Lyssa's role and the gods' abandomnent

[Eekasqueak.7850]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said:

> > > I'll be giving up all hope on ArenaNet's story telling ability when it comes to writing Gods if they make Lyssa a villain after all these hints.

> >

> > I have doubts that the gods were ever good in the first place, they dumped humans on Tyria only to abandon them when the dragons show up, they're at the very least callous and don't even get me started on Kormir... Maybe I've just played too much pillars of eternity but I think Humanity and Tyria as a whole would be better off forgetting the gods.

>

> Except [they didn't outright abandon humans](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Garden_of_the_Gods). They're looking for a new home for humanity, a safer home. And it sounds like that was the situation that drove the Six to bring humanity to Tyria in the first place too.

 

That's a religious text written by a human priest, not a reliable source IMO.

[Loesh.4697]

> @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > > > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said:

> > > > I'll be giving up all hope on ArenaNet's story telling ability when it comes to writing Gods if they make Lyssa a villain after all these hints.

> > >

> > > I have doubts that the gods were ever good in the first place, they dumped humans on Tyria only to abandon them when the dragons show up, they're at the very least callous and don't even get me started on Kormir... Maybe I've just played too much pillars of eternity but I think Humanity and Tyria as a whole would be better off forgetting the gods.

> >

> > Except [they didn't outright abandon humans](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Garden_of_the_Gods). They're looking for a new home for humanity, a safer home. And it sounds like that was the situation that drove the Six to bring humanity to Tyria in the first place too.

>

> That's a religious text written by a human priest, not a reliable source IMO.

 

I mean it's more reliable then what any of the other races have to say about the workings of the universe at this point.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

> @"Loesh.4697" said:

> > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > > > > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said:

> > > > > I'll be giving up all hope on ArenaNet's story telling ability when it comes to writing Gods if they make Lyssa a villain after all these hints.

> > > >

> > > > I have doubts that the gods were ever good in the first place, they dumped humans on Tyria only to abandon them when the dragons show up, they're at the very least callous and don't even get me started on Kormir... Maybe I've just played too much pillars of eternity but I think Humanity and Tyria as a whole would be better off forgetting the gods.

> > >

> > > Except [they didn't outright abandon humans](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Garden_of_the_Gods). They're looking for a new home for humanity, a safer home. And it sounds like that was the situation that drove the Six to bring humanity to Tyria in the first place too.

> >

> > That's a religious text written by a human priest, not a reliable source IMO.

>

> I mean it's more reliable then what any of the other races have to say about the workings of the universe at this point.

 

Omadd's machine says otherwise. You've shown a clear bias in your views of the non human races, Asura have the best view on how the workings of the universe work which is confirmed by the machine.

[Loesh.4697]

> @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > @"Loesh.4697" said:

> > > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > > > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > > > > > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said:

> > > > > > I'll be giving up all hope on ArenaNet's story telling ability when it comes to writing Gods if they make Lyssa a villain after all these hints.

> > > > >

> > > > > I have doubts that the gods were ever good in the first place, they dumped humans on Tyria only to abandon them when the dragons show up, they're at the very least callous and don't even get me started on Kormir... Maybe I've just played too much pillars of eternity but I think Humanity and Tyria as a whole would be better off forgetting the gods.

> > > >

> > > > Except [they didn't outright abandon humans](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Garden_of_the_Gods). They're looking for a new home for humanity, a safer home. And it sounds like that was the situation that drove the Six to bring humanity to Tyria in the first place too.

> > >

> > > That's a religious text written by a human priest, not a reliable source IMO.

> >

> > I mean it's more reliable then what any of the other races have to say about the workings of the universe at this point.

>

> Omadd's machine says otherwise.

 

Didn't that drive someone insane and literally blow up a city, while unleashing an Elder Dragon on the planet.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

> @"Loesh.4697" said:

> > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > > @"Loesh.4697" said:

> > > > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > > > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > > > > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > > > > > > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said:

> > > > > > > I'll be giving up all hope on ArenaNet's story telling ability when it comes to writing Gods if they make Lyssa a villain after all these hints.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have doubts that the gods were ever good in the first place, they dumped humans on Tyria only to abandon them when the dragons show up, they're at the very least callous and don't even get me started on Kormir... Maybe I've just played too much pillars of eternity but I think Humanity and Tyria as a whole would be better off forgetting the gods.

> > > > >

> > > > > Except [they didn't outright abandon humans](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Garden_of_the_Gods). They're looking for a new home for humanity, a safer home. And it sounds like that was the situation that drove the Six to bring humanity to Tyria in the first place too.

> > > >

> > > > That's a religious text written by a human priest, not a reliable source IMO.

> > >

> > > I mean it's more reliable then what any of the other races have to say about the workings of the universe at this point.

> >

> > Omadd's machine says otherwise.

>

> Didn't that drive someone insane and literally blow up a city, while unleashing an Elder Dragon on the planet.

 

Read the rest, it also -didn't- drive the commander insane and confirmed that Asura have the most sound theory on the workings of the universe.

[Loesh.4697]

> @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > @"Loesh.4697" said:

> > > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > > > @"Loesh.4697" said:

> > > > > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > > > > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > > > > > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > > > > > > > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said:

> > > > > > > > I'll be giving up all hope on ArenaNet's story telling ability when it comes to writing Gods if they make Lyssa a villain after all these hints.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I have doubts that the gods were ever good in the first place, they dumped humans on Tyria only to abandon them when the dragons show up, they're at the very least callous and don't even get me started on Kormir... Maybe I've just played too much pillars of eternity but I think Humanity and Tyria as a whole would be better off forgetting the gods.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Except [they didn't outright abandon humans](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Garden_of_the_Gods). They're looking for a new home for humanity, a safer home. And it sounds like that was the situation that drove the Six to bring humanity to Tyria in the first place too.

> > > > >

> > > > > That's a religious text written by a human priest, not a reliable source IMO.

> > > >

> > > > I mean it's more reliable then what any of the other races have to say about the workings of the universe at this point.

> > >

> > > Omadd's machine says otherwise.

> >

> > Didn't that drive someone insane and literally blow up a city, while unleashing an Elder Dragon on the planet.

>

> Read the rest, it also -didn't- drive the commander insane and confirmed that Asura have the most sound theory on the workings of the universe.

