WvW Arrow Cart Nerfing

[Israel.7056]

The nerfs don't go far enough acs are still brain dead easy to use. I like bloodies idea of an ammo system and reloads could cost supply so you can sit on your acs but you're gonna drain supply pretty fast if you do. There should be costs to using such a powerful tool.

 

Also can we please not descend into "what about 5v50" madness again?

[HazyDaisy.4107]

I won't complain. The 50 will still come like they always do, only from now on, I won't be one of the five trying to defend against that. Thanks for freeing up my time so I can join my own 50 man fight blob.

[oOStaticOo.9467]

The way Anet keeps screwing up WvW, I'm surprised anybody plays it anymore. They just keep swinging away all willy-nilly with that Nerfbat. I can't hardly stand being in WvW for longer than an hour now. I may actually go back to my Story and finish it up. GG Anet.

[ArchonWing.9480]

Lol @ people extolling the virtues of Arrow Cart mounting. How can anyone defend 3 hour long staring contests as something worthy to be defined as actual gameplay, much less as "skilled" gameplay?

 

Good riddance. And I defended quite a bit myself against the mob; could chain those disablers indefinitely though with PoF's vortex's it's not as viable as it once was. But that at least that takes a small amount of skill as many people can't do that.

[Aridon.8362]

Wow you actually have to fight back to keep your keep wow. Feelsbadman rip dream.

[viquing.8254]

>acs are still brain dead easy to use.

Like every other siege weapon and every pegi 4 fighting builds.

 

>Also can we please not descend into "what about 5v50" madness again?

We can't because even if the servers have the same population, in map it will never be perfect equal number fights. (And hopefully there is some rotations.)

 

>How can anyone defend 3 hour long staring contests as something worthy to be defined as actual gameplay, much less as "skilled" gameplay?

It isn't more about skill than about to invest time and motivation in this game mode (but yeah playing h24 scout is boring for me.). That said, average defenders who know how to use weapon/trap at the right moment and give information in map are way more skilled than the average metabatle copy/paste blob spam 1 leechers who only touch a third of WvW.

 

>could chain those disablers indefinitely though with PoF's vortex's it's not as viable as it once was. But that at least that takes a small amount of skill as many people can't do that.

The ease of setting a trap is more profession dependant than skill dependant.

 

>Wow you actually have to fight back to keep your keep wow. Feelsbadman rip dream.

wow, you actually (if it's not now, it will be next def nerf) end to fight empty keep with no resistance. Enjoy your Player v Door dream.

 

Btw most of the fights should be around supply camp.

[joneirikb.7506]

The more changes happens to AC, and almost every single change people demand for the AC, I just see the AC gets watered down to no longer having a role, it doesn't serve a purpose.

 

I always saw the AC to be a weapon to fight against larger numbers, a sort of equalizer. But in effect, it has like all other things in WvW, been best to use from an outnumbering situation to destroy a smaller group faster.

 

It has some traces of a support siege (poison, cripple, reveal) but never gets used for that, and it's largely too little in todays meta, with the amount of condi clear or resistance (as a direct result of the rampant condi meta we've had).

 

I think they should redesign the entire AC (and probably the rest of the Siege as well), by picking 1 role/purpose for each siege, and design them around that purpose.

 

The AC could go either way:

 

* Outnumbered Equalizer: 1 skill only, does reduced base damage (example: -25%), but gains +2% damage per target hit (Back to 50 target limit, for a total of +100%). In short: Useless against 5-10 man, strong against 30+ groups. Absolutely no point for a zerg to use against 5 defenders. Also do 0 damage to siege. That is not its role.

* Group Support: Basically remove the damage, and make all the skills give some kind of support, have the basic attack constantly pulse out cripple so you can slow down people, have the other skills add poison (to stop heals), reveal, a daze that also affects siege, and possibly even a boon strip. It's main purpose is to support and assist your own group fighting against the enemy. Doing 0 damage by itself it isn't going to kill anything.

 

This would require that other siege gets changed in order to take the slack, one specific role that would be missed is a way to clear the outside of the walls for siege. Kind of imagine that a few mortars placed inside the walls could be useful to carpet bomb the outside of the wall for proxy catas etc. (And in general static siege placement.... they really should place them further in, and preferably make a few small platforms for them so they're out of most fire.)

