Do you think defensive attributes are (generally) underpowered in PvE?

[Orpheal.8263]

Suggested it several times, but it can't hurt mentioning it again here... what GW2 needs as Attributes, is something like compared to Sword Art Onlien Fatal Bulelt, where each Attribute has multiple effects, this makes each Attribute in itself alot more meaningful and important.

You won't concentrate yourself then too much on only offensive attributes, if Attributes have multiple effects.

If Attributes have multiple effects, this means Attriobutes can be better balanced to be more equal, so that not only the offense has synergies, but defense and support also too as well.

If Attributes have multiple effects, this will drastically help this game to remove obsolete Boons and Passives and as result of that, wil lreduce the Effect Spam of this Game, so that players have too look lesser onto their Skill Bar, what effects they have actively on and can focus themself more onto the battle itself ...

The whole Condition and Boon System is in need of gettign reworked together with an overwork of attributes to battle the whole effect spam of this game that has massively increased since HoT. Short said, what GW2 needs as Attributes, are:

 

*Power* > Increases Maximum Direct Damage, Weight Limit (WL affects now how many Weapon Sets you can carry additionally to the Base Number), Increases dealt Condition Durations and gives a Bonus to Max Range of Skills.

 

*Vitality* > Increases Maximum Health stronger, than before, now 30 Points per Vit Point. Increases Healing Efficiency of outgoing Heals, Reduces received Condition Damage and increases your Resistance to Hard CC's, making it more diffucult to stun you, launch, knockdown ect.

 

*Precision* > Increases your Chance to land Critical Hits, reduces Endurance Costs of Dodges, Increases the Chance to deal Additional Condition Stacks with Skills that deal Conditions and lastly increases the chance that Skills can hit more Targets than usual.

 

*Toughness* > Decreases received Direct Damage, Decreases received Condition Durations, Increases your Maximum Endurance and decreases the Chance of receiving Critical Hits

 

*Agility* > Increases Auto Attack Attack Speed, Decreases Skill Recharge Times of Utility Skills by a Percentage, Increases Endurance Regeneration Speed and Increases Movement Speed

 

*Courage* > Increases Critical Damage Multiplicator, Increases Boon Efficiency, making Boons stronger with this, Increases your Break Bar Length to make it take more time, before you can get Hard CCed, especially with high Vitality in combination and Increases Health Regeneration, when Downed, making it easier to rally when you are highly courageous

 

*Wisdom* Increases Condition Efficiency (formerly Condition Damage called), Reduces Skill recharge Times of Healing and Elite Skills, Increases Boon Durations and the last effect of it is that it affects individually the Class Specific Mechanic, like it improves Initiative Regen for Wisdoms, Adrenaline gain for Warriors, Soul Gain for Necros ect., making this way Wisdom for every class individually different as in nice to have

 

Thats then 7 Attributes with multiple effects, compared to currently 9 Attributes where each one is boring and in itself not very important with only 1 single effect, unless its an offensive effect that synergizes with the other ones ...

 

But a rework of such a attribute system also means, that this game needs to get rid finalls of GEAR STATs .

Giving this game gear stats was one of the worst decisions Anet could have made in my opinion, as it leads only to gear grind for just being able to play your character as you want.. the eternal hunt after the optimal gear stat setting, just so you are able to play your character as you want ... *rolleyes* with anet having to permanently add more new gear stat combinations, just so that we even become able at all to play the characters with the builds like we want - and if the gear stat combo that we want/need, doesn't exist - then bad luck players ....

 

In this case was GW1 much much further and better designed in the waay how Attributes worked there - with the flexibility to always change your build setting, due to the attributes not being bonded to the gear you use ....

[TheQuickFox.3826]

Do offensive attributes give exponential damage increases, or is everything linear?

If everything is linear, why are Celestial stats generally not the most favourite stats amongst the playerbase, they give the most attribute points after all.

[Khisanth.2948]

Most of the time it is much safer to kill faster.

 

If you look at it as a percentage "surviving twice as long" sounds great but as a flat amount of time "surviving 2 seconds instead of 1" does not.

[Westenev.5289]

> @"TheQuickFox.3826" said:

> Do offensive attributes give exponential damage increases, or is everything linear?

> If everything is linear, why are Celestial stats generally not the most favourite stats amongst the playerbase?