 

I couldn't, because you just edited it in, though in short being biased isn't the same thing as being wrong. Further it;s worth noting that the Eternal Alchemy isn't a unique concept, the Dwarven All and the Apostles Antiktheyria have delved into those subject in detail. The Eternal Alchemy has the primary benefit of showing a rough structure as a mechanism with working parts, HOWEVER as Ogden pointed out, the Asura don't understand it.

 

In fact, they tend to make themselves progressively more ignorant by trying to see every single piece of it down to the smallest detail, they're all about seeing the forest from the trees. In doing so they detach themselves from the spiritual elements of what is, after all, a spiritual universe where they try to find the bits and moving parts of things they can't possibly understand. In doing so they tend to either go insane, or become power hungry, which is why they have created a society that is so individualistic and in many ways backwards that they elect their failures to positions of office and control of the government.

 

It has value, but it's limited, and the Asura can't get past their limitations because they built their entire society around trying to understand.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

> @"Loesh.4697" said:

> > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > > @"Loesh.4697" said:

> > > > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > > > > @"Loesh.4697" said:

> > > > > > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > > > > > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said:

> > > > > > > > > I'll be giving up all hope on ArenaNet's story telling ability when it comes to writing Gods if they make Lyssa a villain after all these hints.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I have doubts that the gods were ever good in the first place, they dumped humans on Tyria only to abandon them when the dragons show up, they're at the very least callous and don't even get me started on Kormir... Maybe I've just played too much pillars of eternity but I think Humanity and Tyria as a whole would be better off forgetting the gods.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Except [they didn't outright abandon humans](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Garden_of_the_Gods). They're looking for a new home for humanity, a safer home. And it sounds like that was the situation that drove the Six to bring humanity to Tyria in the first place too.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That's a religious text written by a human priest, not a reliable source IMO.

> > > > >

> > > > > I mean it's more reliable then what any of the other races have to say about the workings of the universe at this point.

> > > >

> > > > Omadd's machine says otherwise.

> > >

> > > Didn't that drive someone insane and literally blow up a city, while unleashing an Elder Dragon on the planet.

> >

> > Read the rest, it also -didn't- drive the commander insane and confirmed that Asura have the most sound theory on the workings of the universe.

>

> I couldn't, because you just edited it in, though in short being biased isn't the same thing as being wrong. Further it;s worth noting that the Eternal Alchemy isn't a unique concept, the Dwarven All and the Apostles Antiktheyria have delved into those subject in detail. The Eternal Alchemy has the primary benefit of showing a rough structure as a mechanism with working parts, HOWEVER as Ogden pointed out, the Asura don't understand it.

>

> In fact, they tend to make themselves progressively more ignorant by trying to see every single piece of it down to the smallest detail, they're all about seeing the forest from the trees. In doing so they detach themselves from the spiritual elements of what is, after all, a spiritual universe where they try to find the bits and moving parts of things they can't possibly understand. In doing so they tend to either go insane, or become power hungry, which is why they have created a society that is so individualistic and in many ways backwards that they elect their failures to positions of office and control of the government.

>

> It has value, but it's limited, and the Asura can't get past their limitations because they built their entire society around trying to understand.

 

Asuran society isn't what I'd call backwards or a failure considering they've accomplished more than all the other developed races at this point, they might not understand it fully but I'd argue they've done more with it. Even if it's not unique it's more than the Humans, Norn, Sylvari or even Charr have.

[Loesh.4697]

> @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > @"Loesh.4697" said:

> > > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > > > @"Loesh.4697" said:

> > > > > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > > > > > @"Loesh.4697" said:

> > > > > > > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said:

> > > > > > > > > > I'll be giving up all hope on ArenaNet's story telling ability when it comes to writing Gods if they make Lyssa a villain after all these hints.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I have doubts that the gods were ever good in the first place, they dumped humans on Tyria only to abandon them when the dragons show up, they're at the very least callous and don't even get me started on Kormir... Maybe I've just played too much pillars of eternity but I think Humanity and Tyria as a whole would be better off forgetting the gods.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Except [they didn't outright abandon humans](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Garden_of_the_Gods). They're looking for a new home for humanity, a safer home. And it sounds like that was the situation that drove the Six to bring humanity to Tyria in the first place too.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > That's a religious text written by a human priest, not a reliable source IMO.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I mean it's more reliable then what any of the other races have to say about the workings of the universe at this point.

> > > > >

> > > > > Omadd's machine says otherwise.

> > > >

> > > > Didn't that drive someone insane and literally blow up a city, while unleashing an Elder Dragon on the planet.

> > >

> > > Read the rest, it also -didn't- drive the commander insane and confirmed that Asura have the most sound theory on the workings of the universe.

> >

> > I couldn't, because you just edited it in, though in short being biased isn't the same thing as being wrong. Further it;s worth noting that the Eternal Alchemy isn't a unique concept, the Dwarven All and the Apostles Antiktheyria have delved into those subject in detail. The Eternal Alchemy has the primary benefit of showing a rough structure as a mechanism with working parts, HOWEVER as Ogden pointed out, the Asura don't understand it.

> >

> > In fact, they tend to make themselves progressively more ignorant by trying to see every single piece of it down to the smallest detail, they're all about seeing the forest from the trees. In doing so they detach themselves from the spiritual elements of what is, after all, a spiritual universe where they try to find the bits and moving parts of things they can't possibly understand. In doing so they tend to either go insane, or become power hungry, which is why they have created a society that is so individualistic and in many ways backwards that they elect their failures to positions of office and control of the government.

> >

> > It has value, but it's limited, and the Asura can't get past their limitations because they built their entire society around trying to understand.

>

> Asuran society isn't what I'd call backwards or a failure considering they've accomplished more than all the other developed races at this point, they might not understand it fully but I'd argue they've done more with it. Even if it's not unique it's more than the Humans, Norn, Sylvari or even Charr have.

 

Yes and no, I think. Asura have the benefit of developing fantastical technology by combining potent spellwork with engineering prowess. At the same time it's schizophrenic, it's accomplishments often coming from Asura who are able to distance themselves away from the societies pervasive egomania to work with the other races in some capacity. Likewise, while they have a more complete picture of things in the long view, they fail to grasp the more down to earth aspects of the Eternal Alchemy/The All, without anything to give their society a guiding light beyond the concept of success itself they basically make their people take a coinflip between potential heroism, villainy, or simple indifference to everyone and everything else.