[Rampage.7145]

Arrow carts are completely inecesary defenders usually have a lot of chokes and insane terrain advantage while insde a keep to defend it with not to mantion tactivators, gliding and whatnot, the fight should be done Players vs Players not siege vs players, if you do not have the men to defend your keep you should just lose it straight up no need to waste time and delay the inevitably. Poeple who play this game need to realize how boring fighting siege is, i am down for extended fights inside the lords room where people just come back to it over and over (maybe make emergency waypoint cooldown only 2 mins so people can use it more to keep the fight alive) and fight to the end, but fighitng players inside while u are outside and cannot reach them its fucking stupid and should have never been the way to go on a action based MMORPG.

 

[hunkamania.7561]

This nerf isn't enough. Hope there are more nerfs to defenders in the future since it's killing this game. No1 wants to spend their raid hitting doors and walls for hours. SMC also needs to be nerfed.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"joneirikb.7506" said:

 

> The AC could go either way:

>

> * Outnumbered Equalizer: 1 skill only, does reduced base damage (example: -25%), but gains +2% damage per target hit (Back to 50 target limit, for a total of +100%). In short: Useless against 5-10 man, strong against 30+ groups. Absolutely no point for a zerg to use against 5 defenders. Also do 0 damage to siege. That is not its role.

 

I thought of something like this, not in numbers or 1 skill only, but the scaling, it makes total sense.

The current AC benefits zergs and unfavors outnumbered defenders.

[oOStaticOo.9467]

Tell you what. If you guys want to nerf ACs all to hell and back then we need to make WPs uncontestable and Double the HP and Toughness on Lords. This whole "If you don't have enough players then you deserve to lose it." mentality is crap. There are a lot of servers that do not have the capability to defend against other servers due to guilds stacking to overload servers. Futhermore, not all classes and builds are capable of fending off large zergs. Basically what some people want is Meta blobs running around fighting each other back and forth. Like someone else mentioned earlier, why even have structures to capture and defend if that is the case? Just make a big open field where everybody just runs at each other and starts flailing away. May the best person win.

[Doo Lally.8594]

> @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> Tell you what. .............. May the best ~~person ~~ blob win.

 

Corrected that for you - yw. ;)

[Blockhead Magee.3092]

> @"hunkamania.7561" said:

> This nerf isn't enough. Hope there are more nerfs to defenders in the future since it's killing this game. No1 wants to spend their raid hitting doors and walls for hours. SMC also needs to be nerfed.

 

I fail to see how making it easier to break into structures is going to do anything other than keep you hitting doors and walls. The folks in there are not coming out to fight, do really think that if you get in faster you'll what? Take em by surprise? They'll just port to citadel sooner.

 

Nerfing AC fire is not going to create the outcome that you want.

[steki.1478]

> @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> Tell you what. If you guys want to nerf ACs all to hell and back then we need to make WPs uncontestable and Double the HP and Toughness on Lords. This whole "If you don't have enough players then you deserve to lose it." mentality is crap. There are a lot of servers that do not have the capability to defend against other servers due to guilds stacking to overload servers. Futhermore, not all classes and builds are capable of fending off large zergs. Basically what some people want is Meta blobs running around fighting each other back and forth. Like someone else mentioned earlier, why even have structures to capture and defend if that is the case? Just make a big open field where everybody just runs at each other and starts flailing away. May the best person win.

 

That's why you lose objectives, lose matchup, drop a tier or few below where there's players you can fight and no stacked guilds. If you can't keep objectives then you dont deserve them. Nobody stops you from playing any class.

 

If you just run into enemy blob hoping to win then it's another reason why you should be in a much worse matchup. There's no point of discussing further if you have no clue about core fighting mechanics.

[shiri.4257]

No outnumbered buffs can equalize vs a map queue. why? because you're outnumbered during that time cuz no commander wants to lead a bunch of backseat zergbusting thieves and soulbeasts commanders vs a meta blob.

[hunkamania.7561]

> @"Blockhead Magee.3092" said:

> > @"hunkamania.7561" said:

> > This nerf isn't enough. Hope there are more nerfs to defenders in the future since it's killing this game. No1 wants to spend their raid hitting doors and walls for hours. SMC also needs to be nerfed.

>

> I fail to see how making it easier to break into structures is going to do anything other than keep you hitting doors and walls. The folks in there are not coming out to fight, do really think that if you get in faster you'll what? Take em by surprise? They'll just port to citadel sooner.

