How about implementing permanent no downstate?

[Gwaihir.1745]

> @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:

> > @"Gwaihir.1745" said:

> > Also people arguing that skilled groups basically = running a transfuse necro, what? There's literally FA guilds dedicated the ressing that run nomads theives and transfuse necros. Their spellbreakers can miss every burst and be the worst possible players but they wont get killed they'll get stealth insta ressed until they actually so something right. There's no skill involved in the current downstate.

> "There's no skill involved in this thing people build around strategically utilizing" I say with no sense of irony whatsoever.

 

Building around a gimmick doesn't necessitate skill? Breaking news at 11. I don't even know where to begin to poke holes in this logic since there are so many of them.

[Xenash.1245]

If you call people casuals or you name call them in some way or another, it's not really going to help bolster your argument in any shape or form towards others. I'm personally really not sure which way I learn but you should try to hold yourself with some respect when throwing your opinion out there.

 

Not saying this towards any one person really, just the thread in general in the hopes that it doesn't devolve into name calling.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

> @"The Game Slayer.7632" said:

>

> 1- Rats: When I'm in 1v4 situations, I'm easily able to get 1 or 2 downs. During the no downstate week, I was able to successfully get rewarded for my hard work put into being good at this game. With downstate, all of my hard work is constantly negated in outnumbered situations. (Which is the vast majority of situations.) I can get a down but if there are 3 people nearby when it happens, they can just walk over and press f. Coolbeans. Fun. Doesn't matter how good I am, in most situations I'm not rewarded. The weaker rats (newer players) get saved by downstate so incredibly often in these scenarios. If all you have for your veteran/skilled players is a constant game mechanic that prevents you from being rewarded most of the time, then there is no fun to be had.

>

> 2- Young veteran: I'm a competitive young person, but a veteran in gw2. Played since launch, but I'm about to turn 21 yrs old this summer.

>

> 3- Veterans in gw2: Look, one thing is clear. You need your veterans in a game in order to give newer players some direction. There is dire need of content creation for gw2 with regards to pvp/wvw. Every single successful game has this dialogue. Gw2 has lost that dialogue a long time ago. Here's my evidence (albeit not very strong) that veterans would stay and put effort into pvp again; I streamed for around 20 hours in a busy schedule during no downstate week. You could make the argument that I wouldn't stay for a couple months afterwards, but it's a very weak one. One thing is absolutely clear: people like to play games they find fun in. If, as a veteran, I found a lot of pleasure playing in this type of event, there's no reason to suggest that I wouldn't want to play it 'just because'.

>

> 4- competition: Look, the final point of my case really just comes down to this. I lean towards games that are more competitive. Gw2 has an opportunity to foster a more competitive pvp mode by radically changing one of the core mechanics. If they want to stay casual, that's fine. But I don't want to hear the argument that says that it's better for everyone if we keep downstate. (Not saying you're saying that.) It's better for veterans if you remove it, and if it's better for veterans and keeps them in the scene then that has a huge effect on the newer players who want to grow.

 

2 Okay. A literal usage of the word young.

 

1 , 3 , 4 Just going to ignore my rants about 1v1+X for sake of argument; It shouldn't be necessary for this point since those three things of yours are linked. If the content creation you are making is about 1v4 situations then how is that going to help new players? _Is teaching them to play solo beneficial to learning the whole game mode_? Or are you teaching them to play an over tuned build? (to be fair, a lot of "lower skilled" people played during that week so it might not be a game balance issue) The situation after all isn't about team work, but about the typical outnumbered situations you find yourself in. It's fine to be competitive. So, why did Spvp not satisfy this craving? It's logical to assume it'd be a better fit (I hate sitting on circles btw). Probably less running back and forth too.

