Does anyone actually have fun fighting against a mesmer?

[Jay.3409]

i fucking hate it, i find it stressful... its like playing whack a mole.. except you kill one.. 10 more pops up.. Whats the possibility that they'll nerf the amount of clones they can use? this is just cancer..

[bravan.3876]

> @"Jay.3409" said:

> i kitten hate it, i find it stressful... its like playing whack a mole.. except you kill one.. 10 more pops up.. Whats the possibility that they'll nerf the amount of clones they can use? this is just cancer..

 

Yes all these clones surviving 3 minutes of your single target autoattack focus and when it finally dies 10 more pop up. Fighting mesmers as a white fly main without finding the real mes amoug 3 clones is rly a pain xD

[phokus.8934]

More fun fighting a Mirage Mesmer than a condi Thief.

[ArthurDent.9538]

> @"phokus.8934" said:

> More fun fighting a Mirage Mesmer than a condi Thief.

 

So similar to how walking barefoot across hot coals is more fun than walking barefoot across broken glass shards.

[Milan.9035]

I assume its very fun for the mirage. For me no.

[Arlette.9684]

Think of it this way. If everyone is convinced Mirage is the most broken class in the game. You playing one and fighting other Mirages, would be considered a fair fight. When you take out class imbalance, what’s left is build choices and pure skill. Go find your Mirage opponents boys, show them what you’ve got.

 

:smile:

 

P.S. Ignore any misspelled words, the Cutty is strong is this one :wink:

[Clownmug.8357]

The clones are what's stressful about fighting mesmer? I thought it was the abundance of stealth, invulnerability and teleportation combined with strong burst damage in almost every build.

[Schwahrheit.4203]

Tbh, Mesmer has been an idiot class since launch. People pretend that Mesmer is hard. A class can be "high skill cap" and be a braindead class at the same time, d/d Ele already proved that before Elite specs.

 

Like what is so hard about baiting dodges with "Phantasms and then use instacast shatters at the end of evades or when the guy runs out of evades" when I can't even count your dodges and rarely be able to punish you through it and land anything reasonable casting time at the end of the evade? Even back in the day, Mesmer can fight Thief, it's just that most Mesmer mains cry about instaburst on Thief when that's the only thing reliable that can kill Mesmer when there were no elite specs.

 

Portal plays aren't exactly hard either once you understand how to rotate, like really? This makes it easy for your team to disengage if you go to a point and then portal back when you're losing, resetting the fight if you fail to "time" your ez evades. All portal does is make "rotations" easier. Nothing hard about "planning ahead" on a class that's already broken when fighting.

 

Most people who play Mesmer try to land a hundred blades with a Warrior back in the day and can't do it, insta re-roll back to their "seemingly hard mode" class.

 

Mesmer has been too much of a privileged class, even when it was "underpowered" during when d/d ele, shoutbow, slick shoes was the meta, and nobody wants to admit it. Even though Mesmer was underpowered at this point in time? They still had portal, they could still burst d/d ele. I don't know why call that underpowered when you can actually still do something.

 

HoT and PoF just made all of Mesmer's ez-ness worse.

 

There were way harder things to do such as landing grenades at max 1200 range like OstrichEggs and Chaith does, those guys made Engi work without slick shoes and deserve more respect than kids like "Helseth" who can't even land Skull Grinder at least 50% of the time when it was OP. Though Mesmer do have some builds that deserve some respect albeit not really viable, Mesmer overall is actually disgustingly easy mode but people don't want to admit it, PvP-wise.

[Erzian.5218]

Is any class in this game fun to fight against?

[BeLZedaR.4790]

> @"Erzian.5218" said:

> Is any class in this game fun to fight against?

 

The PoF ones - not really. Prior to PoF, sure, nearly all of them. Aside from, guess. Mesmer.

[Curunen.8729]

Hell yes.

 

I'd sooner fight a mesmer than a warrior - ie the latter is tedious like bashing head into a brick wall.

 

Even when I dabbled in melee ranger, I enjoyed fighting mesmer.

 

Also pre specialisations I enjoyed fighting thief as mesmer, nevermind the disadvantage - because fast paced porting around, anticipating and overall agile gameplay is more fun than two brick walls going head to head. It's the animations and playstyle.

 

It frequently annoys me when subjective dislike of a class' mechanics are mixed up with actual balance issues - which seems to happen a lot around here.

[Dreddo.9865]

More evades, stealth and invulns for mirage, this class needs some love.

[Math.5123]

Mesmers, yes. Mirages and Chaos Chronos? No.

[Malediktus.9250]

Most meta builds are very boring and tedious to play against

[Milan.9035]

I love fighting against renegades lol.

