Dont call me a boss!

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

This is a long-standing problem in video games that have voice acting but the player character's identity and especially name isn't fixed, and the most common solution is the one used here: give the PC a "substitute name" for NPCs to address them by (usually their role in the story or some job title associated with same) so the writers don't have to awkwardly dance around referring to them in dialog.

[Greener.6204]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > The term's origin is not endearment.

> >

> > Outside Tyria, maybe, but within the scope of Tyria it seems to be, since both Taimi and Elli use it in a kind-hearted manner..

>

> I don't think we know anything about the in-game term except how it's used by two NPCs, entirely consistently with how it gets used in our world. Given that folks speak English and not "Tyrian," in the absence of an etymology, I'm inclined to assume the game's writers are using the term from our world, just as they have one with so many other terms. Of course, there's no evidence either way, so it's just an assumption and a preference to not read too much into limited facts.

 

I've grown up using "boss" as a term of endearment. My father and uncles often say, "Aye, boss!" upon someone entering a room, especially if they haven't seen them in a while.

[Fenella.2634]

I don't see how calling someone "Boss" or "Commander" is treating them like a god. Do many people address God as "Boss"?

The PC is indeed the Pact Commander and the leader of DW. Those are just facts. Also, the substitute PC name has to work in multiple languages. Whereas English does not have that much gender distinction, other languages do. So, for example with "friend" you'd have to record each line twice in these languages, which is indeed a big deal.

I am playing the German version. Some of the PC substitute names that came before "Commander" were really cringeworthy in their effort to be neutral.

[norbes.3620]

I think part of this Problem is that ur character got no relation to braham and rox cuz ur Character met them in LS1 wich some People never played.. so getting called "Boss" in one way or the other from some weirdos who just showed up is kinda strange.

From HoT onwards it should be better cuz the character is back into the Military Position in a war Situation. and Commander is a Fitting term there

 

additional it is getting better from there onwards. u get called in different ways (still mostly commander) but the reaction of the closest NPC around u got some character in them so it does not feel so awkward

 

i remember playing the race stories first times while i was pretty comfortable with the sylvarie titles (Valiant and herald) while i had my Problems with the human Story cuz i just felt like People were mocking me or simply awkward (hero of shaemore an advocat of the crown)

it is something i had to endure cuz i knew why im given titles in order make NPC able to speak to me and still i never liked it nor i do today how some of those feel

while i can accept the commander i dont like Boss either

[Spellshaper.6240]

Ok guys, I see a lot of you are proud of what you have done and proud to be called "boss", "commander" or similar. I hope we all agree, that our character is not a god and a lot of our friends and other people did brave deeds as well, so let me turn around the question and ask:

 

**Who do you (as a character or player) respect? Who is your "boss" or "commander" (that you would have no problem call him/her that)? Who is the most honorable, respected or famous person in GW2 universe for you?**

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > The term's origin is not endearment.

> >

> > Outside Tyria, maybe, but within the scope of Tyria it seems to be, since both Taimi and Elli use it in a kind-hearted manner..

>

> I don't think we know anything about the in-game term except how it's used by two NPCs, entirely consistently with how it gets used in our world. Given that folks speak English and not "Tyrian," in the absence of an etymology, I'm inclined to assume the game's writers are using the term from our world, just as they have one with so many other terms. Of course, there's no evidence either way, so it's just an assumption and a preference to not read too much into limited facts.

 

"Poobah" doesn't exist in the English Dictionary. It is, at best, a reference to a TV show, but the reference doesn't relate to its term of use. Or they used it because it sounds similar to Bookah and got to it by toying with consonants (I do this a lot to make up names for various settings).

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > > The term's origin is not endearment.

> > >

> > > Outside Tyria, maybe, but within the scope of Tyria it seems to be, since both Taimi and Elli use it in a kind-hearted manner..

