[ROLL BEETLE] problems and improvements

[sorudo.9054]

I finally got my beetle but immediately saw the problems this mount has, ill list the major issues and go from there

* Endurance needs to be recharged first

* No control with booster

* Extra functions are on key's instead of the bar.

* Beside open flat land, the boost is useless.

 

Now i can rant about it to no end but that doesn't solve anything, ill rather talk what i think is the best course of action.

 

**Endurance**

Endurance should be on max _or_ at least on 50%, it should also recharge 50% faster so it's actually viable enough to use.

 

**Control**

The boost has absolutely no control, even after the boost is done it's quite hard to stop in time.

I think we should boost as long as we hold the boost button (default SPACE), that way we have control just like the skimmer.

 

**Function**

The drift button (and functions like that) should be on the bar, add it on skill 4 if need be but make it a skill instead of a button.

 

**Usefulness**

I think there should be one extra thing added to make the booster really useful, when you boost you should be able to ride over water.

The skimmer still has the upper hand in this since you can stand still and not sink wether the beetle needs to keep the booster on to get over water, this is ofcouse made for smaller distances but a useful thing.

[Westenev.5289]

I think you're confusing "problems" with "convenience", which is a dangerous road to go down. The beetle shouldn’t be an all-terrain buggy, but rather a tool we don’t presently have access too.

 

The roller beetle can:

~ Outpace a raptor even without the boost, if you take advantage of the beetle’s ability to speed up while rolling down slopes.

~ Skip over water at high speeds (although this does slow it down, eventually causing a dismount).

~ Run a full lap around core map like the Silverwastes in less time than it takes the dead redrock dolyak to time out.

 

The roller beetle can’t:

~ race uphill.

~ Boost on demand

~ Pull tight turns.

~ Jump/Glide over obstacles.

~ hover over hazardous areas or water.

 

If I look at the bug objectively, I think the mount is actually pretty balanced.

[Haleydawn.3764]

> @"Westenev.5289" said:

> If I look at the bug objectively, I think the mount is actually pretty balanced.

 

I agree. Every mount still has its use, sure the beetle could use a tweak or two to stabilise it’s movement, but overall its functionality is pretty good, easy enough to control with practice (like the Griffon, diving, wing flap and pulling up was practice)

[Randulf.7614]

> @"Westenev.5289" said:

> I think you're confusing "problems" with "convenience", which is a dangerous road to go down. The beetle shouldn’t be an all-terrain buggy, but rather a tool we don’t presently have access too.

>

> The roller beetle can:

> ~ Outpace a raptor even without the boost, if you take advantage of the beetle’s ability to speed up while rolling down slopes.

> ~ Skip over water at high speeds (although this does slow it down, eventually causing a dismount).

> ~ Run a full lap around core map like the Silverwastes in less time than it takes the dead redrock dolyak to time out.

>

> The roller beetle can’t:

> ~ race uphill.

> ~ Boost on demand

> ~ Pull tight turns.

> ~ Jump/Glide over obstacles.

> ~ hover over hazardous areas or water.

>

> If I look at the bug objectively, I think the mount is actually pretty balanced.

 

Completely agree

[sorudo.9054]

> @"Westenev.5289" said:

> I think you're confusing "problems" with "convenience", which is a dangerous road to go down. The beetle shouldn’t be an all-terrain buggy, but rather a tool we don’t presently have access too.

>

> The roller beetle can:

> ~ Outpace a raptor even without the boost, if you take advantage of the beetle’s ability to speed up while rolling down slopes.

> ~ Skip over water at high speeds (although this does slow it down, eventually causing a dismount).

> ~ Run a full lap around core map like the Silverwastes in less time than it takes the dead redrock dolyak to time out.

>

> The roller beetle can’t:

> ~ race uphill.

> ~ Boost on demand

> ~ Pull tight turns.

> ~ Jump/Glide over obstacles.

> ~ hover over hazardous areas or water.

>

> If I look at the bug objectively, I think the mount is actually pretty balanced.

 

every single bit of unevenness slows the beetle down, no other mount has this.

no, it doesn't outpace the raptor because it will never have the maneuverability and control as the raptor, let alone the jackal.

it skips about 5 meters before sinks like a rock, i can get 3X further with both a raptor and a jackal.

i would like to see you try to keep up with me when i use a jackal, you need to ride around everything while i am already there.

 

i look at it objectively and watch the balance, the beetle is the black sheep among the mounts and will remain that way until it's actually balanced to be as good as the rest.

