What exactly do you guys want?

[Urejt.5648]

iam happy with changes. Deadeye finelly found its place and its good!

[Kageseigi.2150]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> If a team doesn't have a thief, then in order to win that team needs to be able to consistently outplay the opposing team in equal number fights. Assuming outplay is a unreliable strat, which is where thief comes in. Thief allows a team to make sure every fight in unfair in their favor which means they don't need to rely on outplay they just have to be good enough to stall until the thief comes in, which given how fast thief rotates won't take long.

>

> Winning fights is a lot easier when the deck is stacked in your favor.

 

There are two issues I have with this argument...

 

1. The Thief being THE +1/decap profession is outdated. It no longer has the monopoly of supreme mobility. It may have the best constant vertical mobility, but it does not take a constant mobility to decap empty points or to get to fights. It's a sprint, not a marathon. Skills cooldown during decap/cap. Also, the Thief does not bring nearly the fighting potential to a +1 that others bring. Sure, in most cases, a Thief may bring enough damage to quickly down the outnumbered opponent(s), but in many cases, other professions may be more ideal due to the opponent's build even if slightly slower

2. The deck is never stacked in the favor of the Thief's team by default. It is stacked against it. By default, it is a 5v4.5. In order to create the advantage, the other team MUST allow it. If the opposing team has a Mesmer with a portal or a long-range, mobile build that can provide support at Mid while still keeping their Home protected from decap, the Thief is extremely limited in what it can do. The Thief is ALWAYS reliant on its team's fighting capabilities as well as both its team's and the opposing team's rotations. If its team can fight well enough to gain an advantage, then the Thief can help increase that advantage. But if the opposing team gains the advantage, then a Thief is even more limited in what it can do.

 

 

> Avoiding a attack is a type of mitigation.

 

Indirectly, yes. I can also say that running away and hiding in a corner is the best form of mitigation in the game. Unfortunately, it's not effective in a match. Stealth is great, but you can only hit one time from it, then you are vulnerable. Teleporting in and out is great, but you can't apply melee pressure if you're at range. Dodging works, but the Core Thief only has two, just like everybody else. Evades are great, but only certain weapon sets have them. Blinds work, but are limited to specific weapons. Interrupts are effective, but once again, they are limited to certain weapon.

 

Again, the Thief may be able to avoid damage, but it cannot apply enough pressure while doing so. That is unlike Protection or invulnerabilities or high health pools or high armor ratings. And while active defenses are much preferred over passive defenses, offense in this game is so passive (tracking projectiles, AoE, fire and forget conditions), that passive defenses are much, much more effective... especially when you take latency into account.

 

If the Thief dealt more damage than other professions, then relying on avoidance would be understandable. If the Thief could punch straight through Protection or invulnerabilities, it would be a different matter. If the Thief could perform a [21.9k Worldly Impact](https://clips.twitch.tv/CautiousAlertSharkCopyThis) through Protection from Stealth with absolutely no tell, then avoidance would be just fine.

 

The bottom line is that the balance between sustainability and lethality is out of balance for the Thief in sPvP. It can work in WvW, but not in sPvP.

[babazhook.6805]

>Tbh I don't think anyone had an issue with Malice interacting with other kits. It's just DE's Mark has no interaction with other kits but Rifle, and a little bit of OH pistol. And it's still largely the case.

 

Don't get this point at all . How do you mean DE Mark does not Interact with any kit but rifle?

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

Would like an explanation of the blinding powder change.

[mikeeens.3542]

Im also enjoying the game.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

I'll be honest, I don't play PvP as rather than things being more balanced there I feel like thief is disproportionately punished through lack of stats. As others have said, the whole +1 argument only works in a game where things like mirage and holo don't exist, since they have comparable mobility in a decap but considerably better team fight potential. I don't enjoy the way thief feels in PvP and frankly the game mode is stale after 5 years so I don't play it.

 

What I meant by more interaction with malice is that every set now has built in stealth through the stolen item, so M7 is no longer just useful for sets with stealth on the bar. Add improv and the adept trait that gives a new stolen item on cantrip use and you shouldn't have too many problems getting the boons and ini on max malice regularly.

 

Just getting up and ready for work so will reply to other stuff later.

[Vornollo.5182]

Actually, I'm quite fine with the position of Thief across all gamemodes and by extension, also with all other classes.

Only thing in the game that genuinely bothers me for now is the ridiculous visual noise caused by Scourge's 'F' abilities.

 

Black powder changes require getting used to, right now it feels like a dumbing down of Thief because many previous possibilities granted by it's instant-cast are gone, but I'll surely end up getting new creative options with how it is now.

Swindler's Equilibrium was already quite strong when successfully evading lowered the Steal CD by a second on a 1 second ICD, getting double steal was honestly just OP. Only reason it felt fine, is because there were other way more ridiculous things in the game (like Condi mirage, but that got nerfed as well), but now it's still strong without feeling ridiculous. Just needs more thought and/or better instinct now, which I like.

 

Seriously, good Thieves shine due to being adaptable to any situation.

If you can't adapt or refuse to... Maybe Thief just doesn't actually suit you?

And yea, everyone has their preferences as to how they want to play and that's respectable. But you simply got to accept that as with any online game (and life for that matter), things won't always go your way, deal with it.

 

The game's not in a terrible state, Thief has had way worse times... Stick to it if you like it, leave it if you don't.

[Lucinellia.9247]

> @"Artaz.3819" said:

> I want [Fire For Effect](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fire_for_Effect "Fire For Effect") GM trait to remove the Deadeye's Mark F1 and F2 cast times.

