It was definitely a bizarre situation. When HoT came out, people kept complaining that they hated having meta events anchored to a clock that consumed the entire map. Anet listened, and now that PoF maps gave players exactly what they wanted, now players are complaining that they don't have those big meta events.

 

Squeaky wheel and all. Turns out, content people don't complain, so you'll always get a skewed perspective.

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"Pifil.5193" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > Bad design does not equate to “I don’t like it”.

> >

> > The main issue is that there’s not enough reason to do it after the collections and achievement. Rewards need to be added to the same level as AB.

>

> The rewards are part of the bad design of this event, really. It's long (can easily take 45 minutes to complete) can easily fail and gives terrible rewards. If we compare it with AB you can see why people don't bother with it.

 

If it fails it won't take 45 minutes :P

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"Pifil.5193" said:

> Phase three is fine, IMO, the rewards for the event are terrible though.

>

> You can argue that these are not examples of bad design then it's just a difference of opinion, I find the event as designed to be a tedious waste of time.

 

Phase three isn't not very good either. Forgotten is boring. Hydra is annoying if you try to fight the two at the same time(there is no benefit to doing that) or basically irrelevant if you have a group drag it to the side while you deal with the forgotten. The range/melee mechanic is an inferior version of phase-shift.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> **Important notes**

> This is not a "play how I want" event. CC is poorly balanced across classes, so you'll specifically need classes that have good CC in order to do the event, and they'll have to be in power builds.

>

> Personally I think this event should be nerfed. Fact is, commanding a map of random players is like herding cats. There's a reason why EVOS takes over an hour to set up Triple Trouble, and essentially only allows their own guild to do it. The shields that each zealot buffs out should be reduced from a 33% damage reduction to a 20% damage reduction. That would make the event a whole lot more fair, especially to condi builds that are otherwise useless.

 

Those are some great insights, and thank you for trying to lead this open world event on a regular basis.

 

The first sentence I quoted is particularly poignant. I've killed pretty much every world boss, and have done most of the meta events, and while for some activities you would be wise to switch out some of your utility skills for improved performance, in none of those cases was the event at risk of failure if you decided not to.

 

I'm all for an organized (read: instanced) events where you build a group, decide on a strategy and execute it for fame and loot, but I don't think the same requirements should apply to open world / meta events, at least not to that level. Octovine, DS, TT, and even Shatterer all have mechanics that separate it from your run of the mill open world Champion fight, but aren't so punishingly complex as to make it impossible for any random player to participate with the expectation of success.

 

I completed my first TT about 2 weeks after starting the game - I had no idea what was going on, but I listened to the Commander, I ran the colors I was told to, ez peazy. My first Octovine event was a head scratcher, as I didn't know what I was supposed to do - but the event was successful, and I quickly learned the requirements for each lane - but I never had to deviate from my existing build to make it work.

 

Hopefully this is something ANET is open to adjusting, although they may be more focused on new content vs. revamping existing content.

 

[SlippyCheeze.5483]

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > @"ReV.6097" said:

> > > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > > > @"ReV.6097" said:

> > > > My only issue with PoF has always been how baddly the rewards are for things that are not story or bounty related.

> > > > I wish Anet would do something about it to add the incentive for players.

> > >

> > > I got my Gryphon and unlocked my masteries a few weeks ago.

> > > I hit 100 victories in Tarir (AB) last week.

> > > I've participated in the Tarir Meta (AB) almost daily (sometimes multiple times per day) over the past week.

> > > I still have not returned back to PoF.

> > >

> > > From a leveling perspective, PoF was way friendlier than HoT, but once you have all your masteries unlocked, HoT is far more rewarding than PoF.

> > >

> >

> > This completely sums up one of the main things where they went wrong with PoF.

> >

>

> It was definitely a bizarre situation. When HoT came out, people kept complaining that they hated having meta events anchored to a clock that consumed the entire map. Anet listened, and now that PoF maps gave players exactly what they wanted, now players are complaining that they don't have those big meta events.

