Tyrian Service Medal

[Shadows Creed.3902]

I am a pretty avid achievement hunter for this game, with other 34k ap and playing since Start. This has to be one of the most ill thought through achieves in the game. The temple event in particular are causing nothing but boredom and arguments. Every temple has people sitting for hours (especially dwayna) waiting for it to randomly contest. From there it devolves into fighting among players of whether to let it fail or successfully defend. After that it is random if you get credit or not.

 

I got credit for melandru defense after not getting credit for it a prior time. I got credit for balth before the priest even showed up...

 

Just some small examples of how random and bad this achieve is.

[starlinvf.1358]

So basically people couldn't somehow cooperate, and that means the whole thing is bad? The only crime here is giving players something to do that involves more then just bumming around the map Solo...... which is exactly what people were complaining about collections being boring and easy, and should be using more areas of the game so theres reasons to revisit them.

 

The irony though is that a bunch of us suspect the reason the credit gets wonky is because of tweaks made to the Temples to make them easier, because "it takes too many people to do them". I ran into few issues, because the commanders were paying attention and keeping people organized. :P

[Gemnaid.4219]

It’s nothing but a sad attempt to make you redo old content.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Gemnaid.4219" said:

> It’s nothing but a sad attempt to make you redo old content.

 

Which people have been complaining that there hasn’t been a reason to do.

[Oglaf.1074]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"Gemnaid.4219" said:

> > It’s nothing but a sad attempt to make you redo old content.

>

> Which people have been complaining that there hasn’t been a reason to do.

 

Indeed. Orr needed to become somehow relevant again. It was, ironically, totally dead despite things like Precursor collections being tied to it. Very annoying.

[Devildoc.6721]

Orr needs to have its events be able to be tracked by API/Event timers because sitting around waiting for an event to spawn twiddling your thumbs is just not fun. But if you leave to go do other things you'll probably miss it... and be back to waiting for it again.

[Vayne.8563]

I can see this problem from all sides. New players need an influx of players in old zones to get stuff like Orr temples done. Same with people working on specific collections. Anet attempts to provide a stream of people there by continually adding the temples into collections. The issue arises from two things.

 

First is lack of clarity. As an example. there are two defense events that spawn in the temple of Dwayna in Malchors, but only one of those defense events counts for the collection and then only if you get hits on the event boss, who often doesn't make it all the way up to the temple. This means you might go through an event that doesn't count and miss the boss the second time which is mad frustrating. Anet needs to make it so all defense events count and you don't need to get a hit on that specific boss. Otherwise it's just a mess.

 

The second issue is the lack of reliability in knowing when these events spawn. Waiting for events that spawn whenever isn't fun. There should be a notification that it's going to start, or even a way to queue for it so you don't have to sit there.

 

But realistically these changes aren't going to be made, because the game is huge and it's just one of thousands of other changes that need to be made. So we either suck it up and deal with it, or don't do that content, because it really is optional content. I did it. And it was a pain in the kitten.

 

Fortunately I have two monitors and I just watched stuff/read the forums and reddit while I was waiting for the temple to spawn. Seems to me, though, that encouraging gameplay that you can AFK through while waiting isn't necessarily the best way to design a game.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Devildoc.6721" said:

> Orr needs to have its events be able to be tracked by API/Event timers because sitting around waiting for an event to spawn twiddling your thumbs is just not fun. But if you leave to go do other things you'll probably miss it... and be back to waiting for it again.

 

Well when Anet allows us to track event status by IP...

 

I remember for a brief period before megaservers where you could actually track events on any map. So the system for that is already in place.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

tl;dr nothing wrong with the temple events per se, it's just that their unpredictability leads to frustration when someone wants them _now_.

 

The cooldown on the Orrian events takes us all by surprise because we have gotten used to timed metas and quick cooldowns. Silverwates often can be started twice the same hour, Istan is predictable, all the world bosses are on a schedule.

 

And alone, among the old metas, the temples ... have a potential 4 hour cooldown after the initial success. After a loss or a successful defense, the cooldowns are more reasonable (20-30 minutes), but... still unpredictable **and** there's nothing in the UI to help.

 

Changing any of the above for the temples would alleviate nearly all the symptoms that are leading to unrest, without changing any achievements.

 

****

 

PS I had zero problem with any of the temples for any recent achievements, including several legendary collections, the service medal, etc. The technique I used is applicable to anyone with a little bit of patience:

* I parked a single character at one of the temples (although you can park one at each if you have L80s to spare).

* Whenever I had 10 minutes (e.g. waiting for someone to start a story), I'd swap to the toon.

* If the event was up, great; I did it and move the character to the next.

* If not, I asked how long people had been waiting. If they had been waiting briefly, then I left to come back another time. If they had been waiting hours, then I would stay no more than my 10 minutes.

 

I got credit for defense on all temples for at least one of my achievements (as I said above, I needed each of them multiple times over the last 3 months) and, as it turned out, got to participate in a couple of assaults, too (which meant a lot of loot).

