3 more months at being at bottom of benchmark

[Ceit.7619]

Here you go with this 6 years stuff again. They couldn't have possibly been balancing toward raid meta BEFORE IT EXISTED. The very first raid was released November 17th, 2015. Any balance patches before this date are completely irrelevant to bring up or discuss. The discussion is less than 3 years old, and yet you keep citing the lifetime of the game in your 'points' which have no facts or quotes backing them up. I didn't cherry pick 'one' balance patch, I used the last one where they explicitly state in multiple different places that they ARE balancing in regards to the raid meta. The last one is the most relevant because it reflects their current goals of balance and it stands to reason that given how most other classes got changes in regard to their meta dps balance, someone just screwed up necromancer balance. Mistakes happen.

 

You can literally go back to EVERY balance patch and find things like this. How about instead of asking me to do the work for you, YOU go look at the actual balance patches and see how wrong you are. Every time they mention 'performance', realize this is talking about meta, because that is all 'meta' means, the best performing at a given function.

 

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Ceit.7619" said:

> Here you go with this 6 years stuff again. They couldn't have possibly been balancing toward raid meta BEFORE IT EXISTED.

 

There were balancing issues that affected instanced group content way before Raids existed. The discussion is definitely NOT just 3 years old.

 

Again, I would love to understand what your version of balance is. Clearly you think we are 'getting there' ... but I can count and see the range of Meta DPS values on the websites. I don't see it.

 

 

[Ceit.7619]

This. topic. Is. About. Raids. If you want to have a different discussion not involving raids and necromancer's current non-placement in the raid meta, then make your own thread. Currently you are only derailing a thread that is about Necromancers non-placement in raids and their poor balance around their raid dps. Derailing a thread is a report offense.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Ceit.7619" said:

> This. topic. Is. About. Raids. If you want to have a different discussion not involving raids and necromancer's current non-placement in the raid meta, then make your own thread. Currently you are only derailing a thread that is about Necromancers non-placement in raids and their poor balance around their raid dps. Derailing a thread is a report offense.

 

Yup, and that's the same discussion that's been happening since instanced group content has existed in this game. The discussion about necro's not being meta is WAY older than since raids has existed (and the irony is that until just a few weeks ago, it's the SAME classes that tended to dominate the Meta, even from that far back). The reason Anet didn't balance to Meta DPS now for raids is the SAME reason they didn't balance for Meta DPS back then for dungeons. The game isn't designed to need to play meta.

 

 

[Ceit.7619]

The discussion of raid dps has been happening since before raids existed? I think you've proven just how much of a troll you are being, and for that, I thank you.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Ceit.7619" said:

> The discussion of raid dps has been happening since before raids existed? I think you've proven just how much of a troll you are being, and for that, I thank you.

 

No problem ... the non-meta status of Necros has been around much longer than you care to acknowledge (or maybe you just aren't aware ... either way) ... and it's clear to me why you are doing it. You case isn't any stronger to balance to meta if you ONLY want to discuss raids and ignore all the history prior to that. It's the SAME discussion, separated only by time. It's the same reasons, the same people on both sides ... it's all the same.

[Ceit.7619]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

>

> No problem ... the non-meta status of Necros has been around much longer than you care to acknowledge ... and it's clear to me why you are doing it. You case isn't any stronger to balance to meta if you ONLY want to discuss raids and ignore all the history prior to that. It's the SAME discussion, separated only by time.

 

Except for the myriad of reasons why it is not. Dungeons were never raids. Dungeons did not have things like enrage timers and dps checks and instant kill mechanics centered around a group's dps. Pretending the two are the same when they clearly not is folly, and in all of your posts, you have never once made a single valid point in your own defense other than your own claimed 'observations'. The environment of the game was much different pre-hot, as there was no such thing as dedicated healers. As such, pre-raids, necromancer had a lower dps because of it's higher sustain. That higher sustain was beneficial because of the way dungeons have been designed. The way raids have been designed, that sustain is irrelevant due to the necessity of healers. Pretending that raids are the same thing as dungeons is just ignorant. Pretending that the introduction of Druids, Chronomancers, fulltime healers did not change the original direction of balance in the game is just ignoring the facts. Arenanet had something in mind when they built the core game, and they threw that design away when they introduced dedicated healers and support specs. You can pretend that isn't so all you like, but you are still derailing the thread with your trolling to do so.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Ceit.7619" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> >

> > No problem ... the non-meta status of Necros has been around much longer than you care to acknowledge ... and it's clear to me why you are doing it. You case isn't any stronger to balance to meta if you ONLY want to discuss raids and ignore all the history prior to that. It's the SAME discussion, separated only by time.

