The experiment has failed. Bring back DuoQ.

[phokus.8934]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"phokus.8934" said:

> > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > They need to implement a way to track people's rating on the forums.

> > >

> > > I don't care if its hidden or not but people below the 1600 threshold should NOT be allowed to vote. This topic doesn't concern them.

> >

> > It does when the pvp population is low when plat players are getting queued against/with gold tier players. That in itself is good enough reason for anyone to vote in any poll regarding pvp.

> >

> > I don't think there's any good solution but we saw what team queuing did and it was a complete pub stomp. I guess if they tighten the MMR variance to not exceed a +- value then maybe bring back duo queue but now we're back to having high queue times.

> >

> > At the end of the day, the number of pvp players is really the issue.

>

> I hope you realize that those voting against duo que are actually making it worse for themselves.

>

> People below plat are getting matched up more and more frequently against platinum players because the top players are quitting/have already quit the game. Why? Because they hate solo que only.

>

> The longer solo que only remains in the game, the bigger the problem is going to get. If duo que returned and the 1600+ population rebounded, players gold and below won't have to worry about facing plat players because there will be more than enough plat players for the matchmaker to choose from.

>

> Do you understand?

 

Do you understand that there are more pressing issues with pvp other than not having duo queue? You and everyone else who think that not having duo queue for plat+ is making people quit pvp is purely anecdotal. It's a really weak argument and honestly has no merit of being remotely true.

 

Like I said, there are bigger issues with pvp other than not being able to queue in plat+. You need to look at this holistically rather than having tunnel vision on one aspect of this game mode. If you actually thought about this unbiasedly, you'd realize that the pvp population was hemorrhaging players when we had 5 player team queue's.

 

Again, like I said, fixing pvp isn't one particular issue that you and others keep bringing up. When you look at all of the problems with pvp and actually think about why it's in the situation it's in today you'll realize that duo queue for plat+ is not high priority.

 

So again, take off your blinders that not having duo queue is the sole reason for the small pvp population and that it somehow will fix it if made available for plat+.

[Legatus.3608]

> @"Sinful.2165" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > @"Solaerin.8635" said:

> > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > > @"Solaerin.8635" said:

> > > > > > @"BadMed.3846" said:

> > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > > > > But by all means, keep voting no so that the good players keep GW2 uninstalled so you get matched up against whatever remaining pros still play more and more frequently.

> > > > > > We're at a point where we have a large pool of beginners and average players who want a fair gameplay experience. The above average pool is small and trying to be selfish with their demands. Duo queue only allows such players to abuse the game mode. We don't need it. Those who uninstalled may go wherever they like. We don't really care.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Also, all players are entitled to vote. Any sort of vote for elite players only would be discriminating in nature to begin with. All players must have a say in this.

> > > > > 'Beginner' and 'average players' would be less likely to be put in 'unfair' games matched against plat 2/3 players if we allowed duo queue because more plat 2/3 players would actually want to play the game. Like, I don't understand how this is hard to understand

> > > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Revilrad.1962" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Revilrad.1962" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Solaerin.8635" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > Anet should just let people play with their friends in PvP imho

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > The previous poster brings up a very solid point that I hope doesn't get overlooked: really good players being forced into unranked when they want to play with their friends isn't good for anyone, least of all the new players that are just trying to get their bearings and end up getting steamrolled

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Lol I love it how the yes sayers reduce it to "let me play with my friends". You do not want to play with your friends. That sounds waaay to harmless. What you want is to steamroll silver/gold soloqueuers with your platinum friend.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Only, most of us don't need a platinum friend to steamroll silvers and golds.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Then there is no problem? If you can steamroll "noobs" alone why are you complaining about the need of having a buddy with you? If you can steamroll noobs then it doesnt matter if your team has noobs too.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You can't possibly be this thick headed. I don't care about rofl-stomping some random kitten. I literally just want to be able to play with friends. Unranked is not enough, as the games are incredibly unbalanced.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Do you understand? I don't care about my rating, I don't care about winning or losing. I care about playing with friends and enjoying myself in an online game.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I don't believe you're asking for duo because you want to create lopsided games, I do believe you genuinely just want to play with your friends, as a lot of other people do also. However, your arguments have a lot of really obvious holes that lead me to believe you haven't actually thought this out. You seem to want balanced games but you also want to play with your friends, and that's the problem.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The bottom line here is you have two choices:

> > > > > > 1. Play with your friends

> > > > > > 2. Play balanced games

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The two concepts are against each other, you cannot vote for both. The matchmaker is already strained as it is, duo is only making it worse. It is currently already a lot worse under 1600. In fact, if anet were to release numbers I suspect it would be much, much worse than you think - in terms of average score difference in games containing a duo vs games not containing a duo. You can already visibly observe this by dropping low enough to consistently get games under the 1600 level.