 

And yes. No where did I say downstate is better for everyone. So far it only seems the most beneficial to duelists, and Commanders. What I do recall is a claim made by ANET (I think it was @"McKenna Berdrow.2759" , GL with the search function though!). Correct me if I am wrong. _They observed through their mysterious data is if no Commander Tag was present upon logging, then more people were correlated to log out because of the Commander's absence._ This means the game dies fasters and faster with less tags. Regardless if you're a roamer or blobber. Where am I going with this? Easy. Pin snipe (although honestly most pressure is on the pin anyway). Usually the veterans will adapt of course, and being vocally coordinated is even better. Any new ones not so much. During EU reset, pug blobs (or just clouds) became less threatening during that event because they'd get rolled over too easily. We didn't have to stop to clear downs. Downstate normally created opportunities to bomb if people balled up to res or to cleave. Because people don't seem to account for the whole game mode in their pursuit of no downstate it is hard for me to rationalize their reasons. I understand I cannot save everyone, but it is my impression that keeping it benefits the most amount of people if we're assuming ANET's mysterious data is correct. Interestingly ACs did cull people pretty well during this event...

[Mbelch.9028]

During no-downstate week (I play on JQ) I saw some random thieves with 1-shot builds, but they didn't do too much damage, and added very little to their server's score. Why do I keep hearing about 1-shot builds as a reason against no downstate when group play is usually what people in this section focus on?

 

The overwhelming majority of folks run in groups, making the few thieves who run high-powered builds inconsequential. Even roamers, though, know how to deal with those thieves.

 

As a whole, I saw more people having more fun during no-downstate than I have since like 2014. I saw some frustrated mindless-zerglings, but I saw the return of old commanders, I saw some intelligent and crafty new group play, and I captured some amazing footage of skilled 1v1-4 action.

 

At the end of the day, downed state supports superior numbers, and punishes, rather than rewards, skillful players. It made it so a group of 10 of my fellow small-man friends were able to fend off a group of 20-25 who were clearly not as organized as us, and we were able to move right along after.

 

I'm in support of no-downstate, and I believe it will increase the overall skill of the game if implemented full-time.

[LinhZeri.6412]

I think downstate should be removed and improve the revival skills to bring them back from full dead (of course making sure all have a cast time of 4-6 seconds since it would bring it back to being powerful. Also probably limits to the amount revived and how often with a death penalty to being revived again for a minute or something ).. without that its not a great idea. This would require some to slot in revive like the good ol days of Guild wars 1. Tactical revival is better than random tagging to get up randomly and rally like now. ..This would just support better game play overall and less button mashing.

 

This idea is something that should be made for all game modes just simple fact that it shouldn't be so casual to revive people who go down and instead attempt to protect your own team only supporting even more stale gameplay which would also shake up PVE im sure dramatically which is a good thing. (MY OPINION OF COURSE lol)

[The Game Slayer.7632]

> @"GDchiaScrub.3241" said:

> > @"The Game Slayer.7632" said:

> >

> > 1- Rats: When I'm in 1v4 situations, I'm easily able to get 1 or 2 downs. During the no downstate week, I was able to successfully get rewarded for my hard work put into being good at this game. With downstate, all of my hard work is constantly negated in outnumbered situations. (Which is the vast majority of situations.) I can get a down but if there are 3 people nearby when it happens, they can just walk over and press f. Coolbeans. Fun. Doesn't matter how good I am, in most situations I'm not rewarded. The weaker rats (newer players) get saved by downstate so incredibly often in these scenarios. If all you have for your veteran/skilled players is a constant game mechanic that prevents you from being rewarded most of the time, then there is no fun to be had.

> >

> > 2- Young veteran: I'm a competitive young person, but a veteran in gw2. Played since launch, but I'm about to turn 21 yrs old this summer.

> >

> > 3- Veterans in gw2: Look, one thing is clear. You need your veterans in a game in order to give newer players some direction. There is dire need of content creation for gw2 with regards to pvp/wvw. Every single successful game has this dialogue. Gw2 has lost that dialogue a long time ago. Here's my evidence (albeit not very strong) that veterans would stay and put effort into pvp again; I streamed for around 20 hours in a busy schedule during no downstate week. You could make the argument that I wouldn't stay for a couple months afterwards, but it's a very weak one. One thing is absolutely clear: people like to play games they find fun in. If, as a veteran, I found a lot of pleasure playing in this type of event, there's no reason to suggest that I wouldn't want to play it 'just because'.