 

Because it can take 30 days to craft a full set if you're charging quartz daily, while Berserker gear is nice and cheap right now.

[Haishao.6851]

> @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > @"Haishao.6851" said:

> > > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > i think the stats in general needs a good balance, we have damage as the only way to play while any other method is removed from viable.

> > > the game is made to nuke, to just do as much damage as you can without even using a single cell in your mind.

> > >

> > > i like to see the stats to be balance in such as way that battles need more then mindless nuking, where strategy is needed to even stand a chance and a well balanced team is required to fight champions and legendaries.

> > > Anet is to blame partly for this, they make enemies solely to be nuked to death in seconds and have absolutely no threat beside being annoying.

> >

> > Where's the strategy in standing still and absorbing damage because a number on your armor allow you to do so?

> >

>

> by letting others do the damage and distract the enemy from killing the nukers, when an enemy is made to kill faster then any DPS can handle it's good to have a good tank.

 

Sounds more like stupidity than strategy. GW was never Tank & Spank, I don't see why it should suddenly become that.

I prefer being able to solo things and/or figure out new ways to approach a fight with any kind of characters than being forced into that pathetically bland and boring mechanic.

 

[sorudo.9054]

> @"Haishao.6851" said:

> > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > @"Haishao.6851" said:

> > > > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > > i think the stats in general needs a good balance, we have damage as the only way to play while any other method is removed from viable.

> > > > the game is made to nuke, to just do as much damage as you can without even using a single cell in your mind.

> > > >

> > > > i like to see the stats to be balance in such as way that battles need more then mindless nuking, where strategy is needed to even stand a chance and a well balanced team is required to fight champions and legendaries.

> > > > Anet is to blame partly for this, they make enemies solely to be nuked to death in seconds and have absolutely no threat beside being annoying.

> > >

> > > Where's the strategy in standing still and absorbing damage because a number on your armor allow you to do so?

> > >

> >

> > by letting others do the damage and distract the enemy from killing the nukers, when an enemy is made to kill faster then any DPS can handle it's good to have a good tank.

>

> Sounds more like stupidity than strategy. GW was never Tank & Spank, I don't see why it should suddenly become that.

> I prefer being able to solo things and/or figure out new ways to approach a fight with any kind of characters than being forced into that pathetically bland and boring mechanic.

>

 

what, like the bland and boring part where it's DPS or nothing?

[Haishao.6851]

> @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > @"Haishao.6851" said:

> > > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > > @"Haishao.6851" said:

> > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > > > i think the stats in general needs a good balance, we have damage as the only way to play while any other method is removed from viable.

> > > > > the game is made to nuke, to just do as much damage as you can without even using a single cell in your mind.

> > > > >

> > > > > i like to see the stats to be balance in such as way that battles need more then mindless nuking, where strategy is needed to even stand a chance and a well balanced team is required to fight champions and legendaries.

> > > > > Anet is to blame partly for this, they make enemies solely to be nuked to death in seconds and have absolutely no threat beside being annoying.

> > > >

> > > > Where's the strategy in standing still and absorbing damage because a number on your armor allow you to do so?

> > > >

> > >

> > > by letting others do the damage and distract the enemy from killing the nukers, when an enemy is made to kill faster then any DPS can handle it's good to have a good tank.

> >

> > Sounds more like stupidity than strategy. GW was never Tank & Spank, I don't see why it should suddenly become that.

> > I prefer being able to solo things and/or figure out new ways to approach a fight with any kind of characters than being forced into that pathetically bland and boring mechanic.

> >

>

> what, like the bland and boring part where it's DPS or nothing?

 

Equip some nomad stats armor and you wont be doing DPS.

 

[Rhyse.8179]

The problem is Dodge and other hard-counter defenses (aegis, block, evade, distortion, etc) making baseline defensive stats pretty much irrelevant. The only purpose for defensive stats is to cover when you make mistakes. It's a game design problem, not a balance problem.

[Tails.9372]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> they're useless. You don't need either.

That depends on the skill level of the player. I'd rather have a low skilled player running around with defensive gear which actually does something and survive than one of them trying to play glass cannon and decorate the floor ~99% of the time.