> > > > > It's wild that you've repeated this same absurd argument that duo queue and balanced games are mutually exclusive without any evidence for the umpteenth time and it still isn't true

> > > >

> > > > It's wild that you're arguing against something that's logically obvious without any evidence for the umpteenth time that it "isn't true" when it very clearly is. Well made point I guess?

> > > >

> > > > Why do you need evidence to understand that there are inherent advantages to being in a duo relative to queuing solo? You really aren't able to figure that out? Do I need to list them for you?

> > > >

> > > > Pretty clear denial of the obvious just to get what you want.

> > > Do you think this is actually an effective argument tactic, to never actually present any premises or evidence of any kind and just assert that your conclusion is so "logically obvious" that you'd have to be in denial to not agree with it? Maybe you can try and list out all of the 'inherent advantages' of duo queue that would preclude the possibility of games being balanced or competitive, it'd be the first substantive thing you'd have posted in this entire thread.

> > >

> > > Meanwhile, the thing that is _actually_ killing the competitiveness of ranked queue is the fact that so few good players are still queuing ranked, specifically because of dumb kitten like forcing them to play by themselves in an online game, that the matchmaker has to grab players from gold and silver to fill out teams for the highest-rated players on the leaderboard

> >

> > The results of the vote, yet again, doesn't count as premises or evidence in your eyes?

> >

> > The obvious fact that two people can carry game easier than one person requires proof to you?

> >

> > Nah, it's pretty clear which one of us is ignoring facts to promote an agenda.

>

> People voting no are by and large not affected by the proposed change. Not in the way they think anyway.

>

> They ARE affected by the fact that PvP is hemorrhaging players because of stupid restrictions like not being able to play together which ironically is what they are supporting.

>

> They AREN’T affected by the resulting duos in the top rating matches. The only reason they ever even see these players is because the MMR is scraping the bottom of the barrel to pull together teams but again that’s because of the reason stated above.

>

> By all means you scrubcakes can vote no to people playing with their friends (as if there isn’t STILL rampant match manipulation happening at the top of the leaderboard with the solo restriction in place) and eventually you can have ‘competitive’ balanced matches between equally terrible players because all the good players left to play a better PvP game.

 

Because the game can't hemorrhage solo players once duo kills the mode?

 

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and neither do your buddies.

 

Any particular reason why you and your buddies can't just play in AT, or wvw? You know, the place where stacking matters more than skill, which is exactly what you're asking for.

 

Solo players have one place they can play and even then they still have to put up with your damn win trading, you have three modes to play in. Deal with it.

[Sinful.2165]

> @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > @"Sinful.2165" said:

> > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > @"Solaerin.8635" said:

> > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > > > @"Solaerin.8635" said:

> > > > > > > @"BadMed.3846" said:

> > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > > > > > But by all means, keep voting no so that the good players keep GW2 uninstalled so you get matched up against whatever remaining pros still play more and more frequently.

> > > > > > > We're at a point where we have a large pool of beginners and average players who want a fair gameplay experience. The above average pool is small and trying to be selfish with their demands. Duo queue only allows such players to abuse the game mode. We don't need it. Those who uninstalled may go wherever they like. We don't really care.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Also, all players are entitled to vote. Any sort of vote for elite players only would be discriminating in nature to begin with. All players must have a say in this.