 

They shine when they are working with everyone else, when the other races give them enough perspective to get there. But they are so absorbed in themselves that they find it hard to stray from pedestrian capitalistic interests. This is why I say the Humans and Sylvari have the closest thing to genuine heroism and competence in general. Their societies have aspects of them, like religion, that build some vague notion of compassion and understanding into their upbringing. Otherwise your society risks becoming ravenously self destructive like the Charr, schizophrenic with it's direction like the Asura, or....not even really a society at all so much as a collection of individuals like the Norn.

 

In that way, the Eternal Alchemy and the obsessive focus on understanding actually gives the Asura a nihilistic cynical outlook on the universe that cripples their ability to make real headway in the world beyond personal wealth and prestige.

[Stitch.1794]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> And as for Anise as "the other half of Lyssa" - there's pretty heavy but subtle suggestions in One Path Ends (S3E6) that Anise is Livia's daughter. The shared red hair, and the hint of Anise's age dropped by Canach in S2, only furthers this.

 

I suppose Livia could be lying, but she explicitly states in One Path Ends that she has no children:

 

Lazarus: Tell me, Livia. Do you have children? Grandchildren? Great-grandchildren?

Livia: I do not.

Lazarus: How disappointing. Your line dies with you. You've wasted lifetimes on me.

 

[ThatOddOne.4387]

> @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said:

> > I'll be giving up all hope on ArenaNet's story telling ability when it comes to writing Gods if they make Lyssa a villain after all these hints.

>

> I have doubts that the gods were ever good in the first place, they dumped humans on Tyria only to abandon them when the dragons show up, they're at the very least callous and don't even get me started on Kormir... Maybe I've just played too much pillars of eternity but I think Humanity and Tyria as a whole would be better off forgetting the gods.

 

I disagree intensely. There were no hints that they were callous or uncaring in intent towards humanity when the universe (As in the lore universe) was first created and this has only recently come about because ArenaNet has been infected by an "all religion is bad" attitude that should not apply to religion in a fantasy universe.

 

Even -Abaddon- was to a certain extent caring for the humans. The only one you could argue that was not was Dhuum and he was promptly replaced by Grenth.

 

They also do not fight the dragons for a damned good reason: It would -destroy- the planet. Just from them fighting, never mind if they win or lose, both of which would also destroy the planet. You cannot -possibly- blame the Gods for that.

 

Also, do not apply your own bias from one game onto another. They are entirely different lore universes and you should compartmentalise them.

 

What happens when the Humans abandon the Gods in the story? They, at best, become non-furred charr or taller asura. The Gods are such an ingrained part of the Human thematic (So much so that a God's blessing is part of the character creation, just like choosing which Legion your charr is part of) that if taken away you might as well just remove the humans and create a new race. The closest equivalent is the Norn dropping the Spirits.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > @"Loesh.4697" said:

> > > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > > > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > > > > > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said:

> > > > > > I'll be giving up all hope on ArenaNet's story telling ability when it comes to writing Gods if they make Lyssa a villain after all these hints.

> > > > >

> > > > > I have doubts that the gods were ever good in the first place, they dumped humans on Tyria only to abandon them when the dragons show up, they're at the very least callous and don't even get me started on Kormir... Maybe I've just played too much pillars of eternity but I think Humanity and Tyria as a whole would be better off forgetting the gods.

> > > >

> > > > Except [they didn't outright abandon humans](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Garden_of_the_Gods). They're looking for a new home for humanity, a safer home. And it sounds like that was the situation that drove the Six to bring humanity to Tyria in the first place too.

> > >

> > > That's a religious text written by a human priest, not a reliable source IMO.

> >

> > I mean it's more reliable then what any of the other races have to say about the workings of the universe at this point.

>

> Omadd's machine says otherwise. You've shown a clear bias in your views of the non human races, Asura have the best view on how the workings of the universe work which is confirmed by the machine.

 

Technicality: Omadd's machine doesn't talk about the workings of the universe. It shows the workings of Tyria - The All is not about the multiverse, like the Eternal Alchemy, but of the world itself. And [it actually mirrors human](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Map_of_the_All) and [jotun knowledge](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rising_Stars) just as much as the asuran Eternal Alchemy.

 

But neither does Garden of the Gods. Garden of the Gods, however, is a first hand account of someone meeting with Kormir about what the gods are doing and planning on doing. It is the sole source of information, so it is by default the most trustworthy one. And there is nothing to suggest that this plan is at all false, as this is exactly what the Six Gods had done in the past.

 

> @"Stitch.1794" said:

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > And as for Anise as "the other half of Lyssa" - there's pretty heavy but subtle suggestions in One Path Ends (S3E6) that Anise is Livia's daughter. The shared red hair, and the hint of Anise's age dropped by Canach in S2, only furthers this.

>

> I suppose Livia could be lying, but she explicitly states in One Path Ends that she has no children:

>

> Lazarus: Tell me, Livia. Do you have children? Grandchildren? Great-grandchildren?

> Livia: I do not.

> Lazarus: How disappointing. Your line dies with you. You've wasted lifetimes on me.

 

The tone does suggest an implied "even if I did I wouldn't tell you". But I was more focused on her interactions with Anise, _her superior_, during the Shining Blade Hideout instance. Both before and after the initiation, there was a rather mother-daughter feel to the interactions IMO; where the daughter has replaced the mother in a company but the mother still tries to stick her nose in now and then to the daughter's minor annoyance kind of feeling.

 

> @"ThatOddOne.4387" said:

> Even -Abaddon- was to a certain extent caring for the humans. The only one you could argue that was not was Dhuum and he was promptly replaced by Grenth.

 

Dhuum had been around for centuries by all accounts. Grenth is called the first Tyrian-born god, so Dhuum was a god when humanity came through the Mists at an unknown point prior to 786 BE, and the earliest date given for Grenth being a god, which sounds like it could be the date he ascended into godhood, is 48 BE. That's nearly 740 years where Dhuum was god of death. It's likely he started out good, or at least pretending to be good, and fell to evil over time like Abaddon (and, pitifully, Balthaddon).

[ThatOddOne.4387]

True enough.

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

 

> Dhuum had been around for centuries by all accounts. Grenth is called the first Tyrian-born god, so Dhuum was a god when humanity came through the Mists at an unknown point prior to 786 BE, and the earliest date given for Grenth being a god, which sounds like it could be the date he ascended into godhood, is 48 BE. That's nearly 740 years where Dhuum was god of death. It's likely he started out good, or at least pretending to be good, and fell to evil over time like Abaddon (and, pitifully, Balthaddon).