 

> @"TheQuickFox.3826" said:

> why are Celestial stats generally not the most favourite stats amongst the playerbase

For them to be worth using both concentration and expertise would have to be added to the celestial stats as well as them getting a ~50% buff across the board and even then they'd still be outclassed most of the time cause ultimately specialization > everything else.

[perilisk.1874]

In GW1, attributes didn't provide a fixed sort of impact like traditional MMO attributes. Instead, they functioned more like leveling skills up in your typical Diablo 2-style ARPG -- each skill had a built in table, and certain aspects (sometimes damage, sometimes duration, sometimes other things) increased with attribute level.

 

I think they went away from that in GW2 to have more consistency among professions and a clearer use for each attribute. The traits system was also initially closely linked with attributes. In practice, however, the end result is now a mess, especially as core assumptions in the original design have been erased, leaving us with weird things like profession-specific attributes tied to nothing.

 

I think they could get good results (granted, it would be a huge undertaking) if they went back to a GW1-style system, but with a common set of six attributes, using a MtG-style color system. Each skill would be linked to one of those attributes, and would get stronger in various ways with higher attribute level. Attributes would come from armor, in +1 to +3 increments, with all but +1 coming at the cost of some % of HP. Armor alone should do the work of Toughness.

 

Doing it this way, attributes could indicate in more general terms the role(s) a character is built for. Higher level active defense abilities could still get more or less powerful by, e.g., changing cooldown or duration, etc. Others skills could change ammo levels, number of targets, area size, critical rate/effect, or any number of other factors besides just damage and duration.

 

Just throwing an example of color-attribute and roles out: Red for direct/burst damage, Black for DOT and offensive support, Green for taking hits and Aggro Management, Purple for mobility/evasion and direct control, White for burst heals and cleansing, Blue for sustained heals and defensive support.

[Blocki.4931]

Nothing needs changes, especially not PvE

 

I don't understand how that question came to be? Because everybody is just playing glass builds and it's not worthwhile using defense stats? That's due to the nature of group content.

[perilisk.1874]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> Nothing needs changes, especially not PvE

>

> I don't understand how that question came to be? Because everybody is just playing glass builds and it's not worthwhile using defense stats? That's due to the nature of group content.

 

No, it's due to the way skills interact with attributes. People definitely use both offensive and defensive skills, it's just that effective offense requires two or three attributes, while effective defense requires 0.

[sorudo.9054]

> @"Haishao.6851" said:

> > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > @"Haishao.6851" said:

> > > > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > > > @"Haishao.6851" said:

> > > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > > > > i think the stats in general needs a good balance, we have damage as the only way to play while any other method is removed from viable.

> > > > > > the game is made to nuke, to just do as much damage as you can without even using a single cell in your mind.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > i like to see the stats to be balance in such as way that battles need more then mindless nuking, where strategy is needed to even stand a chance and a well balanced team is required to fight champions and legendaries.

> > > > > > Anet is to blame partly for this, they make enemies solely to be nuked to death in seconds and have absolutely no threat beside being annoying.

> > > > >

> > > > > Where's the strategy in standing still and absorbing damage because a number on your armor allow you to do so?

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > by letting others do the damage and distract the enemy from killing the nukers, when an enemy is made to kill faster then any DPS can handle it's good to have a good tank.

> > >

> > > Sounds more like stupidity than strategy. GW was never Tank & Spank, I don't see why it should suddenly become that.

> > > I prefer being able to solo things and/or figure out new ways to approach a fight with any kind of characters than being forced into that pathetically bland and boring mechanic.

> > >

> >

> > what, like the bland and boring part where it's DPS or nothing?

>

> Equip some nomad stats armor and you wont be doing DPS.

>

 

and that makes no sense, just ignoring the only way to play the game to make your point doesn't help your case.

the way it is now it's DPS or nothing, if stats are truly balanced DPS is just a part of the many play styles out there.

[BunjiKugashira.9754]

> @"TheQuickFox.3826" said:

> Do offensive attributes give exponential damage increases, or is everything linear?

> If everything is linear, why are Celestial stats generally not the most favourite stats amongst the playerbase, they give the most attribute points after all.

 

There are certain stats that affect each other multiplicative. Strength, Precision and Ferocity have such a relationship, as well as Condition Damage and Expertise. In addition to that weapons tend to be either strong at dishing out direct damage or condition damage, but not both at the same time. Most traits also support either damage type, but not both.