>

> Except for the myriad of reasons why it is not. Dungeons were never raids. Dungeons did not have things like enrage timers and dps checks and instant kill mechanics centered around a group's dps.

 

There was still a meta for dungeons and the problems players faced because of this meta were the same as what you see in Raids. It's the same ideas from players expecting Anet to 'solve' by balancing to some Meta DPS threshold ... which they have NEVER done in all this time. This discussion is literally the SAME discussion that has been going on for years relating Necros to instanced group content.

[Ceit.7619]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

>

> There was still a meta for dungeons and the problems players faced because of this meta were the same as what you see in Raids. It's the same.

 

It's the same, minus all of the many things you willfully ignore. You have addressed none of my points, and for the most part even refuse to quote my points. You have nothing to stand on. Put up or let the people who care about the class talk.

[Obtena.7952]

You're unhappy because I didn't get dragged into a pedantic argument about your points and didn't quote them? That's pretty unfair to be honest; I'm giving you the benefit of explaining what you think balance is. I asked for some **simple** information to understand your POV twice to see where the disparity is between your beliefs and mine ... you balked.

 

What is your idea of 'balance'?

[Ceit.7619]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> You're unhappy because I didn't get dragged into a pedantic argument about your points and didn't quote them? That's pretty unfair to be honest; I'm giving you the benefit of explaining what you think balance is. I asked for some **simple** information to understand your POV twice ... you balked.

>

> What is your idea of 'balance'?

 

You asked me to point out proof in patch notes that they balance toward the meta dps for raids, I did so on a point by point basis and you ignored the entire post. My idea of balance is simple, a pure dps should not have a weaker dps than a support class. Everyone in this post has been explaining what their idea of balance is for the class, and your only argument against all of it is just: Anet doesn't care what you think. Play a different class or quit the game.

[Obtena.7952]

You're right ... I did ignore that post. The fact is that when Anet balances, some classes go up, some classes go down ALL the time. That swing ALONE tells you there isn't some Meta DPS target Anet is trying to get classes to hit .... I mean, Deadeye sucked and Ele reigned supreme ... Anet totally flipped that around. That's not some isolated occurrence here. If THAT is what balancing Meta looks like, then Anet's idea of balancing to Meta is something COMPLETELY different than what players think it is.

 

But you knew that looking at history would illustrate my point rather quickly ... so you restricted yourself to just picking ONE balancing patch. /shrug. That doesn't seem like an honest approach to me. Now you're telling me that the fact that Anet never balanced meta for dungeons and Fractals is irrelevant because they aren't Raids? Sure, whatever you want to believe.

 

#sixmoreyears

 

[Ceit.7619]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> You're right ... I did ignore that post. The fact is that when Anet balances, some classes go up, some classes go down ALL the time. That swing ALONE tells you there isn't some Meta DPS target Anet is trying to get classes to hit ....

>

> But you knew that so you restricted yourself to just picking ONE balancing patch. /shrug.

>

 

Except that they said in the notes themselves that they WERE balancing for the meta dps targets for the classes. They literally said it, and you just refuse to see it because it would make you question your 'observations'.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Ceit.7619" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > You're right ... I did ignore that post. The fact is that when Anet balances, some classes go up, some classes go down ALL the time. That swing ALONE tells you there isn't some Meta DPS target Anet is trying to get classes to hit ....

> >

> > But you knew that so you restricted yourself to just picking ONE balancing patch. /shrug.

> >

>

> Except that they said in the notes themselves that they WERE balancing for the meta dps targets for the classes. They literally said it, and you just refuse to see it because it would make you question your 'observations'.

 

And they did a BANG up job doing it too ....

 

Again, if what we just saw in the last patch was Anet balancing to meta ... then Anet has a WAY different idea of what that is compared to what players think it should be. Maybe you just want to believe what you have heard coming in the future instead of seeing what has been done but if Anet is balancing to meta all this time .... you already KNOW what to expect for their meta DPS balancing. You're already getting it; we are already there. It's not like this is the first balance patch we have ever seen since raids were released ... but I guess they are moving towards it, REALLY slowly.