>

> Nerfing AC fire is not going to create the outcome that you want.

 

What's the point of playing if you're just gonna sit in keeps and spawns all day? I just don't get it.... sounds super boring

 

> @"shiri.4257" said:

> No outnumbered buffs can equalize vs a map queue. why? because you're outnumbered during that time cuz no commander wants to lead a bunch of backseat zergbusting thieves and soulbeasts commanders vs a meta blob.

 

Ya, that is so true. Not even Napoleon the great could lead those guys to a victory in battle lol

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"hunkamania.7561" said:

> > @"Blockhead Magee.3092" said:

> > > @"hunkamania.7561" said:

> > > This nerf isn't enough. Hope there are more nerfs to defenders in the future since it's killing this game. No1 wants to spend their raid hitting doors and walls for hours. SMC also needs to be nerfed.

> >

> > I fail to see how making it easier to break into structures is going to do anything other than keep you hitting doors and walls. The folks in there are not coming out to fight, do really think that if you get in faster you'll what? Take em by surprise? They'll just port to citadel sooner.

> >

> > Nerfing AC fire is not going to create the outcome that you want.

>

> What's the point of playing if you're just gonna sit in keeps and spawns all day? I just don't get it.... sounds super boring

 

Agreed. It's boring as hell.

 

But the point stands: if they won't come out when they outnumber you, they won't come out when they don't.

[hunkamania.7561]

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > @"hunkamania.7561" said:

> > > @"Blockhead Magee.3092" said:

> > > > @"hunkamania.7561" said:

> > > > This nerf isn't enough. Hope there are more nerfs to defenders in the future since it's killing this game. No1 wants to spend their raid hitting doors and walls for hours. SMC also needs to be nerfed.

> > >

> > > I fail to see how making it easier to break into structures is going to do anything other than keep you hitting doors and walls. The folks in there are not coming out to fight, do really think that if you get in faster you'll what? Take em by surprise? They'll just port to citadel sooner.

> > >

> > > Nerfing AC fire is not going to create the outcome that you want.

> >

> > What's the point of playing if you're just gonna sit in keeps and spawns all day? I just don't get it.... sounds super boring

>

> Agreed. It's boring as hell.

>

> But the point stands: if they won't come out when they outnumber you, they won't come out when they don't.

 

Ya, that's a balance issue with the server system which has killed this game for years. hope alliances can fix that but I doubt it

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"hunkamania.7561" said:

> > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > @"hunkamania.7561" said:

> > > > @"Blockhead Magee.3092" said:

> > > > > @"hunkamania.7561" said:

> > > > > This nerf isn't enough. Hope there are more nerfs to defenders in the future since it's killing this game. No1 wants to spend their raid hitting doors and walls for hours. SMC also needs to be nerfed.

> > > >

> > > > I fail to see how making it easier to break into structures is going to do anything other than keep you hitting doors and walls. The folks in there are not coming out to fight, do really think that if you get in faster you'll what? Take em by surprise? They'll just port to citadel sooner.

> > > >

> > > > Nerfing AC fire is not going to create the outcome that you want.

> > >

> > > What's the point of playing if you're just gonna sit in keeps and spawns all day? I just don't get it.... sounds super boring

> >

> > Agreed. It's boring as hell.

> >

> > But the point stands: if they won't come out when they outnumber you, they won't come out when they don't.

>

> Ya, that's a balance issue with the server system which has killed this game for years. hope alliances can fix that but I doubt it

 

If the alliances build themselves with fights focused AND PPT focused groups it can.

 

But relying on players to fix it?

 

Heh...,

[joneirikb.7506]

> @"hunkamania.7561" said:

> > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > @"hunkamania.7561" said:

> > > > @"Blockhead Magee.3092" said:

> > > > > @"hunkamania.7561" said:

> > > > > This nerf isn't enough. Hope there are more nerfs to defenders in the future since it's killing this game. No1 wants to spend their raid hitting doors and walls for hours. SMC also needs to be nerfed.

> > > >

> > > > I fail to see how making it easier to break into structures is going to do anything other than keep you hitting doors and walls. The folks in there are not coming out to fight, do really think that if you get in faster you'll what? Take em by surprise? They'll just port to citadel sooner.

> > > >

> > > > Nerfing AC fire is not going to create the outcome that you want.

