3 more months at being at bottom of benchmark

[Axl.8924]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > Your arguing that it doesn't matter you can win if you get lucky but if i get /autokicked then yes it matters because we cannot provide good dps/support and bad amounts of abilities for invuns and stuff like that.

>

> I don't understand ... you don't need to be lucky. You just need to team with people that don't worship the meta if you don't want to play meta builds/classes/comps. People do this all the time ... what's your excuse?

 

SIMPLE the meta is a gauge of what is viable in support/tank/dps the three roles and a gauge of what they can provide to raid group and pvp and a gauge of dps and survivability combined.

 

Lets say for an instance a really fat guy with terrible asthma for instances wants to be the next soccer champion guy, nobody in his right mind would take him because he would be awful,and on top of that, not only is his health problem but if he's unskilled enough, then that adds another.

 

Its the same thing with necros, they literally need to be allowed in a raid and with their minimal dps and tools means they are outperformed so once again i ask:Why in your right mind would you bring a necromancer when you can bring a thief with deadeye who can do more dps or a ele or some other class? You may dislike the meta site, but its there for a reason.

 

Also:we aren't obsessing over tiny numbers, but huuge big numbers, like the difference between a scourge necro and lets say for instance a holo who can do 35k dps or something crazy, thats HUGE!!! and thats on a unmoving golem.

 

On a moving enemy that has no resists and you have to dodge its even less than that.

[Obtena.7952]

OK, but that doesn't change what i said ... you don't need to be lucky to get teams with necro. You just need to team with people that don't worship the meta if you don't want to play meta builds/classes/comps.

 

The disparity doesn't prevent you from getting teams and being successful unless you restrict yourself to PUGS running meta where you insist on playing how you want.

[Taqe.1342]

And who is a tank in this non meta pug group? necro? who is the healer/ support in that group? necro? who is carrying the team with their 2x more dps than anyone else? necro? Yes you can complete the raid as necro, but how do you feel when someone else does the tanking, someone else does healing/support and someone else on the team does more dmg than you? how do you feel?

[Barnabus Stinson.1409]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Barnabus Stinson.1409" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > Let's get back to the topic shall we ... this isn't about how DPS is a big deal in raids or if you think I do raids or not.

> > >

> > > I won't debate that more DPS is beneficial because it obviously is ... that's NOT what we are discussing here. It's about the misconception that classes need to meet some player-determined threshold for damage to even join a raid. That's clearly false. It's also about the misconception that players can't be successful if they don't play meta classes in raids, or use the meta builds. That's also false. Players raid with non-meta classes and comps and succeed all the time ... so what's your excuse?

> >

> > Reductio ad absurdum time:

> >

> > You are doing a Fractal, Raid or any group content where your success depends on others as well as yourself. You keep failing, you just cant do it as a group. When thinking why it hits you...The character who is half naked and other half in blues. **Are you happy and supportive of their choice?**

>

> Right ... this all comes back to who you team with, not the class you play. . The threshold for success is low enough to enable a team of being successful with the all classes in the game. Thanks for making my point.

>

> You see, it's not meta that gives you success, it's how people play.

 

Yeah it does come down to who you play with, you can try any content with any class any build. You cant complete any content with any class. 5 druids is never going to be able to do Nightmare CM. Its hard limit.

So when you have a party and respect each palyers time and effort, expecting to be carried is being selfish and a bit of a kitten. So forcing classes to be carried by mechanically denying them from completeing the requirments of content is bad design.

 

But again it boggles my mind how you think argueing against balance is a sound and sensible idea. I really want to know, what motivates it?

Would you support this? "all mesmer attacks should do 1 damage" see I think its a horrendous idea as it makes a class unable to take part and require other players to carry them. But as you have said many times...if they find a nice enough group....Boom all good right?

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

>

> So what is needed for a necro to be a tank then? i mean reaper used to be great for kiting that drill boss guy in fractals with chills and wandering around.

> How does tanking then work exactly in raids?

 

Strictly speaking, a necro need nothing to tank he already got everything necessary to survive. However, the same can be said for all professions. What matter is not it's ability to tank but what he does at the same time that he tank and what your team need. The chronomancer is simply unshackable in it's tank role unless another profession can suddenly grant perma quickness and perma alacrity.

