New playable race & new weapon types limitation talk

[joneirikb.7506]

To take another angle on this (which probably have been suggested before somewhere), one option is to do something similar to the "Elite Spez" for classes, and make variant races of the existing ones. That would allow them to reuse most of the material, while (possibly) still make variations.

 

The main argument I see against this, is honestly that in that case you might as well just make all the resources and make it available to the race in the first place: Example if they make a bunch of new beards for human males for this new variant-human, why not just put all those beards in with human in general, and let players make their own styles if they wish?

 

---

 

On the whole, I think it would be more reasonable to look at cosmetic effects, like the Kodan Tonic, or variations of such for most new race needs, if you're going to "limit" the race. I can't imagine many happy posts if they added an "inferior" race to the game. :(

[Alga.6498]

After seeing two of the most requested professions to be added to the game, became mobs/enemies in the new Living World episode 1, Paragon and Dervish, had their own unique weapons (_land-spear and scythe_), skills and abilities and weapon animations.

 

We have also seen an upgraded and updated version of the Tengu in HoT expansion, Quetzal, a tribe of Tengus rather the old models we can see in Vanilla, (_the blue and red Tengu_)

 

I simply don't see why they can't add a new race or a new weapon mechanism, based on the enemies style they did pretty well for that. So why not to make it playable for us aswell? So many players has been requested those two things to be real. I am just hoping it will in our next expansion.

[derd.6413]

> @"Alga.6498" said:

> After seeing two of the most requested professions to be added to the game, became mobs/enemies in the new Living World episode 1, Paragon and Dervish, had their own unique weapons (_land-spear and scythe_), skills and abilities and weapon animations.

>

> We have also seen an upgraded and updated version of the Tengu in HoT expansion, Quetzal, a tribe of Tengus rather the old models we can see in Vanilla, (_the blue and red Tengu_)

>

> I simply don't see why they can't add a new race or a new weapon mechanism, based on the enemies style they did pretty well for that. So why not to make it playable for us aswell? So many players has been requested those two things to be real. I am just hoping it will in our next expansion.

 

because there goes more into these things then models and animations (also pretty sure scythe dervish uses daredevil staff animations)

[Alga.6498]

> @"derd.6413" said:

> > @"Alga.6498" said:

> > After seeing two of the most requested professions to be added to the game, became mobs/enemies in the new Living World episode 1, Paragon and Dervish, had their own unique weapons (_land-spear and scythe_), skills and abilities and weapon animations.

> >

> > We have also seen an upgraded and updated version of the Tengu in HoT expansion, Quetzal, a tribe of Tengus rather the old models we can see in Vanilla, (_the blue and red Tengu_)

> >

> > I simply don't see why they can't add a new race or a new weapon mechanism, based on the enemies style they did pretty well for that. So why not to make it playable for us aswell? So many players has been requested those two things to be real. I am just hoping it will in our next expansion.

>

> because there goes more into these things then models and animations (also pretty sure scythe dervish uses daredevil staff animations)

 

Greatsword Guardian actually.

 

But my point is that they can create those other things then models and animations if they really want.

[derd.6413]

> @"Alga.6498" said:

> > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > @"Alga.6498" said:

> > > After seeing two of the most requested professions to be added to the game, became mobs/enemies in the new Living World episode 1, Paragon and Dervish, had their own unique weapons (_land-spear and scythe_), skills and abilities and weapon animations.

> > >

> > > We have also seen an upgraded and updated version of the Tengu in HoT expansion, Quetzal, a tribe of Tengus rather the old models we can see in Vanilla, (_the blue and red Tengu_)

> > >

> > > I simply don't see why they can't add a new race or a new weapon mechanism, based on the enemies style they did pretty well for that. So why not to make it playable for us aswell? So many players has been requested those two things to be real. I am just hoping it will in our next expansion.

> >

> > because there goes more into these things then models and animations (also pretty sure scythe dervish uses daredevil staff animations)

>

> Greatsword Guardian actually.