 

Alternatively, is it possible that he was never worshiped as part of the pantheon? There were remnants of Abaddon's worship (and worshipers) despite the passing centuries and a concerted effort by the Five to wipe all evidence that he existed, but we've never encountered so much as a ruined statue or fragmentary text suggesting Dhuum worship. Given that this was before widespread magic use- and, by extension, before widespread resurrections and undeath- perhaps he was tolerated as an unsavory aspect of the afterlife who was nonetheless more trouble to replace than he was worth?

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

The gods also left almost immediately after sealing Abaddon away, while they had remained for 48 years after Dhuum's defeat. So it's probable that the erasure was more effective for Dhuum (not to mention that they had the Keeper of Secrets to help erase knowledge of Dhuum).

[Jack Redline.5379]

> @"Lahmia.2193" said:

> Queen Jennah is Lyssa.

 

i loled thanks kind stranger

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> The gods also left almost immediately after sealing Abaddon away, while they had remained for 48 years after Dhuum's defeat. So it's probable that the erasure was more effective for Dhuum (not to mention that they had the Keeper of Secrets to help erase knowledge of Dhuum).

 

Would erasure be necessary, though? Or even desirable? After all, the Reapers are pretty candid about Dhuum's being the former god of death, even while they obscured that he still lived. In Abaddon's case, there was no getting around it, due to the whole knowledge-of-Abaddon-lets-him-open-a-portal-through-your-head thing, but Dhuum didn't require that kind of response.

[Kossage.9072]

What's interesting about Lyssa's lore is what comes from the [Nightfall manual's page 22](ftp://ftp.guildwars.com/downloads/gwn-manual-en.pdf), showing the darker side of her "dual nature":

 

> The patron goddess of Mesmers wears many masks, appearing in myriad forms. Patrons of the arts effusively praise her—particularly in the courts of wealthy Vabbi—but some fear her as a temperamental goddess. Behind her beautiful façade, some say, she maintains a deep communion with chaos. Displays of art and culture please her, but her wrath is terrible to behold. Her followers use her magic for illusion, trickery, and deception, twisting the magic of others to suit their own goals. By her whims, her enemies are brutalized by despair and hopelessness, while her beautiful followers are elevated to heights of rapture.

> Tyrian artists often portray Lyssa as two goddesses: twin figures of exquisite beauty entwined in an eternal dance. In Elona, the masks may change, and the dance may change, but Lyssa’s dual nature does not. She is beautiful to some and terrifying to others.

 

According to the same manual, page 27 describes how Lyssa "also features prominently in many [Elonian] spring rituals, particularly events dealing with courtship and matrimony," and how a sacred text of Lyssa referring to marriage is used in Sea of Sorrows novel where the twin goddesses' entwinement is compared to man and woman becoming one via an important bond: "Each companion to the other: two souls, united. [...] May no weapon sever the bond that holds your hands together, and may no word sever the love that keeps your hearts as one."

 

Given the ties of Lyssa's name to the spirit of mad rage of the same name in Greek mythology (notably leading Heracles/Hercules into the frenzy in which he slaughtered his family), the suggestion that many young men have glanced at her statues only to be entranced and die of thirst days later, and the fates of Abaddon and Balthazar who both shared some history with her, I can't help but wonder if, with some of the suggestions presented by some posters above, means that Lyssa may have had affairs with both of them (either at different points in time or not, depending on if she was acting as Lyssa or as Lyss and Ilya at the time).

 

If we go by the mad rage theme, it could be that whatever Lyssa loves is given their greatest desire (see the texts of Lyssa teaching people she came across the difference between illusion and truth and what is considered true beauty) only for them to suffer tenfold later because of being involved with her or due to unrelated reasons, kind of like in some mythologies you have the concept of the otherworldly woman/lover who, due to her own sinister reasons or via a chain of tragic events, (un)willingly leads her unfortunate lover to his doom. And the two men with the connection to Lyssa, if this theory were to hold weight, would be Abaddon and Balthazar who fell from grace by the end after experiencing bliss with Lyssa for a time.

 

What's also curious, and possibly further supporting the "dual nature" of the goddess (or the potential personality differences between Lyss and Ilya) is how she/they can be depicted as benevolent and "cruel". In the Orrian texts it's said that "For a while she lived, veiled and hidden, in the village of Wren. When the building of Arah was completed Lyssa was commanded to join the other gods, though her tears fell like rain among the western road." while in [Kormir's journal](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Journal_of_Kormir) found in "Facing the Truth" Kormir herself states how "The end of my time here approaches, and I find my thoughts straying. Perhaps Lyssa was right to mock me for lingering behind."

 

A goddess who was stated in texts to care for humanity so much that she grieved being forced to leave their side (in contrast to the originally demigod Grenth who was partly mortal at birth and had befriended seven heroes with whom he would battle Dhuum to end his reign of terror and ascend to give souls proper judgement and yet was never written to have grieved for leaving his homeland and people behind) still would mock Kormir for feeling the same compassion she herself once did. Whether this is Lyssa's dual nature at play, the Orrian texts being completely wrong about how she felt when she was called to Arah, or her masking her true feelings in front of Kormir for benevolent or not-so-benevolent reasons remains unknown, but the discrepancy in the two statements is interesting and perhaps yet another hint for things to come.

 

As for the gods themselves, I wouldn't call them villainous per se, at least not initially that we know of. Balthazar was apparently always ruthless to some extent (the devs cited the evidence of a text mentioning him carrying the severed head of his father although we don't know how the father died), and Abaddon was, based on some sources, was also up to no good to some extent before he truly began his rebellion. At best (and worst) they're like e.g. the Greek gods; powerful beings who are worthy of being called gods but who are flawed. They may attempt to do the good thing, and while they succeed at times, at other times their "meddling" only makes things worse. This was also [part of the reason](https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Dolyak-Express-Jan-10-2014/page/3#post3545340) why Jeff Grubb suggested the gods departed from Tyria to begin with (before we knew of some of the other reasons from Kormir):

 

> **Q:** Are the Six [gods] really gone or not? Their power is still very much present. Players can call upon the gods’ power with prayers, NPC priests can summon Reapers of Grenth etc., and their statues are still stuffed with energy. So if they left, why are their power still here?