> >

> > I don't think we know anything about the in-game term except how it's used by two NPCs, entirely consistently with how it gets used in our world. Given that folks speak English and not "Tyrian," in the absence of an etymology, I'm inclined to assume the game's writers are using the term from our world, just as they have one with so many other terms. Of course, there's no evidence either way, so it's just an assumption and a preference to not read too much into limited facts.

>

> "Poobah" doesn't exist in the English Dictionary. It is, at best, a reference to a TV show, but the reference doesn't relate to its term of use. Or they used it because it sounds similar to Bookah and got to it by toying with consonants (I do this a lot to make up names for various settings).

 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pooh-bah

> Origin: Pooh-Bah, character in Gilbert and Sullivan's opera The Mikado (1885) bearing the title Lord-High-Everything-Else

 

Not a TV show. Its use has has evolved over time. It's often used ironically, sardonically, affectionately, and insultingly.

 

They might have used it because it sounds similar to Bookah. Or the term Bookah might have been chosen because it sounds similar to Pooh-Bah, and they got to it by toying with consonants. The use of "bookah" in the game is similar: an insult dressed up to sound like a compliment.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

>The use of "bookah" in the game is similar: an insult dressed up to sound like a compliment.

 

Erm, no. Bookah is in no way a compliment. It's literally calling someone "idiot" (as opposed to calling someone a dumbass). That is in no way sounding like a compliment in of itself.

 

The pooh-bah spelling may be why it didn't show up when searching poobah, but point being, it isn't an "insult used affectionately" in Tyria, regardless of it's uncommon origins in English.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> >The use of "bookah" in the game is similar: an insult dressed up to sound like a compliment.

>

> Erm, no. Bookah is in no way a compliment. It's literally calling someone "idiot" (as opposed to calling someone a kitten). That is in no way sounding like a compliment in of itself.

>

> The pooh-bah spelling may be why it didn't show up when searching poobah, but point being, it isn't an "insult used affectionately" in Tyria, regardless of it's uncommon origins in English.

 

I apologize that I've been unable to get the idea across:

Taimi uses poobah affectionately, but that doesn't tell us anything about the meaning of the term in Tyria; it only tells us about her relationship with the Commander. Occam's Razor suggests that it has the same connotations in Tyria as in our world, but that's not "proof;" it's just means we should accept the most convenient theory in the absence of any actual evidence.

 

Regardless, the reason the whole exchange is funny is that it illustrates just how hard it it is to come up with a way of addressing the member of the new guild to whom everyone looks at for leadership. Whether the Commander wants it or not (whether the OP sees it or not),The GL of ~~Fate's Razor~~ Dragon's Watch is the Commander.

 

****

 

In English, poobah is a term that was born as an insult **and** yet, like any term, can also be used affectionately. At root, "Grand Poobah" is an insult, intended as an insult (well more of a damning with faint praise), and yet it sounds soft for English-speaking ears. (As for why it does, that's a whole area of linguistics and well beyond the scope of this thread, from which we've digressed substantially.) That allows it to be used as a put down in situations were putting down someone in power might be risky.

 

Bookah might have been invented because it sounds like poohbah. Or not; we have no idea (and it might have been an accident even so). And it is also intended as an insult, but does **not** sound like one to humans. As evidenced by the human NPC who says (I paraphrase) "met an asura. I think she likes me. Called me a bookah." i.e. the misunderstanding is only possible because this particular insult is costumed enough that it can be interpreted otherwise.

 

(Plus it's easy to make a case for the asura deliberately using "bookah" because they know it's going to be misunderstood. There are plenty of examples of this in every language, with "the other" or downtrodden finding a way to put down those with more influence or power, without themselves getting burned by it.)

 

It doesn't matter in the least if we don't see an example of bookah being used as affectionately, because _any term not matter how horrid_ can be used affectionately. "You dork" is an insult, but I know many brothers & sisters who use it with love. (And some who switch back and forth; context matters, too.)