[Westenev.5289]

> @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > @"Westenev.5289" said:

> > I think you're confusing "problems" with "convenience", which is a dangerous road to go down. The beetle shouldn’t be an all-terrain buggy, but rather a tool we don’t presently have access too.

> >

> > The roller beetle can:

> > ~ Outpace a raptor even without the boost, if you take advantage of the beetle’s ability to speed up while rolling down slopes.

> > ~ Skip over water at high speeds (although this does slow it down, eventually causing a dismount).

> > ~ Run a full lap around core map like the Silverwastes in less time than it takes the dead redrock dolyak to time out.

> >

> > The roller beetle can’t:

> > ~ race uphill.

> > ~ Boost on demand

> > ~ Pull tight turns.

> > ~ Jump/Glide over obstacles.

> > ~ hover over hazardous areas or water.

> >

> > If I look at the bug objectively, I think the mount is actually pretty balanced.

>

> every single bit of unevenness slows the beetle down, no other mount has this.

> no, it doesn't outpace the raptor because it will never have the maneuverability and control as the raptor, let alone the jackal.

> it skips about 5 meters before sinks like a rock, i can get 3X further with both a raptor and a jackal.

> i would like to see you try to keep up with me when i use a jackal, you need to ride around everything while i am already there.

>

> i look at it objectively and watch the balance, the beetle is the black sheep among the mounts and will remain that way until it's actually balanced to be as good as the rest.

 

~ Uphill slows the beetle down, while downhill speeds it up (quite rapidly). I don't see a problem with this.

~ In long distance, the Raptor would never keep up with the buggy UNLESS we were competing on a map like Deso, which has a lot of grounded mount hate.

~ If you wanted to move over long a distance of water, you would use a skimmer, not a raptor or griffon or jackal or beetle. This point is moot.

~ I'll take you up on that challenge, if you're on an EU server. I've already raced a friend who used a raptor from Hoelbrak to the Citidel of Flame - in terms of long distance traveling (point a to point b), the buggy is just better.

[Arioch.4810]

Beetle is FUN! And in pretty good place i think: Needing to charge endurance is a nice and interesting mechanic, that gives beetle some identity, and makes sure raptor is not rendered obsolete.

After i put in some hours riding and unlock all masteries i think ill tinker with the sadle somewhat, lowering the suspension. I hope that even with lower suspension it will still be street legal in Kryta . :)

[Ajaxx.3157]

Hi, I think you just need to learn how to DRIFT.

[LucianDK.8615]

Beettle is just a horrible novelty mount, nothing more. Any fun from using it is completely sucked out because it takes way too long to get started on speeding again.

[Ashantara.8731]

I am signing the petition for **fully charged endurance at start**, plus the thing **needs a break** to be able to stop it properly during super speed.

[Narrrz.7532]

I had my own thoughts on improving the beetle ( i definitely think it needs some; i don't think it's in quite as horrible a place as you do, though)

 

They're posted [here](

"here"), on reddit.

[sorudo.9054]

> @"Westenev.5289" said:

> > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > @"Westenev.5289" said:

> > > I think you're confusing "problems" with "convenience", which is a dangerous road to go down. The beetle shouldn’t be an all-terrain buggy, but rather a tool we don’t presently have access too.

> > >

> > > The roller beetle can:

> > > ~ Outpace a raptor even without the boost, if you take advantage of the beetle’s ability to speed up while rolling down slopes.

> > > ~ Skip over water at high speeds (although this does slow it down, eventually causing a dismount).

> > > ~ Run a full lap around core map like the Silverwastes in less time than it takes the dead redrock dolyak to time out.

> > >

> > > The roller beetle can’t:

> > > ~ race uphill.

> > > ~ Boost on demand

> > > ~ Pull tight turns.

> > > ~ Jump/Glide over obstacles.

> > > ~ hover over hazardous areas or water.

> > >

> > > If I look at the bug objectively, I think the mount is actually pretty balanced.

> >

> > every single bit of unevenness slows the beetle down, no other mount has this.

> > no, it doesn't outpace the raptor because it will never have the maneuverability and control as the raptor, let alone the jackal.

> > it skips about 5 meters before sinks like a rock, i can get 3X further with both a raptor and a jackal.

> > i would like to see you try to keep up with me when i use a jackal, you need to ride around everything while i am already there.

> >

> > i look at it objectively and watch the balance, the beetle is the black sheep among the mounts and will remain that way until it's actually balanced to be as good as the rest.

>

> ~ Uphill slows the beetle down, while downhill speeds it up (quite rapidly). I don't see a problem with this.

