Zefrost.3425 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 How about mirages teleport hacking while stealthed in WvW and using endurance hacks to further exacerbate the problem? Yeah, I notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"phokus.8934" said: > > @"Specialka.7290" said: > > > @"phokus.8934" said: > > > > @"Poelala.2830" said: > > > > Have you read the forum posts about them? If not, I suggest you do. > > > Read the completely misguided and drivel from people who lie about an elite? > > > > > > > So mirage is fine for you? Ppl are absolutely not carried by mirage builds? > > The only problem with Mirage is Elusive Mind. It's the lies that people say about "all these evades, blocks, invulns, 100-0" nonsense that doesn't leave much for conversation. They put Chrono and Mirage into one bucket and let frustration type rather than sensibility. Being unable to stun the mesmer is far from being the real problem...that's why mesmers use it an excuse to cover the real problems: - too much in/out combat mobility with ambush/jaunt - too much reflect uptime that effectively shutdown ranged spikes - the ability to chain defense skills/traits while the clones do the dmg/stealth and burst and if fail start chaining reflect/distortion again Yeah..the problem we're having is not being able to stun the mesmer once every 30/40s /sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaShi.1368 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 Rangers are primarily complaining because mirage is pretty much the only spec that has a chance to beat them. Once rangers are nerfed down to the point where other specs are threatening to them, we'll see a lot fewer threads about mesmers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapasmurf.5623 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"ugrakarma.9416" said: > counter to mirage: play scourge + aoe spam. Nah. These scourges who do this are beaten easily as they are quick to blow all AoE abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapasmurf.5623 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 Its funny to read these posts as a Mirage player. Mainly because complaints are with abilities/traits/weapons I dont generally use. Guess im a minority of those mirages that can beat people through actual skill that ppl cannot really complain about, o rppl just need something to complain about...either way... GO ME! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poelala.2830 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"DaShi.1368" said: > Rangers are primarily complaining because mirage is pretty much the only spec that has a chance to beat them. Once rangers are nerfed down to the point where other specs are threatening to them, we'll see a lot fewer threads about mesmers. Warriors can beat rangers with ease also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaShi.1368 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 Ranger say everything can beat them with ease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwaihir.1745 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 It's funny when you duel a mesmer and win because of the suprise they exhibit at someone standing up to their level of op bs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTGuevara.9018 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 The hate is deserved. Mirage has way too much torment stacking. Not to mention lots of defenses, blocks, blinds, invulns and clone spamming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbosos.2063 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > - too much reflect uptime that effectively shutdown ranged spikes Wat. You mean a maximum of 4 seconds Distortion every 42.5 seconds that makes it a big fat 9.4% reflection uptime at best and a 2.3% reflection uptime at worse? Last time I checked, rapid fire was on a 10 seconds CD, plenty of time to have it not be reflected. Get a clue please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toron.4856 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Being able to burst people whole doding Being unstunnable Portal Stealth Invuln Blink jaunt phase retreat (lololol) Stealth And doing more burst dmg with condi than most power classes (isnt condi damage over time? Lul) Oh and clone spam To name the main aspects Basically, have a look at the abilities of all the other 8 classes. Mix all the good features into one and create a unkillable class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simonoly.4352 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 There's a few things that need to be looked at and Anet should change the functionality of a couple of Mirage traits. But other than that, it's mostly just hysteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryrok.1302 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"DaShi.1368" said: > Ranger say everything can beat them with ease. Case in point: in WvW the only things I can 1v1 are the guards and dolyaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phokus.8934 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"Bigbosos.2063" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > - too much reflect uptime that effectively