[Daishi.6027]

Not really.

 

I almost always know which is the right one, I almost always can anticipate the burst, and I know how to mitigate said burst.

 

In the events I cannot, or lose focus I can utilize the terrain and manipulate illusion's pathing.

 

There is plenty of counter play, you just have to use your head.

If you find this stressful regardless of success, then it is a mental weakness of the player combating it, it should not be nerfed to accommodate.

 

If this is a standard we are nerfing by then I can't wait till someone is on about how thief is "to stressful" to fight because it can burst you at any time through walls almost instantly and safe in open terrain thanks to it's abundant access to doges."

 

Worse when people make less argumentative claims pointing at specifics and go:

 

Warrior is "to stressful" to fight because they are to safe and sustainy while hitting very hard.

 

Necros is "to stressful" to fight because I have to dance around their circles.

 

This is how diversity dies.

 

Players should get stronger beyond mental weaknesses and ineptitude, different builds may take a different mentality to fight learn to adapt.

 

There may be some of condi mirage that over performs, but that is an output condi issue, Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage baseline have more than enough counter play built into their core mechanics.

 

The sooner people learn to pressure, read, and anticipate the better.

Learn to stow your weapons instead of throwing powerful skills into doges/blocks/invulns.

[MyPuppy.8970]

I do. Not saying it's not a bit overtuned in mesmer's favor, but I can feel adrenaline and excitement while fighting one. I think the only boring fights are against your own spec.

[Odik.4587]

Something that kills me -> not fun to play against . Something that cant kill me -> fun to play against

 

[urdriel.8496]

> @"Daishi.6027" said:

> Not really.

>

> I almost always know which is the right one, I almost always can anticipate the burst, and I know how to mitigate said burst.

>

> In the events I cannot, or lose focus I can utilize the terrain and manipulate illusion's pathing.

>

> There is plenty of counter play, you just have to use your head.

 

that was actually a good joke..............You didnt think that mesmer is a human player too....he will use his head too., and if he knows how to sum 1+1, he will crush your head with mesmer xD, and if he fail, he only have to use one of their nice amount of gap closers/disengagers to go out combat, and repeat.

 

 

 

 

[Daishi.6027]

> @"urdriel.8496" said:

> > @"Daishi.6027" said:

> > Not really.

> >

> > I almost always know which is the right one, I almost always can anticipate the burst, and I know how to mitigate said burst.

> >

> > In the events I cannot, or lose focus I can utilize the terrain and manipulate illusion's pathing.

> >

> > There is plenty of counter play, you just have to use your head.

>

> that was actually a good joke..............You didnt think that mesmer is a human player too....he will use his head too., and **if he knows how to sum 1+1, he will crush your head** with mesmer xD, **and if he fail, he only have to use one of their nice amount of gap closers/disengagers to go out combat, and repeat.**

>

>

 

The bold can also be done by thief.

 

And yes if they have a brain they will try to out play you too. Every class and build in the game has every tool they need to out play a mesmer/chrono/mirage.

SOMETIMES (because it's not true for every meta) mesmer/chrono/mirage has every tool to play almost everything else.

 

This isn't unfair this is a balanced matchup if you are not bad.

[urdriel.8496]

> @"Daishi.6027" said:

> > @"urdriel.8496" said:

> > > @"Daishi.6027" said:

> > > Not really.

> > >

> > > I almost always know which is the right one, I almost always can anticipate the burst, and I know how to mitigate said burst.

> > >

> > > In the events I cannot, or lose focus I can utilize the terrain and manipulate illusion's pathing.

> > >

> > > There is plenty of counter play, you just have to use your head.

> >

> > that was actually a good joke..............You didnt think that mesmer is a human player too....he will use his head too., and **if he knows how to sum 1+1, he will crush your head** with mesmer xD, **and if he fail, he only have to use one of their nice amount of gap closers/disengagers to go out combat, and repeat.**

> >

> >

>

> The bold can also be done by thief.

>

> And yes if they have a brain they will try to out play you too. Every class and build in the game has every tool they need to out play a mesmer/chrono/mirage.

> SOMETIMES (because it's not true for every meta) mesmer/chrono/mirage has every tool to play almost everything else.

>

> This isn't unfair this is a balanced matchup if you are not bad.

 

yep, thief can do the same, but you dont have to deal with lost target all time, plus clones and phantasm, and if is a mirage mesmer, he will stand in front of you for 8-**10sec , attacking you , while doing evade.**, ¿¿how would you counter that kind of gameplay?? , evade>all, if you move to or eavde or use a tp or blink, he will use another, and will continue hitting you while evading, 8sec of total invulnerability in Spvp is BROKEN, in WvW is worst because they have better gear .