> >

> > 4- competition: Look, the final point of my case really just comes down to this. I lean towards games that are more competitive. Gw2 has an opportunity to foster a more competitive pvp mode by radically changing one of the core mechanics. If they want to stay casual, that's fine. But I don't want to hear the argument that says that it's better for everyone if we keep downstate. (Not saying you're saying that.) It's better for veterans if you remove it, and if it's better for veterans and keeps them in the scene then that has a huge effect on the newer players who want to grow.

>

> 2 Okay. A literal usage of the word young.

>

> 1 , 3 , 4 Just going to ignore my rants about 1v1+X for sake of argument; It shouldn't be necessary for this point since those three things of yours are linked. If the content creation you are making is about 1v4 situations then how is that going to help new players? _Is teaching them to play solo beneficial to learning the whole game mode_? Or are you teaching them to play an over tuned build? (to be fair, a lot of "lower skilled" people played during that week so it might not be a game balance issue) The situation after all isn't about team work, but about the typical outnumbered situations you find yourself in. It's fine to be competitive. So, why did Spvp not satisfy this craving? It's logical to assume it'd be a better fit (I hate sitting on circles btw). Probably less running back and forth too.

>

> And yes. No where did I say downstate is better for everyone. So far it only seems the most beneficial to duelists, and Commanders. What I do recall is a claim made by ANET (I think it was @"McKenna Berdrow.2759" , GL with the search function though!). Correct me if I am wrong. _They observed through their mysterious data is if no Commander Tag was present upon logging, then more people were correlated to log out because of the Commander's absence._ This means the game dies fasters and faster with less tags. Regardless if you're a roamer or blobber. Where am I going with this? Easy. Pin snipe (although honestly most pressure is on the pin anyway). Usually the veterans will adapt of course, and being vocally coordinated is even better. Any new ones not so much. During EU reset, pug blobs (or just clouds) became less threatening during that event because they'd get rolled over too easily. We didn't have to stop to clear downs. Downstate normally created opportunities to bomb if people balled up to res or to cleave. Because people don't seem to account for the whole game mode in their pursuit of no downstate it is hard for me to rationalize their reasons. I understand I cannot save everyone, but it is my impression that keeping it benefits the most amount of people if we're assuming ANET's mysterious data is correct. Interestingly ACs did cull people pretty well during this event...

 

No, you're missing the point. **Here's the premise;** Many veteran player's loved no downstate. Many veteran players logged on for no downstate. Many veteran players are leaving in absence of no downstate. Which then leads to my other points of the veteran player absence problem.

 

I don't think that pin sniping is really even a big problem, or even was a big problem during no downstate. Good coordinated skill play should be rewarded. But to me that's irrelevant anyways.

 

Look, I want to be clear. I understand that I'm not taking into account the full game mode. I can't understand what it's like to be a zergling because I don't zerg. All I'm doing here is giving my perspective on why I'm not playing gw2 anymore. I'm a top tier pvp-er who used to regularly participate and win in tournaments. I went toe to toe vs world champions and gave them a run for their money. And I'm just telling you why I don't want to play anymore. This is an extremely common theme among us top skilled players. We're leaving at an alarming rate. I can't completely speak for all of us, but if you want me to keep playing gw2 then implementing no downstate or radically changing it is one way to keep me playing. And so be it. I'm not stressing over it too much, trust me. Gw2 is a great game, but it has serious flaws for veterans.

[Drastic.8920]

Personally, I'm in favor of no downstate. However, should majority of the player base want to keep, IMO it should be reworked (at least in WvW). Make it more punishable for being in a downstate in the first place. Too many necros running Transfusion along with MI Guardians that provide instant to near-instant rezzes. Have the health pool be 30% the first time around and 10% the 2nd time around and full dead the 3rd (within the current 1 minute stage markers). This way, transfusion and MI still have their placed but instant rezzes are not as common, forcing players to make tougher decisions whether they should rez or not.