>

> But my point is that they can create those other things then models and animations if they really want.

 

a new race and a new enemy model are vastly different in the amount of work required. a playable race needs a lot more model work to allow customization (enmies need 2 or 3 models), needs to be compatible with most armor skins (enemies need between 3 and 0), needs the animation of all classes and weapons (enemies need like half a class usually with only 2 to 3 weapons), emotes and alot more voice acting. (of the top of my head) there's probably a few things i forgot

 

alot of the mechanics of paragon and dervish have been worked into the classes we already have (the only thing they do we don't have on our classes is land spears but that comes with the issue of adding a new weapon) and their themes and lore don't make sense on anything but humans and it's pretty obvious anet doesn't want race specific classes.

 

you highly underestimate the difference between what a player wants and what an npc needs.

[Leo G.4501]

> @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> On the whole, I think it would be more reasonable to look at cosmetic effects, like the Kodan Tonic, or variations of such for most new race needs, if you're going to "limit" the race. I can't imagine many happy posts if they added an "inferior" race to the game. :(

 

I would ask you to further differentiate the tonic effect from an additional inferior race but I already know the answer, I just don't understand why you don't understand the difference.

 

I'll paint the picture of my thought process here: So you see it as reasonable to look for battle tonic effects like the Kodan Tonic as an avenue to quell this desire for more races but feel that is *better* to do than adding an "inferior" race that can only wear the outfits and perhaps a few cultural outfits plus have voice acting and a personal story? No need to point out it would likely use variations of animations because a tonic likely does too but I cannot fathom why you would consider the former better than the latter in any conceivable way besides it requiring less time and work...but time and work (on your part) has no baring on if the finished product (not the process to produce it) is better. So can you explain how your reasoning makes sense to me?

 

 

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > In other news: what reason is there to propose a minimalist race concept if not to bypass the feasibility issues inherent to a new race? By even considering accepting less from a race, are we not already buying into the feasibility limitations that have been amply discussed elsewhere?

>

> That goes without saying. Every addition proposal has feasibility limitations which is why many things that players desire we don't have yet. It's the very same chopping block your armor sets rest on but you consistently see posters requesting more and for outfits to be transformed into armor pieces despite the feasibility being capped by the limitations of how armor is created and maintained.

 

That goes without saying, also. ;)

 

I notice you cropped my opinion as to the actual topic, instead focusing on discussing feasibility from a different angle. Was that because once someone has stated their opinion _as their opinion_, there is little or nothing to discuss? Maybe, just maybe, people discuss the feasibility of others' ideas because that's all there is to debate?

 

Would you accept this approach to a new race or not? might as well be a poll. No, wait, check that thought. I'd rather the OP's approach to polling than the biased phrasing on most of the polls put out.

[Solori.6025]

Please remember, this is the same company that can't make Armor pieces because it's too much work...

And you want them to make a whole new race and class????

 

..

 

Am I the only one who see's what's wrong here?

[joneirikb.7506]

> @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> > On the whole, I think it would be more reasonable to look at cosmetic effects, like the Kodan Tonic, or variations of such for most new race needs, if you're going to "limit" the race. I can't imagine many happy posts if they added an "inferior" race to the game. :(

>

> I would ask you to further differentiate the tonic effect from an additional inferior race but I already know the answer, I just don't understand why you don't understand the difference.

>

> I'll paint the picture of my thought process here: So you see it as reasonable to look for battle tonic effects like the Kodan Tonic as an avenue to quell this desire for more races but feel that is *better* to do than adding an "inferior" race that can only wear the outfits and perhaps a few cultural outfits plus have voice acting and a personal story? No need to point out it would likely use variations of animations because a tonic likely does too but I cannot fathom why you would consider the former better than the latter in any conceivable way besides it requiring less time and work...but time and work (on your part) has no baring on if the finished product (not the process to produce it) is better. So can you explain how your reasoning makes sense to me?

