Math.5123 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 All of this being said, I would prefer swiss-ATs and on demand ATs over duo ranked. That way, everyone gets what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 Here's a quick example of how it feels to be a top rated platinum player. _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ **For those of you in high gold, imagine yourself getting paired up with 4 bronze players on your team EVERY single match for EVERY season while the other team has a mix of high silvers and low golds.** This is how the matches would go: 1. You would win whatever fight on the node you are at. 2. Your team loses the rest of the map. 3. You lose the game unless you do one of two things: - You can completely nuke someone under 15-20 seconds at your point and nuke someone at the teamfight before any of your teammates get stomped. - Hold 1v2 on your cap or 1v3 on a neutral cap all game while sometimes winning. What would you do about it? After more than a year of getting put into matches where your entire team consists people drastically below your skill level, you'd want to play with a friend to ease the frustration. But wait! YOU CAN'T. You're stuck in these matches with no way to win unless you sweat your ass off every time to climb with that nice 65% or higher win ratio. _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ And for the other two divisions: 1. **If you're silver, imagine always getting matched up with people who keyboard turn and skill click everything while 3 capping home.** 2. **If you're bronze, imagine never having a team at all.** _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ How would you feel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math.5123 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > Here's a quick example of how it feels to be a top rated platinum player. > _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > > **For those of you in high gold, imagine yourself getting paired up with 4 bronze players on your team EVERY single match for EVERY season while the other team has a mix of high silvers and low golds.** > > This is how the matches would go: > > 1. You would win whatever fight on the node you are at. > 2. Your team loses the rest of the map. > 3. You lose the game unless you do one of two things: > - You can completely nuke someone under 15-20 seconds at your point and nuke someone at the teamfight before any of your teammates get stomped. > - Hold 1v2 on your cap or 1v3 on a neutral cap all game while sometimes winning. > > What would you do about it? After more than a year of getting put into matches where your entire team consists people drastically below your skill level, you'd want to play with a friend to ease the frustration. > > But wait! YOU CAN'T. You're stuck in these matches with no way to win unless you sweat your kitten off every time to climb with that nice 65% or higher win ratio. > _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > > And for the other two divisions: > > 1. **If you're silver, imagine always getting matched up with people who keyboard turn and skill click everything while 3 capping home.** > 2. **If you're bronze, imagine never having a team at all.** > _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > > How would you feel? > > Pretty much this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadMed.3846 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"BadMed.3846" said: > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > But by all means, keep voting no so that the good players keep GW2 uninstalled so you get matched up against whatever remaining pros still play more and more frequently. > > We're at a point where we have a large pool of beginners and average players who want a fair gameplay experience. The above average pool is small and trying to be selfish with their demands. Duo queue only allows such players to abuse the game mode. We don't need it. Those who uninstalled may go wherever they like. We don't really care. > > > > Also, all players are entitled to vote. Any sort of vote for elite players only would be discriminating in nature to begin with. All players must have a say in this. > > You're actually so wrong lol > > "All the good players can leave because us bad players don't care." > Your brain would hurt less and you'll get the point if you try to understand that there's no good or bad players. There are players at different skill levels and they all are entitled to enjoy the game. They paid same as the handful of your so called 'top players'. There are no pro players as we're well past that era. > No. Any vote that ONLY affects the top players should not take into account random bronze/silver/gold tier randoms' opinions. That's actually such a terrible decision to listen to people who have both poor mechanics AND a poor understanding of the game. > Listening to the wider population to make decisions that affect the future of a game mode is the only wise way. Listening to a handful of loud 1600+ only is a joke in itself. > Also, funny you should mention selfishness. Like how low rated players voted to BAN players from playing with their friends in an MMO under the twisted delusion that somehow duos TWO ENTIRE divisions higher than them affects their matches. Speak of selfish. While you're at it, let's consult some bronze tier players about balance advice because apparently knowing how to move and press buttons at the same time is too hard and must be made fair for people who can't. > Don't get me started on that please. Let's just say they still got away easy. You're sounding like an elitist. Please present a wiser well thought out argument instead. > Even worse, Anet listened to them. No wonder all the good players think this game is a joke. Again. Those are a small bunch of loudmouth jokers who will think everything is a joke. You're representing an extremely small SELFISH minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadMed.3846 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 > @"Legatus.3608" said: > > @"Solaerin.8635" said: > > > @"BadMed.3846" said: > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > But by all means, keep voting no so that the good players keep GW2 uninstalled so you get matched up against whatever remaining pros still play more and more frequently. > > > We're at a point where we have a large pool of beginners and average players who want a fair gameplay experience. The above average pool is small and trying to be selfish with their demands. Duo queue only allows such players to abuse the game mode. We don't need it. Those who uninstalled may go wherever they like. We don't really care. > > > > > > Also, all players are entitled to vote. Any sort of vote for elite players only would be discriminating in nature to begin with. All players must have a say in this. > > 'Beginner' and 'average players' would be less likely to be put in 'unfair' games matched against plat 2/3 players if we allowed duo queue because more plat 2/3 players would actually want to play the game. Like, I don't understand how this is hard to understand > > > @"Legatus.3608" said: > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > > > > @"Revilrad.1962" said: > > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > > > > > > @"Revilrad.1962" said: > > > > > > > > @"Solaerin.8635" said: > > > > > > > > Anet should just let people play with their friends in PvP imho > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The previous poster brings up a very solid point that I hope doesn't get overlooked: really good players being forced into unranked when they want to play with their friends isn't good for anyone, least of all the new players that are just trying to get their bearings and end up getting steamrolled > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol I love it how the yes sayers reduce it to "let me play with my friends". You do not want to play with your friends. That sounds waaay to harmless. What you want is to steamroll silver/gold soloqueuers with your platinum friend. > > > > > > > > > > > > Only, most of us don't need a platinum friend to steamroll silvers and golds. > > > > > > > > > > Then there is no problem? If you can steamroll "noobs" alone why are you complaining about the need of having a buddy with you? If you can steamroll noobs then it doesnt matter if your team has noobs too. > > > > > > > > You can't possibly be this thick headed. I don't care about rofl-stomping some random kitten. I literally just want to be able to play with friends. Unranked is not enough, as the games are incredibly unbalanced. > > > > > > > > Do you understand? I don't care about my rating, I don't care about winning or losing. I care about playing with friends and enjoying myself in an online game. > > > > > > I don't believe you're asking for duo because you want to create lopsided games, I do believe you genuinely just want to play with your friends, as a lot of other people do also. However, your arguments have a lot of really obvious holes that lead me to believe you haven't actually thought this out. You seem to want balanced games but you also want to play with your friends, and that's the problem. > > > > > > The bottom line here is you have two choices: > > > 1. Play with your friends > > > 2. Play balanced games > > > > > > The two concepts are against each other, you cannot vote for both. The matchmaker is already strained as it is, duo is only making it worse. It is currently already a lot worse under 1600. In fact, if anet were to release numbers I suspect it would be much, much worse than you think - in terms of average score difference in games containing a duo vs games not containing a duo. You can already visibly observe this by dropping low enough to consistently get games under the 1600 level. > > It's wild that you've repeated this same absurd argument that duo queue and balanced games are mutually exclusive without any evidence for the umpteenth time and it still isn't true > > It's wild that you're arguing against something that's logically obvious without any evidence for the umpteenth time that it "isn't true" when it very clearly is. Well made point I guess? > > Why do you need evidence to understand that there are inherent advantages to being in a duo relative to queuing solo? You really aren't able to figure that out? Do I need to list them for you? > > Pretty clear denial of the obvious just to get what you want. It's wild that you ignore the whole argument and stop your foot to claim that everyone should share your views and understanding. It's obvious that you cracked a joke and we all laughed. It's even more obvit that you post makes no sense. Why dont you take time to read that there are inherent disadvantages to having a duo queue for a single player leaderboard based game mode. Every game mode has a purpose. Duo queue just does not align with ranked game mode purpose and associated recognition. I won't be the number one player anytime soon. But I'd like to see the