[Schnuschnu.9857]

> @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> So thieves since 2012 with or without downstate being active?

 

Basicly yes, but it encourages it even more. And why thiefs have to play like this is a topic for another thread.

 

[Warlord.9074]

# **Why I am right and you are wrong.**

 

**Point 1**

If you are small and are getting zerged chances are you are going to die anyways because you are getting blobbed down by more numbers. Having either down state or no downstate makes zero difference.

 

**Point 2**

If you are a blob and have many more players than the enemy chances are you can res your allys becasue you have so many more tranny necros and guardians with MI and are large enough you can just w-key the smaller zerg and res your payers behind.

 

**Point 3**

If we assume both groups are equal skill level just one is 50 player and the other one is 20 players than point 1 and point 2 are 100% correct. Even if the 50 man zerg is lesser skill level probably point 1 and 2 are correct. However if your 50 man blob dies to 20 players I think you deserve to DIE as a group because that is unacceptable and should not happen..

 

**## Cons**

There is no animations to indicate a no down state player is killed. Should be re coded so that a animated flag displays a dead player.

Bad players can no longer be carried. Not sure if this is a con or a pro. IMO it's a pro but the vocal minority here probably think this is a con.

 

**Pros**

Better players have a better chance at fighting outnumbered vs larger zergs if the larger zergs are comprised mainly of bad players

Roamers have a better chance at fighting outnumbers If they out skill the enemy's.

 

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Warlord.9074" said:

> Bad players can no longer be carried. Not sure if this is a con or a pro. IMO it's a pro but the vocal minority here probably think this is a con.

 

Sure they can. I recently saw a condi mirage that could barely hit me. He tried. He failed. I didnt take any damage. The few condis I got I cleansed. Unfortunetly, he killed an ele next to me instead - which I easily ressed while taking no damage. We then killed him after a couple of minutes of him trying to repeatedly hide behind guards (his last ditch effort to burst me yeilded zero damage).

 

With no downed state that ele would have been killed by a pretty meh condi mirage. That's pretty much the definition of being carried.

 

Worst case scenario is that *two* bad players got carried.

 

Downed state isnt as simple as "only bad people die".

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

> @"The Game Slayer.7632" said:

>

> No, you're missing the point. **Here's the premise;** Many veteran player's loved no downstate. Many veteran players logged on for no downstate. Many veteran players are leaving in absence of no downstate. Which then leads to my other points of the veteran player absence problem.

>

> I don't think that pin sniping is really even a big problem, or even was a big problem during no downstate. Good coordinated skill play should be rewarded. But to me that's irrelevant anyways.

 

I don't think it's a problem for commanders that have already adapted (just bring a veil or stealth gyro...). I already briefly commented vocal coordination helped even more.

 

> Look, I want to be clear. I understand that I'm not taking into account the full game mode. I can't understand what it's like to be a zergling because I don't zerg. All I'm doing here is giving my perspective on why I'm not playing gw2 anymore. I'm a top tier pvp-er who used to regularly participate and win in tournaments. I went toe to toe vs world champions and gave them a run for their money. And I'm just telling you why I don't want to play anymore. This is an extremely common theme among us top skilled players. We're leaving at an alarming rate. I can't completely speak for all of us, but if you want me to keep playing gw2 then implementing no downstate or radically changing it is one way to keep me playing. And so be it. I'm not stressing over it too much, trust me. Gw2 is a great game, but it has serious flaws for veterans.

 

Good. _So why not ask ANET to alter the downstate in the actual competitive game mode (Spvp)?_ Wayeee back I already recognized WvW isn't designed to be overly competitive given 3 way teams, and 24/7 persistence. Trying to turn it into something its not at this point isn't going to help, but Spvp has a greater chance and it seems you already participated in it. Would altering downstate make you play Spvp again is probably the better question. I'd assume yes by your given response.