> **Jeff Grubb:** The human gods still exist, and their power is still felt within Tyria. However, they have pulled back into the mists, leaving the humans to stand (or fall) on their own merits. There has been a tendency for the human gods to, um, meddle with their worshippers a bit much, and in the wake of the final battle of Abaddon, they have been trying to cut back. Also, the destruction of the big A and his replacement with Kormir in the Pantheon resolved one of their ties with physical contact with Tyria. So there are ties, but you just can’t ring them up to take on the Elder Dragons.

 

Melandru urged peace with the other races but was ignored. Dwayna led her people to peace, bringing them to a new world to build a new society. Lyssa tried to make people forget the past while teaching them valuable lessons. Grenth improved the fates of the dead after ascending. Balthazar purified Orr (likely from dragon corruption, but this is left ambiguous). These are all "good" acts even if some of these had a darker aspect to it later on as suggested by the parables among other things.

 

The curious thing to find out now is if Kormir will cause the downfall of the gods in a cycle as the admittedly unreliable [mad souls](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mad_Soul) suggested in Nightfall after her ascension:

 

> "A new god is born! A god that will destroy the others and bring about the end of the world! The cycle begins again!"

> "When you walk dark paths, you open your mind to nightmare. Poor Kormir, poor sad goddess raised up to the stars, cursed to see only infinite blackness between them...."

 

Not to mention the mystery of what exactly happened to Balthazar's stripped divinity. Based on previous lore and some potential dev hints, a new war deity may have risen in Balthazar's place although if so, it was odd that this wasn't really addressed in game (makes me wonder if previous drafts were more clear as Kormir's previous dialogue heard in S4E1 Daybreak trailer was clearer about the gods' reason for not fighting Elder Dragons than the actual PoF dialogue was). Even if this wasn't the case and the gods found another means of storing Balthy's power, hopefully the mystery gets addressed in game at some point, which is possible given dev replies that we'll catch a glimpse on how the churches of the deities (and likely the religious guilds like Zaishen, and maybe even the surviving Forged) are faring after PoF events.

 

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> And as for Anise as "the other half of Lyssa" - there's pretty heavy but subtle suggestions in One Path Ends (S3E6) that Anise is Livia's daughter. The shared red hair, and the hint of Anise's age dropped by Canach in S2, only furthers this.

 

When facing Lazarus in ["The Last Chance"](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Last_Chance#Dialogue), Livia pointed out she had no children or grandchildren, so it seems the whole mother-daughter dynamic suggested between her and Anise is more of a mentor-protege thing than actual blood relation.

 

> **Lazarus:** Tell me, Livia. Do you have children? Grandchildren? Great-grandchildren?

> **Livia:** I do not.

> **Lazarus:** How disappointing. Your line dies with you. You've wasted lifetimes on me.

> **Livia:** Your dying is worth it.

 

Having family seems like a weird thing to deny when Livia was determined to finish off her old enemy anyway; what better way to annoy the last mursaat in his last moments than by claiming her line would carry on while his would be extinguished forever? And yet she replied with a simple "I do not." to emphasize the sacrifices she had made while carrying out her duty, prompting Lazarus's gleeful response about her line dying then and there with her.

 

> @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> Omadd's machine says otherwise. You've shown a clear bias in your views of the non human races, Asura have the best view on how the workings of the universe work which is confirmed by the machine.

 

Ogden Stonehealer would disagree with that statement as per ["Hidden Arcana"](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Arcana#At_the_Durmand_Priory), though. ;)

 

> **Pact Commander:** How does this all tie into the Eternal Alchemy?

> **Ogden Stonehealer:** Ah yes. Only asura would attempt to quantify nature itself. But then, they are limited in perspective.

> **Ogden Stonehealer:** By attempting to define the undefinable, they actually move further from the truth rather than closer to it.

> **Ogden Stonehealer:** The Eternal Alchemy, nature, our world, the All—however you want to name it—is beyond understanding.

> **Ogden Stonehealer:** We can only grasp portions of it. Even the Elder Dragons are small relative to the All.

> **Ogden Stonehealer:** We see only certain layers of the Mists, the Elders, and Tyria. Anything beyond that is hidden from us.

> **Ogden Stonehealer:** We must content ourselves with first understanding what's before us.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

> @"Kossage.9072" said:

> What's interesting about Lyssa's lore is what comes from the [Nightfall manual's page 22](ftp://ftp.guildwars.com/downloads/gwn-manual-en.pdf), showing the darker side of her "dual nature":

>

> > The patron goddess of Mesmers wears many masks, appearing in myriad forms. Patrons of the arts effusively praise her—particularly in the courts of wealthy Vabbi—but some fear her as a temperamental goddess. Behind her beautiful façade, some say, she maintains a deep communion with chaos. Displays of art and culture please her, but her wrath is terrible to behold. Her followers use her magic for illusion, trickery, and deception, twisting the magic of others to suit their own goals. By her whims, her enemies are brutalized by despair and hopelessness, while her beautiful followers are elevated to heights of rapture.

> > Tyrian artists often portray Lyssa as two goddesses: twin figures of exquisite beauty entwined in an eternal dance. In Elona, the masks may change, and the dance may change, but Lyssa’s dual nature does not. She is beautiful to some and terrifying to others.

>

> According to the same manual, page 27 describes how Lyssa "also features prominently in many [Elonian] spring rituals, particularly events dealing with courtship and matrimony," and how a sacred text of Lyssa referring to marriage is used in Sea of Sorrows novel where the twin goddesses' entwinement is compared to man and woman becoming one via an important bond: "Each companion to the other: two souls, united. [...] May no weapon sever the bond that holds your hands together, and may no word sever the love that keeps your hearts as one."

>

> Given the ties of Lyssa's name to the spirit of mad rage of the same name in Greek mythology (notably leading Heracles/Hercules into the frenzy in which he slaughtered his family), the suggestion that many young men have glanced at her statues only to be entranced and die of thirst days later, and the fates of Abaddon and Balthazar who both shared some history with her, I can't help but wonder if, with some of the suggestions presented by some posters above, means that Lyssa may have had affairs with both of them (either at different points in time or not, depending on if she was acting as Lyssa or as Lyss and Ilya at the time).

>

> If we go by the mad rage theme, it could be that whatever Lyssa loves is given their greatest desire (see the texts of Lyssa teaching people she came across the difference between illusion and truth and what is considered true beauty) only for them to suffer tenfold later because of being involved with her or due to unrelated reasons, kind of like in some mythologies you have the concept of the otherworldly woman/lover who, due to her own sinister reasons or via a chain of tragic events, (un)willingly leads her unfortunate lover to his doom. And the two men with the connection to Lyssa, if this theory were to hold weight, would be Abaddon and Balthazar who fell from grace by the end after experiencing bliss with Lyssa for a time.