number 1 player who made it there on their own merit. Rising from any tier. No crutches needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner.4621 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 Just a two cents from someone who was extremely active in GW1 pvp and enjoys PvP in many other MMOs but is not active in GW2 pvp... Any game mode loses players over time, especially the top ones who get bored and move on to the next big thing. I've seen it happen time after time in other games, and this one is no exception from what I can tell. The problem is that it's not getting new ones to replace them, not that it keeps losing the old. Whatever sPvPs other problems, the biggest reason it doesn't get a lot of "fresh blood" is a combination of the active PvP community constantly and vocally informing everyone how bad PvP is, and as someone else listed the fact that the game mode probably does need rebalanced towards fights lasting a little longer at lower tiers so that beginners don't get quite as frustrated early on, or chased away before they even start. For my own part, another big issue is that there is only a single ranked PvP mode... Conquest. Dull... I like variety in my PvP... capture the flag, king of the hill, some conquest is fine, death match, etc. I was pretty optimistic for the potential of stronghold, but it was never meant to be a leaderboard style competitive game mode so no one ever bothered playing it, and ANet never bothered improving it as a result. TL;DR, no amount of DuoQ is going to fix the issues with PvP, and there is a definite culture problem scaring people away from even joining the game mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 > @"BadMed.3846" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"BadMed.3846" said: > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > But by all means, keep voting no so that the good players keep GW2 uninstalled so you get matched up against whatever remaining pros still play more and more frequently. > > > We're at a point where we have a large pool of beginners and average players who want a fair gameplay experience. The above average pool is small and trying to be selfish with their demands. Duo queue only allows such players to abuse the game mode. We don't need it. Those who uninstalled may go wherever they like. We don't really care. > > > > > > Also, all players are entitled to vote. Any sort of vote for elite players only would be discriminating in nature to begin with. All players must have a say in this. > > > > You're actually so wrong lol > > > > "All the good players can leave because us bad players don't care." > > > Your brain would hurt less and you'll get the point if you try to understand that there's no good or bad players. There are players at different skill levels and they all are entitled to enjoy the game. They paid same as the handful of your so called 'top players'. There are no pro players as we're well past that era. > > > No. Any vote that ONLY affects the top players should not take into account random bronze/silver/gold tier randoms' opinions. That's actually such a terrible decision to listen to people who have both poor mechanics AND a poor understanding of the game. > > > Listening to the wider population to make decisions that affect the future of a game mode is the only wise way. Listening to a handful of loud 1600+ only is a joke in itself. > > > Also, funny you should mention selfishness. Like how low rated players voted to BAN players from playing with their friends in an MMO under the twisted delusion that somehow duos TWO ENTIRE divisions higher than them affects their matches. Speak of selfish. While you're at it, let's consult some bronze tier players about balance advice because apparently knowing how to move and press buttons at the same time is too hard and must be made fair for people who can't. > > > Don't get me started on that please. Let's just say they still got away easy. > You're sounding like an elitist. Please present a wiser well thought out argument instead. > > > Even worse, Anet listened to them. No wonder all the good players think this game is a joke. > Again. Those are a small bunch of loudmouth jokers who will think everything is a joke. You're representing an extremely small SELFISH minority. > "There are no good or bad players." - BadMed Really? How do I argue against someone who's this deluded? Have you ever heard of [populism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populism)? Because you're preaching the exact definition of it. It is defined as, "an ideology which posits "the people" as a morally good force against "the elite", who are perceived as corrupt." For the record, it doesn't work. You SHOULD listen to the good players because they obviously have a better grasp of both mechanics and how the game works. Why the hell would you trust a garbage player with ANY design decisions that affect the entire game? Wiser, well thought out argument? How about you present ANY argument that isn't entirely anecdotal or dismissive of the other person's points without providing ANY evidence at all to prove otherwise. All of you people are the same, just keep throwing out buzzwords like: minority, fair, selfish, abuse, entitlement. It's funny that you should mention entitlement. Please explain to me why you believe people below the 1600 rating threshold have more weight behind their words than people below it. Why should good players' opinions not matter? In your own words, we all paid the same amount. Why do we get the short end of the stick? Jealousy maybe? Again, when I say you're wrong about basically everything, you are. But keep screaming "selfish small minority" until you're blue in the face. It doesn't change the fact that suggestions like yours are what killed the gamemode in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witcher.3197 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 I wasn't a fan of soloQ initially but I kinda accepted the decision. Having a queue where individuals can rise to the top only based on personal achievement sounded good. But that's not what happened. The competitive players simply evaporated because match quality took a significant hit, and their exodus made it exponentially worse. We're at a point where even previously mediocre players are quitting because even they can't enjoy the match quality anymore, it's gotten unbearable. Making people SOLO in CONQUEST, a strategical team based 5v5 mode where communication is key, was beyond stupid. It's just not working. Ranked is a living hell not to mention solo defeats the purpose of an MMO as well.. I won't touch it until I can at least play with 1 other friend. If i have any friends still playing by the time Anet is willing to corret things, that is.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus.3608 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > @"Legatus.3608" said: > > > @"Solaerin.8635" said: > > > > @"BadMed.3846" said: > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > But by all means, keep voting no so that the good players keep GW2 uninstalled so you get matched up against whatever remaining pros still play more and more frequently. > > > > We're at a point where we have a large pool of beginners and average players who want a fair gameplay experience. The above average pool is small and trying to be selfish with their demands. Duo queue only allows such players to abuse the game mode. We don't need it. Those who uninstalled may go wherever they like. We don't really care. > > > > > > > > Also, all players are entitled to vote. Any sort of vote for elite players only would be discriminating in nature to begin with. All players must have a say in this. > > > 'Beginner' and 'average players' would be less likely to be put in 'unfair' games matched against plat 2/3 players if we allowed duo queue because more plat 2/3 players would actually want to play the game. Like, I don't understand how this is hard to understand > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said: > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > > > > > @"Revilrad.1962" said: > > > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > > > > > > > @"Revilrad.1962" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Solaerin.8635" said: > > > > > > > > > Anet should just let people play with their friends in PvP imho > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The previous poster brings up a very solid point that I hope doesn't get overlooked: really good players being forced into unranked when they want to play with their friends isn't good for anyone, least of all the new players that are just trying to get their bearings and end up getting steamrolled > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol I love it how the yes sayers reduce it to "let me play with my friends". You do not want to play with your friends. That sounds waaay to harmless. What you want is to steamroll silver/gold soloqueuers with your platinum friend. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only, most of us don't need a platinum friend to steamroll silvers and golds. > > > > > > > > > > > > Then there is no problem? If you can steamroll "noobs" alone why are you complaining about the need of having a buddy with you? If you can steamroll noobs then it doesnt matter if your team has noobs too. > > > > > > > > > > You can't possibly be this thick headed. I don't care about rofl-stomping some random kitten. I literally just want to be able to play with friends. Unranked is not enough, as the games are incredibly unbalanced. > > > > > > > > > > Do you understand? I don't care about my rating, I don't care about winning or losing. I care about playing with friends and enjoying myself in an online game. > > > > > > > > I don't believe you're asking for duo because you want to create lopsided games, I do believe you genuinely just want to play with your friends, as a lot of other people do also. However, your arguments have a lot of really obvious holes that lead me to believe you haven't actually thought this out. You seem to want balanced games but you also want to play with your friends, and that's the problem. > > > > > > > > The bottom line here is you have two choices: > > > > 1. Play with your friends > > > > 2. Play balanced games > > > > > > > > The two concepts are against each other, you cannot vote for both. The matchmaker is already strained as it is, duo is only making it worse. It is currently already a lot worse under 1600. In fact, if anet were to release numbers I suspect it would be much, much worse than you think - in terms of average score difference in games containing a duo vs games not containing a duo. You can already visibly observe this by dropping low enough to consistently get games under the 1600 level. > > > It's wild that you've repeated this same absurd argument that duo queue and balanced games are mutually exclusive without any evidence for the umpteenth time and it still isn't true > > > > It's wild that you're arguing against