 

Since you gave your age, it makes sense. I too chased gaming highs when I was 16-21 (assuming age range of 5 years given this game is about that old). I'm not using high in a derogatory manner but meaning something that gives elation without being productive or long lasting. In my case, games of choice were Gunz: The Duel, Starcraft (the second one), and Super smash (Melee usually). All of which had stupid high APM's (Gunz being the worst offender). My casual game was another MMO (Everquest 2). **Given this, I still stand by that you should stick to your other games (or ask for Spvp changes)**. Being a MMO, Guild Wars 2 will have a casual mentality (if it wasn't already evident). I simply think that's best for yourself especially if you want to play the way you play.

 

Lastly. For all the ones in support of complete no downstate they always seem to forget that the game lagged less. I haven't seen many try to support their argument with that simple observation. **Technical issues is what objectively makes people leave games** (yes, clumping long queues into this since their servers fail to adapt). Oh pubg... Everything else we have looked at is more subjective. E.g. number versus number hypotheticals or anecdotes. Lag is objective.

 

 

[Israel.7056]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Warlord.9074" said:

> > Bad players can no longer be carried. Not sure if this is a con or a pro. IMO it's a pro but the vocal minority here probably think this is a con.

>

> Sure they can. I recently saw a condi mirage that could barely hit me. He tried. He failed. I didnt take any damage. The few condis I got I cleansed. Unfortunetly, he killed an ele next to me instead - which I easily ressed while taking no damage. We then killed him after a couple of minutes of him trying to repeatedly hide behind guards (his last ditch effort to burst me yeilded zero damage).

>

> With no downed state that ele would have been killed by a pretty meh condi mirage. That's pretty much the definition of being carried.

>

> Worst case scenario is that *two* bad players got carried.

>

> Downed state isnt as simple as "only bad people die".

 

It seems to me the obvious takeaway from this anecdote is that the ele deserved to die and you didn't.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Israel.7056" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"Warlord.9074" said:

> > > Bad players can no longer be carried. Not sure if this is a con or a pro. IMO it's a pro but the vocal minority here probably think this is a con.

> >

> > Sure they can. I recently saw a condi mirage that could barely hit me. He tried. He failed. I didnt take any damage. The few condis I got I cleansed. Unfortunetly, he killed an ele next to me instead - which I easily ressed while taking no damage. We then killed him after a couple of minutes of him trying to repeatedly hide behind guards (his last ditch effort to burst me yeilded zero damage).

> >

> > With no downed state that ele would have been killed by a pretty meh condi mirage. That's pretty much the definition of being carried.

> >

> > Worst case scenario is that *two* bad players got carried.

> >

> > Downed state isnt as simple as "only bad people die".

>

> It seems to me the obvious takeaway from this anecdote is that the ele deserved to die and you didn't.

 

Yeah but the current TTK is not tuned w/o downstate, reason downstate exists (mostly for pve reasons than pvp tho).

And instant death plus the current imba and easy access to easy gimmicks due whom game builded for would make the no downstate even worse and make players having more access to be carried than hever..

 

Humm maybe not all classes should have acces to the same rezz ??? That could be tricky and make game worse if bad re-designed(forked) >_>"

 

[The Game Slayer.7632]

> @"GDchiaScrub.3241" said:

> > @"The Game Slayer.7632" said:

> >

> > No, you're missing the point. **Here's the premise;** Many veteran player's loved no downstate. Many veteran players logged on for no downstate. Many veteran players are leaving in absence of no downstate. Which then leads to my other points of the veteran player absence problem.

> >

> > I don't think that pin sniping is really even a big problem, or even was a big problem during no downstate. Good coordinated skill play should be rewarded. But to me that's irrelevant anyways.

>

> I don't think it's a problem for commanders that have already adapted (just bring a veil or stealth gyro...). I already briefly commented vocal coordination helped even more.