>

> What's also curious, and possibly further supporting the "dual nature" of the goddess (or the potential personality differences between Lyss and Ilya) is how she/they can be depicted as benevolent and "cruel". In the Orrian texts it's said that "For a while she lived, veiled and hidden, in the village of Wren. When the building of Arah was completed Lyssa was commanded to join the other gods, though her tears fell like rain among the western road." while in [Kormir's journal](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Journal_of_Kormir) found in "Facing the Truth" Kormir herself states how "The end of my time here approaches, and I find my thoughts straying. Perhaps Lyssa was right to mock me for lingering behind."

>

> A goddess who was stated in texts to care for humanity so much that she grieved being forced to leave their side (in contrast to the originally demigod Grenth who was partly mortal at birth and had befriended seven heroes with whom he would battle Dhuum to end his reign of terror and ascend to give souls proper judgement and yet was never written to have grieved for leaving his homeland and people behind) still would mock Kormir for feeling the same compassion she herself once did. Whether this is Lyssa's dual nature at play, the Orrian texts being completely wrong about how she felt when she was called to Arah, or her masking her true feelings in front of Kormir for benevolent or not-so-benevolent reasons remains unknown, but the discrepancy in the two statements is interesting and perhaps yet another hint for things to come.

>

> As for the gods themselves, I wouldn't call them villainous per se, at least not initially that we know of. Balthazar was apparently always ruthless to some extent (the devs cited the evidence of a text mentioning him carrying the severed head of his father although we don't know how the father died), and Abaddon was, based on some sources, was also up to no good to some extent before he truly began his rebellion. At best (and worst) they're like e.g. the Greek gods; powerful beings who are worthy of being called gods but who are flawed. They may attempt to do the good thing, and while they succeed at times, at other times their "meddling" only makes things worse. This was also [part of the reason](https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Dolyak-Express-Jan-10-2014/page/3#post3545340) why Jeff Grubb suggested the gods departed from Tyria to begin with (before we knew of some of the other reasons from Kormir):

>

> > **Q:** Are the Six [gods] really gone or not? Their power is still very much present. Players can call upon the gods’ power with prayers, NPC priests can summon Reapers of Grenth etc., and their statues are still stuffed with energy. So if they left, why are their power still here?

> > **Jeff Grubb:** The human gods still exist, and their power is still felt within Tyria. However, they have pulled back into the mists, leaving the humans to stand (or fall) on their own merits. There has been a tendency for the human gods to, um, meddle with their worshippers a bit much, and in the wake of the final battle of Abaddon, they have been trying to cut back. Also, the destruction of the big A and his replacement with Kormir in the Pantheon resolved one of their ties with physical contact with Tyria. So there are ties, but you just can’t ring them up to take on the Elder Dragons.

>

> Melandru urged peace with the other races but was ignored. Dwayna led her people to peace, bringing them to a new world to build a new society. Lyssa tried to make people forget the past while teaching them valuable lessons. Grenth improved the fates of the dead after ascending. Balthazar purified Orr (likely from dragon corruption, but this is left ambiguous). These are all "good" acts even if some of these had a darker aspect to it later on as suggested by the parables among other things.

>

> The curious thing to find out now is if Kormir will cause the downfall of the gods in a cycle as the admittedly unreliable [mad souls](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mad_Soul) suggested in Nightfall after her ascension:

>

> > "A new god is born! A god that will destroy the others and bring about the end of the world! The cycle begins again!"

> > "When you walk dark paths, you open your mind to nightmare. Poor Kormir, poor sad goddess raised up to the stars, cursed to see only infinite blackness between them...."

>

> Not to mention the mystery of what exactly happened to Balthazar's stripped divinity. Based on previous lore and some potential dev hints, a new war deity may have risen in Balthazar's place although if so, it was odd that this wasn't really addressed in game (makes me wonder if previous drafts were more clear as Kormir's previous dialogue heard in S4E1 Daybreak trailer was clearer about the gods' reason for not fighting Elder Dragons than the actual PoF dialogue was). Even if this wasn't the case and the gods found another means of storing Balthy's power, hopefully the mystery gets addressed in game at some point, which is possible given dev replies that we'll catch a glimpse on how the churches of the deities (and likely the religious guilds like Zaishen, and maybe even the surviving Forged) are faring after PoF events.

>

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > And as for Anise as "the other half of Lyssa" - there's pretty heavy but subtle suggestions in One Path Ends (S3E6) that Anise is Livia's daughter. The shared red hair, and the hint of Anise's age dropped by Canach in S2, only furthers this.

>

> When facing Lazarus in ["The Last Chance"](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Last_Chance#Dialogue), Livia pointed out she had no children or grandchildren, so it seems the whole mother-daughter dynamic suggested between her and Anise is more of a mentor-protege thing than actual blood relation.

>

> > **Lazarus:** Tell me, Livia. Do you have children? Grandchildren? Great-grandchildren?

> > **Livia:** I do not.

> > **Lazarus:** How disappointing. Your line dies with you. You've wasted lifetimes on me.

> > **Livia:** Your dying is worth it.

>

> Having family seems like a weird thing to deny when Livia was determined to finish off her old enemy anyway; what better way to annoy the last mursaat in his last moments than by claiming her line would carry on while his would be extinguished forever? And yet she replied with a simple "I do not." to emphasize the sacrifices she had made while carrying out her duty, prompting Lazarus's gleeful response about her line dying then and there with her.

>

> > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > Omadd's machine says otherwise. You've shown a clear bias in your views of the non human races, Asura have the best view on how the workings of the universe work which is confirmed by the machine.

>

> Ogden Stonehealer would disagree with that statement as per ["Hidden Arcana"](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Arcana#At_the_Durmand_Priory), though. ;)

>

> > **Pact Commander:** How does this all tie into the Eternal Alchemy?

> > **Ogden Stonehealer:** Ah yes. Only asura would attempt to quantify nature itself. But then, they are limited in perspective.

> > **Ogden Stonehealer:** By attempting to define the undefinable, they actually move further from the truth rather than closer to it.

> > **Ogden Stonehealer:** The Eternal Alchemy, nature, our world, the All—however you want to name it—is beyond understanding.