> > > > > > 'Beginner' and 'average players' would be less likely to be put in 'unfair' games matched against plat 2/3 players if we allowed duo queue because more plat 2/3 players would actually want to play the game. Like, I don't understand how this is hard to understand

> > > > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Revilrad.1962" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Revilrad.1962" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Solaerin.8635" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > Anet should just let people play with their friends in PvP imho

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > The previous poster brings up a very solid point that I hope doesn't get overlooked: really good players being forced into unranked when they want to play with their friends isn't good for anyone, least of all the new players that are just trying to get their bearings and end up getting steamrolled

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Lol I love it how the yes sayers reduce it to "let me play with my friends". You do not want to play with your friends. That sounds waaay to harmless. What you want is to steamroll silver/gold soloqueuers with your platinum friend.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Only, most of us don't need a platinum friend to steamroll silvers and golds.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Then there is no problem? If you can steamroll "noobs" alone why are you complaining about the need of having a buddy with you? If you can steamroll noobs then it doesnt matter if your team has noobs too.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You can't possibly be this thick headed. I don't care about rofl-stomping some random kitten. I literally just want to be able to play with friends. Unranked is not enough, as the games are incredibly unbalanced.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Do you understand? I don't care about my rating, I don't care about winning or losing. I care about playing with friends and enjoying myself in an online game.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I don't believe you're asking for duo because you want to create lopsided games, I do believe you genuinely just want to play with your friends, as a lot of other people do also. However, your arguments have a lot of really obvious holes that lead me to believe you haven't actually thought this out. You seem to want balanced games but you also want to play with your friends, and that's the problem.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The bottom line here is you have two choices:

> > > > > > > 1. Play with your friends

> > > > > > > 2. Play balanced games

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The two concepts are against each other, you cannot vote for both. The matchmaker is already strained as it is, duo is only making it worse. It is currently already a lot worse under 1600. In fact, if anet were to release numbers I suspect it would be much, much worse than you think - in terms of average score difference in games containing a duo vs games not containing a duo. You can already visibly observe this by dropping low enough to consistently get games under the 1600 level.

> > > > > > It's wild that you've repeated this same absurd argument that duo queue and balanced games are mutually exclusive without any evidence for the umpteenth time and it still isn't true

> > > > >

> > > > > It's wild that you're arguing against something that's logically obvious without any evidence for the umpteenth time that it "isn't true" when it very clearly is. Well made point I guess?

> > > > >

> > > > > Why do you need evidence to understand that there are inherent advantages to being in a duo relative to queuing solo? You really aren't able to figure that out? Do I need to list them for you?

> > > > >

> > > > > Pretty clear denial of the obvious just to get what you want.

> > > > Do you think this is actually an effective argument tactic, to never actually present any premises or evidence of any kind and just assert that your conclusion is so "logically obvious" that you'd have to be in denial to not agree with it? Maybe you can try and list out all of the 'inherent advantages' of duo queue that would preclude the possibility of games being balanced or competitive, it'd be the first substantive thing you'd have posted in this entire thread.

> > > >

> > > > Meanwhile, the thing that is _actually_ killing the competitiveness of ranked queue is the fact that so few good players are still queuing ranked, specifically because of dumb kitten like forcing them to play by themselves in an online game, that the matchmaker has to grab players from gold and silver to fill out teams for the highest-rated players on the leaderboard

> > >

> > > The results of the vote, yet again, doesn't count as premises or evidence in your eyes?

> > >

> > > The obvious fact that two people can carry game easier than one person requires proof to you?

> > >

> > > Nah, it's pretty clear which one of us is ignoring facts to promote an agenda.

> >

> > People voting no are by and large not affected by the proposed change. Not in the way they think anyway.

> >

> > They ARE affected by the fact that PvP is hemorrhaging players because of stupid restrictions like not being able to play together which ironically is what they are supporting.

> >

> > They AREN’T affected by the resulting duos in the top rating matches. The only reason they ever even see these players is because the MMR is scraping the bottom of the barrel to pull together teams but again that’s because of the reason stated above.

> >

> > By all means you scrubcakes can vote no to people playing with their friends (as if there isn’t STILL rampant match manipulation happening at the top of the leaderboard with the solo restriction in place) and eventually you can have ‘competitive’ balanced matches between equally terrible players because all the good players left to play a better PvP game.

>

> Because the game can't hemorrhage solo players once duo kills the mode?

>

> You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and neither do your buddies.

>

> Any particular reason why you and your buddies can't just play in AT, or wvw? You know, the place where stacking matters more than skill, which is exactly what you're asking for.

>

> Solo players have one place they can play and even then they still have to put up with your kitten win trading, you have three modes to play in. Deal with it.

 

I do play ATs but they are hours between matches. WvW uses PvE scaling, not to mention the zergs of people running around. There’s nothing balanced about that shitty game mode.

 

Ideally they should have a 2v2 only leaderboard, but ideally Anet should be doing a lot of things differently.