>

> > Look, I want to be clear. I understand that I'm not taking into account the full game mode. I can't understand what it's like to be a zergling because I don't zerg. All I'm doing here is giving my perspective on why I'm not playing gw2 anymore. I'm a top tier pvp-er who used to regularly participate and win in tournaments. I went toe to toe vs world champions and gave them a run for their money. And I'm just telling you why I don't want to play anymore. This is an extremely common theme among us top skilled players. We're leaving at an alarming rate. I can't completely speak for all of us, but if you want me to keep playing gw2 then implementing no downstate or radically changing it is one way to keep me playing. And so be it. I'm not stressing over it too much, trust me. Gw2 is a great game, but it has serious flaws for veterans.

>

> Good. _So why not ask ANET to alter the downstate in the actual competitive game mode (Spvp)?_ Wayeee back I already recognized WvW isn't designed to be overly competitive given 3 way teams, and 24/7 persistence. Trying to turn it into something its not at this point isn't going to help, but Spvp has a greater chance and it seems you already participated in it. Would altering downstate make you play Spvp again is probably the better question. I'd assume yes by your given response.

>

> Since you gave your age, it makes sense. I too chased gaming highs when I was 16-21 (assuming age range of 5 years given this game is about that old). I'm not using high in a derogatory manner but meaning something that gives elation without being productive or long lasting. In my case, games of choice were Gunz: The Duel, Starcraft (the second one), and Super smash (Melee usually). All of which had stupid high APM's (Gunz being the worst offender). My casual game was another MMO (Everquest 2). **Given this, I still stand by that you should stick to your other games (or ask for Spvp changes)**. Being a MMO, Guild Wars 2 will have a casual mentality (if it wasn't already evident). I simply think that's best for yourself especially if you want to play the way you play.

>

> Lastly. For all the ones in support of complete no downstate they always seem to forget that the game lagged less. I haven't seen many try to support their argument with that simple observation. **Technical issues is what objectively makes people leave games** (yes, clumping long queues into this since their servers fail to adapt). Oh pubg... Everything else we have looked at is more subjective. E.g. number versus number hypotheticals or anecdotes. Lag is objective.

>

>

 

So I suppose at the bottom of the argument, you're just advocating for the game to be more casual, *or* for me to accept that the game is casual. That's fair. It's just frustrating that this game has serious potential for a competitive scene, yet it's not being actualized. But yea, no worries, I've long moved on as your advice is the advice that should be taken.

 

Good discussion.

[aspirine.5839]

> @"Farout.8207" said:

> Just curious who all would be for making no downstate permanent. I was skeptical when Anet first mentioned it but now I really miss it. It was a blast and allowed me to win some outnumbered fights that I most likely would have lost otherwise. What exactly is the point of downstate anyway?

 

Of course it should be permanent. You cannot fight blobs like this with that annoying instarez.

 

 

[MrGhosty.4296]

I didn't have a lot of gameplay time during this event, but from what I was able to play was certainly a lot more fun. What I found interesting is that on my necro I was able to tag fewer players so I technically was less rewarded but the gameplay itself was more enjoyable to the point that I didn't even realize that I was getting bags at my usual rate until I was logging for the night and clearing out.

 

It seems like right now, there is very little incentive for smaller groups to play on the map, so you get the two extremes of blob and single roamers camping respawn routes. Having no downstate gives a smaller group a chance to clash with a larger group and for both groups encourages better coordination and kill calling. I am sure there will be some cheese builds, but from what i've seen and my understanding of things there has and always will be cheese builds. The difference with no downstate being permanent there are more players actively playing the game to come out and chase down those one trick ponies whereas right now the population on my server is garbage.

 

If no downstate at all is untenable I would be equally in favor of a drastic reduction to downstate viability and functionality to bring us closer to a compromise between the two camps.

[Israel.7056]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > @"Warlord.9074" said:

> > > > Bad players can no longer be carried. Not sure if this is a con or a pro. IMO it's a pro but the vocal minority here probably think this is a con.

> > >

> > > Sure they can. I recently saw a condi mirage that could barely hit me. He tried. He failed. I didnt take any damage. The few condis I got I cleansed. Unfortunetly, he killed an ele next to me instead - which I easily ressed while taking no damage. We then killed him after a couple of minutes of him trying to repeatedly hide behind guards (his last ditch effort to burst me yeilded zero damage).