 

... or maybe 8 more years? I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Ceit.7619]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

>

> And they did a BANG up job doing it too ....

>

> Again, if what we just saw in the last patch was Anet balancing to meta ... then Anet has a WAY different idea of what that is compared to what players think it should be.

>

> ... or maybe 8 more years? I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

And because it was such a bad balance patch for one class in particular, that is why we are in this thread trying to draw attention to that disparity, while you try to derail the conversation. See the problem?

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Ceit.7619" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> >

> > And they did a BANG up job doing it too ....

> >

> > Again, if what we just saw in the last patch was Anet balancing to meta ... then Anet has a WAY different idea of what that is compared to what players think it should be.

> >

> > ... or maybe 8 more years? I wouldn't hold my breath.

>

> And because it was such a bad balance patch for one class in particular, that is why we are in this thread trying to draw attention to that disparity, while you try to derail the conversation. See the problem?

 

You think **this** was the only bad balance patch for just one class in particular just one time in all the balance patches we have had? I don't that's an objective assessment of this patch at all. If anything, this patch was par for the course. It's almost every patch where we get these wild swings in who's on top and who's headed for the bottom. Put it another way ... we get LOTS of 'bad' patches ... so many that you could conclude they don't balance to the players idea of what Meta DPS is.

 

No, frankly I don't see the problem because there isn't actually anything exceptional about what we saw in this patch at all. Some class got a big nerf, some class got a big boost. Some classes got some weird changes no one know why. Standard from what I have seen. That's why I think you guys are completely off base with your ideas about what Anet should be doing. History is a REALLY good indicator to us about how Anet does things ... and it's not some picture of classes converging to a range of Meta DPS. Anet is very consistent with the wild swings and seemingly inexplicable changes we see sometimes.

 

Honestly, i don't get your conclusions; if Anet says they are balancing to Meta DPS standard, they are either 1) doing it so slowly and erratically you wouldn't even know it was happening or 2) they have a completely different view than players of what that Meta DPS standard balancing looks like. Regardless of the reason, I would expect some kind of balancing to whatever standard to appear like a convergence of DPS to a target ... and we haven't seen ANYTHING like this. SO how anyone can come to the conclusion it's happening, I can only think it's because they wish for it so badly they don't want to believe it's not happening.

[Ceit.7619]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

>

> You think **this** was the only bad balance patch for just one class in particular just one time in all the balance patches we have had? I don't that's an objective assessment of this patch at all. If anything, this patch was par for the course. It's almost every patch where we get these wild swings in who's on top and who's headed for the bottom. Put it another way ... we get LOTS of 'bad' patches ... so many that you could conclude they don't balance to the players idea of what Meta DPS is.

 

 

Anet hasn't really had as many 'wild swings' as you are suggesting. Elementalist has always been at the top and this has only changed recently in minor ways. We also don't really have wild swings as to who is at the bottom, it's basically always necromancer. The thing about that though, is that while necromancer is almost always at the bottom, it usually it's so far at the bottom that it is auto-kicked for how ineffective it is. They made a mistake. The purpose of feedback forums is to communicate that to them, primarily because I am of the opinion that there is just no balance developer who really cares about this class. Doesn't mean they don't want it balanced, but it's more likely that it is avoided because everyone on that side knows that necromancer needs a rework.

 

> No, frankly I don't see the problem because there isn't actually anything exceptional about what we saw in this patch at all. Some class got a big nerf, some class got a big boost. Some classes got some weird changes no one know why. Standard from what I have seen. That's why I think you guys are completely off base with your ideas about what Anet should be doing. History is a REALLY good indicator to us about how Anet does things ... and it's not some picture of classes converging to a range of Meta DPS. Anet is very consistent with the wild swings and seemingly inexplicable changes we see sometimes.

>

 

You failed to grasp what I was pointing at, first of all. The problem I was pointing at was you, and your commentary that is serving to do nothing but confuse the issue and instigate a lack of conversation on balance. As for the rest of your comment here, like I listed far above, they literally describe how they are tweaking individual classes meta dps, and in one case (engineer) fixing their dps for the sole purpose of it being competitive to more current builds. You say one thing is true, but anet is saying the opposite. All the necromancer community is asking for is the same treatment that they have given other classes.