 

there are classes that if made a single mistake, you are dead, by example, thief, if you fail your evade/blink, you are dead meat, ranger, if you fail your dodges or your stealth skills you are dead, and we have have another bunch of classes that are really permisive with players fails, would be nice if classes than punish people the most ,had a high skill ceiling but, all we know that you dont need a high skill ceiling to faceroll with meta classes.

 

Meta classes are meta because when facing people with same skill level you class is better, a good mesmer should always win a good ranger.

[Daishi.6027]

> @"urdriel.8496" said:

> > @"Daishi.6027" said:

> > > @"urdriel.8496" said:

> > > > @"Daishi.6027" said:

> > > > Not really.

> > > >

> > > > I almost always know which is the right one, I almost always can anticipate the burst, and I know how to mitigate said burst.

> > > >

> > > > In the events I cannot, or lose focus I can utilize the terrain and manipulate illusion's pathing.

> > > >

> > > > There is plenty of counter play, you just have to use your head.

> > >

> > > that was actually a good joke..............You didnt think that mesmer is a human player too....he will use his head too., and **if he knows how to sum 1+1, he will crush your head** with mesmer xD, **and if he fail, he only have to use one of their nice amount of gap closers/disengagers to go out combat, and repeat.**

> > >

> > >

> >

> > The bold can also be done by thief.

> >

> > And yes if they have a brain they will try to out play you too. Every class and build in the game has every tool they need to out play a mesmer/chrono/mirage.

> > SOMETIMES (because it's not true for every meta) mesmer/chrono/mirage has every tool to play almost everything else.

> >

> > This isn't unfair this is a balanced matchup if you are not bad.

>

> yep, thief can do the same, but you dont have to deal with lost target all time, plus clones and phantasm, and if is a mirage mesmer, he will stand in front of you for 8-10sec , attacking you , while doing evade.

 

If you fail to manage the illusions, get lost in them, and die that is your own fault and a problem of your own ineptitude to keep up. Some of us do not have this problem as I underlined at the start. To quote myself again:

" I almost always know which is the right one, I almost always can anticipate the burst, and I know how to mitigate said burst."

"In the events I cannot, or lose focus I can utilize the terrain and manipulate illusion's pathing."

 

You called this a joke, but I wonder if you only think I'm joking because you cannot fathom ever being able to do so?

Sure, unlike the first many years hiding in illusions is actually possible with mirage. Sorry the mechanic actually works now? However even then it's not hard to figure it out unless they run a build devoid of many buffs that are obvious tells through boons and the like. In which case, good on em for winning with very unviable specs.

[urdriel.8496]

> @"Daishi.6027" said:

> > @"urdriel.8496" said:

> > > @"Daishi.6027" said:

> > > > @"urdriel.8496" said:

> > > > > @"Daishi.6027" said:

> > > > > Not really.

> > > > >

> > > > > I almost always know which is the right one, I almost always can anticipate the burst, and I know how to mitigate said burst.

> > > > >

> > > > > In the events I cannot, or lose focus I can utilize the terrain and manipulate illusion's pathing.

> > > > >

> > > > > There is plenty of counter play, you just have to use your head.

> > > >

> > > > that was actually a good joke..............You didnt think that mesmer is a human player too....he will use his head too., and **if he knows how to sum 1+1, he will crush your head** with mesmer xD, **and if he fail, he only have to use one of their nice amount of gap closers/disengagers to go out combat, and repeat.**

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > The bold can also be done by thief.

> > >

> > > And yes if they have a brain they will try to out play you too. Every class and build in the game has every tool they need to out play a mesmer/chrono/mirage.

> > > SOMETIMES (because it's not true for every meta) mesmer/chrono/mirage has every tool to play almost everything else.

> > >

> > > This isn't unfair this is a balanced matchup if you are not bad.

> >

> > yep, thief can do the same, but you dont have to deal with lost target all time, plus clones and phantasm, and if is a mirage mesmer, he will stand in front of you for 8-10sec , attacking you , while doing evade.

>

> If you fail to manage the illusions, get lost in them, and die that is your own fault and a problem of your own ineptitude to keep up. Some of us do not have this problem as I underlined at the start. To quote myself again:

> " I almost always know which is the right one, I almost always can anticipate the burst, and I know how to mitigate said burst."

> "In the events I cannot, or lose focus I can utilize the terrain and manipulate illusion's pathing."

>

>** You called this a joke, but I wonder if you only think I'm joking because you cannot fathom ever being able to do so?**

> Sure, unlike the first many years hiding in illusions is actually possible with mirage. Sorry the mechanic actually works now? But even then it's not hard to figure it out unless they run a build devoid of many buffs that are obvious tells through boons and the like. In which case, good on em for winning with very unviable specs.

