Dungeons are dead

[Chadramar.8156]

Changing the storymode to be a solo-friendly part of the personal story would be a good thing both for unlocking the explorables _and_ for the flow of the personal story, since it makes no sense for Destiny's Edge to pop up out of nowhere and treat you like a buddy if you never met them before.

[Linken.6345]

> @Doam.8305 said:

> They nerfed dungeons and it doesn't matter if they undid it or not the damage is done the speed runners bailed

>

> This is a product and all it takes is one instance to drive away consumers for good all you have today are people working torwards legendaries but the core running bracket is dead moved on to greener pastures. Hence where the statement originates in addition to the game not getting any new dungeons in years as no runner in their right mind would be alright with running the same tired material for years on end. Unlike in other games old dungeons aren't kept alive through solo runners because this game lacks power creep.

 

Lets face it speed runners wouldent take new people anyway, they nerf the raw gold yes if you do the same path all the time.

8 diffrent path over how many days you like net you 5 bonus gold and 150 tokens. ( add in the 100 tokens a path instead of 80 daily and its not so bad anymore)

[Rennie.6750]

They're showing their age, they're buggy and unpolished but to me it's still better content than fractals because it's more straightforward and has less annoying mechanics I can't skip. Sad they're not adding any new dungeons with the expansion. Also, there's no path to ascendant gear and that really sucks, even if getting exotics, xp and money is 10 times better than in fractals.

 

Fractal rewards are really insulting, I could buy myself half a set of exotics when I reached 80 simply with dungeon tokens, and now that I've been doing fractals for weeks all I have to show for it is one effing ring and loads of junk I have to spend 10 minutes to sort out and vendor after every run...

[TheGrimm.5624]

I wouldn't mind seeing new dungeons and the old ones' fights revamped. Took me a long time to pin it down why I liked Fractals but not dungeons and it came down to the fights. The everyone just stack here issue with dungeons lead to not very engaging combat. At least to me the fights in fractals feel more dynamic and the fight doesn't feel the same every time.

 

I still see room for both. Fractals should be used to give us encounters outside of the zones' story arcs or be used to represent prior living story events. (Hint hint dev team how about the Marionette fractal, yes!?) Where as the dungeons should be anchors in zones dealing with the story of that zone. Key here is to keep the topic alive as we have seen never doesn't always mean never if there is player interest in it. I also see dungeons as a good source to introduce in game armor sets to allow people to work towards. Fractals could do something like this as well but it feels more like a dungeon feature since each set should be linked to different dungeons. People do like to work towards skins and it grants that feel of progression that players that like MMOs are drawn towards. Oh nice armor, you did that!? Cool.

 

2 cents, good gaming!

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

Rather than calling dungeons dead, they are merely neglected. While the Dungeon Frequenter was a nice addition, it is ultimately insufficient. I feel a few changes could be made to improve them, but ultimately they should serve as a longer variation of fractals, and in turn be more rewarding. Some of my suggestions:

 

* Add story mode dungeons into the main story. A slight rebalance would be needed, but no changes in dialogue (though it could be balanced as such). This would be highly beneficial not just to dungeons, but people going through the PC - as it stands, DE separates at chapter 4, then mysteriously reunites in chapter 8... No one really knows why, because they don't bother with dungeons!

** Put Ascalon Catacombs and Caudecus's Manor at the end of Chapter 4, bringing your Order mentor to be an additional ally. Pure text in the end step of chapter 4, changing things from going to help racial allies to assisting Destiny's Edge (Rytlock did call out for reinforcements, while CM is a party so Order representatives makes sense). Move the dialogue for picking a race to a new instance at the beginning of chapter 5 which is per Order (one instance just to pick your racial sympathy).

** Put Twilight Arbor at the end of Chapter 5, before going to the Claw Island arc. Also adding the Order mentor for this.

** Sorrow's Embrace and Citadel of Flame should be put at the end of Chapter 7, since the latter deals with the Pact a bit.