something that's logically obvious without any evidence for the umpteenth time that it "isn't true" when it very clearly is. Well made point I guess? > > > > Why do you need evidence to understand that there are inherent advantages to being in a duo relative to queuing solo? You really aren't able to figure that out? Do I need to list them for you? > > > > Pretty clear denial of the obvious just to get what you want. > > And there is the obvious adjustment to rating that is applied to Duo Q partners where they get an inflated rating and get paired against players with higher ratings and paired with lower rated players to offset. Assuming that this offsets the duo is a failed logic. In fact I don't think it's even a logic at all, I think you know factually that a simple rating adjustment will never offset a duo queuing as a specific team composition and are choosing to ignore that fact. Go ahead and ask arenanet to post the numbers. It won't take a lot of effort to show who is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus.3608 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 > @"BadMed.3846" said: > > @"Legatus.3608" said: > > > @"Solaerin.8635" said: > > > > @"BadMed.3846" said: > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > But by all means, keep voting no so that the good players keep GW2 uninstalled so you get matched up against whatever remaining pros still play more and more frequently. > > > > We're at a point where we have a large pool of beginners and average players who want a fair gameplay experience. The above average pool is small and trying to be selfish with their demands. Duo queue only allows such players to abuse the game mode. We don't need it. Those who uninstalled may go wherever they like. We don't really care. > > > > > > > > Also, all players are entitled to vote. Any sort of vote for elite players only would be discriminating in nature to begin with. All players must have a say in this. > > > 'Beginner' and 'average players' would be less likely to be put in 'unfair' games matched against plat 2/3 players if we allowed duo queue because more plat 2/3 players would actually want to play the game. Like, I don't understand how this is hard to understand > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said: > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > > > > > @"Revilrad.1962" said: > > > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > > > > > > > @"Revilrad.1962" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Solaerin.8635" said: > > > > > > > > > Anet should just let people play with their friends in PvP imho > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The previous poster brings up a very solid point that I hope doesn't get overlooked: really good players being forced into unranked when they want to play with their friends isn't good for anyone, least of all the new players that are just trying to get their bearings and end up getting steamrolled > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol I love it how the yes sayers reduce it to "let me play with my friends". You do not want to play with your friends. That sounds waaay to harmless. What you want is to steamroll silver/gold soloqueuers with your platinum friend. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only, most of us don't need a platinum friend to steamroll silvers and golds. > > > > > > > > > > > > Then there is no problem? If you can steamroll "noobs" alone why are you complaining about the need of having a buddy with you? If you can steamroll noobs then it doesnt matter if your team has noobs too. > > > > > > > > > > You can't possibly be this thick headed. I don't care about rofl-stomping some random kitten. I literally just want to be able to play with friends. Unranked is not enough, as the games are incredibly unbalanced. > > > > > > > > > > Do you understand? I don't care about my rating, I don't care about winning or losing. I care about playing with friends and enjoying myself in an online game. > > > > > > > > I don't believe you're asking for duo because you want to create lopsided games, I do believe you genuinely just want to play with your friends, as a lot of other people do also. However, your arguments have a lot of really obvious holes that lead me to believe you haven't actually thought this out. You seem to want balanced games but you also want to play with your friends, and that's the problem. > > > > > > > > The bottom line here is you have two choices: > > > > 1. Play with your friends > > > > 2. Play balanced games > > > > > > > > The two concepts are against each other, you cannot vote for both. The matchmaker is already strained as it is, duo is only making it worse. It is currently already a lot worse under 1600. In fact, if anet were to release numbers I suspect it would be much, much worse than you think - in terms of average score difference in games containing a duo vs games not containing a duo. You can already visibly observe this by dropping low enough to consistently get games under the 1600 level. > > > It's wild that you've repeated this same absurd argument that duo queue and balanced games are mutually exclusive without any evidence for the umpteenth time and it still isn't true > > > > It's wild that you're arguing against something that's logically obvious without any evidence for the umpteenth time that it "isn't true" when it very clearly is. Well made point I guess? > > > > Why do you need evidence to understand that there are inherent advantages to being in a duo relative to queuing solo? You really aren't able to figure that out? Do I need to list them for you? > > > > Pretty clear denial of the obvious just to get what you want. > > It's wild that you ignore the whole argument and stop your foot to claim that everyone should share your views and understanding. > > It's obvious that you cracked a joke and we all laughed. > It's even more obvit that you post makes no sense. > > Why dont you take time to read that there are inherent disadvantages to having a duo queue for a single player leaderboard based game mode. Every game mode has a purpose. Duo queue just does not align with ranked game mode purpose and associated recognition. > > I won't be the number one player anytime soon. But I'd like to see the number 1 player who made it there on their own merit. Rising from any tier. No crutches needed. "Obvious" to you and your buddies who want duo queue? It's funny that you think that since the public has voted 52% to remove duo/keep restriction on duo queue. This is what happens when a group of people who agree on something sit around talking about it instead of learning outside views. "Wow, look how many of us want duo queue! Nobody in this chat wants duo restriction! Obviously everyone doesn't want duo!" It's termed an echo chamber, might want to go educate yourself on that. You're factually incorrect, the numbers are right there on page 1 buddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus.3608 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 delete post pls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucentfir.7430 Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 > @"witcher.3197" said: > I wasn't a fan of soloQ initially but I kinda accepted the decision. Having a queue where individuals can rise to the top only based on personal achievement sounded good. > > But that's not what happened. The competitive players simply evaporated because match quality took a significant hit, and their exodus made it exponentially worse. We're at a point where even previously mediocre players are quitting because even they can't enjoy the match quality anymore, it's gotten unbearable. > > Making people SOLO in CONQUEST, a strategical team based 5v5 mode where communication is key, was beyond stupid. It's just not working. Ranked is a living hell not to mention solo defeats the purpose of an MMO as well.. I won't touch it until I can at least play with 1 other friend. If i have any friends still playing by the time Anet is willing to corret things, that is.. It would have worked but frankly our top end players at the time didn't seem to have a problem not caring about competative integrity for everyone else. You know with exploitive/shady practices. Getting so bad to the point we had top spot selling, match manipulation, and heck they went even as far as to sell MATs. Looking from inside and outside the game why would you want to be competative in this game knowing repeat offenders pretty much get away with those sort of behaviors? Though considering that big competative scene is dead, I'd support a separate Multi-man ranked queue like the old core GW2 days, but it has to be it's own queue separate from solo ranked. Just for the sake of having more options available to people to have fun with. Also still waiting and looking forward to those swiss-ATs for 2v2s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witcher.3197 Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > @"witcher.3197" said: > > I wasn't a fan of soloQ initially but I kinda accepted the decision. Having a queue where individuals can rise to the top only based on personal achievement sounded good. > > > > But that's not what happened. The competitive players simply evaporated because match quality took a significant hit, and their exodus made it exponentially worse. We're at a point where even previously mediocre players are quitting because even they can't enjoy the match quality anymore, it's gotten unbearable. > > > > Making people SOLO in CONQUEST, a strategical team based 5v5 mode where communication is key, was beyond stupid. It's just not working. Ranked is a living hell not to mention solo defeats the purpose of an MMO as well.. I won't touch it until I can at least play with 1 other friend. If i have any friends still playing by the time Anet is willing to corret things, that is.. > > It would have worked but frankly our top end players at the time didn't seem to have a problem not caring about competative integrity for everyone else. You know with exploitive/shady practices. Getting so bad to the point we had top spot selling, match manipulation, and heck they went even as far as to sell MATs. Looking from inside and outside the game why would you want to be competative in this game knowing repeat offenders pretty much get away with those sort of behaviors? Though considering that big competative scene is dead, I'd support a separate Multi-man ranked queue like the old core GW2 days, but it has to be it's own queue separate from solo ranked. Just for the sake of having more options available to people to have fun with. Also still waiting and looking forward to those swiss-ATs for 2v2s. If there was any ranked option other than solo then solo would die because people wouldn't play it. How do I know it? _Because it happened once before._ I wish Anet had better memory. When we had a dedicated soloQ and a "teamQ" (technically you could queue with any party size), people actually started playing the teamQ solo because match quality