 

[NanoEliteSixSixSix.8935]

But I'm the boss. I'm the boss. I'm very very sorry for your loss.

 

Wait, wrong boss...

[Fenella.2634]

Spellshaper, are you even reading the comments?

 

It might be a cultural thing, but IRL I'd never call my boss "Boss", because it would come off as way too casual and rather disrespectful. So yes, the DW members calling their leader "Boss" actually does not sound overly formal, quite the opposite. Even insulting, when Caithe does it. :P Might be different for other players' countries, though.

 

There are several named Commanders in the Pact: The PC of course, but also the representatives of the three orders and a few more in LS2. So, I guess our PC would refer to those as "Commander"? It's not a compliment, it's simply a rank.

 

The NPC the PCs usually should respect and look up to was Trahearne, right? But he's not a Commander. The correct way to address him is "Marshall", not "Boss" and not "Commander". Maybe "brother" if you play as a Sylvari.

After HoT it's not so clear anymore. The PC is no longer in the Pact and he or she is in fact the leader of DW. There is no direct superior and nobody really seems to have a plan anyway.

[Spellshaper.6240]

Why wouldnt I read the comments? You think if I disagree with you and others or if I am in minority here, I dont read the comments? Please try to be more respectful for other opinions. I have read all the comments, half of them dont understand what I mean and some of them are even off topic. I am afraid some others (probably including you) only read OP or only selected posts or its parts.

 

I dont mind that, I was just offended by your unjustified post. I know a lot of people disagree with me, but I dont need to be persuaded about your truth. I have other opinion, so please be respectful as I respect yours.

 

Also I have asked another question before and it was ignored by everyone including you mostly with offtopic posts. So please dont tell me, I am the one dont reading the comments.

[Fenella.2634]

Sorry, I didn't mean to be offensive, I was just really wondering.

Several people have tried to explain to you that "Commander" is simply our rank in the Pact and that the DW calling the PC "Boss" might be way more friendly than you think. Yet, you still seem to be convinced that this is somehow related to how people treat gods. There is also the fact that most dialog in the story is being voiced and for most player name substitutes you'd need two takes, one for each gender. There are few options that work for both genders. This might not be as obvious in the English version, though, but it still is important for the other versions.

 

Also, I thought my two postings so far on this topic have been quite on topic. If they are not, I apologize for misunderstanding your questions.

[Spellshaper.6240]

Its ok Fenella, I have read this topic several times actually, so it made me mad, that your first sentence was that :(

 

As I said before, I understand why characters use commander sometimes, I have a bit more problem with boss, but I guess it can also be justified sometimes. I was talking about general perception of the character and these titles were just the (probably poor) illustration of that. I am not native English, so I have problems to express myself, thats why I dont blame anyone, that they dont get what I mean.

 

I was asked, if I can give the example from the game. I honestly forgot the exact phrase from before, but now I have another example from yesterday.

 

I will only paraphrase, as I dont remember exact words and also I dont want to spoil anything:

_"Unfortunately the monster left before we could fight it, but you wasnt there, so it was probably for the better as we couldnt beat it (without you)."_

 

This kind of tone is very consistent throughout the story and my opinion is, that it makes story worse, less believable and shrinks space for other interesting and strong characters. It also makes main character distant (from me). I dont know if this explanation is any better, I just want to say that the title itself is not what I was talking about the whole time.

 

 

[Fenella.2634]

Ah, I see, well this is something I actually quite agree to. :lol: I'd also like to see the NPCs shine a little more and be more competent on their own. At some points in the story it became highly questionable how Destiny's Edge ever thought they could take on Kralkatorrik with their level of skill and teamwork. I agree that especially "our guild" should be quite competent on their own. I mean, we're trying to save Tyria with that raid team, right...? :)

 

The problem is that this does not sit right with a lot of players, unfortunately. Just revisit older threads about Trahearne who dared to have a higher rank than the PC, or nowadays Taimi who dares to actually get things done offscreen. I really liked that the PC in the core story was not inherently "special" or the "chosen one", but rather at the right place at the right time and all in all pretty good at surviving. That made the character a bit more relatable. But as things are today I rather take the route of having a PC who is a bit of a "hero chosen by destiny / Glint" and having the NPCs a little downplayed, than having another Hearts and Minds as a result of fans hating contributing NPCs.