** Finally, put HotW and CoE just before Further into Orr - after destroying Zhaitan's risen production.

* After that, rebalance explorable mode of all dungeons to be level 80 (maybe make AC a level 60 dungeon as an introduction? Not sure here). With no downscaling, they all become proper level 80 content. Like now, they'd have daily-restricted rewards, but on top of that they could use new ones. They should all be made like Twilight Arbor's Aetherpath in that you cannot simply run past every single mob group out there, safely appearing before the next boss. It should be room clears, not room runs.

* To make them more desireable for older players, update the rewards. While one notion may be to add "reskinned weapon sets" like the Aetherized Nightmare weapons were, I would go a different route.

** Currently there are RNG masterwork and rare trinket/backpiece drops - they are, ultimately, useless to players. By the time they're 80, even new players tend to have exotics. So upgrade these drops to be rare and exotic drops instead.

** Then there are recipe drops that you can craft exotic trinkets - change these recipes to be for ascended trinkets, with 500 Jeweler added at long last. Having vendor-purchasable backpiece skins would be a good plus (aquabreather, glider, and outfits are all also viable options).

** Add in a new cross-dungeon currency, and add to the vendor the ascended gear purchases using that new currency as an alternative for fractal/wvw/pvp currencies.

** Then finally, add in a small series of guild hall decorations using objects in their respective dungeons (personally would love to see that tail of Zhaitan as the ultimate Arah dungeon decoration).

* After that, add in challenge modes for every path. These challenge modes would bring the dungeons on par to Fractal 99/100 CM, but obviously longer because dungeons are more mob based than fractals are. These CMs would give daily bonus rewards, with higher chances of straight up ascended drops.

* Lastly, and most importantly, we need periodic new dungeons tied to newer stories - not something like Molten Facility and Aetherblade Retreat, which were really just repeatable longer-than-core story missions, but *real* dungeons. No story mode to these dungeons either, just explorable. The notion of story mode and explorable mode should cease to exist - a nice concept, but it divided the main plot and ultimately no one cared about story mode except to unlock reward tracks or access to explorable mode.

 

Dungeons are not the same as fractals, and should not be neglected for them. And the same goes for raids.

 

Fractals serve as fast, quick 5-man content that can be done in easy, medium, hard, or nightmare difficulties.

Raids serve as 10-man content that is really only hard or nightmare difficulties.

Dungeons serve as good, longer 5-man content that can be done in medium or hard difficulties.

[Fancypants.9705]

Just because dungeons aren't as popular as they used to be, doesn't mean they are dead. I still do dungeons daily as well as many other people.... and yes I do raid as well , which I'm guessing thats all you care about.

[ugrakarma.9416]

The treatment given to dungeons is lazy, no game has this "dead content" thing: maps, npcs, bosses are there, why waste content, making it purposely non-playable? Firstly, we should have a "solo mode" for those interested in lore. Second, if they want it no longer have meaningful rewards, then make them soloable. killing a content and at the same time leaving it on the difficulty that requires group to complete is non-sense.

 

> @Fancypants.9705 said:

> Just because dungeons aren't as popular as they used to be, doesn't mean they are dead. I still do dungeons daily as well as many other people.... and yes I do raid as well , which I'm guessing thats all you care about.

 

if they take hours or days to form a group is dead.

[Morgan.5170]

I did nine different dungeons back to back a couple weeks ago, the only problem I had finding a group was for Arah P4 at 1:00 AM. They're not dead.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @ugrakarma.9416 said:

> The treatment given to dungeons is lazy, no game has this "dead content" thing: maps, npcs, bosses are there, why waste content, making it purposely non-playable? Firstly, we should have a "solo mode" for those interested in lore. Second, if they want it no longer have meaningful rewards, then make them soloable. killing a content and at the same time leaving it on the difficulty that requires group to complete is non-sense.

>

> > @Fancypants.9705 said:

> > Just because dungeons aren't as popular as they used to be, doesn't mean they are dead. I still do dungeons daily as well as many other people.... and yes I do raid as well , which I'm guessing thats all you care about.