> > **Ogden Stonehealer:** We can only grasp portions of it. Even the Elder Dragons are small relative to the All.

> > **Ogden Stonehealer:** We see only certain layers of the Mists, the Elders, and Tyria. Anything beyond that is hidden from us.

> > **Ogden Stonehealer:** We must content ourselves with first understanding what's before us.

 

There's no saying he's right about it though, he's as flawed a source as any mortal no matter his current lack of mortality.

[Cristalyan.5728]

We know that Balthazar is dead (we know?). His "divinity" has been stripped prior of our fight - so, we basically fought a very powerful mortal. We also know that the "divine power" of a "god" if left free can destroy the world. Kormir "ate" Abadon's power. What happened with Balthazar's power?

The world is still alive - that means this "divine power" is not free. So, the only logical conclusion is that someone "ate" this power. Who?

The story tells no word about another mortal replacing Balthazar. That means only the other "gods" remains. The "divine power" being **indestructible** means it cannot be split between several entities.

I can see only one credible variant for what happened next: **One** of the gods absorbed Balthazar's power. The only way to absorb that power and to respect the attributes of **unique**, **indestructible**, etc - is to find an "empty" (without "divine power") entity to absorb it. In my opinion one of the two entities forming Lyssa transferred its power to the other and then it absorbed Balthazar "divine power". So, technically, the two twin entities now are two different gods acting under the same appearance. This is how Lyssa acted until now also - two different facets. Balthazar is dead - long live Balthazar !

 

But, I keep my opinion about the fact that all the contradictions in the story with the "gods" started to turn the gw2 lore into something less and less credible:

 

> @"Kossage.9072" said:

 

> Ogden Stonehealer would disagree with that statement as per ["Hidden Arcana"](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Arcana#At_the_Durmand_Priory), though. ;)

>

> > **Pact Commander:** How does this all tie into the Eternal Alchemy?

> > **Ogden Stonehealer:** Ah yes. Only asura would attempt to quantify nature itself. But then, they are limited in perspective.

> > **Ogden Stonehealer:** By attempting to define the undefinable, they actually move further from the truth rather than closer to it.

> > **Ogden Stonehealer:** The Eternal Alchemy, nature, our world, the All—however you want to name it—is beyond understanding.

> > **Ogden Stonehealer:** We can only grasp portions of it. Even the Elder Dragons are small relative to the All.

> > **Ogden Stonehealer:** We see only certain layers of the Mists, the Elders, and Tyria. Anything beyond that is hidden from us.

> > **Ogden Stonehealer:** We must content ourselves with first understanding what's before us.

 

If what Ogden said is even partially true and is not entirely the result of an old dwarf hallucinations, this is the description of our universe and what we know about the moments **before** The Big Bang;

- "By attempting to define the undefinable, they actually move further from the truth rather than closer to it" - this match the scientific statement "we cannot find what happened **before** our Universe came into existence because no laws of physics existed at that time"

- 'We can only grasp portions of it. Even the Elder Dragons are small relative to the All" - well, our scientist believes that our Universe is part of a "Multiverse". We only have knowledge of our Universe (a portion of the Multiverse). **Even the elephants are small compared with the Complete**- why elephants? I don't know. And of course, I cannot explain what the "Complete" is. But my statement cannot be false. Or worse than Ogden's statements.

- "We see only certain layers of the Mists, the Elders, and Tyria. Anything beyond that is hidden from us" - this completes the first statement - we cannot know what was before of the Big Bang. And we can only have a partial awareness of our Universe. But, again, why we have gods? Only to see that they are on the same situation as we are - being able to see only portions of the Universe? Are they GODS?

- "We must content ourselves with first understanding what's before us" - **We are not content**. This is the reason why we worship the gods - in a hope that they will reveal the hidden aspects of the Universe to us. And in a hope that they will protect us. But it seems they cannot do more than us in this regard. My question is why we still worship them?

 

Conclusion: Having five gods or five gods acting as six or even six gods is not important anymore. Even the lore team felt this and left the things in this state, without any effort to clarify something. Because GW2 turned into a darwinist Universe ruled by gods :#

HM- this gives me an idea: What if the Dragons are the symbols of the dinosaurs? On Earth a meteorite ended their existence. On Tyria we can have a completely different scenario: The gods creates an asteroid to end the Dragons. This asteroid hits Tyria, kills the Dragons and absorbs all the magic from dragons BUT after the Dragons demise it will release this magic at such a rate that Tyria will survive.

 

Gods to praise the GOD! We are safe !!

[Imperadordf.2687]

@"Cristalyan.5728" Kralkatorrik and Aurene ate Balthazar's power. We literally saw them consuming the magic released by Balth's death.

[norbes.3620]

> @"Kossage.9072" said:

>

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > And as for Anise as "the other half of Lyssa" - there's pretty heavy but subtle suggestions in One Path Ends (S3E6) that Anise is Livia's daughter. The shared red hair, and the hint of Anise's age dropped by Canach in S2, only furthers this.

>

> When facing Lazarus in ["The Last Chance"](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Last_Chance#Dialogue), Livia pointed out she had no children or grandchildren, so it seems the whole mother-daughter dynamic suggested between her and Anise is more of a mentor-protege thing than actual blood relation.

>

> > **Lazarus:** Tell me, Livia. Do you have children? Grandchildren? Great-grandchildren?

> > **Livia:** I do not.

> > **Lazarus:** How disappointing. Your line dies with you. You've wasted lifetimes on me.

> > **Livia:** Your dying is worth it.

>

> Having family seems like a weird thing to deny when Livia was determined to finish off her old enemy anyway; what better way to annoy the last mursaat in his last moments than by claiming her line would carry on while his would be extinguished forever? And yet she replied with a simple "I do not." to emphasize the sacrifices she had made while carrying out her duty, prompting Lazarus's gleeful response about her line dying then and there with her.

>

 

Dunno why u Quote only half of it just to repeat whats already mentioned.

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said that he got the Impression that there could be a possibility for this Scenario based on some hints

 

Thats stating it as his very own opinion about possibilitys and is considering that u dont necessarily tell ur arch enemy the truth right bevor ur going to finish him off. only villains start big talk when they are about to realize their ultimate plans, so that the hero can turn tides last Minute wich would not have beeen possibile if the other guy would not have started bragging bout his superiority..