>

>

 

TLDR: Massive wall of text, read at own risk. I recommend to skip ahead to next post.

 

---

 

In my opinion: If ANet decided to make a new race (the whole mile, everything the existing races have) I would like that. I might or might not play it, but I think it would be a nice thing to add to the game. All over I'm slightly for it, it just isn't very important for me.

 

GW2 have some of the best races I've seen in an MMO game, and better than most single-player cRPG's as well, and a good part of that is the amount of detail they've put into each race. From backgrounds, to style, voice acting, settings, cities, art styles, and armors/weapons etc. They all feel different in almost every way. (Until players get a hold of them and tries to make "fashion" that is...)

 

And simply put, if they add another race, I believe most players to expect that new race to at least match (if not exceed) the existing races in most aspects. Because that is how most players typically think "The expansion pack comes with new stuff, so it must be better!".

 

So building for less, is very likely to build disappointment among the user-base (Remember that the great majority of users doesn't look at the forum, so wouldn't know "why", and just buy the expansion, and not get what they expected).

 

*insert standard comments on how I don't think it is cost efficient or economically viable to go all the way building a race here*

 

---

 

So while I think your idea of a "limited race" is BETTER than the idea of using tonics etc (like I suggested), I also think it would be met with a huge amount of negativity because of false expectations from the user-base in general.

 

At the same time, expanding slightly on the combat tonic idea have a much bigger chance of appearing as "expanding on something cool" and be met with positive feedback. Even if the end result is inferior to the other alternative.

 

*Insert another random comment at the potential cost efficiency of going combat tonic way instead*

 

---

 

> but I cannot fathom why you would consider the former better than the latter in any conceivable way besides it requiring less time and work...but time and work (on your part) has no baring on if the finished product (not the process to produce it) is better. So can you explain how your reasoning makes sense to me?

 

Because even if the "time + work" doesn't affect me, the end result does. And if they spend 20 hours on making some combat tonics, or 100 hours on making a lesser race, that is 80 hours they didn't spend on something else I might care more about.

 

Also earlier comment that i think it would be bad if they spent 100 hours on making something I think would be poorly received for not living up to peoples (likely misplaced) hype and expectations.

 

---

 

Idea: 1

 

That being said, here is an example of what I mean with "expanding" the "kodan tonic" thing:

 

Instead of using tonics, it could be made into costumes/outfits, that could override your basic skeleton (like the tonics does). But would allow you to dye/color, and use all the existing weapons and such.

 

For example, a Kodan Outfit that would let you dye the clothes (and pelt), that could use the norn skeleton (for dances, movement, stowing weapons unlike the kodan tonic etc).

 

They could even release multiple variants with different armors, or just change it so the armor changes depending on your class (heavy, medium, light).

 

I don't think it would be anywhere near as great as a whole new race, but it would be better than nothing, and a way to get many different "race" looks into the game, eventually. (No idea if they could link voices to the outfits, would probably get annoying anyways).

 

---

 

Idea: 2

 

On the other hand, I do think that ANet possibly could pull it off, if they focus an entire expansion pack around a new race.

 

Building a new city for them, building them into the entire expansion story, probably replace the entire "personal story" part with a own race story more in the style of LS than personal story (something similar to what they did with Worgen in WoW). And just take the massive cost of voice acting and basically making a gazillion of new armors to fit into the existing armor skins for the race. It would cost a lot, but I think an entire expansion pack around it, could work.

 

It would probably mean there would be less other things (like skins, since they would have to spend a LOT of time making all new skins for a new race), but at the same time they can't skip everything, if they don't add an Elite Spez for example, then there is no reason for the PVP/WVW players to buy it for example. So it's a tight-rope, but I do believe they could pull it off.

 

---

 

That's long enough...