 

So to answer your question, what the necromancer need to tank is either

- be able to provide perma quickness and alacrity, (very unlikely)

- another profession being able to do that without tanking (best bet could be revenant because he already have access to the 2 boons)

- or a stat set which would allow the mesmer to continue to provide it's support without making him tanky. (condition damage/precision/concentration/vitality)

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> No it's not good ... I didn't say it was. I said that the attention it deserves is related to the size of the problem it presents. Maybe people should stop rationalizing their POV with some of the most ridiculous arguments ever presented as well. It's not about what's wrong or right, and you know it.

 

It's actually a pretty big problem. Necros are getting kicked from endgame content.

Now come and say, but there's only 10 % doing this content. Yes exactly that's why anet should listen to these requests.

There's some players doing PvP and some wvw. But that's also maybe only 10 % of the game and they listen to these folks as well. Same goes when it comes down to nerfing necro.

 

There are countless ways of buffing/changing necro. Just look at the necro forum. But do we get anything of these? No. Instead other classes get the changes we would want to see for necro (just look at focus change from guard).

 

So now why do we necro mains deserve these changes?

 

Let's get back to the thing mentioned above. 10% wvw/PvP, 10% endgame pve content, 80% open world players.

But those 80 % wouldn't care or even notice 10% buff to necromancer which would put necro on a decent spot. Not the highest DPS, still at the end of the benchmark list, but just enough to outdps support spec like warrior.

 

And what would necro bring as support? Barrier on ~16 seconds cooldowns for 5 players, and that's it for the support it can do. but it would be okay then. What brings warrior right now? 2k more DPS, and 4 squadwide buffs (3banners +empower allies), that are essential for some classes to reach their maximum.

 

 

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> Dps isn't the only thing utilities support Offensive defensive and of course tankiness, because if you die your dps is automatically zero. because you aren't able to help your group.

 

But that's where this kicks in:

 

 

And passive defense is much stronger in pve than active defense. But on raid bosses this gets little bit different, because of %dmg and instant kill mechanics

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > No it's not good ... I didn't say it was. I said that the attention it deserves is related to the size of the problem it presents. Maybe people should stop rationalizing their POV with some of the most ridiculous arguments ever presented as well. It's not about what's wrong or right, and you know it.

>

> It's actually a pretty big problem. Necros are getting kicked from endgame content.

 

OK ... you have some choices to make then: choose your teams better or stop using non-meta classes.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Barnabus Stinson.1409" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Barnabus Stinson.1409" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > Let's get back to the topic shall we ... this isn't about how DPS is a big deal in raids or if you think I do raids or not.

> > > >

> > > > I won't debate that more DPS is beneficial because it obviously is ... that's NOT what we are discussing here. It's about the misconception that classes need to meet some player-determined threshold for damage to even join a raid. That's clearly false. It's also about the misconception that players can't be successful if they don't play meta classes in raids, or use the meta builds. That's also false. Players raid with non-meta classes and comps and succeed all the time ... so what's your excuse?

> > >

> > > Reductio ad absurdum time:

> > >

> > > You are doing a Fractal, Raid or any group content where your success depends on others as well as yourself. You keep failing, you just cant do it as a group. When thinking why it hits you...The character who is half naked and other half in blues. **Are you happy and supportive of their choice?**

> >

> > Right ... this all comes back to who you team with, not the class you play. . The threshold for success is low enough to enable a team of being successful with the all classes in the game. Thanks for making my point.

> >

> > You see, it's not meta that gives you success, it's how people play.

>

> Yeah it does come down to who you play with, you can try any content with any class any build. You cant complete any content with any class. 5 druids is never going to be able to do Nightmare CM. Its hard limit.

 

Right ... so people make choices and build teams based on what they want to do. it's not a free for all here. That's not the message. There ARE limits but people can play the classes they want within those limits. The threshold for success is low enough to enable a team of being successful and allow a wide range of classes in it. You don't need to play meta to win but you still have to think about the goal and what you need to complete it.

 

It's easy to argue against Meta DPS balancing ... I've probably exhausted all the reasons I don't think it's a good idea. It shouldn't boggle your mind at all if you've been paying attention.

 

 

[Swamurabi.7890]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > No it's not good ... I didn't say it was. I said that the attention it deserves is related to the size of the problem it presents. Maybe people should stop rationalizing their POV with some of the most ridiculous arguments ever presented as well. It's not about what's wrong or right, and you know it.