 

This would be too good sadly. There are already builds out there which allow you to do about 30k DPS for 20 Might and 33k DPS for 16 Might with the remainder easily picked up by alternative healers and Chaos Chronos respectively.

[Mhina.1827]

> @"Kageseigi.2150" said:

> What do I want? Consider the following to include the Core Thief...

>

> Stronger 1v1 fight capability in sPvP... as in a much more level playing field.

>

> The Thief is an assassin class that has to run away at first sight of most enemies.

>

> The Thief should excel at single-combat. The Thief should have very high single-target damage... especially in melee.

>

> The Thief currently has no true identity.

> Yes, the Thief is mobile, but so many other professions are as well in today's game.

> Yes, the Thief can disappear, but that does all-but-nothing in sPvP. Mesmers, Rangers, Engineers can also.

> Yes, the Thief can hit hard. So can everything else. There's talk of a Ranger hitting for 57k with one hit. And while that is considered outrageous, it has been shown to hit for 25k+ consistently.

>

> The Thief cannot duel proficiently.

> The Thief cannot bunker proficiently.

> The Thief cannot assault a defended point proficiently.

> The Thief cannot team fight proficiently.

>

> What does the Thief do proficiently? What can it do proficiently?

> It can run from empty point to empty point.

> It can run to add damage to an already even or advantaged fight.

>

> The Thief is just too squishy relative to its ability to deal effective damage. There is too much sustain and mitigation on other professions, yet the Thief doesn't get those mitigations. It's either avoid or die... and the Thief has little advantage in avoiding attacks while still maintaining the needed pressure. There is too much AoE, too many tracking projectiles, too many conditions.

>

> Once again, the Thief needs to be a high threat to any lone enemy. Instead, there are those that can just sit there and /laugh at an approaching Thief.

>

> Is this a general concept? Yes. But this patch doesn't help to achieve it... especially to any non-Deadeye.

 

Every time I say something to a similar affect, I'm insulted, told I just don't know how to play, etc etc. Even when I suggested that S/D core only needs the restoration of the original S/D damage and it'd be perfect. To disagree with that is fine, but why people have to degrade me to do so I don't get. Just saying, be careful.

[cyberzombie.7348]

I just want thief to have the potential of being proficient at any role without it being broken nor the unique playstyle being stripped(that goes for every other class), so gw2 can be closer to the original concept of no-holy-trinity. Though knowing this is a mmo, it has too many variables that makes it its near impossible to find that perfect middle ground for the game.

[Artaz.3819]

> @"Miatela.5047" said:

> > @"Artaz.3819" said:

> > I want [Fire For Effect](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fire_for_Effect "Fire For Effect") GM trait to remove the Deadeye's Mark F1 and F2 cast times.

>

> This would be too good sadly. There are already builds out there which allow you to do about 30k DPS for 20 Might and 33k DPS for 16 Might with the remainder easily picked up by alternative healers and Chaos Chronos respectively.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by your comment of 'too good'. Are you saying 30K-33K DPS (a stretch in an optimized group/raid in practical terms/not test dummy) is too much for Deadeye thief compared to what in a similar hybrid DPS role ?

 

Compared to M7 or BQoBK, FFE is comparatively weak. One in the Chamber would also become as least a viable comparable option too at Adept tier.

[babazhook.6805]

>There was no explanation given to the stealth attack cooldown. The "punish the miss" is just a conclusion accepted, but not the actual reason. The cooldown only makes sense if the attack doesn't require stealth. As it stands, it makes zero sense.

 

I am pretty sure they did give an explanation albeit it was some time ago and likely resides on the old forums.

 

As I recall they indicated they felt the Cooldown needed because to paraphrase "Stealth attacks have no inherent opportunity cost and we felt it needed one". This suggested to me that while it was a #1 attack , it was INI free and it was felt that in the absence of spending INI and given it that much better then a regular #1 attack some other cost had to be added. Now I do not necessarily agree with the rationale for this but am pretty certain this was mentioned.

[Crab Fear.1624]

i want big damage

[Kageseigi.2150]

> @"Mhina.1827" said:

> Every time I say something to a similar affect, I'm insulted, told I just don't know how to play, etc etc. Even when I suggested that S/D core only needs the restoration of the original S/D damage and it'd be perfect. To disagree with that is fine, but why people have to degrade me to do so I don't get. Just saying, be careful.

 

Thank you, and sorry for the bad experiences. I know them well. I just don't really care anymore :-P

Most people have probably just blocked me or learned to automatically skip my posts ;-)

 

The squeaky wheel gets the oil. So be the squeakiest Thief you can be! :-D

 

Ps. Learn to embrace the insults, and use them to fill your Malice meter! If you're not getting attacked, you're not standing for something. And if you're getting attacked from all sides, that probably means you've got a good position ;-)

[Kageseigi.2150]

> @"babazhook.6805" said:

> I am pretty sure they did give an explanation albeit it was some time ago and likely resides on the old forums.

>

> As I recall they indicated they felt the Cooldown needed because to paraphrase "Stealth attacks have no inherent opportunity cost and we felt it needed one". This suggested to me that while it was a #1 attack , it was INI free and it was felt that in the absence of spending INI and given it that much better then a regular #1 attack some other cost had to be added. Now I do not necessarily agree with the rationale for this but am pretty certain this was mentioned.

 

Alas, whatever the case, I wish they would at least flip the Stealth Attack back to a normal auto-attack until the Stealth Attack is off cooldown. If I'm in range for a Backstab and miss, I'd rather not be forced to either run around like I'm unarmed or to have to use even more initiative just to maintain pressure. I usually don't have enough time to get a second Backstab anyway, so my auto-attack would be quite welcome... seeing that I'm already in range.