 

In the end, even if you find a build that uses a good mix of condi and direct damage, adding up only the offensive stats on celestial gear falls short of what you can get with Viper or Berserker stats. As long as defensive stats aren't a hard requirement in PvE, they simply don't matter for buildcrafting. They don't kill stuff faster. PvE will always favor picking just enough defense to survive the encounter.

[Biff.5312]

 

> what, like the bland and boring part where it's DPS or nothing?

 

It isn't though, in pve. Sure, if you want to kill as fast as possible or contribute as much as possible in group event, you have to focus on DPS. However, you CAN opt for other priorities and manage just fine. For instance I have (for kicks) a guardian who's all about vitality and toughness, because I find it amusing to be able to tank lots of mobs and never get hurt. I still kill them, but it takes a long time. Usually someone else comes along and does the dps for me.

 

The point is that in pve any build that doesn't lead to you dying is viable. So there's no issue as far as I can tell.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"TheQuickFox.3826" said:

> Do offensive attributes give exponential damage increases, or is everything linear?

> If everything is linear, why are Celestial stats generally not the most favourite stats amongst the playerbase, they give the most attribute points after all.

 

Because nonspecialized builds in PvE are always inferior to specialized ones. And on specialized builds lot of stats would be completely wasted.

Basically, any serious build need to be really good at at least one thing. Celestial isn't really good at anything.

[Einlanzer.1627]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"TheQuickFox.3826" said:

> > Do offensive attributes give exponential damage increases, or is everything linear?

> > If everything is linear, why are Celestial stats generally not the most favourite stats amongst the playerbase, they give the most attribute points after all.

>

> Because nonspecialized builds in PvE are always inferior to specialized ones. And on specialized builds lot of stats would be completely wasted.

> Basically, any serious build need to be really good at at least one thing. Celestial isn't really good at anything.

 

But that actually is indicative of a balance problem. The need for specialized gear makes sense in role-based content, but, if the game was well balanced, a well distributed spread would be very viable if not outright the best in general/solo PvE.

[Haishao.6851]

> @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > @"Haishao.6851" said:

> > > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > > @"Haishao.6851" said:

> > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > > > > @"Haishao.6851" said:

> > > > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > > > > > i think the stats in general needs a good balance, we have damage as the only way to play while any other method is removed from viable.

> > > > > > > the game is made to nuke, to just do as much damage as you can without even using a single cell in your mind.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > i like to see the stats to be balance in such as way that battles need more then mindless nuking, where strategy is needed to even stand a chance and a well balanced team is required to fight champions and legendaries.

> > > > > > > Anet is to blame partly for this, they make enemies solely to be nuked to death in seconds and have absolutely no threat beside being annoying.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Where's the strategy in standing still and absorbing damage because a number on your armor allow you to do so?

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > by letting others do the damage and distract the enemy from killing the nukers, when an enemy is made to kill faster then any DPS can handle it's good to have a good tank.

> > > >

> > > > Sounds more like stupidity than strategy. GW was never Tank & Spank, I don't see why it should suddenly become that.

> > > > I prefer being able to solo things and/or figure out new ways to approach a fight with any kind of characters than being forced into that pathetically bland and boring mechanic.

> > > >

> > >

> > > what, like the bland and boring part where it's DPS or nothing?

> >

> > Equip some nomad stats armor and you wont be doing DPS.

> >

>

> and that makes no sense, just ignoring the only way to play the game to make your point doesn't help your case.

> the way it is now it's DPS or nothing, if stats are truly balanced DPS is just a part of the many play styles out there.

 

I'm not ignoring "the only way to play" because there's not only one way to play.

Obviously dealing damage will always be important because the goal is to kill enemies by removing their HP with attacks. But it's never "DPS or nothing". That's maybe what people who standstill and spam1 think but in reality it's Defense or nothing. You could be a world champion at doing DPS rotation on a training dummy, but if you cannot avoid getting hit in a fight, you're going to do 0 DPS.

Defending yourself in Guild Wars was always done through skills and positioning, not passive stats. Those stats are here in GW2 to help people who are not good with active defense to be able to play harder content. It give them room for mistakes.

 

Guild Wars was never a tank & Spank game. Becoming one is exactly what would make the game only playable in one way. It would become impossible to do anything else than tank&spank.