> >

> > It's actually a pretty big problem. Necros are getting kicked from endgame content.

>

> OK ... you have some choices to make then: choose your teams better or stop using non-meta classes.

 

And that's been the problem for Necros in PvE endgame as well as sPvP, Necros have always had to choose wisely.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > No it's not good ... I didn't say it was. I said that the attention it deserves is related to the size of the problem it presents. Maybe people should stop rationalizing their POV with some of the most ridiculous arguments ever presented as well. It's not about what's wrong or right, and you know it.

> >

> > It's actually a pretty big problem. Necros are getting kicked from endgame content.

>

> OK ... you have some choices to make then: choose your teams better or stop using non-meta classes.

 

Is this really coming from you or did someone hack your account?

 

Right now I have a raid group and on some bosses we still use a necromancer, but we got 3 necro mains.

 

But I'm thinking of going to school while working so it's 6am-2pm work and 5pm-10pm school

 

Oh and maybe even on Saturday school.

 

So if I do this, I would be reliant on pug groups for my weekly clears. But most pugs don't want to see a necromancer in their group. So, I'm not allowed to do pve endgame with my favourite class.

Yes someone is always last. But if it's like:

33k DPS best and 31k worst class, that would be fine. Even if there's one class doing 36k it would be fine. But guess what, necro DPS is even behind the DPS of a support warrior while not bringing any buffs or needed mechanics to the team.

 

 

[Obtena.7952]

Wait a minute ... ACTAULLY got a team as a necro? ... wow. :scream: How much did you pay them?

 

So what you are saying is that Anet should change the game, give Necros a whack of DPS ... because people are busy IRL and can't think of any solution to their problem of joining meta PUGs with Necro. I'm sure they are RIGHT on it. :wink:

[kasoki.5180]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> Wait a minute ... ACTAULLY got a team as a necro? ... wow. :scream: How much did you pay them?

>

> So what you are saying is that Anet should change the game, give Necros a whack of DPS ... because people are busy IRL and can't think of any solution to their problem of joining meta PUGs with Necro. I'm sure they are RIGHT on it. :wink:

 

If one profession has a problem that disproportionately effects it compared to other professions, than yes, ANET should fix it and its reasonable to expect them to fix it

 

[Swamurabi.7890]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> Wait a minute ... ACTAULLY got a team as a necro? ... wow. :scream: How much did you pay them?

>

> So what you are saying is that Anet should change the game, give Necros a whack of DPS ... because people are busy IRL and can't think of any solution to their problem of joining meta PUGs with Necro. I'm sure they are RIGHT on it. :wink:

 

I think that there are three choices, each designed to make Necros less likely to be descriminated against in PUG raids.

 

1. Increase DPS, but that goes against your arguement of DPS boosts for Necro for DPS sake.

2. Increase Necro support, but that goes against your argument of changing the Necro theme

3. Change raids so that Necro abilities are needed, but you can have a choice of Necro or another class or two.

 

Of course your solutions of Necros choosing better teams, or somehow having some cosmic event that changes the mindset of PUGdom to be kinder to Necros, are both garbage.

 

Which would be the easiest to fix?

[Taqe.1342]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> Wait a minute ... ACTAULLY got a team as a necro? ... wow. :scream: How much did you pay them?

>

> So what you are saying is that Anet should change the game, give Necros a whack of DPS ... because people are busy IRL and can't think of any solution to their problem of joining meta PUGs with Necro. I'm sure they are RIGHT on it. :wink:

 

Dude whats your problem with necros?? ele can have 35k dps and you don't complain about it, but if necro would have 35k dps you are saying it would be "a whack of DPS"? So basicly other professions have "whack of DPS" and you don't care but if necro would have that, thats a no no? even if necro would have "whack of DPS" like ele, ppl would still prefer ele, yet necro is at the bottom and you are here to make sure it stays that way.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"kasoki.5180" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > Wait a minute ... ACTAULLY got a team as a necro? ... wow. :scream: How much did you pay them?

> >

> > So what you are saying is that Anet should change the game, give Necros a whack of DPS ... because people are busy IRL and can't think of any solution to their problem of joining meta PUGs with Necro. I'm sure they are RIGHT on it. :wink:

>

> If one profession has a problem that disproportionately effects it compared to other professions, than yes, ANET should fix it and its reasonable to expect them to fix it

>

 

Way to come into the party at the end. Maybe people should just make the right choices if they insist on join Meta PUGs in the first place. The solution already exists.