> ~ In long distance, the Raptor would never keep up with the buggy UNLESS we were competing on a map like Deso, which has a lot of grounded mount hate.

> ~ If you wanted to move over long a distance of water, you would use a skimmer, not a raptor or griffon or jackal or beetle. This point is moot.

> ~ I'll take you up on that challenge, if you're on an EU server. I've already raced a friend who used a raptor from Hoelbrak to the Citidel of Flame - in terms of long distance traveling (point a to point b), the buggy is just better.

 

no, i challenge you from mountainroot lair to forward camp, it has plenty of obstacles a beetle can never get trough without slowing down to a crawl and dismounting because there are to many hills.

i will use a jackal, the one who can get anywhere with just a few blinks.

oh and deso is my favorite mount place, i love the obstacles to overcome, it only hates mounts that are not made for rough terrain.

[AliamRationem.5172]

You guys are missing the point. While racing is fun, a mount needs to function for the way people actually play the game. The beetle's current functionality is only useful for getting from point A to point B without stopping and over flat ground. Very few maps are conducive to this and most of those that are may be found in Tyria, where waypoints serve this purpose better than any mount can. A few of the PoF maps would be good...if they didn't have terrain designed for the other mounts and high mob density, which the beetle just can't handle due to its lack of an evasion skill. And, of course, if you do get dismounted it negates the entire purpose because you then have to wait forever to get going again. Finally, if you want to harvest, just forget it.

 

Put it all together and the beetle is just a fun gimmick, not a usable mount. If the situation were reversed, the concern would be that a mount is overlapped by everything else and its niche is too small. But because the beetle is new, apparently that's okay?

 

Remember. This guy can't jump. He will never overlap raptor or jackal as a result. In my opinion, we should absolutely be using this mount for general travel over flat ground and the other mounts (jackal/raptor/griffon) for the more varied terrain. If the concern is that the beetle's niche is too large if, for instance, we gave it access to boost immediately upon mounting, then how about a redesign with a 3-stage endurance bar like jackal has? Each stage would boost speed, requiring a full 3 boosts to achieve max speed. Add an evade to each stage and let the beetle start with 33% endurance for a single stage boost, just to get it moving.

[Blocki.4931]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> You guys are missing the point. While racing is fun, a mount needs to function for the way people actually play the game. The beetle's current functionality is only useful for getting from point A to point B without stopping and over flat ground. Very few maps are conducive to this and most of those that are may be found in Tyria, where waypoints serve this purpose better than any mount can. A few of the PoF maps would be good...if they didn't have terrain designed for the other mounts and high mob density, which the beetle just can't handle due to its lack of an evasion skill. And, of course, if you do get dismounted it negates the entire purpose because you then have to wait forever to get going again. Finally, if you want to harvest, just forget it.

>

> Put it all together and the beetle is just a fun gimmick, not a usable mount. If the situation were reversed, the concern would be that a mount is overlapped by everything else and its niche is too small. But because the beetle is new, apparently that's okay?

>

> Remember. This guy can't jump. He will never overlap raptor or jackal as a result. In my opinion, we should absolutely be using this mount for general travel over flat ground and the other mounts (jackal/raptor/griffon) for the more varied terrain. If the concern is that the beetle's niche is too large if, for instance, we gave it access to boost immediately upon mounting, then how about a redesign with a 3-stage endurance bar like jackal has? Each stage would boost speed, requiring a full 3 boosts to achieve max speed. Add an evade to each stage and let the beetle start with 33% endurance for a single stage boost, just to get it moving.

 

Yes, he can jump. You can bounce off and fly forward by bumping into small rocks lol and while your endurance bar isn't at 100% you can make small hops at no cost, which allows you to bypass a few obstacles.

 

People need to learn maneuvering that thing for now. It's not supposed to be strictly better at everything. Nothing will beat the Griffon due to it's wing flapping being good enough to lift you up most smaller obstacles without having to constantly change mounts or lose tempo. Raptor is good for that burst movement speed and Jackal is good over long stretches. Beetle combines those two by starting you off somewhere between with the potential to outspeed both.

 

They also differ in terms of gameplay. Jackal means pressing V 24/7 which personally gets on my damn nerves after 10 seconds already. They also aren't that different in very base movement on flat surface, it's not like you're literally moving at walking speed unless going uphill.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > You guys are missing the point. While racing is fun, a mount needs to function for the way people actually play the game. The beetle's current functionality is only useful for getting from point A to point B without stopping and over flat ground. Very few maps are conducive to this and most of those that are may be found in Tyria, where waypoints serve this purpose better than any mount can. A few of the PoF maps would be good...if they didn't have terrain designed for the other mounts and high mob density, which the beetle just can't handle due to its lack of an evasion skill. And, of course, if you do get dismounted it negates the entire purpose because you then have to wait forever to get going again. Finally, if you want to harvest, just forget it.