was better. I think that says it all. Forcing people to solo just kills the game. And what's your point anyways? People wintrade and match manipulate in solo too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaerin.8635 Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 > @"Legatus.3608" said: > > @"Solaerin.8635" said: > > > @"BadMed.3846" said: > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > But by all means, keep voting no so that the good players keep GW2 uninstalled so you get matched up against whatever remaining pros still play more and more frequently. > > > We're at a point where we have a large pool of beginners and average players who want a fair gameplay experience. The above average pool is small and trying to be selfish with their demands. Duo queue only allows such players to abuse the game mode. We don't need it. Those who uninstalled may go wherever they like. We don't really care. > > > > > > Also, all players are entitled to vote. Any sort of vote for elite players only would be discriminating in nature to begin with. All players must have a say in this. > > 'Beginner' and 'average players' would be less likely to be put in 'unfair' games matched against plat 2/3 players if we allowed duo queue because more plat 2/3 players would actually want to play the game. Like, I don't understand how this is hard to understand > > > @"Legatus.3608" said: > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > > > > @"Revilrad.1962" said: > > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > > > > > > @"Revilrad.1962" said: > > > > > > > > @"Solaerin.8635" said: > > > > > > > > Anet should just let people play with their friends in PvP imho > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The previous poster brings up a very solid point that I hope doesn't get overlooked: really good players being forced into unranked when they want to play with their friends isn't good for anyone, least of all the new players that are just trying to get their bearings and end up getting steamrolled > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol I love it how the yes sayers reduce it to "let me play with my friends". You do not want to play with your friends. That sounds waaay to harmless. What you want is to steamroll silver/gold soloqueuers with your platinum friend. > > > > > > > > > > > > Only, most of us don't need a platinum friend to steamroll silvers and golds. > > > > > > > > > > Then there is no problem? If you can steamroll "noobs" alone why are you complaining about the need of having a buddy with you? If you can steamroll noobs then it doesnt matter if your team has noobs too. > > > > > > > > You can't possibly be this thick headed. I don't care about rofl-stomping some random kitten. I literally just want to be able to play with friends. Unranked is not enough, as the games are incredibly unbalanced. > > > > > > > > Do you understand? I don't care about my rating, I don't care about winning or losing. I care about playing with friends and enjoying myself in an online game. > > > > > > I don't believe you're asking for duo because you want to create lopsided games, I do believe you genuinely just want to play with your friends, as a lot of other people do also. However, your arguments have a lot of really obvious holes that lead me to believe you haven't actually thought this out. You seem to want balanced games but you also want to play with your friends, and that's the problem. > > > > > > The bottom line here is you have two choices: > > > 1. Play with your friends > > > 2. Play balanced games > > > > > > The two concepts are against each other, you cannot vote for both. The matchmaker is already strained as it is, duo is only making it worse. It is currently already a lot worse under 1600. In fact, if anet were to release numbers I suspect it would be much, much worse than you think - in terms of average score difference in games containing a duo vs games not containing a duo. You can already visibly observe this by dropping low enough to consistently get games under the 1600 level. > > It's wild that you've repeated this same absurd argument that duo queue and balanced games are mutually exclusive without any evidence for the umpteenth time and it still isn't true > > It's wild that you're arguing against something that's logically obvious without any evidence for the umpteenth time that it "isn't true" when it very clearly is. Well made point I guess? > > Why do you need evidence to understand that there are inherent advantages to being in a duo relative to queuing solo? You really aren't able to figure that out? Do I need to list them for you? > > Pretty clear denial of the obvious just to get what you want. Do you think this is actually an effective argument tactic, to never actually present any premises or evidence of any kind and just assert that your conclusion is so "logically obvious" that you'd have to be in denial to not agree with it? Maybe you can try and list out all of the 'inherent advantages' of duo queue that would preclude the possibility of games being balanced or competitive, it'd be the first substantive thing you'd have posted in this entire thread. Meanwhile, the thing that is _actually_ killing the competitiveness of ranked queue is the fact that so few good players are still queuing ranked, specifically because of dumb shit like forcing them to play by themselves in an online game, that the matchmaker has to grab players from gold and silver to fill out teams for the highest-rated players on the leaderboard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus.3608 Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 > @"Solaerin.8635" said: > > @"Legatus.3608" said: > > > @"Solaerin.8635" said: > > > > @"BadMed.3846" said: > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > But by all means, keep voting no so that the good players keep GW2 uninstalled so you get matched up against whatever remaining pros still play more and more frequently. > > > > We're at a point where we have a large pool of beginners and average players who want a fair gameplay experience. The above average pool is small and trying to be selfish with their demands. Duo queue only allows such players to abuse the game mode. We don't need it. Those who uninstalled may go wherever they like. We don't really care. > > > > > > > > Also, all players are entitled to vote. Any sort of vote for elite players only would be discriminating in nature to begin with. All players must have a say in this. > > > 'Beginner' and 'average players' would be less likely to be put in 'unfair' games matched against plat 2/3 players if we allowed duo queue because more plat 2/3 players would actually want to play the game. Like, I don't understand how this is hard to understand > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said: > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > > > > > @"Revilrad.1962" said: > > > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > > > > > > > @"Revilrad.1962" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Solaerin.8635" said: > > > > > > > > > Anet should just let people play with their friends in PvP imho > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The previous poster brings up a very solid point that I hope doesn't get overlooked: really good players being forced into unranked when they want to play with their friends isn't good for anyone, least of all the new players that are just trying to get their bearings and end up getting steamrolled > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol I love it how the yes sayers reduce it to "let me play with my friends". You do not want to play with your friends. That sounds waaay to harmless. What you want is to steamroll silver/gold soloqueuers with your platinum friend. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only, most of us don't need a platinum friend to steamroll silvers and golds. > > > > > > > > > > > > Then there is no problem? If you can steamroll "noobs" alone why are you complaining about the need of having a buddy with you? If you can steamroll noobs then it doesnt matter if your team has noobs too. > > > > > > > > > > You can't possibly be this thick headed. I don't care about rofl-stomping some random kitten. I literally just want to be able to play with friends. Unranked is not enough, as the games are incredibly unbalanced. > > > > > > > > > > Do you understand? I don't care about my rating, I don't care about winning or losing. I care about playing with friends and enjoying myself in an online game. > > > > > > > > I don't believe you're asking for duo because you want to create lopsided games, I do believe you genuinely just want to play with your friends, as a lot of other people do also. However, your arguments have a lot of really obvious holes that lead me to believe you haven't actually thought this out. You seem to want balanced games but you also want to play with your friends, and that's the problem. > > > > > > > > The bottom line here is you have two choices: > > > > 1. Play with your friends > > > > 2. Play balanced games > > > > > > > > The two concepts are against each other, you cannot vote for both. The matchmaker is already strained as it is, duo is only making it worse. It is currently already a lot worse under 1600. In fact, if anet were to release numbers I suspect it would be much, much worse than you think - in terms of average score difference in games containing a duo vs games not containing a duo. You can already visibly observe this by dropping low enough to consistently get games under the 1600 level. > > > It's wild that you've repeated this same absurd argument that duo queue and balanced games are mutually exclusive without any evidence for the umpteenth time and it still isn't true > > > > It's wild that you're arguing against something that's logically obvious without any evidence for the umpteenth time that it "isn't true" when it very clearly is. Well made point I guess? > > > > Why do you need evidence to understand that there are inherent advantages to being in a duo relative to queuing solo? You really aren't able to figure that out? Do I need to list them for you? > > > > Pretty clear denial of the obvious just to get what you want. > Do you think this is actually an effective argument tactic, to never actually present any premises or evidence of any kind and just assert that your conclusion is so "logically obvious" that you'd have to be in denial to not agree with it? Maybe you can try and list out all of the 'inherent advantages' of duo queue that would preclude the possibility of games being balanced or competitive, it'd be the first substantive thing you'd have posted in this entire thread. > > Meanwhile, the thing that is _actually_ killing the competitiveness of ranked queue is the fact that so few good players are still queuing ranked, specifically because of dumb kitten like forcing them to play by themselves in an online game, that the matchmaker has to grab players from gold and silver to fill out