 

What would be your strategy for Queen's Gauntlet we'll have next week with a Stump McTank play style?

 

[sorudo.9054]

> @"Haishao.6851" said:

> > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > @"Haishao.6851" said:

> > > > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > > > @"Haishao.6851" said:

> > > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > > > > > @"Haishao.6851" said:

> > > > > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > > > > > > i think the stats in general needs a good balance, we have damage as the only way to play while any other method is removed from viable.

> > > > > > > > the game is made to nuke, to just do as much damage as you can without even using a single cell in your mind.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > i like to see the stats to be balance in such as way that battles need more then mindless nuking, where strategy is needed to even stand a chance and a well balanced team is required to fight champions and legendaries.

> > > > > > > > Anet is to blame partly for this, they make enemies solely to be nuked to death in seconds and have absolutely no threat beside being annoying.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Where's the strategy in standing still and absorbing damage because a number on your armor allow you to do so?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > by letting others do the damage and distract the enemy from killing the nukers, when an enemy is made to kill faster then any DPS can handle it's good to have a good tank.

> > > > >

> > > > > Sounds more like stupidity than strategy. GW was never Tank & Spank, I don't see why it should suddenly become that.

> > > > > I prefer being able to solo things and/or figure out new ways to approach a fight with any kind of characters than being forced into that pathetically bland and boring mechanic.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > what, like the bland and boring part where it's DPS or nothing?

> > >

> > > Equip some nomad stats armor and you wont be doing DPS.

> > >

> >

> > and that makes no sense, just ignoring the only way to play the game to make your point doesn't help your case.

> > the way it is now it's DPS or nothing, if stats are truly balanced DPS is just a part of the many play styles out there.

>

> I'm not ignoring "the only way to play" because there's not only one way to play.

> Obviously dealing damage will always be important because the goal is to kill enemies by removing their HP with attacks. But it's never "DPS or nothing". That's maybe what people who standstill and spam1 think but in reality it's Defense or nothing. You could be a world champion at doing DPS rotation on a training dummy, but if you cannot avoid getting hit in a fight, you're going to do 0 DPS.

> Defending yourself in Guild Wars was always done through skills and positioning, not passive stats. Those stats are here in GW2 to help people who are not good with active defense to be able to play harder content. It give them room for mistakes.

>

> Guild Wars was never a tank & Spank game. Becoming one is exactly what would make the game only playable in one way. It would become impossible to do anything else than tank&spank.

>

> What would be your strategy for Queen's Gauntlet we'll have next week with a Stump McTank play style?

>

 

nothing, because the stats are useless.

that's what i am trying to say, as long as the stats are unbalanced it's a one sided game.

the "play the way you want" has become "play the way meta wants" since anything else under performs, ppl get closed to only go for one build and the ones who like tactics are suck with a brainless game.

[starlinvf.1358]

> @"TheQuickFox.3826" said:

> Do offensive attributes give exponential damage increases, or is everything linear?

> If everything is linear, why are Celestial stats generally not the most favourite stats amongst the playerbase, they give the most attribute points after all.

 

Its not exponential, but it is compound multiplicative. This is actually true for both offensive and defensive stats, but because offensive stats inherently scale upwards, the numbers collectively magnify with each modifier. Because Defense stats scale downward, there is a minor diminishing effect with each delta due to applying a % to a ever smaller magnitude. Vitality and Condi damage do scale linearly, but condi damage is also weighted, as are healing skills HP pools in general. The irony here is that opposing stats generally scale the same way..... but its the bleed over between these groups that you find major vulnerabilities from the difference in scaling.

 

For instance, high Vet lets you take more power damage in practice. But with the rate power damage scales up ward with point investment, its the weapon skill coefficient and your base armor values that prevent you from taking 100k damage hits. (if you sit down and do the math, the raw damage really does reach into the 6 digit range on some skills)

[StinVec.3621]

> @"Haishao.6851" said:

> > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > @"Haishao.6851" said:

> > > > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > > > @"Haishao.6851" said:

> > > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > > > > > @"Haishao.6851" said:

> > > > > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Haishao.6851" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > > > > > > > > i think the stats in general needs a good balance, we have damage as the only way to play while any other method is removed from viable.