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"Devildoc.6721" said:

> > Orr needs to have its events be able to be tracked by API/Event timers because sitting around waiting for an event to spawn twiddling your thumbs is just not fun. But if you leave to go do other things you'll probably miss it... and be back to waiting for it again.

>

> Well when Anet allows us to track event status by IP...

>

> I remember for a brief period before megaservers where you could actually track events on any map. So the system for that is already in place.

 

By some sort of instance ID not IP.

 

Part of the system is in place but the API would need to provide a way to retrieve the list of all instance IDs for each map. Given how even existing parts of the API is on life support, additions seem unlikely.

 

 

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"starlinvf.1358" said:

> So basically people couldn't somehow cooperate, and that means the whole thing is bad?

 

No. This achievement is an inconsistent mess. For some temples you need to kill the priest. For some you need to do capture event. For some you need to kill the other boss. Defense events don't always trigger to credit the achievement. It's not a matter of player cooperation, it's a matter of messy design and lack of basic foresight after 6 years on the market for this game and 10+ years for the company as a whole.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"starlinvf.1358" said:

> > So basically people couldn't somehow cooperate, and that means the whole thing is bad?

>

> No. This achievement is an inconsistent mess. For some temples you need to kill the priest. For some you need to do capture event. For some you need to kill the other boss. Defense events don't always trigger to credit the achievement. It's not a matter of player cooperation, it's a matter of messy design and lack of basic foresight after 6 years on the market for this game and 10+ years for the company as a whole.

 

That's misleading, as phrased above. If you get credit, then defense always counts, killing the priest (if present) counts, and the assault counts.

(The sole exception is at Melandru due a different sort of issue altogether: there is a duplicate defense event, with the identical name. The duplicate was not adjusted to give credit.)

 

**The problem is that the game has an unusual definition of "get credit,"** which can lead even long-time veterans to assume they participated enough, without the game agreeing. Essentially, you have do enough damage to relevant foes. If you reach that threshold, you get credit; otherwise you don't. Often, the main boss counts for that, which is (often) why killing the main boss matters more than killing some random champion that spawns due to the presence of the zerg.

 

Unfortunately, the amount of damage done by efficient players far exceeds that of those who pay less attention to builds. This results in some people doing too little damage. So it can appear that the credit is being awarded randomly. Controlled tests show that it's not random; it's just not intuitive.

 

Further, this mechanic is hardly noticeable in lots of events, because they are not suddenly popular (as these have become since LS4.3, and as they became after the initial addition of legendary collections). Some events that are perennially well-attended have a number of factors that lead to people getting credit without having to pay any attention.

 

There are a couple of other mechanics at play as well. However, all of the above is theory and not very helpful for those looking to gain credit. The point is that these mechanics aren't new to the game; they've always been present and always been an issue for some people; they just don't usually matter so much.

 

****

Here, then, is a practical guide to ensuring that you get credit for these events **and** other events that have huge amounts of participation (whether this week or in the future):

* Join a party. This is the single easiest thing you can do. All damage done by party members contributes to the threshold.

* Be the first to tag. This is difficult if you aren't as mobile. For feeding Petey during the Kourna meta, head to the south-most experiments; the zerg always starts north. That gives you more time to reach the threshold on at least one.

* Adjust your build to do more damage.

* Focus on high-value targets. For example, at the temple events, avoid the champions and go after the main boss and as many of the rest of the mobs as possible. (Since the zerg tends to focus on champs for their bags, you can focus on the rest.)

[saloja.7920]

> @"Devildoc.6721" said:

> Orr needs to have its events be able to be tracked by API/Event timers because sitting around waiting for an event to spawn twiddling your thumbs is just not fun. But if you leave to go do other things you'll probably miss it... and be back to waiting for it again.

 

Tyrian Service Medal of Patience.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > @"starlinvf.1358" said:

> > > So basically people couldn't somehow cooperate, and that means the whole thing is bad?

> >

> > No. This achievement is an inconsistent mess. For some temples you need to kill the priest. For some you need to do capture event. For some you need to kill the other boss. Defense events don't always trigger to credit the achievement. It's not a matter of player cooperation, it's a matter of messy design and lack of basic foresight after 6 years on the market for this game and 10+ years for the company as a whole.

>

> That's misleading, as phrased above. If you get credit, then defense always counts, killing the priest (if present) counts, and the assault counts.

> (The sole exception is at Melandru due a different sort of issue altogether: there is a duplicate defense event, with the identical name. The duplicate was not adjusted to give credit.)

 

Not true. For Dwayna, you need to kill the Statue. For Balthazar, you need to do the capture event before the priest.

[Steve The Cynic.3217]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > @"starlinvf.1358" said:

> > > > So basically people couldn't somehow cooperate, and that means the whole thing is bad?

> > >

> > > No. This achievement is an inconsistent mess. For some temples you need to kill the priest. For some you need to do capture event. For some you need to kill the other boss. Defense events don't always trigger to credit the achievement. It's not a matter of player cooperation, it's a matter of messy design and lack of basic foresight after 6 years on the market for this game and 10+ years for the company as a whole.