[Thornwolf.9721]

To be fair guild wars 2 is not even in the lime light, the only reason it has gotten a sudden resurgence of popularity is because of blessed flopping. I can't see the next expansion being worth crap ( Especially after PoF which really did nothing for me personally, I don't have any faith in the dev's at this point but stick around for my guild and because I love this game.) You have to ask the question, "What will out-shine mounts as a new feature?"

 

That is a new race, simple as that and at this point since they caved and gave us mounts they can cave and do other things of similar value and reward. They have already said in one of their new videos that the voice thing is NOT a big deal or hard to do and they can have people voice multiple characters. Who is to say that they dont have current voice actors who have not filled their three roles in their contract? Tengu were planned to be added in HoT but they didn't do it so that everyone wouldn't be making tengu rev's. So they held off to do it at a later date, Now is the time to do so especially with WoW capitalizing on new races I mean how are they going to compete with their rivals at this point?

 

Mounts? A feature other games have at launch, that was with-held for the sake of it not being needed, only to be sold back to us as the main force leading an expansion might I remind you an expansion WITH NOTHING to do outside of the story. With minimal rewards, ugly armor skins and a craptastic story that I could of done without and have not bothered with since. So since those maps are less played in that the HoT maps those maps are considerably more of a loss than a gain yess? No legendaries tied to them, nothing to collect and no reason to go back... hmm. Perhaps they should just NOT make new maps and continue to tie all the old stuff to the HoT maps as is the usual with new legendary weps hmm? I mean if hardly anyone play in the new maps tied to the actual expansion (Dont count the living story) Then whats the point? Its the same argument you have made about the new race Idea. It fits into every aspect of the game "If hardly anyone will play it because I dont like it, dont want it and dont agree with it then obviously its a waste of time." <==== everyone against new races.

[Leo G.4501]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > > In other news: what reason is there to propose a minimalist race concept if not to bypass the feasibility issues inherent to a new race? By even considering accepting less from a race, are we not already buying into the feasibility limitations that have been amply discussed elsewhere?

> >

> > That goes without saying. Every addition proposal has feasibility limitations which is why many things that players desire we don't have yet. It's the very same chopping block your armor sets rest on but you consistently see posters requesting more and for outfits to be transformed into armor pieces despite the feasibility being capped by the limitations of how armor is created and maintained.

>

> That goes without saying, also. ;)

>

> I notice you cropped my opinion as to the actual topic, instead focusing on discussing feasibility from a different angle. Was that because once someone has stated their opinion _as their opinion_, there is little or nothing to discuss? Maybe, just maybe, people discuss the feasibility of others' ideas because that's all there is to debate?

>

> Would you accept this approach to a new race or not? might as well be a poll. No, wait, check that thought. I'd rather the OP's approach to polling than the biased phrasing on most of the polls put out.

 

Well the purpose of the saying (the "goes without saying") is that such an observation is obvious. I replied to it as someone participating in a discussion would want to have their points discussed regardless (I'm assuming. Or would you rather I have not replied to you at all?).

 

As for cropping your opinion, it was because I have no objection to your opinion. You desire something I don't want and I desire something you don't want. There's no reason to press that any further. I choose to focus on the more objective portion which is pointing out that seeking to bypass limitations to make something more feasible is acknowledging that the feasibility of new races is low. We all acknowledge this.

 

And would I accept your approach for a new race (literally something new and not the current unavailable races)? It would depend. I wouldn't object to such a thing but I personally would like to finally make my Tengu Necromancer that I have drawn up.

[Leo G.4501]

> @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> That's long enough...

 

I will admit that wasn't the answer I was expecting but it was a consideration I have considered (player reception and all). None the less, I appreciate the clarification.

 

Expanding on tonics, from my personal point of view, is less optimal only because I've literally cared nothing for tonics. Ever. But that only leaves room for improvement can could be something that could indeed be a solution if they improve and expand the tonic system.