 

> Honestly, i don't get your conclusions; if Anet says they are balancing to Meta DPS standard, they are either 1) doing it so slowly and erratically you wouldn't even know it was happening or 2) they have a completely different view than players of what that Meta DPS standard balancing looks like. Regardless of the reason, I would expect some kind of balancing to whatever standard to appear like a convergence of DPS to a target ... and we haven't seen ANYTHING like this. SO how anyone can come to the conclusion it's happening, I can only think it's because they wish for it so badly they don't want to believe it's not happening.

 

Like I said above, and a few times before, I think they just don't have a balance developer who cares about this class, or they are just unconcerned with fixing necromancer's issues because they know it requires a rework. Most of their standards for dps has been pretty straightforward. The biggest 'change' in a long time is the thief relevance, which most people agree has been long over-due in pve. That aside, the other classes have not significantly changed because they have actively balanced with performance in mind. Elementalist has spent most of these 3 years on top. Chrono and Druid are unshakable to the meta in terms of support, while also having viable dps specs. Many people have said it before, and I'll say it again, there is no reason that a full dps necromancer should be 15% below the next best dps, or equal/less than support warriors. It's not good balance for a class to be that horrible, and it is valid to complain about it and make suggestions on how to fix it. I suspect necromancer will always be at the bottom of the dps meta due to an outdated notion that they are 'easier' and 'tankier' than the other classes, but there is a difference between being at the bottom of the barrel, and being thrown out of the barrel altogether.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Ceit.7619" said:

> This. topic. Is. About. Raids. If you want to have a different discussion not involving raids and necromancer's current non-placement in the raid meta, then make your own thread. Currently you are only derailing a thread that is about Necromancers non-placement in raids and their poor balance around their raid dps. Derailing a thread is a report offense.

 

Why do you keep discussing with this troll?

Just ignore it.

[Catchyfx.5768]

I just wonder around what is Necro beign good? If its not DPS what then? Sure not tankiness, or healer. In PvE its sure necro isnt best in boon hate(only if you take well, but chrono is same good). So tell me around what you make Necro viable...pay for run? :D

Most recent builds are top DPS(Subpar in general) and some support(Subpar in general).

[Axl.8924]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> You're right ... I did ignore that post. The fact is that when Anet balances, some classes go up, some classes go down ALL the time. That swing ALONE tells you there isn't some Meta DPS target Anet is trying to get classes to hit .... I mean, Deadeye sucked and Ele reigned supreme ... Anet totally flipped that around. That's not some isolated occurrence here. If THAT is what balancing Meta looks like, then Anet's idea of balancing to Meta is something COMPLETELY different than what players think it is.

>

> But you knew that looking at history would illustrate my point rather quickly ... so you restricted yourself to just picking ONE balancing patch. /shrug. That doesn't seem like an honest approach to me. Now you're telling me that the fact that Anet never balanced meta for dungeons and Fractals is irrelevant because they aren't Raids? Sure, whatever you want to believe.

>

> #sixmoreyears

>

 

Difference is this isn't something new, necro was bottom tier as well in hot last year, but you cannot compare dungeons and fractals to raids, as raid bosses don't have boons to corrupt, and dots on players.

 

Dungeons are barely anything noticeable these days, because everyone is so overpowered compared to when they were introduced that we can easily do them with almost any build.Anet isn't balancing for just dungeons anymore its more focused on raid and high tier fractals and viability in spvp and WVW.

 

I think its wrong to leave necros at the bottom for so long, and maybe its time to put someone else there and let necro have a rest.Maybe its time mesmers get their chance? or ele? i mean they are always at the top.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > You're right ... I did ignore that post. The fact is that when Anet balances, some classes go up, some classes go down ALL the time. That swing ALONE tells you there isn't some Meta DPS target Anet is trying to get classes to hit .... I mean, Deadeye sucked and Ele reigned supreme ... Anet totally flipped that around. That's not some isolated occurrence here. If THAT is what balancing Meta looks like, then Anet's idea of balancing to Meta is something COMPLETELY different than what players think it is.

> >

> > But you knew that looking at history would illustrate my point rather quickly ... so you restricted yourself to just picking ONE balancing patch. /shrug. That doesn't seem like an honest approach to me. Now you're telling me that the fact that Anet never balanced meta for dungeons and Fractals is irrelevant because they aren't Raids? Sure, whatever you want to believe.