>

> if they take hours or days to form a group is dead.

 

Good think it doesn't take hours let alone days to form groups.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @ugrakarma.9416 said:

> if they take hours or days to form a group is dead.

 

I formed a party for HotW underwater paths in under 5 minutes. Pretty sure it was under 3 minutes even.

 

If you're taking hours, then you're probably not using LFG right.

[iTheRandom.4178]

Well for me dungeons are dead because I like to do fast clears. If I post for an "exp p1" run most people with think that exp = explorable and want to sift through people that are not experienced as well as waiting for people that are experienced to join. All and all I don't feel like waiting that long for a run that don't give you that much gold ever since the reward nerf.

[Testudo.4620]

Did we need another one of these threads?

[Chadramar.8156]

> @ugrakarma.9416 said:

> The treatment given to dungeons is lazy, no game has this "dead content" thing:

 

Eh? "Traditional" treadmill MMOs with ever-increasing character and item levels have _overwhelming_ degrees of dead content: anything that isn't part of the latest expansion.

[PaxTheGreatOne.9472]

I do not agree dungeons are dead. I do however agree the amount of experienced players running them has declined due to the unneeded nerf and the backjlash it had in the community. I now over several dozen players who left and consequently didn't buy HoT and have been lost. These were good players. Sometimes I see some wander back in, ask if it is better now, and I nee to tell them fractals has taken over, raids were introduced and many leave again cause they are not looking for fractals or raids... Even though I try my best to convince 'm of the quality of other insatnced conetnt at this time.

 

The choice to nerf rewards was a very bad one, and the choice to boost rewards through the Dungeon Freequenter actually improved rewards (not considering Arah) to a point it was nearly the same as before. Arah's rewards were 3gold for 3 paths 1.5 gold for the last path. These will not be compensated, but when running COF, AC, SE, COE, CM, TA and so on you will get near comparable gaisn as before and more tokens. Tokens have allways been used to buy stuff with insignia's for more cash and ecto's. In the end the loss of cash from dungeos provided you runa multiple of 8 path is not much more then 5-10s a path...

The fact these rewards were fixed is not know by the majority of the older dungeon group and the rewards cannot be compared to the 10-20 gold from a t4 run...whcih takes considerably less time then a 8 dungeon tour. making the older remark from developers there should bnot be such influx of new gold trivial as the drops from fractal encryptions are the same...

 

If People would notice this we could go back dungeoneering. I still sometimes find parties using the old fastrun & stacking metasystems... General runtime has further declined due to Ascneded gear, and HoT elite specs doing a bit more dmg then old vanilla builds.

 

The fact does remain certain paths are unwelcome to condi and condi/power hybrids due to the fact objects still use the old systems regarding dmg (only power dmg will dmg objects)

 

I run AC (story, P1,2,3) COF (1,2) SE (1,2) TA (UP/FW), COE (1,2,3) and CM (1,2,3) still on a fairly regualr basis, though no longer each day as 4 yrs ago.

 

Rewards remain good. New people can be a problem due to them not knowing encounters or the general route through the dungeon (things COE) but I normally keep them in lvl 80 parties provided I have 3 experienced (say 8K+ AP or more) players in party, They can learn the " path , the way , the boosses and the general routine" and we have more players if they know the system. I do not kick unless ppl are not listening of just slacking. (had some AFK-ers already. I do not tolerate this. But I do allow doing wet noodle DPS, NP, as long as you come, join, and participate to the best of your abilities. )

[Odokuro.5049]

I used to have a lot of fun in dungeons, still do, but not as much, nor do I do them as much as I did way back when. The problem is, since fractals and raids have come out, dungeons have well, have lost there appeal, and are now only done for needed things for legendaries, or weapon/armor skins, ect. What I wish they would do for dungeons to bring them back up in popularity is make different levels of difficulty, such as normal/veteran/elite/champion/legendary or something like that, where as you go up in difficulty you would get, better rewards, but mobs would become insanely strong, and there would be added mechanics and attacks done by the boss.