shutdown ranged spikes > > > > Wat. You mean a maximum of 4 seconds Distortion every 42.5 seconds that makes it a big fat 9.4% reflection uptime at best and a 2.3% reflection uptime at worse? > Last time I checked, rapid fire was on a 10 seconds CD, plenty of time to have it not be reflected. > > Get a clue please. > > Exactly this. The nonsense posted by @"Arheundel.6451" is what I'm referring to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletonman.5348 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"phokus.8934" said: > > @"Bigbosos.2063" said: > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > - too much reflect uptime that effectively shutdown ranged spikes > > > > > > > > Wat. You mean a maximum of 4 seconds Distortion every 42.5 seconds that makes it a big fat 9.4% reflection uptime at best and a 2.3% reflection uptime at worse? > > Last time I checked, rapid fire was on a 10 seconds CD, plenty of time to have it not be reflected. > > > > Get a clue please. > > > > > > Exactly this. The nonsense posted by @"Arheundel.6451" is what I'm referring to. rapid fire can be interrupted dodged blocked distorted LOS'ed you can portal, blink away or just stealth around before he casts it while you are dodging rapid fire the mesmer can burst the ranger. distortion is only one of many ascpets that make mesmers so strong. im more worried about other stuff like elusive mind tho. but honestly, being untouchable 9.4% of the entire time is dumb. because on top you can add like what? 10% of the time your doding 10% of the time ur in stealth 30% of the time u los when playing chrono ull also have tons of blocks covering like 10% of the time on top of that u spam clones and blink all over the places and if u ever happen to lose a fight, portal away :) pls, stop ur nonsense with the rapid fire CD. ur insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kako.1930 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 It seems like a mirage managed to get beaten by a ranger in a duel somehow. Wow. That's one matchup where the mirage should win 100% of the time. ? (No offense to rangers. The odds just aren't in your favor. Kudos if you do wreck a mirage in a duel though!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbosos.2063 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"skeletonman.5348" said: > > @"phokus.8934" said: > > > @"Bigbosos.2063" said: > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > - too much reflect uptime that effectively shutdown ranged spikes > > > > > > > > > > > > Wat. You mean a maximum of 4 seconds Distortion every 42.5 seconds that makes it a big fat 9.4% reflection uptime at best and a 2.3% reflection uptime at worse? > > > Last time I checked, rapid fire was on a 10 seconds CD, plenty of time to have it not be reflected. > > > > > > Get a clue please. > > > > > > > > > > Exactly this. The nonsense posted by @"Arheundel.6451" is what I'm referring to. > > rapid fire can be interrupted > dodged > blocked > distorted > LOS'ed > you can portal, blink away or just stealth around before he casts it > > while you are dodging rapid fire the mesmer can burst the ranger. > > distortion is only one of many ascpets that make mesmers so strong. im more worried about other stuff like elusive mind tho. > > but honestly, being untouchable 9.4% of the entire time is dumb. > because on top you can add like what? 10% of the time your doding > 10% of the time ur in stealth > 30% of the time u los > when playing chrono ull also have tons of blocks covering like 10% of the time > > on top of that u spam clones and blink all over the places and if u ever happen to lose a fight, portal away :) > > pls, stop ur nonsense with the rapid fire CD. ur insane. You said "too much reflect uptime". I just proved you wrong. Everything else you said makes no sense since most classes can do what you said besides portal. If you're ONLY relying on rapid fire as a ranger to deal damage, learn to play. Oh btw, rapid fire follows targets in stealth so, you know, that one doesn't count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraitan.8476 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Beside the balance side of it, mesmers are just incredibly annoying to fight. The amount of evades/invulns/ports/stealths/blinds/blocks they got on each and every ability makes it just such bad & boring combat compared to fighting any other class. Because it is also poorly balanced, it doesnt require much skill to be effective on it therefore many people starting playing it which magnified the problem and now everyone is aware & complaining. Except the devs who usually need 6-9 months to catch up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaShi.1368 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 I find rangers far more annoying to fight with their many interrupts, stealth, evades, and high damage (plus more from pets). And their insane healing. If you don't get your burst perfectly on them, you're dead. Also, they aren't even fun to have in your groups in PvE. They still knock back everything on cool down without a care to the rest of the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kako.1930 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"DaShi.1368" said: > I find rangers far more annoying to fight with their many interrupts, stealth, evades, and high damage (plus more from pets). And their insane healing. If you don't get your burst perfectly on them, you're dead. Also, they aren't even fun to have in your groups in PvE. They still knock back everything on cool down without a care to the rest of the team. In pve, I agree 100%. Nothing is more annoying than setting up an aoe combo as an ele and having a ranger knock the target out of the aoes lol. They seem to love spamming it off cooldown for some reason too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"phokus.8934" said: > The only problem with Mirage is Elusive Mind. It's the lies that people say about "all these evades, blocks, invulns, 100-0" nonsense that doesn't leave much for conversation. They put Chrono and Mirage into one bucket and let frustration type rather than sensibility. This. Mirage is by no means fair as it stands. Its playstyle is annoying and focuses on disorienting the player. That would be fine if they also were not able to ignore CC that DOES hit them by merely dodging. The exhaustion tacked on to their trait is a token gesture and does nothing, because energy sigils and rune of Adventure refill endurance even if exhaustion is active. It is fine for a class to be a high damage, target-diverting/stealthing/annoying duelist or a stun ignoring tank, but you cannot give both of these to any spec at the same time. If your class does high damage or high dots, it needs to be susceptible to lockdown. If it is not susceptible to lockdown, it needs to do low damage or have moves be heavily telegraphed. There's no excuse for Mirages being able to inflict stuns on other players that are more visible and more targetable, then not be susceptible to those same stuns being applied to them, even on top of the fact that they can force you to retarget or detarget at their leisure. for all of that offensive pressure, mesmers need to be glass-fragile against interrupts and hard cc. Giving them a free pass to just dodge out of a setup that managed to snag them when they have blinks, distortion, portals, stealth, retargets, blinds on shatter and etc is disingenuous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletonman.5348 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"Bigbosos.2063" said: > > @"skeletonman.5348" said: > > > @"phokus.8934" said: > > > > @"Bigbosos.2063" said: > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > > - too much reflect uptime that effectively shutdown ranged spikes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wat. You mean a maximum of 4 seconds Distortion every 42.5 seconds that makes it a big fat 9.4% reflection uptime at best and a 2.3% reflection uptime at worse? > > > > Last time I checked, rapid fire was on a 10 seconds CD, plenty of time to have it not be reflected. > > > > > > > > Get a clue please. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly this. The nonsense posted by @"Arheundel.6451" is what I'm referring to. > > > > rapid fire can be interrupted > > dodged > > blocked > > distorted > > LOS'ed > > you can portal, blink away or just stealth around before he casts it > > > > while you are dodging rapid fire the mesmer can burst the ranger. > > > > distortion is only one of many ascpets that make mesmers so strong. im more worried about other stuff like elusive mind tho. > > > > but honestly, being untouchable 9.4% of the entire time is dumb. > > because on top you can add like what? 10% of the time your doding > > 10% of the time ur in stealth > > 30% of the time u los > > when playing chrono ull also have tons of blocks covering like 10% of the time > > > > on top of that u spam clones and blink all over the places and if u ever happen to lose a fight, portal away :) > > > > pls, stop ur nonsense with the rapid fire CD. ur insane. > > You said "too much reflect uptime". I just proved you wrong. Everything else you said makes no sense since most classes can do what you said besides portal. If you're ONLY relying on rapid fire as a ranger to deal damage, learn to play. Oh btw, rapid fire follows targets in stealth so, you know, that one doesn't count. learn to read. i said you can stealth around before he casts it. i said BEFORE. either way, discussing with a mirage that loses to a pew pew ranger is worthless because bronze player do not represent the majority of the pvp community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 A spec that can't be punished with defeat for being played by the worse player in a matchup is a broken spec. Elusive Mind is just one part of a broken mechanic. The core problem is the Mirage dodge mechanic itself. Every skill that evades while dealing damage is problematic. Power Shiro has been nerfed hard in the past because it could (and still can, but with less impact in pvp) burst in a sequence of almost 100% invulnerability (evade). D/D Condi Daredevil is problematic too and only held in line because trailblazer is not selectable in pvp. So it leaves a small window for cc and counterburst. But Mirage is the full package. Its evades are not skillbound. It can evade while attacking, stomping... everything. So it's trivial