 

it is not stated somewhereif what livia said to Lazarus was true or not, but as Long as ist not clarified by further developement ist up for everyone to decide for his own

 

me for example prefere the livia dont have children Version cuz of her restless ambitions but i can ackknowledge the arguments for the Anise / half divinitys reach are her descendents..

 

> > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > Omadd's machine says otherwise. You've shown a clear bias in your views of the non human races, Asura have the best view on how the workings of the universe work which is confirmed by the machine.

>

> Ogden Stonehealer would disagree with that statement as per ["Hidden Arcana"](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Arcana#At_the_Durmand_Priory), though. ;)

>

> > **Pact Commander:** How does this all tie into the Eternal Alchemy?

> > **Ogden Stonehealer:** Ah yes. Only asura would attempt to quantify nature itself. But then, they are limited in perspective.

> > **Ogden Stonehealer:** By attempting to define the undefinable, they actually move further from the truth rather than closer to it.

> > **Ogden Stonehealer:** The Eternal Alchemy, nature, our world, the All—however you want to name it—is beyond understanding.

> > **Ogden Stonehealer:** We can only grasp portions of it. Even the Elder Dragons are small relative to the All.

> > **Ogden Stonehealer:** We see only certain layers of the Mists, the Elders, and Tyria. Anything beyond that is hidden from us.

> > **Ogden Stonehealer:** We must content ourselves with first understanding what's before us.

 

still the PC did not see everything omadds machine was about to Show cuz the Connections got interrupted by future DW

 

Taimi could have had a better view with more Details or more at all cuz ist hinted she played around with the machine for a while during LS3 but if she did ist not mentioned anywhere what she had seen

 

additional to that i would not go as far as to say that omadds machine gave a "clear view" - it was more a sequence of thats things are connected somehow and about stuff that might happen someday. so it was 1 possibility for a future Happening

at least for me "the all" is more than that

[Cristalyan.5728]

> @"Imperadordf.2687" said:

> @"Cristalyan.5728" Kralkatorrik and Aurene ate Balthazar's power. We literally saw them consuming the magic released by Balth's death.

 

Kralkatorrik and Aurene only ate the magic energy of Balthazar. We know that the magic contained in one entity is not enough to destroy the world - we already killed Zhaitan and Mordremoth.

The question was what happened with the **divine power** of Balthazar. According to the lore and Kormir's statements this kind of power can destroy the world if left free.

[Imperadordf.2687]

> @"Cristalyan.5728" said:

> > @"Imperadordf.2687" said:

> > @"Cristalyan.5728" Kralkatorrik and Aurene ate Balthazar's power. We literally saw them consuming the magic released by Balth's death.

>

> Kralkatorrik and Aurene only ate the magic energy of Balthazar. We know that the magic contained in one entity is not enough to destroy the world - we already killed Zhaitan and Mordremoth.

> The question was what happened with the **divine power** of Balthazar. According to the lore and Kormir's statements this kind of power can destroy the world if left free.

 

I couldn't find anything about that "Divine Power" you're talking about. Would you mind sharing source?

[norbes.3620]

> @"Cristalyan.5728" said:

> > @"Imperadordf.2687" said:

> > @"Cristalyan.5728" Kralkatorrik and Aurene ate Balthazar's power. We literally saw them consuming the magic released by Balth's death.

>

> Kralkatorrik and Aurene only ate the magic energy of Balthazar. We know that the magic contained in one entity is not enough to destroy the world - we already killed Zhaitan and Mordremoth.

> The question was what happened with the **divine power** of Balthazar. According to the lore and Kormir's statements this kind of power can destroy the world if left free.

 

During the LS3 ist stated that the Magic Balance is already pretty messed up and that it might not have been the case so far but killing more Dragons would alwas endanger the world cuz ist not just the release of magical power thats going to make the world explode but the Magic as the planets lifebase gets shaken too much in ist core

i personally doubt that it would end in 1 devasating Explosion or something like that but that it leads to more natural disasters while the planet is falling apart slowly at start but getting a faster process over time wich would be faster depending on how strng this natural Balance gets disrupted (how many Dragons die/how much time is between that)

 

in dialogue with kormir she tells us that balth got stripped from his divinity and his title. this can be interpreted with him not having any divine power anymore at all only some Basic stuff (light some charrs sword) and had to empower himself like he did to acually be able to rampage around like he wanted to (an did during PoF)

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

> @"Cristalyan.5728" said:

> We know that Balthazar is dead (we know?). His "divinity" has been stripped prior of our fight - so, we basically fought a very powerful mortal. We also know that the "divine power" of a "god" if left free can destroy the world. Kormir "ate" Abadon's power. What happened with Balthazar's power?

> The world is still alive - that means this "divine power" is not free. So, the only logical conclusion is that someone "ate" this power. Who?

That, or they let it loose in a distant enough corner of the Mists that we weren't affected. The issue with Abaddon was that the Realm of Torment was peppered with holes opening back out onto Tyria- there's one in the next clearing over from where we fight him, even, overlooking the Sunspear Great Hall in Istan. Without that, what's stopping the gods from nuking two or three realms of the Mists out of existence, as long as there was nothing they were too attached to living there?

 

> @"Imperadordf.2687" said:

> > @"Cristalyan.5728" said:

> > > @"Imperadordf.2687" said:

> > > @"Cristalyan.5728" Kralkatorrik and Aurene ate Balthazar's power. We literally saw them consuming the magic released by Balth's death.

> >

> > Kralkatorrik and Aurene only ate the magic energy of Balthazar. We know that the magic contained in one entity is not enough to destroy the world - we already killed Zhaitan and Mordremoth.

> > The question was what happened with the **divine power** of Balthazar. According to the lore and Kormir's statements this kind of power can destroy the world if left free.

>

> I couldn't find anything about that "Divine Power" you're talking about. Would you mind sharing source?

 

It goes back to Nightfall, but Kormir [gets into it here.](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Facing_the_Truth#In_the_Sanctum) Or to quote from GW1: ["At the moment of his death, Abaddon unleashed all of his pent-up power. With nowhere to go, this rogue power would have destroyed both the realm of Torment and Tyria."](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Night_Falls#Entries) Kormir dealt with that by absorbing Abaddon's power- his godhood- before it could run rampant. However, when we meet her in PoF, she tells us that Balthazar has already been stripped of that power, something [our character had already suspected since the start of Flashpoint](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Taimi%27s_Pet_Project#At_Rata_Novus), since looking at a god is supposed to be a blinding experience.