 

> @"Taqe.1342" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > Wait a minute ... ACTAULLY got a team as a necro? ... wow. :scream: How much did you pay them?

> >

> > So what you are saying is that Anet should change the game, give Necros a whack of DPS ... because people are busy IRL and can't think of any solution to their problem of joining meta PUGs with Necro. I'm sure they are RIGHT on it. :wink:

>

> Dude whats your problem with necros?? ele can have 35k dps and you don't complain about it, but if necro would have 35k dps you are saying it would be "a whack of DPS"? So basicly other professions have "whack of DPS" and you don't care but if necro would have that, thats a no no? even if necro would have "whack of DPS" like ele, ppl would still prefer ele, yet necro is at the bottom and you are here to make sure it stays that way.

 

I don't have a problem with necros ... I've figured out how to not make this DPS thing a crutch that prevents me from getting teams.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Swamurabi.7890" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > Wait a minute ... ACTAULLY got a team as a necro? ... wow. :scream: How much did you pay them?

> >

> > So what you are saying is that Anet should change the game, give Necros a whack of DPS ... because people are busy IRL and can't think of any solution to their problem of joining meta PUGs with Necro. I'm sure they are RIGHT on it. :wink:

>

> I think that there are three choices, each designed to make Necros less likely to be descriminated against in PUG raids.

>

> 1. Increase DPS, but that goes against your arguement of DPS boosts for Necro for DPS sake.

> 2. Increase Necro support, but that goes against your argument of changing the Necro theme

> 3. Change raids so that Necro abilities are needed, but you can have a choice of Necro or another class or two.

>

> Of course your solutions of Necros choosing better teams, or somehow having some cosmic event that changes the mindset of PUGdom to be kinder to Necros, are both garbage.

>

> Which would be the easiest to fix?

 

None of those are easier to fix than people just making better choices, but you think that's garbage so I guess you can continue to wax academic about how all these changes are coming to benefit Necros that want to join Meta PUGs.

[Swamurabi.7890]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Swamurabi.7890" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > Wait a minute ... ACTAULLY got a team as a necro? ... wow. :scream: How much did you pay them?

> > >

> > > So what you are saying is that Anet should change the game, give Necros a whack of DPS ... because people are busy IRL and can't think of any solution to their problem of joining meta PUGs with Necro. I'm sure they are RIGHT on it. :wink:

> >

> > I think that there are three choices, each designed to make Necros less likely to be descriminated against in PUG raids.

> >

> > 1. Increase DPS, but that goes against your arguement of DPS boosts for Necro for DPS sake.

> > 2. Increase Necro support, but that goes against your argument of changing the Necro theme

> > 3. Change raids so that Necro abilities are needed, but you can have a choice of Necro or another class or two.

> >

> > Of course your solutions of Necros choosing better teams, or somehow having some cosmic event that changes the mindset of PUGdom to be kinder to Necros, are both garbage.

> >

> > Which would be the easiest to fix?

>

> None of those are easier to fix than people just making better choices, but you think that's garbage so I guess you can continue to wax academic about how all these changes are coming to benefit Necros that want to join Meta PUGs.

 

Telling the discriminated that it's their own fault for being discriminated against isn't the way to win an argument.

 

You should probably make the right choice and stop "contributing" to the Necro forums.

 

 

[Bloadsoaked.6792]

I think the chance that balance changes are executed in the way u want is small. Fast and easy option: roll the class thats on top, playing a little pvp u have soooo many knowledge books, just roll a better fitting class.

[Barnabus Stinson.1409]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> Wait a minute ... ACTAULLY got a team as a necro? ... wow. :scream: How much did you pay them?

>

> So what you are saying is that Anet should change the game, give Necros a whack of DPS ... because people are busy IRL and can't think of any solution to their problem of joining meta PUGs with Necro. I'm sure they are RIGHT on it. :wink:

 

Yeah they should, Necro should be given competitive dps as it provides nothing else. And expecting people to either wait long amounts of time or swap to a Anet loved class (mesmer) is bad game practice.

 

Now can you please return to the Mesmer sub forum and stop trolling here.

[Agrippa Oculus.3726]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Ceit.7619" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said

> > >

> > > I never claimed I do know what Anet's ideas for balance are or should be. My position is simply based on observations that ares consistent from the 6 years of this game existing and other things Anet has done that indicate balance as Anet does it is **definitely** not what you and others think it should be.