that decent players will abuse this to ridiculous extents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbosos.2063 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 > @"skeletonman.5348" said: > > @"Bigbosos.2063" said: > > > @"skeletonman.5348" said: > > > > @"phokus.8934" said: > > > > > @"Bigbosos.2063" said: > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > > > > - too much reflect uptime that effectively shutdown ranged spikes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wat. You mean a maximum of 4 seconds Distortion every 42.5 seconds that makes it a big fat 9.4% reflection uptime at best and a 2.3% reflection uptime at worse? > > > > > Last time I checked, rapid fire was on a 10 seconds CD, plenty of time to have it not be reflected. > > > > > > > > > > Get a clue please. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly this. The nonsense posted by @"Arheundel.6451" is what I'm referring to. > > > > > > rapid fire can be interrupted > > > dodged > > > blocked > > > distorted > > > LOS'ed > > > you can portal, blink away or just stealth around before he casts it > > > > > > while you are dodging rapid fire the mesmer can burst the ranger. > > > > > > distortion is only one of many ascpets that make mesmers so strong. im more worried about other stuff like elusive mind tho. > > > > > > but honestly, being untouchable 9.4% of the entire time is dumb. > > > because on top you can add like what? 10% of the time your doding > > > 10% of the time ur in stealth > > > 30% of the time u los > > > when playing chrono ull also have tons of blocks covering like 10% of the time > > > > > > on top of that u spam clones and blink all over the places and if u ever happen to lose a fight, portal away :) > > > > > > pls, stop ur nonsense with the rapid fire CD. ur insane. > > > > You said "too much reflect uptime". I just proved you wrong. Everything else you said makes no sense since most classes can do what you said besides portal. If you're ONLY relying on rapid fire as a ranger to deal damage, learn to play. Oh btw, rapid fire follows targets in stealth so, you know, that one doesn't count. > > learn to read. i said you can stealth around before he casts it. i said BEFORE. > > either way, discussing with a mirage that loses to a pew pew ranger is worthless because bronze player do not represent the majority of the pvp community. Who said I lose to ranger pewpew? I'm top 200 last season btw. You're always flipping my words to make it seem like you're in the right. You're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wichidi.9281 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 > @"Bigbosos.2063" said: > > @"skeletonman.5348" said: > > > @"Bigbosos.2063" said: > > > > @"skeletonman.5348" said: > > > > > @"phokus.8934" said: > > > > > > @"Bigbosos.2063" said: > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > - too much reflect uptime that effectively shutdown ranged spikes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wat. You mean a maximum of 4 seconds Distortion every 42.5 seconds that makes it a big fat 9.4% reflection uptime at best and a 2.3% reflection uptime at worse? > > > > > > Last time I checked, rapid fire was on a 10 seconds CD, plenty of time to have it not be reflected. > > > > > > > > > > > > Get a clue please. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly this. The nonsense posted by @"Arheundel.6451" is what I'm referring to. > > > > > > > > rapid fire can be interrupted > > > > dodged > > > > blocked > > > > distorted > > > > LOS'ed > > > > you can portal, blink away or just stealth around before he casts it > > > > > > > > while you are dodging rapid fire the mesmer can burst the ranger. > > > > > > > > distortion is only one of many ascpets that make mesmers so strong. im more worried about other stuff like elusive mind tho. > > > > > > > > but honestly, being untouchable 9.4% of the entire time is dumb. > > > > because on top you can add like what? 10% of the time your doding > > > > 10% of the time ur in stealth > > > > 30% of the time u los > > > > when playing chrono ull also have tons of blocks covering like 10% of the time > > > > > > > > on top of that u spam clones and blink all over the places and if u ever happen to lose a fight, portal away :) > > > > > > > > pls, stop ur nonsense with the rapid fire CD. ur insane. > > > > > > You said "too much reflect uptime". I just proved you wrong. Everything else you said makes no sense since most classes can do what you said besides portal. If you're ONLY relying on rapid fire as a ranger to deal damage, learn to play. Oh btw, rapid fire follows targets in stealth so, you know, that one doesn't count. > > > > learn to read. i said you can stealth around before he casts it. i said BEFORE. > > > > either way, discussing with a mirage that loses to a pew pew ranger is worthless because bronze player do not represent the majority of the pvp community. > > Who said I lose to ranger pewpew? I'm top 200 last season btw. You're always flipping my words to make it seem like you're in the right. You're not. Cuz top 200 in s11 means something LUL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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