> > > > > > > > > > the game is made to nuke, to just do as much damage as you can without even using a single cell in your mind.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > i like to see the stats to be balance in such as way that battles need more then mindless nuking, where strategy is needed to even stand a chance and a well balanced team is required to fight champions and legendaries.

> > > > > > > > > > Anet is to blame partly for this, they make enemies solely to be nuked to death in seconds and have absolutely no threat beside being annoying.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Where's the strategy in standing still and absorbing damage because a number on your armor allow you to do so?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > by letting others do the damage and distract the enemy from killing the nukers, when an enemy is made to kill faster then any DPS can handle it's good to have a good tank.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Sounds more like stupidity than strategy. GW was never Tank & Spank, I don't see why it should suddenly become that.

> > > > > > > I prefer being able to solo things and/or figure out new ways to approach a fight with any kind of characters than being forced into that pathetically bland and boring mechanic.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > what, like the bland and boring part where it's DPS or nothing?

> > > > >

> > > > > Equip some nomad stats armor and you wont be doing DPS.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > and that makes no sense, just ignoring the only way to play the game to make your point doesn't help your case.

> > > > the way it is now it's DPS or nothing, if stats are truly balanced DPS is just a part of the many play styles out there.

> > >

> > > I'm not ignoring "the only way to play" because there's not only one way to play.

> > > Obviously dealing damage will always be important because the goal is to kill enemies by removing their HP with attacks. But it's never "DPS or nothing". That's maybe what people who standstill and spam1 think but in reality it's Defense or nothing. You could be a world champion at doing DPS rotation on a training dummy, but if you cannot avoid getting hit in a fight, you're going to do 0 DPS.

> > > Defending yourself in Guild Wars was always done through skills and positioning, not passive stats. Those stats are here in GW2 to help people who are not good with active defense to be able to play harder content. It give them room for mistakes.

> > >

> > > Guild Wars was never a tank & Spank game. Becoming one is exactly what would make the game only playable in one way. It would become impossible to do anything else than tank&spank.

> > >

> > > What would be your strategy for Queen's Gauntlet we'll have next week with a Stump McTank play style?

> > >

> >

> > nothing, because the stats are useless.

> > that's what i am trying to say, as long as the stats are unbalanced it's a one sided game.

> > the "play the way you want" has become "play the way meta wants" since anything else under performs, ppl get closed to only go for one build and the ones who like tactics are suck with a brainless game.

>

> Stats are definitely not useless. I told you already what they're used for.

> Playing the meta is you own personal decision. Hundred of thousand of people don't play the meta in the game.

> "Play the way you want" was about not being forced into specific content or play style to get max level and equipment. Exactly the opposite of what you demand.

>

> If you think the game suck, go play something else.

 

This is a very enlightening discussion, which is taking place on a forum that is here for discussions such as this. Discussions where everyone shares their opinions on what they like and do not like, as well as how to potentially make something they do not like into something they do like, is exactly the point of this forum.

 

Why are you interrupting this sharing of ideas with personal attacks of telling them if they do not like it to go somewhere else? They are sharing their opinion, just as you are - again, what this forum is for. There is no justifiable reason to resort to a personal attack simply because their opinion is different from yours on this topic. Chasing anyone not in agreement with you out of the thread, or attempting to silence others simply for voicing a differing opinion is not appropriate or acceptable behavior.

[Einlanzer.1627]

> @"Mea.5491" said:

> Maybe an unpopular opinion but after several years of power creep, we really need a "defense" overhaul. The base HP and armor should be raised for every profession, Vitality and Toughness should scale better. Our damage increases all the time but our defensive stats are outdated and neglected.

 

I think this is pretty intuitive, to be honest. Alternatively, they could reign back some of the offensive power creep. I think conditions are still overtuned and need to be on shorter durations, and I think offensive boon sharing is out of control, and they never really properly normalized the scaling on berserker stats relative to others. You still just get too much bang for your buck from the combination of power, precision, and ferocity.

 

So, in short, I think Toughness and Vitality could actually be mostly fixed by reverting some of the power creep, though I think Healing Power is problematic and still doesn't scale the way it should. IMO, they should probably remove Healing Power and normalize the attribute as outgoing healing effectiveness, the same way concentration and expertise work. Maybe do the same thing for condition damage, honestly.