> >

> > #sixmoreyears

> >

>

> Difference is this isn't something new, necro was bottom tier as well in hot last year, but you cannot compare dungeons and fractals to raids, as raid bosses don't have boons to corrupt, and dots on players.

>

> Dungeons are barely anything noticeable these days, because everyone is so overpowered compared to when they were introduced that we can easily do them with almost any build.Anet isn't balancing for just dungeons anymore its more focused on raid and high tier fractals and viability in spvp and WVW.

>

> I think its wrong to leave necros at the bottom for so long, and maybe its time to put someone else there and let necro have a rest.Maybe its time mesmers get their chance? or ele? i mean they are always at the top.

 

Nobody is comparing those things at all. It illustrates the continuing lack of Meta DPS balance that has existed in this game since the beginning, regardless of what particular kind of instanced group content is the flavour of the day. This goes directly to my point ... Anet doesn't balance to a meta DPS standard because if they did, we would either 1) be LOTS closer to it than we are now (to the point where we could recognize it) or 2) their idea of what meta DPS balanced is differs significantly from how players think it should be.

 

 

[Axl.8924]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > You're right ... I did ignore that post. The fact is that when Anet balances, some classes go up, some classes go down ALL the time. That swing ALONE tells you there isn't some Meta DPS target Anet is trying to get classes to hit .... I mean, Deadeye sucked and Ele reigned supreme ... Anet totally flipped that around. That's not some isolated occurrence here. If THAT is what balancing Meta looks like, then Anet's idea of balancing to Meta is something COMPLETELY different than what players think it is.

> > >

> > > But you knew that looking at history would illustrate my point rather quickly ... so you restricted yourself to just picking ONE balancing patch. /shrug. That doesn't seem like an honest approach to me. Now you're telling me that the fact that Anet never balanced meta for dungeons and Fractals is irrelevant because they aren't Raids? Sure, whatever you want to believe.

> > >

> > > #sixmoreyears

> > >

> >

> > Difference is this isn't something new, necro was bottom tier as well in hot last year, but you cannot compare dungeons and fractals to raids, as raid bosses don't have boons to corrupt, and dots on players.

> >

> > Dungeons are barely anything noticeable these days, because everyone is so overpowered compared to when they were introduced that we can easily do them with almost any build.Anet isn't balancing for just dungeons anymore its more focused on raid and high tier fractals and viability in spvp and WVW.

> >

> > I think its wrong to leave necros at the bottom for so long, and maybe its time to put someone else there and let necro have a rest.Maybe its time mesmers get their chance? or ele? i mean they are always at the top.

>

> Nobody is comparing those things at all. It illustrates the continuing lack of Meta DPS balance that has existed in this game since the beginning, regardless of what particular kind of instanced group content is the flavour of the day. This goes directly to my point ... Anet doesn't balance to a meta DPS standard because if they did, we would either 1) be LOTS closer to it than we are now (to the point where we could recognize it) or 2) their idea of what meta DPS balanced is differs significantly from how players think it should be.

 

But perhaps we are, i mean eles were seen as overpowered and got nerfed no?

 

Also Why do you think reaper was getting buffed? The underlying issues are not just mechanical failures on Anet's part that leads to something being overpowered, but the inability to separate pvp and pve and WVW builds, and causing mass nerf that guts pve builds.

 

They are trying but its hard.

 

Thats not just necros either, because mesmers are getting hit with some nerfs in some areas too.

 

Also there is a lot of whining about other classes and some people don't understand how the class functions.Some think scourge can go into reaper mode and get double life bar, and thats just not the case, and this is a very big problem.

 

 

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

Question: why should a faceroll, easy peasy class like necro even do comparable damage output than other, harder to play classes?

 

And if necro is bad, why does every wvw com want as many scourges as possible, but not eles or revs?

 

Think about that for a moment.

 

Necros are not underperforming at all. For such an easy, high health class, with a ridiculously easy rotation, tons of cleans, they are completely OP.

[Axl.8924]

Because we got things like delays and other kind of things in place that harm necros viability and thats WVW and there are far less in spvp and also the main issue is pve not wvw.

 

Why should a class like mesmer dominate all 3 things and be overpowered? they got 1 shot builds that are op and dominate.Everyone has something and necros aren't really dominating as much also keep in mind that we are talking about pve.PVP and wvw has its issues, but you cannot nerf a class in pve due to pvp stuff without massive repercussions and outcries and outrages.