> >

> > For someone who has no idea what Anet's position is, you're defending it pretty hardcore.

>

> Because it's easy to observe the game for 6 years and and see how they behave .. .consistently. As in ... consistently not balancing to meta DPS. You don't need to know what Anet's position is to see how they do things ... and not do things. Do you have any observations that make you think they ARE balancing to Meta DPS levels after 6 years of basically not being meta DPS balanced? I would love to hear what those observations are, because I don't see them. I'm all open ears here ....

 

Well, one thing is for sure, you are one of the most INconsistent persons on this forum. I mean, _this_ exact post would do really well in [this](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/36834/epidemic-in-raids-needs-to-be-nerfed) thread a month ago. But no, that would've actually helped the Necro community, so why would you? Right?

Obviously we now know the result: ANet nerfed Epi into the ground, so it cannot perform on META DPS levels anymore. Hmmm, need more proof that they _do_ balance to meta dps levels? Because there's a LOT of it! Also, don't forget, Epi-bounce was always a thread, but it was now hitting META levels (meta community adopting it on a wide scale) ... and all of the sudden ANet decides to nerf it???? What an incredible coincidence, don't you think?

But if more people like you would've been a LITTLE bit more consistent, then ANet who claims to listen to their community, would've maybe _not_ completely killed Epi(-bounce). The Necro would actually still be META right now in at least _a couple_ of raids!

 

Thanks for your incredible consistency, Obtena. My advice: look in the mirror every now and then!

[Ceit.7619]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

>

> Because it's easy to observe the game for 6 years and and see how they behave .. .consistently. As in ... consistently not balancing to meta DPS. You don't need to know what Anet's position is to see how they do things ... and not do things. Do you have any observations that make you think they ARE balancing to Meta DPS levels after 6 years of basically not being meta DPS balanced? I would love to hear what those observations are, because I don't see them. I'm all open ears here ....

 

 

lol, Sure. Let's just look at the most recent balance patch, shall we? Do pay attention.

 

--

 

Elementalist:

 

The change to Meteor Shower in the previous update, which limited the maximum damage on a single target, is being extended to other similar skills in this update. This change is aimed at normalizing the damage that elementalists do between small and large targets with these types of skills. In general, elementalists will see increased damage up front with less damage over a longer period. In addition to these changes, we've also increased some of the damage of the weaver's sword skill, which we felt wasn't doing enough for the close-range risk that it carried.

 

--

 

The only reason to be concerned about the difference between small and large targets is the raid community. This entire balance patch for elementalist was targetted at Raid Meta dps, both in reducing the effectiveness of aoe damage on single targets, and improving sword dps in the same environment.

 

--

 

Engineer:

 

Core engineer gameplay has had a complex condition-damage rotation for a long time, which paid off with solid damage output. That has fallen off in part due to condition damage tweaks over time and other condition builds eclipsing it by nature of their simplicity. We're adding damage to some core skills, which we hope will entice engineers to take another look at them. Alongside those changes, Thermal Vision, which was the dominant damage option in its tier, has been reworked to offer a better variety of options. Finally, a few elixirs have been updated to remove their random boon, instead granting reduced amounts of all potential boons so that they're more reliable and can be used more intelligently.

 

--

 

First couple of sentences extremely relevant here. Core engineer has a complex rotation, solid damage output. They are literally describing their dps potential (See: Meta dps) and how that dps potetnial has fallen off due to tweaks over time and other condition builds doing better than it (See: It's meta DPS in relation to OTHER'S meta DPS). They then add damage to core skills, hoping to entice engineers to take another look at them (See: Wanting to make a class more viable as a dps option, which is exactly what Necromancer is asking for here)

 

--

 

Mesmer:

 

Mesmers have been doing a little too well in recent updates, with increased damage across the board due to the confusion changes, as well as unparalleled support from boon share on top of multiple evasion windows. While we think these are good thematic roles for mesmers to have, their overall effectiveness is too high, so we are taking steps to rein in some of that extra power.

 

--

 

This entire section is all about Mesmer's are doing too much dps for everything else they offered, so we nerfed their damage potential (See: Meta dps).