[Daniel.5428]

There are not many people still willing to do dungeons on LFG. I suggest to improve the reward a little. Not like it used to be, but more than it is now.

[Ana.2415]

If dungeons are so dead for some people I think they should just ignore them, move on, and focus on other things instead of trying to make Anet to remove CONTENT. I'm talking in general not only about the OP, because I've even seen people asking for deleting them lol.

 

I enjoy playing dungeons, it still gives a lot of loot and a decent amount of gold (it could be better). The problem is that it's hard to find people to join the lfg, or there r no lfg's at all, so it makes it harder for people who wanna still play dungs and make them to stop doing it anymore. Also there are better ways to make money now.

 

It's so sad because I used to meet a lot of nice a funny people doing dungs that I can't find doing raids or fractals (idk why people usually don't talk there).

[SaraGreen.2345]

Dungeons are super fun the only reason the masses stopped running them is fractals paid more gold too run.

Dungeons are some of my favorite content to run.

[JVJD.4912]

Its dead because devs abandoned it and moved it focus elsewhere. Was very suprized to glance over the dungeons the other day to find no groups for cof and Ac the esy pezy dungeons

Only ppl of early days would know what i am talking about lol

[Walhalla.5473]

Ah yes dungeons. Good ol' times with them. Even though dungeons were quite unfinished, bugged, not tested and the difficulty was all over the place. ( Some story mode bosses being much harder than the explorable mode bosses ).

 

Would have been nice if Anet went through the whole dungeon revamp, or as I would say, finishing them instead of stopping after AC. Looking back at AC before the revamp it was clear that this dungeon wasn't finished. At least not the bossfights. Howling King and Collosus Rumblus were 90% the same and the Ghost Eater was like doing nothing while players were using the traps... I mean the mortars. Seriously that fight was screaming " I'm not ready for release". And looking at other dungeons like CM or CoE you can see that the devs had not enough time to build and test them. Otherwise the fights would have been nice, long enough for mechanics to matter and they would have fulfilled the promise that dungeons were really challenging content. ( Now fulfilled with T4 Fractals/CM and Raids )

 

Working again at Dungeons would be nice to see but since we have challenging 5-man content its quite unlikely that Anet will go back to work at new dungeons.

[Xanadu.9085]

Ran some dungeons with guildies recently and actually noticed I got far more loot and gold from them then I do from 99 and 100 CM’s. We do tend to kill most of the mobs along the way and with powercreep they can be killed in seconds. Dungeons also offer more variety – much rather do several dungeons paths daily than the dreary fractal CM’s.

[doddbox.8153]

Yeah, they're "nerfed", keep telling yourself that so I can keep making a stellar profit from them.

[Cyninja.2954]

Going to quote myself from the other thread because we need special snowflakes making useless threads about the same topics over and over without understanding the difference in basic developement:

 

> @Cyninja.2954 said:

> Dungeons, fractals and raids are all similar instanced content. The alternative would have been to not provide players with any venue of disscussion for dungeon related issues.

>

> There is a big difference between supporting old content, completely abandoning it and actively developing for it. Dungeons are in the supported old content but not getting developed for at the moment.

 

Dungeons are part of the game even if there is no active developement for them, hence they are part of the instanced content subforum.

[TheRandomGuy.7246]

> @Cyninja.2954 said:

> Dungeons are in the supported old content but not getting developed for at the moment.

 

Last proper maintenance patch happened way before HoT.

 

[Cyninja.2954]

> @TheRandomGuy.7246 said:

> > @Cyninja.2954 said:

> > Dungeons are in the supported old content but not getting developed for at the moment.

>

> Last proper maintenance patch happened way before HoT.

>

 

Dungeons are still available right? If instance servers have issues (to which dungeons and other instanced content count) there are fixes right? If you have an issue with dungeons and contact customer support, they will likely help you out right?

 

Which part of not active developement but still supported was missunderstandable?