 

As for new races as a whole, I think more rationality on the part of the consumer isn't an unreasonable expectation. You're not wrong in thinking that the playerbase, in part, would respond to a minimalist race addition to the game but would it really cause a backlash if it doesn't detract but only add to the game? IMO, it's similar to the people who complained that the basic mounts in PoF had 1 dye channel and they had to spend money to get better looks. That didn't stop the mount system from being considered one of the better implementations of mounts in an MMORPG by practically everyone. That Anet puts as much effort into their races is why I'd hope they'd expand on that, because its a strength of the game...but instead we're relentlessly given bulky, flashing, animated armor and weapons to further mask the great work they put into the individuality of those races.

 

I think another missed opportunity could have been having some of the protaganists that accompany the main character could have been something a bit more diverse than just reskinned player characters. They could have had a bizarre skritt with a mutant brain that got dumber with more skritt around instead of smarter being the one in Taimie's place or anything but a pair of humans...

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Dantert.1803" said:

> Hello everyone,

>

> I was talking with a friend of mine about the good ol' topic of having a new playable race and weapon types in Gw2.

> I think that it would be possible to have them if they are not retroactive, what I mean by that is that you get a new race but it starts with a few armors (and obviously all outfits) and has no access to the old armor sets. Same with the weapons, you get a new weapon type but that weapon type doesn't get added to the older sets.

> This would mean a lot less work on the character/weapon team, less problems with armor clipping and so on.

> Also this topic wuld be applied to the base story. Not being able to play the Gw2 vanilla and expansions that came before the release of the race or being able to play them but with just a few tweaks to justify the introduction of a new race.

>

> My question is, would you be fine with this?

> Personally I would be totally fine with those limitations.

> I'm just saying this if we ever get new races or weapons I'm not saying that we will get them. I heard already the people that think that they prefer not to have a new race or that they think it's too much work for arenanet, thia is not the point of this post, so if that is your reply you can save yourself some time and avoid this thread :D

 

I agree completely. If I didn't, I would have avoided this thread.

[Dantert.1803]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > @"Dantert.1803" said:

> > Hello everyone,

> >

> > I was talking with a friend of mine about the good ol' topic of having a new playable race and weapon types in Gw2.

> > I think that it would be possible to have them if they are not retroactive, what I mean by that is that you get a new race but it starts with a few armors (and obviously all outfits) and has no access to the old armor sets. Same with the weapons, you get a new weapon type but that weapon type doesn't get added to the older sets.

> > This would mean a lot less work on the character/weapon team, less problems with armor clipping and so on.

> > Also this topic wuld be applied to the base story. Not being able to play the Gw2 vanilla and expansions that came before the release of the race or being able to play them but with just a few tweaks to justify the introduction of a new race.

> >

> > My question is, would you be fine with this?

> > Personally I would be totally fine with those limitations.

> > I'm just saying this if we ever get new races or weapons I'm not saying that we will get them. I heard already the people that think that they prefer not to have a new race or that they think it's too much work for arenanet, thia is not the point of this post, so if that is your reply you can save yourself some time and avoid this thread :D

>

> I agree completely. If I didn't, I would have avoided this thread.

 

well it's clear that most of the people being sarcastic didn't get the point of what I was saying.

I'm fine with people that disagree with me, I'm fine if people think that Anet should not add another race. This is not the topic of the conversation here, the topic is how much can be cut from a content like a new race to be acceptable and if something like that is even worth it.

 

[Rasimir.6239]

> @"Dantert.1803" said:

> the topic is how much can be cut from a content like a new race to be acceptable and if something like that is even worth it.

Personally , I play different races because of different visuals and sounds, different customization options (skins can look way different on my asura than they do on my norn), different story and background. If any (or worse, all) of this would be cut from a new race, as in no race-specific story and background, no mix-and-match armor, no race-specific visuals and sounds, then that race would rub me wrong.