[starlinvf.1358]

> @"Fenella.2634" said:

> Spellshaper, are you even reading the comments?

>

> It might be a cultural thing, but IRL I'd never call my boss "Boss", because it would come off as way too casual and rather disrespectful. So yes, the DW members calling their leader "Boss" actually does not sound overly formal, quite the opposite. Even insulting, when Caithe does it. :P Might be different for other players' countries, though.

>

> There are several named Commanders in the Pact: The PC of course, but also the representatives of the three orders and a few more in LS2. So, I guess our PC would refer to those as "Commander"? It's not a compliment, it's simply a rank.

>

> The NPC the PCs usually should respect and look up to was Trahearne, right? But he's not a Commander. The correct way to address him is "Marshall", not "Boss" and not "Commander". Maybe "brother" if you play as a Sylvari.

> After HoT it's not so clear anymore. The PC is no longer in the Pact and he or she is in fact the leader of DW. There is no direct superior and nobody really seems to have a plan anyway.

 

Is that a white collar thing? I used to be on job sites where "Boss" gets tossed around frequently with immediate supervisory ranks, usually as a quick acknowledgement. I always figured its because "Sir" is either too formal, or giving respect to rank that might not actually deserve it.... so its more a informal or low brow labeling. "Mister" gets used for more formal exchanges, since the actual titles are either too long, or sound pompous in conversation.

 

Given Jory's gruff, dry demeanor (modeled after Noir Gumshoes), this is not only perfectly inline with her personality concept, I'm almost positive shes the one that started it. (Been ages since that story chapter)

[Fenella.2634]

Might be a cultural thing. I'm not working in an English speaking country. We usually call our bosses by name, either given name or Mr/Mrs Surname, depending on the person. If I'd call a superior "boss", it'd come off as joking. I do that within my guild sometimes, though, but never in a RL business setting.

So, Jory or Braham calling my PC "boss" does not sound overly formal to me. :)

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

from the wiki:

Poobah/Pooh-Bah

A term used by asura to refer to those in command above them, but in a less respectful, more playful, context.

 

so, all is fine.

[phs.6089]

Get used to it, boss. Good news Taimi will almost never call you 'boss'.

[Spellshaper.6240]

I love Taimi already, now you made me like her even more. Thanks.

[ShadowDove.8329]

In the end, I think it's a matter of personal opinion, and the culture in which you grew up, that shape your perspective on whether or not 'boss' and 'commander' sound like titles to elevate the addressed to a god-like role. Many people have said that they don't think it is so (and neither do I), but I suppose it can be a bit disconcerting to wrap your head around if you're not used to seeing it

[Maarthorn Eranir.9601]

> @"Randulf.7614" said:

> Stick with it. Eventually you become the "Poobah"

 

That's "Grand Poobah" to you ;)

[Vayne.8563]

It's not overly formal, because guess what? You're not formally their boss. They choose to follow you. You don't pay them. There's no contract. So calling you boss is more of an affectionate sign of respect, but yeah, it's not formal, nor should it be. This seems like a pretty minor point to me, over all.

[ShadowDove.8329]

I had a colleague who used to call our boss 'boss', it felt like a casual yet still respectful way of addressing her. I call my guild leader 'boss' sometimes, with the same connotation.

[MisterCheshire.4029]

It's a bit hard to properly address the player without addressing the changes in dialogue it brings. What may seem to be a small change may require 20+ Hours of work in order to implement. I'm perfectly okay with Boss or Commander, just as I was okay with Centurion, Savant, etc.