 

Your best argument is L2P?? pff, the problem here is that people like you , dunno why, never want that games reach a true balance between classes, unbalanced classes are a reality, you can take it or not, but you cant deny it, if you have 8 classes 4 are meta and 4 no, means that 4 classes need a balance ( nerf 4 or buff 4).

 

Right now, better classes are Holo,Mesmer,SB and FB, can you win against them with another class that is not meta?? ofc you can, but you need to outplay them in every single aspect of the fight, sometime you can do it , sometimes dont, in fact if the player in front of you have your same skill level but a meta class, you usually will lose, it is not about being good or bad, it is the class balance.

 

GW1 balance team DID AND AWESOME JOB.

GW2 balance team, well, do they really exist?

[Blackdagger.9670]

_"Mirage is just fine, learn to play"_ - Anet.

[Daishi.6027]

> @"urdriel.8496" said:

> > @"Daishi.6027" said:

> > > @"urdriel.8496" said:

> > > > @"Daishi.6027" said:

> > > > > @"urdriel.8496" said:

> > > > > > @"Daishi.6027" said:

> > > > > > Not really.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I almost always know which is the right one, I almost always can anticipate the burst, and I know how to mitigate said burst.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In the events I cannot, or lose focus I can utilize the terrain and manipulate illusion's pathing.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There is plenty of counter play, you just have to use your head.

> > > > >

> > > > > that was actually a good joke..............You didnt think that mesmer is a human player too....he will use his head too., and **if he knows how to sum 1+1, he will crush your head** with mesmer xD, **and if he fail, he only have to use one of their nice amount of gap closers/disengagers to go out combat, and repeat.**

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > The bold can also be done by thief.

> > > >

> > > > And yes if they have a brain they will try to out play you too. Every class and build in the game has every tool they need to out play a mesmer/chrono/mirage.

> > > > SOMETIMES (because it's not true for every meta) mesmer/chrono/mirage has every tool to play almost everything else.

> > > >

> > > > This isn't unfair this is a balanced matchup if you are not bad.

> > >

> > > yep, thief can do the same, but you dont have to deal with lost target all time, plus clones and phantasm, and if is a mirage mesmer, he will stand in front of you for 8-10sec , attacking you , while doing evade.

> >

> > If you fail to manage the illusions, get lost in them, and die that is your own fault and a problem of your own ineptitude to keep up. Some of us do not have this problem as I underlined at the start. To quote myself again:

> > " I almost always know which is the right one, I almost always can anticipate the burst, and I know how to mitigate said burst."

> > "In the events I cannot, or lose focus I can utilize the terrain and manipulate illusion's pathing."

> >

> >** You called this a joke, but I wonder if you only think I'm joking because you cannot fathom ever being able to do so?**

> > Sure, unlike the first many years hiding in illusions is actually possible with mirage. Sorry the mechanic actually works now? But even then it's not hard to figure it out unless they run a build devoid of many buffs that are obvious tells through boons and the like. In which case, good on em for winning with very unviable specs.

>

> Your best argument is L2P?? pff, the problem here is that **people like you , dunno why, never want that games reach a true balance between classes,** unbalanced classes are a reality, you can take it or not, but you cant deny it, if you have 8 classes 4 are meta and 4 no, means that 4 classes need a balance ( nerf 4 or buff 4).

>

> GW1 balance team DID AND AWESOME JOB.

> GW2 balance team, well, do they really exist?

 

Every class is given every tool they need to to out play a mirage I'm sorry if you do not see it, or know how to use it.

Yes mirage has every tool to out play majority of the roster (still susceptible to a few counters) but that is true balance.

 

L2P issues are a pretty big deal, if I stand in front of a war and die and cry it's OP, it's pretty reasonable to tell me to learn to fight it.

If I **only** react to things I can see and die to a thief and call it OP, I think it's also reasonable to tell me to learn to fight it.

So in turn, if I get lost in illusions, do not know how to avoid the burst or specific skills that hurt from a mesmer, and die then call it OP; It is reasonable to tell me to learn to fight it.

 

By meta battle's standards (arguably not the best, but most commonly used site) we have 31 viable specs (good or better). Where every class archetype has representation.

We do not have a conquest meta with 4 bunkers/bruisers sitting on points never dying 2-3v1, and have a meta that more often than not says "push and die, or leave and rotate" like it should be. Balance is a lot better than it has ever been. Not to say there are not issues, I made my stance on condi mirage clear.

 

GW1 is still getting updates in 2018, if you dislike GW2 so much and the PvP is so much better, that game is still an option for you.