[Khisanth.2948]

Even if you ignore everything else ... while doing LS3 one of the bosses had 1.5 million HP. Between the two extremes of my characters' builds that will take between 3 minutes and 1 hour to finish that fight. No prize for guessing which end I prefer.

[Einlanzer.1627]

> @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> Even if you ignore everything else ... while doing LS3 one of the bosses had 1.5 million HP. Between the two extremes of my characters' builds that will take between 3 minutes and 1 hour to finish that fight. No prize for guessing which end I prefer.

 

Right, and that, precisely, is why there's a problem that needs to be addressed. Offensive builds make too much of a difference in offense while defensive builds don't make enough of a difference in defense.

[Haishao.6851]

> @"StinVec.3621" said:

> > @"Haishao.6851" said:

> > > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > > @"Haishao.6851" said:

> > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > > > > @"Haishao.6851" said:

> > > > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Haishao.6851" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Haishao.6851" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > i think the stats in general needs a good balance, we have damage as the only way to play while any other method is removed from viable.

> > > > > > > > > > > the game is made to nuke, to just do as much damage as you can without even using a single cell in your mind.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > i like to see the stats to be balance in such as way that battles need more then mindless nuking, where strategy is needed to even stand a chance and a well balanced team is required to fight champions and legendaries.

> > > > > > > > > > > Anet is to blame partly for this, they make enemies solely to be nuked to death in seconds and have absolutely no threat beside being annoying.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Where's the strategy in standing still and absorbing damage because a number on your armor allow you to do so?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > by letting others do the damage and distract the enemy from killing the nukers, when an enemy is made to kill faster then any DPS can handle it's good to have a good tank.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Sounds more like stupidity than strategy. GW was never Tank & Spank, I don't see why it should suddenly become that.

> > > > > > > > I prefer being able to solo things and/or figure out new ways to approach a fight with any kind of characters than being forced into that pathetically bland and boring mechanic.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > what, like the bland and boring part where it's DPS or nothing?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Equip some nomad stats armor and you wont be doing DPS.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > and that makes no sense, just ignoring the only way to play the game to make your point doesn't help your case.

> > > > > the way it is now it's DPS or nothing, if stats are truly balanced DPS is just a part of the many play styles out there.

> > > >

> > > > I'm not ignoring "the only way to play" because there's not only one way to play.

> > > > Obviously dealing damage will always be important because the goal is to kill enemies by removing their HP with attacks. But it's never "DPS or nothing". That's maybe what people who standstill and spam1 think but in reality it's Defense or nothing. You could be a world champion at doing DPS rotation on a training dummy, but if you cannot avoid getting hit in a fight, you're going to do 0 DPS.

> > > > Defending yourself in Guild Wars was always done through skills and positioning, not passive stats. Those stats are here in GW2 to help people who are not good with active defense to be able to play harder content. It give them room for mistakes.

> > > >

> > > > Guild Wars was never a tank & Spank game. Becoming one is exactly what would make the game only playable in one way. It would become impossible to do anything else than tank&spank.

> > > >

> > > > What would be your strategy for Queen's Gauntlet we'll have next week with a Stump McTank play style?

> > > >

> > >

> > > nothing, because the stats are useless.

> > > that's what i am trying to say, as long as the stats are unbalanced it's a one sided game.

> > > the "play the way you want" has become "play the way meta wants" since anything else under performs, ppl get closed to only go for one build and the ones who like tactics are suck with a brainless game.

> >

> > Stats are definitely not useless. I told you already what they're used for.

> > Playing the meta is you own personal decision. Hundred of thousand of people don't play the meta in the game.

> > "Play the way you want" was about not being forced into specific content or play style to get max level and equipment. Exactly the opposite of what you demand.

> >

> > If you think the game suck, go play something else.

>

> This is a very enlightening discussion, which is taking place on a forum that is here for discussions such as this. Discussions where everyone shares their opinions on what they like and do not like, as well as how to potentially make something they do not like into something they do like, is exactly the point of this forum.

>

> Why are you interrupting this sharing of ideas with personal attacks of telling them if they do not like it to go somewhere else? They are sharing their opinion, just as you are - again, what this forum is for. There is no justifiable reason to resort to a personal attack simply because their opinion is different from yours on this topic. Chasing anyone not in agreement with you out of the thread, or attempting to silence others simply for voicing a differing opinion is not appropriate or acceptable behavior.

 

What personal attack exactly?