 

The story of Wildstar, writ large.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> I'm all for an organized (read: instanced) events where you build a group, decide on a strategy and execute it for fame and loot, but I don't think the same requirements should apply to open world / meta events, at least not to that level. Octovine, DS, TT, and even Shatterer all have mechanics that separate it from your run of the mill open world Champion fight, but aren't so punishingly complex as to make it impossible for any random player to participate with the expectation of success.

 

How’s having players using CC punishingly complex?

 

[Pifil.5193]

> @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said:

> > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > > @"ReV.6097" said:

> > > > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > > > > @"ReV.6097" said:

> > > > > My only issue with PoF has always been how baddly the rewards are for things that are not story or bounty related.

> > > > > I wish Anet would do something about it to add the incentive for players.

> > > >

> > > > I got my Gryphon and unlocked my masteries a few weeks ago.

> > > > I hit 100 victories in Tarir (AB) last week.

> > > > I've participated in the Tarir Meta (AB) almost daily (sometimes multiple times per day) over the past week.

> > > > I still have not returned back to PoF.

> > > >

> > > > From a leveling perspective, PoF was way friendlier than HoT, but once you have all your masteries unlocked, HoT is far more rewarding than PoF.

> > > >

> > >

> > > This completely sums up one of the main things where they went wrong with PoF.

> > >

> >

> > It was definitely a bizarre situation. When HoT came out, people kept complaining that they hated having meta events anchored to a clock that consumed the entire map. Anet listened, and now that PoF maps gave players exactly what they wanted, now players are complaining that they don't have those big meta events.

>

> The story of Wildstar, writ large.

 

Oh now, isn't that the truth!

 

I remember all the people so excited about the prospects of 40 man raids in that game, people I'd raided with in WoW who missed vanilla, the people the Wildstar devs were listening to and marketing to.

 

People who ultimately thought they wanted all this but for one reason or another just didn't or couldn't commit the time to it anymore, who had forgot the pain of trying to get 39 other people into an instance or simply weren't actually interested in switching MMOs.

 

Fun little game though.

[SlippyCheeze.5483]

> @"Pifil.5193" said:

> > @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said:

> > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > > > @"ReV.6097" said:

> > > > > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > > > > > @"ReV.6097" said:

> > > > > > My only issue with PoF has always been how baddly the rewards are for things that are not story or bounty related.

> > > > > > I wish Anet would do something about it to add the incentive for players.

> > > > >

> > > > > I got my Gryphon and unlocked my masteries a few weeks ago.

> > > > > I hit 100 victories in Tarir (AB) last week.

> > > > > I've participated in the Tarir Meta (AB) almost daily (sometimes multiple times per day) over the past week.

> > > > > I still have not returned back to PoF.

> > > > >

> > > > > From a leveling perspective, PoF was way friendlier than HoT, but once you have all your masteries unlocked, HoT is far more rewarding than PoF.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > This completely sums up one of the main things where they went wrong with PoF.

> > > >

> > >

> > > It was definitely a bizarre situation. When HoT came out, people kept complaining that they hated having meta events anchored to a clock that consumed the entire map. Anet listened, and now that PoF maps gave players exactly what they wanted, now players are complaining that they don't have those big meta events.

> >

> > The story of Wildstar, writ large.

>

> Oh now, isn't that the truth!

>

> I remember all the people so excited about the prospects of 40 man raids in that game, people I'd raided with in WoW who missed vanilla, the people the Wildstar devs were listening to and marketing to.

>

> People who ultimately thought they wanted all this but for one reason or another just didn't or couldn't commit the time to it anymore, who had forgot the pain of trying to get 39 other people into an instance or simply weren't actually interested in switching MMOs.

>

> Fun little game though.

 

Yah. Back on topic, I honestly think the whole situation is that PoF vs HoT is two different groups of people griping about the whole thing, plus a bit of "not working enough for the rewards". It's all guesswork and personal opinion, of course, but hey, what else is the thread?