teams for the highest-rated players on the leaderboard The results of the vote, yet again, doesn't count as premises or evidence in your eyes? The obvious fact that two people can carry game easier than one person requires proof to you? Nah, it's pretty clear which one of us is ignoring facts to promote an agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinful.2165 Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 > @"Legatus.3608" said: > > @"Solaerin.8635" said: > > > @"Legatus.3608" said: > > > > @"Solaerin.8635" said: > > > > > @"BadMed.3846" said: > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > But by all means, keep voting no so that the good players keep GW2 uninstalled so you get matched up against whatever remaining pros still play more and more frequently. > > > > > We're at a point where we have a large pool of beginners and average players who want a fair gameplay experience. The above average pool is small and trying to be selfish with their demands. Duo queue only allows such players to abuse the game mode. We don't need it. Those who uninstalled may go wherever they like. We don't really care. > > > > > > > > > > Also, all players are entitled to vote. Any sort of vote for elite players only would be discriminating in nature to begin with. All players must have a say in this. > > > > 'Beginner' and 'average players' would be less likely to be put in 'unfair' games matched against plat 2/3 players if we allowed duo queue because more plat 2/3 players would actually want to play the game. Like, I don't understand how this is hard to understand > > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said: > > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > > > > > > @"Revilrad.1962" said: > > > > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Revilrad.1962" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Solaerin.8635" said: > > > > > > > > > > Anet should just let people play with their friends in PvP imho > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The previous poster brings up a very solid point that I hope doesn't get overlooked: really good players being forced into unranked when they want to play with their friends isn't good for anyone, least of all the new players that are just trying to get their bearings and end up getting steamrolled > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol I love it how the yes sayers reduce it to "let me play with my friends". You do not want to play with your friends. That sounds waaay to harmless. What you want is to steamroll silver/gold soloqueuers with your platinum friend. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only, most of us don't need a platinum friend to steamroll silvers and golds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then there is no problem? If you can steamroll "noobs" alone why are you complaining about the need of having a buddy with you? If you can steamroll noobs then it doesnt matter if your team has noobs too. > > > > > > > > > > > > You can't possibly be this thick headed. I don't care about rofl-stomping some random kitten. I literally just want to be able to play with friends. Unranked is not enough, as the games are incredibly unbalanced. > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you understand? I don't care about my rating, I don't care about winning or losing. I care about playing with friends and enjoying myself in an online game. > > > > > > > > > > I don't believe you're asking for duo because you want to create lopsided games, I do believe you genuinely just want to play with your friends, as a lot of other people do also. However, your arguments have a lot of really obvious holes that lead me to believe you haven't actually thought this out. You seem to want balanced games but you also want to play with your friends, and that's the problem. > > > > > > > > > > The bottom line here is you have two choices: > > > > > 1. Play with your friends > > > > > 2. Play balanced games > > > > > > > > > > The two concepts are against each other, you cannot vote for both. The matchmaker is already strained as it is, duo is only making it worse. It is currently already a lot worse under 1600. In fact, if anet were to release numbers I suspect it would be much, much worse than you think - in terms of average score difference in games containing a duo vs games not containing a duo. You can already visibly observe this by dropping low enough to consistently get games under the 1600 level. > > > > It's wild that you've repeated this same absurd argument that duo queue and balanced games are mutually exclusive without any evidence for the umpteenth time and it still isn't true > > > > > > It's wild that you're arguing against something that's logically obvious without any evidence for the umpteenth time that it "isn't true" when it very clearly is. Well made point I guess? > > > > > > Why do you need evidence to understand that there are inherent advantages to being in a duo relative to queuing solo? You really aren't able to figure that out? Do I need to list them for you? > > > > > > Pretty clear denial of the obvious just to get what you want. > > Do you think this is actually an effective argument tactic, to never actually present any premises or evidence of any kind and just assert that your conclusion is so "logically obvious" that you'd have to be in denial to not agree with it? Maybe you can try and list out all of the 'inherent advantages' of duo queue that would preclude the possibility of games being balanced or competitive, it'd be the first substantive thing you'd have posted in this entire thread. > > > > Meanwhile, the thing that is _actually_ killing the competitiveness of ranked queue is the fact that so few good players are still queuing ranked, specifically because of dumb kitten like forcing them to play by themselves in an online game, that the matchmaker has to grab players from gold and silver to fill out teams for the highest-rated players on the leaderboard > > The results of the vote, yet again, doesn't count as premises or evidence in your eyes? > > The obvious fact that two people can carry game easier than one person requires proof to you? > > Nah, it's pretty clear which one of us is ignoring facts to promote an agenda. People voting no are by and large not affected by the proposed change. Not in the way they think anyway. They ARE affected by the fact that PvP is hemorrhaging players because of stupid restrictions like not being able to play together which ironically is what they are supporting. They AREN’T affected by the resulting duos in the top rating matches. The only reason they ever even see these players is because the MMR is scraping the bottom of the barrel to pull together teams but again that’s because of the reason stated above. By all means you scrubcakes can vote no to people playing with their friends (as if there isn’t STILL rampant match manipulation happening at the top of the leaderboard with the solo restriction in place) and eventually you can have ‘competitive’ balanced matches between equally terrible players because all the good players left to play a better PvP game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math.5123 Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 > @"Sinful.2165" said: > > @"Legatus.3608" said: > > > @"Solaerin.8635" said: > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said: > > > > > @"Solaerin.8635" said: > > > > > > @"BadMed.3846" said: > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > But by all means, keep voting no so that the good players keep GW2 uninstalled so you get matched up against whatever remaining pros still play more and more frequently. > > > > > > We're at a point where we have a large pool of beginners and average players who want a fair gameplay experience. The above average pool is small and trying to be selfish with their demands. Duo queue only allows such players to abuse the game mode. We don't need it. Those who uninstalled may go wherever they like. We don't really care. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, all players are entitled to vote. Any sort of vote for elite players only would be discriminating in nature to begin with. All players must have a say in this. > > > > > 'Beginner' and 'average players' would be less likely to be put in 'unfair' games matched against plat 2/3 players if we allowed duo queue because more plat 2/3 players would actually want to play the game. Like, I don't understand how this is hard to understand > > > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said: > > > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > > > > > > > @"Revilrad.1962" said: > > > > > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Revilrad.1962" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Solaerin.8635" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Anet should just let people play with their friends in PvP imho > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The previous poster brings up a very solid point that I hope doesn't get overlooked: really good players being forced into unranked when they want to play with their friends isn't good for anyone, least of all the new players that are just trying to get their bearings and end up getting steamrolled > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol I love it how the yes sayers reduce it to "let me play with my friends". You do not want to play with your friends. That sounds waaay to harmless. What you want is to steamroll silver/gold soloqueuers with your platinum friend. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only, most of us don't need a platinum friend to steamroll silvers and golds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then there is no problem? If you can steamroll "noobs" alone why are you complaining about the need of having a buddy with you? If you can steamroll noobs then it doesnt matter if your team has noobs too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can't possibly be this thick headed. I don't care about rofl-stomping some random kitten. I literally just want to be able to play with friends. Unranked is not enough, as the games are incredibly unbalanced. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you understand? I don't care about my rating, I don't care about winning or losing. I care about playing with friends and enjoying myself in an online game. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't believe you're asking for duo because you want to create lopsided games, I do believe you genuinely just want to play with your friends, as a lot of other people do also. However, your arguments have a lot of really obvious holes that lead me to believe you haven't actually thought this out. You seem to want balanced games but you also want to play with your friends, and that's the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > The bottom line here is you have two choices: > > > > > > 1. Play with your friends > > > > > > 2. Play balanced games > > > > > > > > > > > > The two concepts are against each other, you cannot vote for both. The matchmaker is already strained as it is, duo is only making it worse. It is currently already a lot worse under 1600. In fact, if anet were to release numbers I suspect it would be much, much worse than you think - in terms of average score difference in games containing a duo vs games not containing a duo. You can already visibly observe this by dropping low enough to consistently get games under the 1600 level. > > > > > It's wild that you've repeated this same absurd argument that duo queue and balanced games are mutually exclusive without any evidence for the umpteenth time and it still isn't true > > > > > > > > It's wild that you're arguing against something that's logically obvious without any evidence for the umpteenth time that it "isn't true" when it very clearly is. Well made point I guess? > > > > > > > > Why do you need evidence to understand that there are inherent advantages to being in a duo relative to queuing solo? You really aren't able to figure that out? Do I need to list them for you? > > > > > > > > Pretty clear denial of the obvious just to get what you want. > > > Do you think this is actually an effective argument tactic, to never actually present any premises or evidence of any kind and just assert that your conclusion is so "logically obvious" that you'd have to be in denial to not agree with it? Maybe you can try and list out all of the 'inherent advantages' of duo queue that would preclude the possibility of games being balanced or competitive, it'd be the first substantive thing you'd have posted in this entire thread. > > > > > > Meanwhile, the thing that is _actually_ killing the competitiveness of ranked queue is the fact that so few good players are still queuing ranked, specifically because of dumb kitten like forcing them to play by themselves in an online game, that the matchmaker has to grab players from gold and silver to fill out teams for the highest-rated players on the leaderboard > > > > The results of the vote, yet again, doesn't count as premises or evidence in your eyes? > > > > The obvious fact that two people can carry game easier than one person requires proof to you? > > > > Nah, it's pretty clear which one of us is ignoring facts to promote an agenda. > > People voting no are by and large not affected by the proposed change. Not in the way they think anyway. > > They ARE affected by the fact that PvP is hemorrhaging players because of stupid restrictions like not being able to play together which ironically is what they are supporting. > > They AREN’T affected by the resulting duos in the top rating matches. The only reason they ever even see these players is because the MMR is scraping the bottom of the barrel to pull together teams but again that’s because of the reason stated above. > > By all means you scrubcakes can vote no to people playing with their friends (as if there isn’t STILL rampant match manipulation happening at the top of the leaderboard with the solo restriction in place) and eventually you can have ‘competitive’ balanced matches between equally terrible players because all the good players left to play a better PvP game.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burjis.3087 Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 > @"Patrick.2987" said: > No option to vote 'i do not care bout the game at all'? And yet you're here on the forums of a game you claim to not care about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucentfir.7430 Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 > @"witcher.3197" said: > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > @"witcher.3197" said: > > > I wasn't a fan of soloQ initially but I kinda accepted the decision. Having a queue where individuals can rise to the top only based on personal achievement sounded good. > > > > > > But that's not what happened. The competitive players simply evaporated because match quality took a significant hit, and their exodus made it exponentially worse. We're at a point where even previously mediocre players are quitting because even they can't enjoy the match quality anymore, it's gotten unbearable. > > > > > > Making people SOLO in CONQUEST, a strategical team based 5v5 mode where communication is key, was beyond stupid. It's just not working. Ranked is a living hell not to mention solo defeats the purpose of an MMO as well.. I won't touch it until I can at least play with 1 other friend. If i have any friends still playing by the time Anet is willing to corret things, that is.. > > > > It would have worked but frankly our top end players at the time didn't seem to have a problem not caring about competative integrity for everyone else. You know with exploitive/shady practices. Getting so bad to the point we had top spot selling, match manipulation, and heck they went even as far as to sell MATs. Looking from inside and outside the game why would you want to be competative in this game knowing repeat offenders pretty much get away with those sort of behaviors? Though considering that big competative scene is dead, I'd support a separate Multi-man ranked queue like the old core GW2 days, but it has to be it's own queue separate from solo ranked. Just for the sake of having more options available to people to have fun with. Also still waiting and looking forward to those swiss-ATs for 2v2s. > > If there was any ranked option other than solo then solo would die because people wouldn't play it. How do I know it? _Because it happened once before._ I wish Anet had better memory. > > When we had a dedicated soloQ and a "teamQ" (technically you could queue with any party size), people actually started playing the teamQ solo because match quality was better. I think that says it all. Forcing people to solo just kills the game. > > And what's your point anyways? People wintrade and match manipulate in solo too. Please do give a example of when solo was supposedly dead? I've been around since the days they had glory/PvP lockers/tournament ticket system/website leaderboard and I don't recall solo ever being a queue deadland. They merged team queue with solo because there were absurd queue times for matches in team queue. Mixed queue was a bad experience, I remember having to face full Premades and 4 mans of Mist Initiative, DOLO and such with randoms. Those always ended being landslide matches and a waste of time to play. I wouldn't call those quality matches. My point is we had something good going for Spvp, but our top players seem to care more about their image/reward rather than the health of the game mode they play and keeping things fair. As the saying goes "One bad apple ruins the bunch" in this case it's not one apple it's multiple. Geez trying to game the system for easier matches adding a amber smurf to your premades during early league days was a really legit way of getting to where you want to be! Or how about that invisible rating tanking/decay for easier matches? Then we've went a step up as a revamp to the leagues gave us match manipulation, and then transitioned to selling top spots and ATs. It's saddening because having it happen is solo queue just means it's become a sort of standard to expect from the game mode. People know they can get away with it. All these behaviors being more standard/present because it trickle down from the top end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felipe.1807 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > @"Sinful.2165" said: > > > @"Legatus.3608" said: > > > > @"Solaerin.8635" said: > > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said: > > > > > > @"Solaerin.8635" said: > > > > > > > @"BadMed.3846" said: > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > But by all means, keep voting no so that the good players keep GW2 uninstalled so you get matched up against whatever remaining pros still play more and more frequently. > > > > > > > We're at a point where we have a large pool of beginners and average players who want a fair gameplay experience. The above average pool is small and trying to be selfish with their demands. Duo queue only allows such players to abuse the game mode. We don't need it. Those who uninstalled may go wherever they like. We don't really care. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, all players are entitled to vote. Any sort of vote for elite players only would be discriminating in nature to begin with. All players must have a say in this. > > > > > > 'Beginner' and 'average players' would be less likely to be put in 'unfair' games matched against plat 2/3 players if we allowed duo queue because more plat 2/3 players would actually want to play the game. Like, I don't understand how this is hard to understand > > > > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said: > > > > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Revilrad.1962" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Revilrad.1962" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Solaerin.8635" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet should just let people play with their friends in PvP imho > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The previous poster brings up a very solid point that I hope doesn't get overlooked: really good players being forced into unranked when they want to play with their friends isn't good for anyone, least of all the new players that are just trying to get their bearings and end up getting steamrolled > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol I love it how the yes sayers reduce it to "let me play with my friends". You do not want to play with your friends. That sounds waaay to harmless. What you want is to steamroll silver/gold soloqueuers with your platinum friend. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only, most of us don't need a platinum friend to steamroll silvers and golds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then there is no problem? If you can steamroll "noobs" alone why are you complaining about the need of having a buddy with you? If you can steamroll noobs then it doesnt matter if your team has noobs too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can't possibly be this thick headed. I don't care about rofl-stomping some random kitten. I literally just want to be able to play with friends. Unranked is not enough, as the games are incredibly unbalanced. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you understand? I don't care about my rating, I don't care about winning or losing. I care about playing with friends and enjoying myself in an online game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't believe you're asking for duo because you want to create lopsided games, I do believe you genuinely just want to play with your friends, as a lot of other people do also. However, your arguments have a lot of really obvious holes that lead me to believe you haven't actually thought this out. You seem to want balanced games but you also want to play with your friends, and that's the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The bottom line here is you have two choices: > > > > > > > 1. Play with your friends > > > > > > > 2. Play balanced games > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The two concepts are against each other, you cannot vote for both. The matchmaker is already strained as it is, duo is only making it worse. It is currently already a lot worse under 1600. In fact, if anet were to release numbers I suspect it would be much, much worse than you think - in terms of average score difference in games containing a duo vs games not containing a duo. You can already visibly observe this by dropping low enough to consistently get games under the 1600 level. > > > > > > It's wild that you've repeated this same absurd argument that duo queue and balanced games are mutually exclusive without any evidence for the umpteenth time and it still isn't true > > > > > > > > > > It's wild that you're arguing against something that's logically obvious without any evidence for the umpteenth time that it "isn't true" when it very clearly is. Well made point I guess? > > > > > > > > > > Why do you need evidence to understand that there are inherent advantages to being in a duo relative to queuing solo? You really aren't able to figure that out? Do I need to list them for you? > > > > > > > > > > Pretty clear denial of the obvious just to get what you want. > > > > Do you think this is actually an effective argument tactic, to never actually present any premises or evidence of any kind and just assert that your conclusion is so "logically obvious" that you'd have to be in denial to not agree with it? Maybe you can try and list out all of the 'inherent advantages' of duo queue that would preclude the possibility of games being balanced or competitive, it'd be the first substantive thing you'd have posted in this entire thread. > > > > > > > > Meanwhile, the thing that is _actually_ killing the competitiveness of ranked queue is the fact that so few good players are still queuing ranked, specifically because of dumb kitten like forcing them to play by themselves in an online game, that the matchmaker has to grab players from gold and silver to fill out teams for the highest-rated players on the leaderboard > > > > > > The results of the vote, yet again, doesn't count as premises or evidence in your eyes? > > > > > > The obvious fact that two people can carry game easier than one person requires proof to you? > > > > > > Nah, it's pretty clear which one of us is ignoring facts to promote an agenda. > > > > People voting no are by and large not affected by the proposed change. Not in the way they think anyway. > > > > They ARE affected by the fact that PvP is hemorrhaging players because of stupid restrictions like not being able to play together which ironically is what they are supporting. > > > > They AREN’T affected by the resulting duos in the top rating matches. The only reason they ever even see these players is because the MMR is scraping the bottom of the barrel to pull together teams but again that’s because of the reason stated above. > > > > By all means you scrubcakes can vote no to people playing with their friends (as if there isn’t STILL rampant match manipulation happening at the top of the leaderboard with the solo restriction in place) and eventually you can have ‘competitive’ balanced matches between equally terrible players because all the good players left to play a better PvP game. > >  > Jesus, what is this nonsense, "scrubcakes'? lol what a hell man..."[...] you can have ‘competitive’ balanced matches between equally terrible players because all the good players left to play a better PvP game." Why keep bitching about it, just quit the game man, nobody cares...is been said allready many, many times, if all what you want is play with friends, hey i got you man, i have the solution, its called Unranked...whats wrong with you people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinful.2165 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 > @"Felipe.1807" said: > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > > @"Sinful.2165" said: > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said: > > > > > @"Solaerin.8635" said: > > > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said: > > > > > > > @"Solaerin.8635" said: > > > > > > > > @"BadMed.3846" said: > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > But by all means, keep voting no so that the good players keep GW2 uninstalled so you get matched up against whatever remaining pros still play more and more frequently. > > > > > > > > We're at a point where we have a large pool of beginners and average players who want a fair gameplay experience. The above average pool is small and trying to be selfish with their demands. Duo queue only allows such players to abuse the game mode. We don't need it. Those who uninstalled may go wherever they like. We don't really care. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, all players are entitled to vote. Any sort of vote for elite players only would be discriminating in nature to begin with. All players must have a say in this. > > > > > > > 'Beginner' and 'average players' would be less likely to be put in 'unfair' games matched against plat 2/3 players if we allowed duo queue because more plat 2/3 players would actually want to play the game. Like, I don't understand how this is hard to understand > > > > > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said: > > > > > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Revilrad.1962" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Revilrad.1962" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Solaerin.8635" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet should just let people play with their friends in PvP imho > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The previous poster brings up a very solid point that I hope doesn't get overlooked: really good players being forced into unranked when they want to play with their friends isn't good for anyone, least of all the new players that are just trying to get their bearings and end up getting steamrolled > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol I love it how the yes sayers reduce it to "let me play with my friends". You do not want to play with your friends. That sounds waaay to harmless. What you want is to steamroll silver/gold soloqueuers with your platinum friend. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only, most of us don't need a platinum friend to steamroll silvers and golds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then there is no problem? If you can steamroll "noobs" alone why are you complaining about the need of having a buddy with you? If you can steamroll noobs then it doesnt matter if your team has noobs too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can't possibly be this thick headed. I don't care about rofl-stomping some random kitten. I literally just want to be able to play with friends. Unranked is not enough, as the games are incredibly unbalanced. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you understand? I don't care about my rating, I don't care about winning or losing. I care about playing with friends and enjoying myself in an online game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't believe you're asking for duo because you want to create lopsided games, I do believe you genuinely just want to play with your friends, as a lot of other people do also. However, your arguments have a lot of really obvious holes that lead me to believe you haven't actually thought this out. You seem to want balanced games but you also want to play with your friends, and that's the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The bottom line here is you have two choices: > > > > > > > > 1. Play with your friends > > > > > > > > 2. Play balanced games > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The two concepts are against each other, you cannot vote for both. The matchmaker is already strained as it is, duo is only making it worse. It is currently already a lot worse under 1600. In fact, if anet were to release numbers I suspect it would be much, much worse than you think - in terms of average score difference in games containing a duo vs games not containing a duo. You can already visibly observe this by dropping low enough to consistently get games under the 1600 level. > > > > > > > It's wild that you've repeated this same absurd argument that duo queue and balanced games are mutually exclusive without any evidence for the umpteenth time and it still isn't true > > > > > > > > > > > > It's wild that you're arguing against something that's logically obvious without any evidence for the umpteenth time that it "isn't true" when it very clearly is. Well made point I guess? > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do you need evidence to understand that there are inherent advantages to being in a duo relative to queuing solo? You really aren't able to figure that out? Do I need to list them for you? > > > > > > > > > > > > Pretty clear denial of the obvious just to get what you want. > > > > > Do you think this is actually an effective argument tactic, to never actually present any premises or evidence of any kind and just assert that your conclusion is so "logically obvious" that you'd have to be in denial to not agree with it? Maybe you can try and list out all of the 'inherent advantages' of duo queue that would preclude the possibility of games being balanced or competitive, it'd be the first substantive thing you'd have posted in this entire thread. > > > > > > > > > > Meanwhile, the thing that is _actually_ killing the competitiveness of ranked queue is the fact that so few good players are still queuing ranked, specifically because of dumb kitten like forcing them to play by themselves in an online game, that the matchmaker has to grab players from gold and silver to fill out teams for the highest-rated players on the leaderboard > > > > > > > > The results of the vote, yet again, doesn't count as premises or evidence in your eyes? > > > > > > > > The obvious fact that two people can carry game easier than one person requires proof to you? > > > > > > > > Nah, it's pretty clear which one of us is ignoring facts to promote an agenda. > > > > > > People voting no are by and large not affected by the proposed change. Not in the way they think anyway. > > > > > > They ARE affected by the fact that PvP is hemorrhaging players because of stupid restrictions like not being able to play together which ironically is what they are supporting. > > > > > > They AREN’T affected by the resulting duos in the top rating matches. The only reason they ever even see these players is because the MMR is scraping the bottom of the barrel to pull together teams but again that’s because of the reason stated above. > > > > > > By all means you scrubcakes can vote no to people playing with their friends (as if there isn’t STILL rampant match manipulation happening at the top of the leaderboard with the solo restriction in place) and eventually you can have ‘competitive’ balanced matches between equally terrible players because all the good players left to play a better PvP game. > > > >  > > > > Jesus, what is this nonsense, "scrubcakes'? lol what a hell man..."