 

Even if I don't play it myself I'll end up being "treated" to characters of the new race everywhere I play with or alongside other players, and would have to live with seeing minimum skin variety, hearingborrowed voices or whatever other suggested cut would come into play.

 

Now if ANet on the other hand would pour the resources needed for a new, restricted race into greater variety to choose from with existing races (new, radically different faces, hairstyles, bodytypes, colours, possibly even voices), that would be right up my alley. That way I could create new characters that look and feel different from the ones I already have without being restricted in areas I've come to enjoy as strong points of this game.

 

One thing I don't understand: why would you want a new race if you restrict its visuals, story, or any of the other cuts suggested? What is it that will give you the feeling of getting something new and worthwhile?

[derd.6413]

> @"Rasimir.6239" said:

> > @"Dantert.1803" said:

> > the topic is how much can be cut from a content like a new race to be acceptable and if something like that is even worth it.

> Personally , I play different races because of different visuals and sounds, different customization options (skins can look way different on my asura than they do on my norn), different story and background. If any (or worse, all) of this would be cut from a new race, as in no race-specific story and background, no mix-and-match armor, no race-specific visuals and sounds, then that race would rub me wrong.

>

> Even if I don't play it myself I'll end up being "treated" to characters of the new race everywhere I play with or alongside other players, and would have to live with seeing minimum skin variety, hearingborrowed voices or whatever other suggested cut would come into play.

>

> Now if ANet on the other hand would pour the resources needed for a new, restricted race into greater variety to choose from with existing races (new, radically different faces, hairstyles, bodytypes, colours, possibly even voices), that would be right up my alley. That way I could create new characters that look and feel different from the ones I already have without being restricted in areas I've come to enjoy as strong points of this game.

>

> One thing I don't understand: why would you want a new race if you restrict its visuals, story, or any of the other cuts suggested? What is it that will give you the feeling of getting something new and worthwhile?

 

As for restricted story: it would make more sense.

If they didn't they would need to retcon things go make a new race make sense. (Why did the tengu shoot at their own during the breachmaker attack? Why would trahearn need to keep co-operation with the largos a secret if the commander is one? Etc.) A better aproache would be to not allow a new race to play previous xpac/core story and instead give a smaller story on how the race joined the dragon wars + how we joined dragons watch. The only thing they would need to say in that situation would be that their previous accomplishments where done without the commander / the commander died. which would be easier to swallow since the commander is a nebulous entity already.

Plus asking a voice actor to record a couple of years worth of dialouge in a small time frame would just be unreasonable

[MarshallLaw.9260]

> @"Dantert.1803" said:

> I think that it would be possible to have them if they are not retroactive, what I mean by that is that you get a new race but it starts with a few armors (and obviously all outfits) and has no access to the old armor sets.

That is a _huge_ limitation. There are currently aprox 54 armor sets per weight class not including individual pieces (rough count from wiki).

Consider how ANet would have to sell it - "Play as the [insert race here], but you wont be able to wear 90% of the items all the other races have"

How would this work for loot? A player can pick up a large quantity of gear but due to their race, be unable to use it.

> Same with the weapons, you get a new weapon type but that weapon type doesn't get added to the older sets.

This is a different beast. There was another discussion regarding this.

The way I see it is that we can get 1 new weapon for all 9 classes (e.g. land spear) but then it's the most common weapon, everyone has it, doesn't feel slightly unique or exclusive- probably not a good route to go down. Alternatively, we have 3 new weapons (1 per weight class for example or 1 per 3 random proffs) or 1 step further, each prof gets a new equip.

This gets more complicated. Even considering 1 new weapon - all loot tables would need to be updated to accommodate any new equipment. That's an enormous task.

I think there is a possibility to have this for a future expansion but it wouldn't be easy.

Perhaps you could get around the loot issue if each class were to get 1 wep and 1 crafting mentor/vendor/trainer which could offer different versions of this 1 weapon for loot, quests, currency from different sources.