 

 

[HeadCrowned.6834]

DuoQ is comming. Ez.

 

 

 

 

[Threat.7450]

Imagine you're a PvE player who enjoys the Raid game mode. You start off on Wing 1 with your favourite Raid build and begin your progression through the mode. And you are enjoying yourself.

Then, once you get to Wing 3, you are no longer permitted to join Raid instances with your team. Now you must queue into a matchmaker that selects random players from a pool of "similar" skill players - regardless of the class they play - and drops the 10 of you into the instance. Maybe you have a tank, maybe you have a healer, maybe you don't. The 10 random players must now try to figure out how to progress higher through their favourite game mode, without an in-game voice chat, without strategy, without any idea what their teammates are actually using for builds and skills. Fun, right? You would love the progression in this "team" mode and I'm sure everyone would want to spend countless hours playing it.

 

Does this seem logical? Would this poll ever be considered in PvE? Of course not. Even the idea of Duo restriction would cause a riot.

 

Team queue or nothing.

[Crab Fear.1624]

This will probably get removed, but haha no voters: YOU LOSE! LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

/slaps buttcheeks like a wild monkey and runs off cackling

[Faux Play.6104]

> @"HeadCrowned.6834" said:

> > @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> > Duo queue would only make the situation in ranked worse.

>

> Nice reasoning man. Another living example of the general line a no-voter follows.

>

> People who vote no should elaborate more on their choice. Why is it an unreasonable advantage to DuoQ? The matchmaking system is making average MMR per team near to equal right? So if 2 high rated players DuoQ, they generally get matched with 3 people in their team with lower MMR. Is the option to voice comm then that much of an advantage? I don't know man, most of you are just scared of nothing.

 

This is not true at the edges of rating. The system adds "padding" to your rating. So if two 1800 players duo the system will de-rate their average mmr until they get a match. If said duo queues off hours they will likely be playing against a team of gold/low play players and will have teammates with an equivalent rating.

[Lucentfir.7430]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> This will probably get removed, but haha no voters: YOU LOSE! LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>

> /slaps buttcheeks like a wild monkey and runs off cackling

 

Well with the way they did it, it's fine. No reason to exploit the leaderboard anymore unless you've got nothing better to do.

[BadMed.3846]

> @"Threat.7450" said:

> Imagine you're a PvE player who enjoys the Raid game mode. You start off on Wing 1 with your favourite Raid build and begin your progression through the mode. And you are enjoying yourself.

> Then, once you get to Wing 3, you are no longer permitted to join Raid instances with your team. Now you must queue into a matchmaker that selects random players from a pool of "similar" skill players - regardless of the class they play - and drops the 10 of you into the instance. Maybe you have a tank, maybe you have a healer, maybe you don't. The 10 random players must now try to figure out how to progress higher through their favourite game mode, without an in-game voice chat, without strategy, without any idea what their teammates are actually using for builds and skills. Fun, right? You would love the progression in this "team" mode and I'm sure everyone would want to spend countless hours playing it.

>

> Does this seem logical? Would this poll ever be considered in PvE? Of course not. Even the idea of Duo restriction would cause a riot.

>

> Team queue or nothing.

 

Decision has been made and it is what it is. However, you decide what you're really after first. Duo or team queue? Team queue vs another team queue is no issue. No one raised a concern around 5v5 premades on both sides. Your logic, while logical, does not logically apply to the situation.

 

None the less, let's see how duo queue goes.

[Malediktus.9250]

It is silly that Anet brings back duoQ despite clearly half the forum community does not want it back (and I guess the non forum users would be even higher percentage against it)

[Nova.3817]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> It is silly that Anet brings back duoQ despite clearly half the forum community does not want it back (and I guess the non forum users would be even higher percentage against it)

 

by that logic the other half does want it back.... me included

[Malediktus.9250]

> @"Nova.3817" said:

> > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > It is silly that Anet brings back duoQ despite clearly half the forum community does not want it back (and I guess the non forum users would be even higher percentage against it)

>

> by that logic the other half does want it back.... me included

 

But why change it if 50%+ like it the way it is

As someone who plays PvP primarily solo, I hate it when I have one or even two duoQ in my team.

[Patrick.2987]

people should only be able to enter queue with a party of 5. Would make playing with each other more valuable.