> > >

> > > With no downed state that ele would have been killed by a pretty meh condi mirage. That's pretty much the definition of being carried.

> > >

> > > Worst case scenario is that *two* bad players got carried.

> > >

> > > Downed state isnt as simple as "only bad people die".

> >

> > It seems to me the obvious takeaway from this anecdote is that the ele deserved to die and you didn't.

>

> Yeah but the current TTK is not tuned w/o downstate, reason downstate exists (mostly for pve reasons than pvp tho).

> And instant death plus the current imba and easy access to easy gimmicks due whom game builded for would make the no downstate even worse and make players having more access to be carried than hever..

>

> Humm maybe not all classes should have acces to the same rezz ??? That could be tricky and make game worse if bad re-designed(forked) >_>"

>

 

I think many would argue that TTK isn't well tuned now even with downed state. It's just a matter of personal preference.

[Gwenryth.9450]

I've been very sceptical when no Downstate got announced, for the usual reasons (getting one shotted from stealth, com snipping,...), but I really loved it. And I really miss it now that it's gone, and I wish it would be permanent.

[Wizigard.4760]

I found the no downstate week refreshing and quite interesting. So far i think events I have seen for wvw were mostly disasters but this one went well (but then again I took a long break and came back recently). Although impelementing this might be too much of a change I'd gladly have that another week.

 

One problem I see however is that there are classes with insane dmg burst (thieves,some lightning eles etc). They can down you pretty quickly so I guess such change might favour them unfairly.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

<.< >.>

 

People keep bringing up "insta-rezzing." If you played any GvGs in the later half of HoT then you may remember the start of Mercy Rune minstrel guardian meta. It was terribly boring btw. 15 minutes per round, like wut????

 

So...instead of outright removing downstate and totally create more work...we just attack "insta-rezzing." You can give attackers something like, "**CondiX** reduces effectiveness of _DownstateVariableY_" This way you are introducing an active element instead of sheering away a lot of necessary changes for "no downstate." The other way is to nerf downstate "insta-rezzing" by allowing no healing to be done during the invincibility frames so if they really wish to save someone they will have to halt their position, and become vulnerable to possible attack (positioning is always super important in WvW). The easiest method is to just address the "insta-rezzing" stuff itself, and ask **WHY** some abilities get used over others. The hint is _expedience of abilities compared to alternatives_ (MI/Transfuse/Illusion of life vs. the slow signets).

 

Even during pre-HoT the usage of Poison against Banner ressing was effective during "gvgs"... It just seems now the power creep introduced more stuff that overpowers poison in it's current form, and brought in more abilities that invalidate the slower banner.

[scerevisiae.1972]

Downed state is without doubt the worst/dumbest game feature in any game i've played in the past 30 or so years. I hope whoever thought of it & pushed for it to be in the game has since been fired or otherwise left the gaming industry so they don't screw up any more games. Downed state is one of the major reasons why sPVP majorly tanked in this game and will never go anywhere in the esports scene - it's crap to play and worse to watch.

 

Whatever I may think of GW2, it will always be remembered as the game with the worst ever game feature.

 

Here's hoping they get rid of it completely and rebalance for its loss, eg: add a set of resurrection skills for PVE.

[DemonSeed.3528]

You haven't played enough games if you think that this is the worst ever game feature in 30 years of gaming my friend.

[scerevisiae.1972]

> @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> You haven't played enough games if you think that this is the worst ever game feature in 30 years of gaming my friend.

 

lol, good point. I meant major titles.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"scerevisiae.1972" said:

> > @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > You haven't played enough games if you think that this is the worst ever game feature in 30 years of gaming my friend.

>

> lol, good point. I meant major titles.

 

Pretty sure there are worse features in major titles. Lootboxes comes to mind.

[SweetPotato.7456]

answers is no

you are asking arenanet to let you create a hostile and grievous environment for players who roams and unknowning becomes your bag? nah, thank you. I like WvW with down state. thank you very much.