> >

> > That's misleading, as phrased above. If you get credit, then defense always counts, killing the priest (if present) counts, and the assault counts.

> > (The sole exception is at Melandru due a different sort of issue altogether: there is a duplicate defense event, with the identical name. The duplicate was not adjusted to give credit.)

>

> Not true. For Dwayna, you need to kill the Statue. For Balthazar, you need to do the capture event before the priest.

 

I can confirm that. I did He Whose Name Shall Not Be Spoken in "assault" / "take back" mode, and the priest arrived *after* I got credit, while credit for Dwayna wasn't until the very end of the event chain, after fetching Wossname's ghost from the water and shepherding him up to the temple.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > @"Devildoc.6721" said:

> > > Orr needs to have its events be able to be tracked by API/Event timers because sitting around waiting for an event to spawn twiddling your thumbs is just not fun. But if you leave to go do other things you'll probably miss it... and be back to waiting for it again.

> >

> > Well when Anet allows us to track event status by IP...

> >

> > I remember for a brief period before megaservers where you could actually track events on any map. So the system for that is already in place.

>

> By some sort of instance ID not IP.

>

> Part of the system is in place but the API would need to provide a way to retrieve the list of all instance IDs for each map. Given how even existing parts of the API is on life support, additions seem unlikely.

>

>

 

I don’t see the point in adding an instance ID when we can already use the IP to tell them apart. We even have the /ip command.

 

[perilisk.1874]

If they aren't going to put temples on a fixed timer, they could at least add a countdown to the meta sidebar in between events so people have a good idea of whether they should stick around or not.

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > @"Devildoc.6721" said:

> > > > Orr needs to have its events be able to be tracked by API/Event timers because sitting around waiting for an event to spawn twiddling your thumbs is just not fun. But if you leave to go do other things you'll probably miss it... and be back to waiting for it again.

> > >

> > > Well when Anet allows us to track event status by IP...

> > >

> > > I remember for a brief period before megaservers where you could actually track events on any map. So the system for that is already in place.

> >

> > By some sort of instance ID not IP.

> >

> > Part of the system is in place but the API would need to provide a way to retrieve the list of all instance IDs for each map. Given how even existing parts of the API is on life support, additions seem unlikely.

> >

> >

>

> I don’t see the point in adding an instance ID when we can already use the IP to tell them apart. We even have the /ip command.

>

 

because we *can't* tell them apart all the time. It is possible to have multiple instances with the same IP.

 

> @"perilisk.1874" said:

> If they aren't going to put temples on a fixed timer, they could at least add a countdown to the meta sidebar in between events so people have a good idea of whether they should stick around or not.

 

or simply shorten the timer which is probably the simplest possible change

 

although the consequence of that is once this thing blows over anyone who needs something from the temple vendors is going to have a tougher time

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > @"Devildoc.6721" said:

> > > > > Orr needs to have its events be able to be tracked by API/Event timers because sitting around waiting for an event to spawn twiddling your thumbs is just not fun. But if you leave to go do other things you'll probably miss it... and be back to waiting for it again.

> > > >

> > > > Well when Anet allows us to track event status by IP...

> > > >

> > > > I remember for a brief period before megaservers where you could actually track events on any map. So the system for that is already in place.

> > >

> > > By some sort of instance ID not IP.

> > >

> > > Part of the system is in place but the API would need to provide a way to retrieve the list of all instance IDs for each map. Given how even existing parts of the API is on life support, additions seem unlikely.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I don’t see the point in adding an instance ID when we can already use the IP to tell them apart. We even have the /ip command.

> >

>

> because we *can't* tell them apart all the time. It is possible to have multiple instances with the same IP.

 

I haven’t personally seen that ever happen, but if it’s a possibility, I can see the benefit of an instance ID then.

[Devildoc.6721]

> @"saloja.7920" said:

> > @"Devildoc.6721" said:

> > Orr needs to have its events be able to be tracked by API/Event timers because sitting around waiting for an event to spawn twiddling your thumbs is just not fun. But if you leave to go do other things you'll probably miss it... and be back to waiting for it again.

>

> Tyrian Service Medal of Patience.

 

No, screw that. standing at a cathedral for up to an hour at a time twiddling your thumbs unable to do anything else out of fear you'll miss the event is just not fun. I only have a single display so I'm literally left just staring at the screen, hoping whoever designed this mess has had the worst day ever.

[Aaralyna.3104]

This event definetly needs a fix. I did Balthazar event today on some low level alt. I killed about 3 trashmobs and did a few hits on the boss and I get rewarded with the achievement. (I only killed so few as I started out dead at the hero point which was contested). Then a friend of me, killed 20x more incl trash and boss (and tried this several times already) and gets no credit whatsoever. Its a 100% rng if you get the achievement or not. Nothing to do with participation or damage you do on mobs/boss when it comes to getting credit it seems...