 

I think that if the zone-wide meta events of HoT were deployed in PoF we would see the same amount of complaints, just from the people who *don't* like zone-wide metas that dominate everything. Since they went a new way, we see the gripes from the people who *do* like them. At heart, different people enjoy different styles of things, and nothing can satisfy every player.

 

I think the meta events in PoF are actually at a good size and scale, but could benefit from more "supporting events" wrapped around the metas: more dynamic events that contribute, but are optional, to make them feel like a larger and more integrated part of the world. They feel a bit like too sudden and self-contained an event to me.

 

The other part is that most of the HoT metas make you work harder for your rewards. Not, and I mean explicitly *NOT* in the sense that the content is harder, but rather ... many of the PoF metas just give you the reward on kill. Hit the boss, it dies, you get some rewards, and off you go. This is the core World Boss model of rewards, and it's ... OK. I mean, you get nice stuff, great, fine.

 

HoT, on the other hand, you spend a non-trivial amount of time running around to get your reward: pick up keys from a vendor and events, run through the reward areas opening container after container, curse when someone drops an aviator box under a chest, spend time in it. The same is true of the Bitterfrost chests, too: work to interact, get many small rewards.

 

That extra effort, even though it is literally just running from place to place and clicking "interact", means people have a greater sense of reward from the whole thing. The Istan meta raid on the city is in a similar boat: lots of things to kill, involved, and then you run around all over the shop collecting those chests for rewards. It **feels** more rewarding than, for example, Serpent's Ire did to me when I ran through it. That just felt like "Tequatl with some boring dynamic events" to me. There wasn't much more complexity. (...and I'm pretty into treating the game like a fancy version of solitaire: I don't need it to be unique, or have huge rewards. just playing is soothing and fun, getting into the rhythm, that sort of thing.)

 

My hope is that ANet will fold together these aspects, and possibly also the "some item that is in limited supply once a day for completing it" that the per-zone chests with the Amalgemated Gemstone in HoT give, in future. By making people work for the reward after the big event, it gives them a greater sense of investment in the whole reward part, enhancing it, without necessarily changing the amount of reward for effort in the slightest.

[Rauderi.8706]

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> It was definitely a bizarre situation. When HoT came out, people kept complaining that they hated having meta events anchored to a clock that consumed the entire map. Anet listened, and now that PoF maps gave players exactly what they wanted, now players are complaining that they don't have those big meta events.

>

> Squeaky wheel and all. Turns out, content people don't complain, so you'll always get a skewed perspective.

 

It kinda boils down to a few goals:

1. Basic participation and playing for fun. We don't want to chase clocks or death-taxi (...Dragon Stand) just to play the flippin' game.

2. Collection targeting. The one-and-done approach. Again, we're not going to want to chase clocks for it, but if we enjoy it, we might come back.

3. Rewards. Istan is off the clock in the same way Silverwastes is. The meta apparently gives huge rewards enough to justify quick map cycling and participation.

 

Problem is, the PoF metas are . . flat as far as participating, so they're not great for fun. So, unless they reward really well or force us to participate somehow (collections), we're going to find somewhere else to be. And since so much of the game is level-80, endgame content, populations are going to be spread out, even with megaserver guidance.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > I'm all for an organized (read: instanced) events where you build a group, decide on a strategy and execute it for fame and loot, but I don't think the same requirements should apply to open world / meta events, at least not to that level. Octovine, DS, TT, and even Shatterer all have mechanics that separate it from your run of the mill open world Champion fight, but aren't so punishingly complex as to make it impossible for any random player to participate with the expectation of success.

>

> How’s having players using CC punishingly complex?

>

 

Doing it well requires an understanding of what good CCPS is, as well as what good DPS is. In general, the population of the world cannot grasp the concept of rates. Also, apparently the concept of shapes and colors is hard.