 

Balance is seriously messed up and some classes are dominating all roles like mesmer with buffs and dps and condi dps and aoe dps and small target dps while others like necro are so weak in each category for pve they get autokicked.

 

Most necros here are sencere about what they want, they just want to be competitive in dps, and have at the very least a 32k ish dps or around that number, so they can be competing rather than be outdpsed even by a warrior whos gone support.

 

I don't want necros to insta kill everyone and be god i want to have fun with a class and not be autokicked and feel bad because i have to literally be carried.

 

All this does in having necros underpowered in dps and all sorts of things, is encourage people to class bias and bigotry to classes who aren't the popular ones.

 

 

 

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > You're right ... I did ignore that post. The fact is that when Anet balances, some classes go up, some classes go down ALL the time. That swing ALONE tells you there isn't some Meta DPS target Anet is trying to get classes to hit .... I mean, Deadeye sucked and Ele reigned supreme ... Anet totally flipped that around. That's not some isolated occurrence here. If THAT is what balancing Meta looks like, then Anet's idea of balancing to Meta is something COMPLETELY different than what players think it is.

> > > >

> > > > But you knew that looking at history would illustrate my point rather quickly ... so you restricted yourself to just picking ONE balancing patch. /shrug. That doesn't seem like an honest approach to me. Now you're telling me that the fact that Anet never balanced meta for dungeons and Fractals is irrelevant because they aren't Raids? Sure, whatever you want to believe.

> > > >

> > > > #sixmoreyears

> > > >

> > >

> > > Difference is this isn't something new, necro was bottom tier as well in hot last year, but you cannot compare dungeons and fractals to raids, as raid bosses don't have boons to corrupt, and dots on players.

> > >

> > > Dungeons are barely anything noticeable these days, because everyone is so overpowered compared to when they were introduced that we can easily do them with almost any build.Anet isn't balancing for just dungeons anymore its more focused on raid and high tier fractals and viability in spvp and WVW.

> > >

> > > I think its wrong to leave necros at the bottom for so long, and maybe its time to put someone else there and let necro have a rest.Maybe its time mesmers get their chance? or ele? i mean they are always at the top.

> >

> > Nobody is comparing those things at all. It illustrates the continuing lack of Meta DPS balance that has existed in this game since the beginning, regardless of what particular kind of instanced group content is the flavour of the day. This goes directly to my point ... Anet doesn't balance to a meta DPS standard because if they did, we would either 1) be LOTS closer to it than we are now (to the point where we could recognize it) or 2) their idea of what meta DPS balanced is differs significantly from how players think it should be.

>

> But perhaps we are, i mean eles were seen as overpowered and got nerfed no?

 

Nerfs/Buffs does not necessarily mean Meta DPS balancing. If I was to think there was some concentrated effort for Anet to do that, we would see a much more significant convergence to some common level of DPS for all classes. That's not what we see with the balance patches. The Weaver Condi build is still higher than average and the Deadeye builds went from complete garbage to top of the class. That's not balancing to some Meta DPS standard at all ... it's almost like Anet are guessing to hit this target.

>

> Also Why do you think reaper was getting buffed? The underlying issues are not just mechanical failures on Anet's part that leads to something being overpowered, but the inability to separate pvp and pve and WVW builds, and causing mass nerf that guts pve builds.

 

There could be lots of reasons Reaper got buffed ... and it's REALLY hard for me to think it's because of Meta DPS ... because Reaper didn't get anywhere NEAR the average Meta DPS output with those buffs.

>

> They are trying but its hard.

 

This I can't believe either. It's hard to determine how much any particular build needs to hit some threshold in DPS and how to give it to a class? It's pretty basic level math if you ask me. The average Meta DPS output is around 32000 ... necro builds are 28000. They need 12.% more DPS on the Snowcrow build to get in the ballpark. That's not hard to do .... Anet has been adding percentage DPS increase to Axe skills for almost 3 years now ... They know how to do such a thing.

>

> Thats not just necros either, because mesmers are getting hit with some nerfs in some areas too.

>

 

That's right ... it's not just necros. That's why I find it really hard to think Anet balances according to some Meta DPS standard. The direction and size of the DPS changes Anet makes just doesn't make sense if you believe they are targeting some Meta DPS standard.