> >

> > Put it all together and the beetle is just a fun gimmick, not a usable mount. If the situation were reversed, the concern would be that a mount is overlapped by everything else and its niche is too small. But because the beetle is new, apparently that's okay?

> >

> > Remember. This guy can't jump. He will never overlap raptor or jackal as a result. In my opinion, we should absolutely be using this mount for general travel over flat ground and the other mounts (jackal/raptor/griffon) for the more varied terrain. If the concern is that the beetle's niche is too large if, for instance, we gave it access to boost immediately upon mounting, then how about a redesign with a 3-stage endurance bar like jackal has? Each stage would boost speed, requiring a full 3 boosts to achieve max speed. Add an evade to each stage and let the beetle start with 33% endurance for a single stage boost, just to get it moving.

>

> Yes, he can jump. You can bounce off and fly forward by bumping into small rocks lol and while your endurance bar isn't at 100% you can make small hops at no cost, which allows you to bypass a few obstacles.

>

> People need to learn maneuvering that thing for now. It's not supposed to be strictly better at everything. Nothing will beat the Griffon due to it's wing flapping being good enough to lift you up most smaller obstacles without having to constantly change mounts or lose tempo. Raptor is good for that burst movement speed and Jackal is good over long stretches. Beetle combines those two by starting you off somewhere between with the potential to outspeed both.

>

> They also differ in terms of gameplay. Jackal means pressing V 24/7 which personally gets on my kitten nerves after 10 seconds already. They also aren't that different in very base movement on flat surface, it's not like you're literally moving at walking speed unless going uphill.

 

No. He can't jump in any useful fashion. The high speed roll over terrain is quite good (And absolutely needs to be that good to make the beetle useful at all!), but again it is locked behind the beetle's other limitations. Before attaining high speed, the beetle is effectively locked on flat ground.

 

You can't compare walking speed on mounts as if the other mounts can't use their distance-covering abilities right away. What is the point of this argument?

[Boogiepop Void.6473]

Regarding putting the controls on the bar, they are like that due to legacy code. Anything that appears on the bar shares the binding with that position on the bar unconditionally. So if they put skills on the bar, the ability to custom-bind them is lost. They simply cannot put in graphics for the abilities without hurting player controls.

[fabjan.1769]

> @"Boogiepop Void.6473" said:

> Regarding putting the controls on the bar, they are like that due to legacy code. Anything that appears on the bar shares the binding with that position on the bar unconditionally. So if they put skills on the bar, the ability to custom-bind them is lost. They simply cannot put in graphics for the abilities without hurting player controls.

 

You can set the mount ability two on the same button as the second attack.

[Haleydawn.3764]

> @"fabjan.1769" said:

> > @"Boogiepop Void.6473" said:

> > Regarding putting the controls on the bar, they are like that due to legacy code. Anything that appears on the bar shares the binding with that position on the bar unconditionally. So if they put skills on the bar, the ability to custom-bind them is lost. They simply cannot put in graphics for the abilities without hurting player controls.

>

> You can set the mount ability two on the same button as the second attack.

 

Yes, that what we are saying, but if the OPs suggestion would be to add them (Mount ability 1 and 2) into the weapon skill bar like Mount Skill 1 (Engage) it would have to share the same keybinds as Weapon Skills 2 and 3. Whereas how it is now, we can bind weapon skills and mount skills 2 and 3 seperately, or on top of one another if we wanted to.

[Boogiepop Void.6473]

> @"fabjan.1769" said:

> > @"Boogiepop Void.6473" said:

> > Regarding putting the controls on the bar, they are like that due to legacy code. Anything that appears on the bar shares the binding with that position on the bar unconditionally. So if they put skills on the bar, the ability to custom-bind them is lost. They simply cannot put in graphics for the abilities without hurting player controls.

>

> You can set the mount ability two on the same button as the second attack.

 

You CAN set them to be the same button now. If they are placed on the bar there is no separate binding. What is on the bar in position X is bound as "thing on the bar in position X". If it is on the bar there is no option; it is bound by position.

[Conncept.7638]

Only change I think it needs is that falling should increase your momentum just like going downhill, to make it a little better over uneven terrain and incentivize its jumping mechanic. Or just make tricks usable on smaller jumps, but something so it's works better on bumpy terrain.