For example - let's say warrior was given a 2H axe. Warrior players can now speak to their "new class" mentor who will offer 2H axes for completing quests all over Tyria(& beyond) and depending on what quest, will determine which axe you can purchase. Let's say you went on a quest in the Shiverpeaks - upon completion, you return to your trainer and now can access the Frost-themed axe. Quests can be like bounties, collections or events. Maybe throw in some crafting options.

This way we would actually bypass the "needs to be on every loot table" issue but how the playersbase would feel about it is unknown.

 

> Also this topic wuld be applied to the base story. Not being able to play the Gw2 vanilla and expansions that came before the release of the race or being able to play them but with just a few tweaks to justify the introduction of a new race.

> My question is, would you be fine with this?

No. Playing as this new proposed race would (for me) feel **incomplete**. You would never be able to have the _full_ story, and never have the _full_ choice of gear (skins). Literally second-class citizen.

 

> I'm just saying this if we ever get new races or weapons I'm not saying that we will get them. I heard already the people that think that they prefer not to have a new race or that they think it's too much work for arenanet, thia is not the point of this post, so if that is your reply you can save yourself some time and avoid this thread :D

 

Overall, I would much rather resources were put into a good, solid story for all existing races, instance content, events, maps, balancing, PvP modes. Enhance, expand and develop the content we have rather than trying to bolt on a half-cooked addition.

 

[lokh.2695]

> @"Dantert.1803" said:

> > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > >I'm just saying this if we ever get new races or weapons I'm not saying that we will get them. I heard already the people that think that they prefer not to have a new race or that they think it's too much work for arenanet, thia is not the point of this post, so if that is your reply you can save yourself some time and avoid this thread :D

> >

> > If you only want people who agree with you to post then it’s not a discussion but a mutual congratulation society.

>

> I want the conversation to be focused on the topic, that is would you be fine with it or not, pros and cons not hearing the same old answers.

 

Why ask the same old questions then?

[Leo G.4501]

> @"Rasimir.6239" said:

> Even if I don't play it myself I'll end up being "treated" to characters of the new race everywhere I play with or alongside other players, and would have to live with seeing minimum skin variety, hearingborrowed voices or whatever other suggested cut would come into play.

 

Meh, not all that different from currently having your screen and graphics card assaulted by the layers upon layers of brightly colored glowie particle FX, auras, flashy wings/mounts, etc. Unless that is your thing, a race that might be missing some of that is no more an affont on anyone than a subset of people that choose to only wear basic armor or only use battle tonics.

 

 

> @"Rasimir.6239" said:

> Now if ANet on the other hand would pour the resources needed for a new, restricted race into greater variety to choose from with existing races (new, radically different faces, hairstyles, bodytypes, colours, possibly even voices), that would be right up my alley. That way I could create new characters that look and feel different from the ones I already have without being restricted in areas I've come to enjoy as strong points of this game.

 

Even if they were to do that, as above, so much of the game's aesthetic covers up a lot of the options that are distinct and customizable that can be noticed at a fairly close distance.

 

> @"Rasimir.6239" said:

> One thing I don't understand: why would you want a new race if you restrict its visuals, story, or any of the other cuts suggested? What is it that will give you the feeling of getting something new and worthwhile?

 

Personally? Because I think about 40% of the armor is gaudy garbage. If they were to cut most of the available armor for a new race to only specific distinct pieces (or just all together) and keep outfits (which I think about 20% is gaudy garbage, 40% is great looking and the other 40% is kinda meh but distinct enough to have a purpose to wear on certain occasions) I would be perfectly fine limiting the layered clothing for any new races because the game has nowhere to go but introduce more clothing options down the line anyway. To me, pouting that a new race wouldn't have everything all at once is like pouting that a restaurant doesn't bring your whole meal + dessert to your table at the same time they bring you your appetizers and free chips/salsa.

 

As for everything else, this thread isn't about restricting anything but visuals connected directly to customizability. Not voice. Not story. Just customizability.