 

--

 

Necromancer:

 

We're making a major change to Epidemic in this update to curb the ability of multiple necromancers to chain conditions indefinitely. While the point of the skill is to spread conditions, we didn't feel that one skill should have so much multiplicative power. Following up on the underwater balance release, we've updated some skills to enable their use underwater, and we've taught the flesh golem (flesh shark?) how to swim.

 

--

 

The ability of multiple necromancers to chain conditions indefinitely (See: Meta dps tactic), hence nerfing the skill so that it would not be able to be used as it is currently, even though this skill has behaved in this manner for it's entire existence (Other than changing it to projectile-based). This was directly a nerf targetted toward Raids and the Meta DPS.

 

--

 

Ranger:

 

Soulbeasts were not performing quite where we wanted them to be, so we're eliminating the difference between bonuses granted to ranger pets and rangers on a few traits in the Beastmastery line. A few ranger pets were continuing to overperform, so those have had their power knocked down. Lastly, after some significant revisiting, a few additional skills have also been added to underwater play.

 

--

 

Once again, they are listing how the class is not performing where they want them to, and any indication of performance is a direct reference to their placement in the meta.

 

Your argument seems to hinge on the fact that Anet doesn't explicitly use the words 'Meta dps', but that is just a ridiculous requirement when Meta is just a reference to their performance potential, and every major content update has multiple balance changes that are aimed to changing the full performance of a class.

[Taqe.1342]

So anet stance of what they think of necro and "what his place is" that it should be bottom at everything, we can all reroll another profession or quit. Close necro section on the forum... " not performing quite where we wanted them to be ". It is clear anet balance pve around raids, they look at necro, not good at anything?

"excatly where we want it to be... btw we buffed gravedigger to do 10% more dmg after 50% health so you can safely spam one skill for the rest of the fight, using any other skill will decrease your already weak dps, it puts necro where we wanted " xD

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Ceit.7619" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> >

> > Because it's easy to observe the game for 6 years and and see how they behave .. .consistently. As in ... consistently not balancing to meta DPS. You don't need to know what Anet's position is to see how they do things ... and not do things. Do you have any observations that make you think they ARE balancing to Meta DPS levels after 6 years of basically not being meta DPS balanced? I would love to hear what those observations are, because I don't see them. I'm all open ears here ....

>

>

> lol, Sure. Let's just look at the most recent balance patch, shall we? Do pay attention.

 

Or how about we look at ALL the balance patches we have had and conclude Anet doesn't balance to Meta DPS levels. Sounds more realistic.

 

> @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Ceit.7619" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said

> > > >

> > > > I never claimed I do know what Anet's ideas for balance are or should be. My position is simply based on observations that ares consistent from the 6 years of this game existing and other things Anet has done that indicate balance as Anet does it is **definitely** not what you and others think it should be.

> > >

> > > For someone who has no idea what Anet's position is, you're defending it pretty hardcore.

> >

> > Because it's easy to observe the game for 6 years and and see how they behave .. .consistently. As in ... consistently not balancing to meta DPS. You don't need to know what Anet's position is to see how they do things ... and not do things. Do you have any observations that make you think they ARE balancing to Meta DPS levels after 6 years of basically not being meta DPS balanced? I would love to hear what those observations are, because I don't see them. I'm all open ears here ....

>

> Well, one thing is for sure, you are one of the most INconsistent persons on this forum. I mean, _this_ exact post would do really well in [this](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/36834/epidemic-in-raids-needs-to-be-nerfed) thread a month ago. But no, that would've actually helped the Necro community, so why would you? Right?

 

So I'm inconsistent because I don't post in EVERY thread you see fit? Awesome. I still don't see Anet balancing to Meta DPS and I got lots of reasons for why I think they don't. Not sure what your angle is on claiming I'm inconsistent there but I'm sure you have some great reasons for staying on track with the discussion and posting it.

 

 

[Ceit.7619]

Obtena, you are officially a troll. You asked for proof, I gave you obvious, point by point proof and you responded to NONE of it. How far back would you like me to go onto balance patches to prove you incorrect? And would it even matter considering the most recent balance notes include meta-dps balance and thus, would be a sign of their current desire to balance meta dps? 6 years ago Raids didn't exist, so there was no reason to consider balancing for raid-endgame before it existed. Ever since HoT came out, we have had significant balance patches targetted at the raid meta. I could pull up other balance patches in the past that had the same exact reasoning listed next to it, but why should I go through the effort when you doggedly believe what you want despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.