[Nova.3817]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > @"Nova.3817" said:

> > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > It is silly that Anet brings back duoQ despite clearly half the forum community does not want it back (and I guess the non forum users would be even higher percentage against it)

> >

> > by that logic the other half does want it back.... me included

>

> But why change it if 50%+ like it the way it is

> As someone who plays PvP primarily solo, I hate it when I have one or even two duoQ in my team.

 

BC it was changed originally by that margin of vote .

 

and while i feel for your desire i cannot be bothered to spvp alone (as do the 50% who agree with me)....and i envy you for finding joy in playing alone (and the 50% who agree with you)...

 

there should be 2 ques no doubt 1 solo 1 unrestricted

[breno.5423]

> @"HeadCrowned.6834" said:

> People deliberately lose matches to stay under the 1600 MMR hurdle so that they can at least have fun with a friend in a DuoQ.

 

Who the f*ck do this? lol

Must be real dumb.

[Ithilwen.1529]

I think duo queue is a very poor choice. **ANET can quote all the metrics that they like... the perception will be that if one loses to a duo it is because the duo had a definite edge, in other words... the losing player will feel they got ripped off.**

 

This will not improve the attendance or reputation of PvP.

[Meteor.3720]

> @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> I think duo queue is a very poor choice. **ANET can quote all the metrics that they like... the perception will be that if one loses to a duo it is because the duo had a definite edge, in other words... the losing player will feel they got ripped off.**

>

> This will not improve the attendance or reputation of PvP.

 

You get duos in Silver/ Gold anyway, so this doesn't really affect you.

[Ithilwen.1529]

> @"Meteor.3720" said:

> > @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> > I think duo queue is a very poor choice. **ANET can quote all the metrics that they like... the perception will be that if one loses to a duo it is because the duo had a definite edge, in other words... the losing player will feel they got ripped off.**

> >

> > This will not improve the attendance or reputation of PvP.

>

> You get duos in Silver/ Gold anyway, so this doesn't really affect you.

 

Actually, it does. With the present population I often see much higher ranked players in my games.

[Nova.3817]

> @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> > @"Meteor.3720" said:

> > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> > > I think duo queue is a very poor choice. **ANET can quote all the metrics that they like... the perception will be that if one loses to a duo it is because the duo had a definite edge, in other words... the losing player will feel they got ripped off.**

> > >

> > > This will not improve the attendance or reputation of PvP.

> >

> > You get duos in Silver/ Gold anyway, so this doesn't really affect you.

>

> Actually, it does. With the present population I often see much higher ranked players in my games.

 

wanna kill that edge make a friend.... that a poor excuse people will now bring friends to spvp to give them the most "edge" this is also why premade needs to to return aswell if you cant be bothered to make friends.... then you decided on that..... but duo is about having fun with friend (and hopefully friends real soon) bc population is a real issue and no one wants to play a MMO alone...

[Uncle Dalty.8327]

> @"breno.5423" said:

> > @"HeadCrowned.6834" said:

> > People deliberately lose matches to stay under the 1600 MMR hurdle so that they can at least have fun with a friend in a DuoQ.

>

> Who the f*ck do this? lol

> Must be real dumb.

 

People who have already been top 25 multiple seasons and don't give a kitten about face rolling the try-hards anymore.... much better to play with a friend even if the friend is terrible.

[Highlie.7641]

Alright! now we can go from having 1 out of 25 games not being a blow out to 1 out of 250!

 

It's rather amusing you guy's think there are enough skilled players left for the matchmaker to function properly and create balanced team matches. when they can't even do it with solo matches. prepare for even more blow out matches.

 

 

 

 

[sarkysek.1085]

I voted no. I'd like to play fair and entertaining matches. Not against Sind and Misha duo where the match is lost before you even leave the base.

[Vieux P.1238]

This thread has failed. ... AGAIN! Don'T Bring back DuoQ question again.

[Coolguy.8702]

> @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> This thread has failed. ... AGAIN! Don'T Bring back DuoQ question again.

 

Too late, they already brought it back

[HeadCrowned.6834]

> @"sarkysek.1085" said:

> I voted no. I'd like to play fair and entertaining matches. Not against Sind and Misha duo where the match is lost before you even leave the base.

 

Fair matches are already seldom in soloQ. It wont make much of a difference if DuoQ is being implemented in that regard. Entertaining matches? Playing with a friend is much more entertaining in the current state of pvp than playing alone.