[Ardid.7203]

For a new race, I would want it to have a proper personal story and a bunch of armor options.

However:

- I don't need the PS to link to Zaithan or the Pact at all. For me it could even be ok to connect to some point after PoF. I know it would create heavy discrepancies with the current story, but still, I don't need the new race PC to be "the" commander. (In fact, I would recommend Anet to somehow re-anonymize our main character. It would open so many alternatives and make for much better RP and Immersion in the game)

- Also, I don't need all the previous armor to be usable by the new race PC. I only need to have a good number of new ones to select and mix'n match. If they are well done, even 5 would be enough for the new race start.

[derd.6413]

> @"Ardid.7203" said:

> - I don't need the PS to link to Zaithan or the Pact at all. For me it could even be ok to connect to some point after PoF.

 

i think the best point to connect the personal story of a new race and the rest of LW would be the start of the xpac they got introduced with. personally i would make the later parts of the story (when your past the race specific story) should be something nebulous in time so it can be reused for future races (streamlining the process of adding new races)

 

 

[kharmin.7683]

tl;dr

Did I see mention of new races starting at level 80? I'm guessing that would be so that there would be no need for the personal story? I think that this would be more attractive to many players -- skipping to 80. Look at the number of players who have used the lvl80 booster already.

 

I'm not advocating for a new race in this or any other manner. Just pointing out that doing a new race like this might be more enticing than people expect.

 

/me shrugs

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

There's a presumption in the thread that ANet has not considered the idea of "budget races," i.e. ones that have limited access to skins, dialogue, stories, or other aspects that interest players. In fact, ANet has explicitly said they won't do it this way: if there's going to be a new race or a new profession, it will be done to their high standards, not some sort of minimalist effort that pays lip service to the concept.

 

Regardless of how the OP or others phrase it, a new race is an enormous amount of work. At best, we're discussing a reduction from "enormous" to "almost enormous." There's a huge list of mechanics that make up a new race and dropping a few of them won't reduce the cost enough to make up for the lost benefits. Drop too many and now we're not even looking at a new race in any sort of meaningful way.

 

 

[Dantert.1803]

Do you guys think that for arenanet to focus on expanding on the already existing races would be better than having a new race?

Like for example adding more content and more racial armor sets to each race and a rework and expansion of the racial skills to make them actually useful would be interesting enough?

[Leo G.4501]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> There's a presumption in the thread that ANet has not considered the idea of "budget races," i.e. ones that have limited access to skins, dialogue, stories, or other aspects that interest players. In fact, ANet has explicitly said they won't do it this way: if there's going to be a new race or a new profession, it will be done to their high standards, not some sort of minimalist effort that pays lip service to the concept.

>

> Regardless of how the OP or others phrase it, a new race is an enormous amount of work. At best, we're discussing a reduction from "enormous" to "almost enormous." There's a huge list of mechanics that make up a new race and dropping a few of them won't reduce the cost enough to make up for the lost benefits. Drop too many and now we're not even looking at a new race in any sort of meaningful way.

>

>

 

Well, for one, Anet never indicated to what extent or quality standard. AFAIK, the way they described it was doing it "right". Even if we're to assume right means all qualities that the current races have, that isn't indicative of the quanity. So your argument against a presumption is a presumption of what Anet consided their standard of quality while making a presumption of what "budget races" means.

 

I'm sure you're a decent communicator but if your goal is to sway those you're discussing with you should probably use an offensive argument against the suggestion rather than a defensive one. The ones that need to be making defensive arguments are those defending their investment or interests. Unless you're a shareholder in the company and have a vested interest in the return capital you get on your investment, what ground of the debate do you secure by cementing the portion of work and manhours involved at all? I mean, if your goal is to shift the dialog away from attacking the core idea toward your own presumptious argument, then sure, but why would you want to give up an offensive stance to take a defensive one?