[...] you can have ‘competitive’ balanced matches between equally terrible players because all the good players left to play a better PvP game." Why keep kitten about it, just quit the game man, nobody cares...is been said allready many, many times, if all what you want is play with friends, hey i got you man, i have the solution, its called Unranked...whats wrong with you people... As has been stated many times already, unranked is not a challenge. It’s where people get their feet wet or try new builds. I’m not interested in steam rolling newbs all day with a friend, I want competitive games against skilled opponents with a friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felipe.1807 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 > @"Sanity Obscure.6054" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > 3. Created a lot of toxicity. > > > lol right? Some players just dont get it man...who were the ones that abused placement matches and infested leaderboards with new accounts with 10/0 matches? Silver players? Bronze? Gold? Nah, "top" players...who were the players that abused how MMr worked with teams, teaming up Legend players with new accounts to lower the Team MMr and get easier matches? "Top" players again! Who were the players that mocked and made Guild Leaderboards a complete joke by having the same guild with the same players but just with diferent names? "Top" players! Seeing a pattern here...Who were the players that even after being resposible for the removal of being able to queue with a team abused the ability to duo queue to manipulate matches? Yeah you know the answer for the question...sorry, kind of hard to have any simpathy for these players, everything that happened to this game mode happened because cheater boys just cant stop cheating...all players at high division are like this? No...but the few that are cause way to much harm to the game...still not sure why these players didnt get ban for life from this game, they may have twitch or Youtube, but only GW2 players watch them anyway, nobody is gonna stop watching and playing Overwatch, LoL or Fortnite cause they saw the cheater stream on Twitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaerin.8635 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 > @"Legatus.3608" said: > > @"Solaerin.8635" said: > > > @"Legatus.3608" said: > > > > @"Solaerin.8635" said: > > > > > @"BadMed.3846" said: > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > But by all means, keep voting no so that the good players keep GW2 uninstalled so you get matched up against whatever remaining pros still play more and more frequently. > > > > > We're at a point where we have a large pool of beginners and average players who want a fair gameplay experience. The above average pool is small and trying to be selfish with their demands. Duo queue only allows such players to abuse the game mode. We don't need it. Those who uninstalled may go wherever they like. We don't really care. > > > > > > > > > > Also, all players are entitled to vote. Any sort of vote for elite players only would be discriminating in nature to begin with. All players must have a say in this. > > > > 'Beginner' and 'average players' would be less likely to be put in 'unfair' games matched against plat 2/3 players if we allowed duo queue because more plat 2/3 players would actually want to play the game. Like, I don't understand how this is hard to understand > > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said: > > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > > > > > > @"Revilrad.1962" said: > > > > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Revilrad.1962" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Solaerin.8635" said: > > > > > > > > > > Anet should just let people play with their friends in PvP imho > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The previous poster brings up a very solid point that I hope doesn't get overlooked: really good players being forced into unranked when they want to play with their friends isn't good for anyone, least of all the new players that are just trying to get their bearings and end up getting steamrolled > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol I love it how the yes sayers reduce it to "let me play with my friends". You do not want to play with your friends. That sounds waaay to harmless. What you want is to steamroll silver/gold soloqueuers with your platinum friend. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only, most of us don't need a platinum friend to steamroll silvers and golds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then there is no problem? If you can steamroll "noobs" alone why are you complaining about the need of having a buddy with you? If you can steamroll noobs then it doesnt matter if your team has noobs too. > > > > > > > > > > > > You can't possibly be this thick headed. I don't care about rofl-stomping some random kitten. I literally just want to be able to play with friends. Unranked is not enough, as the games are incredibly unbalanced. > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you understand? I don't care about my rating, I don't care about winning or losing. I care about playing with friends and enjoying myself in an online game. > > > > > > > > > > I don't believe you're asking for duo because you want to create lopsided games, I do believe you genuinely just want to play with your friends, as a lot of other people do also. However, your arguments have a lot of really obvious holes that lead me to believe you haven't actually thought this out. You seem to want balanced games but you also want to play with your friends, and that's the problem. > > > > > > > > > > The bottom line here is you have two choices: > > > > > 1. Play with your friends > > > > > 2. Play balanced games > > > > > > > > > > The two concepts are against each other, you cannot vote for both. The matchmaker is already strained as it is, duo is only making it worse. It is currently already a lot worse under 1600. In fact, if anet were to release numbers I suspect it would be much, much worse than you think - in terms of average score difference in games containing a duo vs games not containing a duo. You can already visibly observe this by dropping low enough to consistently get games under the 1600 level. > > > > It's wild that you've repeated this same absurd argument that duo queue and balanced games are mutually exclusive without any evidence for the umpteenth time and it still isn't true > > > > > > It's wild that you're arguing against something that's logically obvious without any evidence for the umpteenth time that it "isn't true" when it very clearly is. Well made point I guess? > > > > > > Why do you need evidence to understand that there are inherent advantages to being in a duo relative to queuing solo? You really aren't able to figure that out? Do I need to list them for you? > > > > > > Pretty clear denial of the obvious just to get what you want. > > Do you think this is actually an effective argument tactic, to never actually present any premises or evidence of any kind and just assert that your conclusion is so "logically obvious" that you'd have to be in denial to not agree with it? Maybe you can try and list out all of the 'inherent advantages' of duo queue that would preclude the possibility of games being balanced or competitive, it'd be the first substantive thing you'd have posted in this entire thread. > > > > Meanwhile, the thing that is _actually_ killing the competitiveness of ranked queue is the fact that so few good players are still queuing ranked, specifically because of dumb kitten like forcing them to play by themselves in an online game, that the matchmaker has to grab players from gold and silver to fill out teams for the highest-rated players on the leaderboard > > The results of the vote, yet again, doesn't count as premises or evidence in your eyes? No? A bunch of silver and gold players who don't understand how the game works and voting on stuff that doesn't affect them isn't evidence that duo queue is bad, lol > The obvious fact that two people can carry game easier than one person requires proof to you? So you're not going to list out all of the ways that duo queue prevents games from being competitive, or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phokus.8934 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > They need to implement a way to track people's rating on the forums. > > I don't care if its hidden or not but people below the 1600 threshold should NOT be allowed to vote. This topic doesn't concern them. It does when the pvp population is low when plat players are getting queued against/with gold tier players. That in itself is good enough reason for anyone to vote in any poll regarding pvp. I don't think there's any good solution but we saw what team queuing did and it was a complete pub stomp. I guess if they tighten the MMR variance to not exceed a +- value then maybe bring back duo queue but now we're back to having high queue times. At the end of the day, the number of pvp players is really the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 > @"phokus.8934" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > They need to implement a way to track people's rating on the forums. > > > > I don't care if its hidden or not but people below the 1600 threshold should NOT be allowed to vote. This topic doesn't concern them. > > It does when the pvp population is low when plat players are getting queued against/with gold tier players. That in itself is good enough reason for anyone to vote in any poll regarding pvp. > > I don't think there's any good solution but we saw what team queuing did and it was a complete pub stomp. I guess if they tighten the MMR variance to not exceed a +- value then maybe bring back duo queue but now we're back to having high queue times. > > At the end of the day, the number of pvp players is really the issue. I hope you realize that those voting against duo que are actually making it worse for themselves. People below plat are getting matched up more and more frequently against platinum players because the top players are quitting/have already quit the game. Why? Because they hate solo que only. The longer solo que only remains in the game, the bigger the problem is going to get. If duo que returned and the 1600+ population rebounded, players gold and below won't have to worry about facing plat players because there will be more than enough plat players for the matchmaker to choose from. Do you understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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