> > >

> > > What's the point of playing if you're just gonna sit in keeps and spawns all day? I just don't get it.... sounds super boring

> >

> > Agreed. It's boring as hell.

> >

> > But the point stands: if they won't come out when they outnumber you, they won't come out when they don't.

>

> Ya, that's a balance issue with the server system which has killed this game for years. hope alliances can fix that but I doubt it

 

That has nothing to do with balance or servers, it's completely on human nature. If players doesn't want to fight you, there is practically nothing the game can do to make them come out and fight you. If they removed all walls and siege, they'd just run away, ALT+F4, leave WvW, or more likely just not bother to go into WvW in the first place.

 

WvW is a Sandbox mode with PvP in it. It is supposed to be an ecosystem of different playstyles complimenting each others. In reality, no game-design/plan survives first contact with players.

[Rampage.7145]

Defense can be perfectly done with players and commanders without a single piece of siege, the structures themselves favor defenders so much just make it so people can brawl to the end inside WP every 2 mins lord harder to kill stuff like that it is the way to go whit the game, u dont have commanders u dont have any organized force well u deserve to lose your keep, sorry to say but probably don't belong to that tier so it is probably for the greater good that u lost it, that way get matched with a less blobby server. YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO ARTIFICIALLY BUMP UP YOUR SCORE BY SIEGING AND KILLING THE ENEMY SERVERS OUT BOREDOM! that is stupid game design and the reason why nobody wants to play WvW anymore.

[Rysdude.3824]

The sad thing is, even with the nerfs to siege, so called "fight" servers are still using spies to prematurely use EWPs followed by a full map blob. And then they have the nerve to say they're here looking for fights when they disabled one of the key ways to get them. So which one is it? You want actual hard/even fights? Or you want to just map blob and ktrain? Yes, looking at you Whiteside Ridge.

[cobbah.3102]

All this call for nerfing AC I am sure everyone has noticed when SMC is held by the dominant server it is always loaded with AC and siege , waiting for fights?? ok if you want fights put no seige then you can defend with your superior forces , instead of talking the talk try walking the walk PUT up or shut up about siege time you lads grew a set. Make SMC a seige free zone remove cannons and mortars ,NO siege can be placed even on 3rd floor.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

> @"Rampage.7145" said:

> Defense can be perfectly done with players and commanders without a single piece of siege, the structures themselves favor defenders so much just make it so people can brawl to the end inside WP every 2 mins lord harder to kill stuff like that it is the way to go whit the game, u dont have commanders u dont have any organized force well u deserve to lose your keep, sorry to say but probably don't belong to that tier so it is probably for the greater good that u lost it, that way get matched with a less blobby server. YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO ARTIFICIALLY BUMP UP YOUR SCORE BY SIEGING AND KILLING THE ENEMY SERVERS OUT BOREDOM! that is stupid game design and the reason why nobody wants to play WvW anymore.

 

This is actually a good point.

 

Servers that persist on hiding behind siege boring the other team to death to the point groups won't even bother attacking the T3's end up bumping themselves up in Tiers making for match-ups that are even more mismatched.

 

Don't like that mega-blob in NA so you hide in your structure under siege? Well lets just PPT ourselves over that so we end up in the next tier where we can face 2-3 mega-blobs in NA... good thinking..

 

Then players complain... and you wonder why you are matched up with servers far larger than you..

[Shagaliscious.6281]

> @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> Tell you what. If you guys want to nerf ACs all to hell and back then we need to make WPs uncontestable and Double the HP and Toughness on Lords. This whole "If you don't have enough players then you deserve to lose it." mentality is crap. There are a lot of servers that do not have the capability to defend against other servers due to guilds stacking to overload servers. Futhermore, not all classes and builds are capable of fending off large zergs. Basically what some people want is Meta blobs running around fighting each other back and forth. Like someone else mentioned earlier, why even have structures to capture and defend if that is the case? Just make a big open field where everybody just runs at each other and starts flailing away. May the best person win.

 

Not sure about everyone else, I always have gear for a zerg build, and a roaming build. Lots of times I will swap out gear and traits while running to the structure to defend it, depending on the situation. And every server should have the capability to queue a given map during prime time, maybe now your smaller guilds will have to actually work together since you actually need ever numbers to defend now. And if your server can't do that, maybe it's time to start recruiting.