Twitch tells us GW2 is dead?

[eagles.6380]

GW2 currently has 500 viewers on twitch, seldom see's over this number. BDO, Elderscrolls online and even old school runescape have 10x the number of views that GW2 gets. Lets not talk about WOW because that obliterate's every other MMO in terms of viewership.

 

Is it because it's a dead game? any other reasons.. please share

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Um...fans of GW2 would rather actually play the game, rather than watch others? /shrug

I don't find the game especially 'dead'.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

Don't listen to them. They are false prophets.

[lokh.2695]

Twitch doesn't decide wether a game is dead or not. Twitch caters to a certain audience or demographic if you want.

As an example, I'm sure GW2 has less views than reruns of Matlock or Murder, She wrote in retirement homes. Therfor I assume that GW2 is a dead game. I never hear them talk about GW2 either so there isn't even a community for that game.

A MMO is alive as long as there are enough ppl playing to keep the ball rolling, to keep maps doable, to keep the economy running, stuff like that. GW2 is still healthy in most of these aspects.

[eagles.6380]

@"lokh.2695" Ok, you're example of both games have 0 viewers. And if we're talking about demographics doesnt the example of all the other MMO's and who is watching them fit in the same demographic as gw2? Even when gw2 had some viewers on twitch i was always checking out other mmo's.

 

Ask pvp and wvw if they feel like that have enough people to keep the ball rolling, because i remember being placed in plat 3 and playing with silver players last season. in terms of pve go and try to complete the outpost events in verdant brink.

[Lambent.6375]

It's just not a popular game for twitch viewers.

[lokh.2695]

Well, I was in [WvW yesterady](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/52041/my-day-in-wvw-is-it-just-me-or-is-it-always-like-that "WvW yesterady") and it was fun ;) But I know what you mean. I'm not saying the game is the best it can be. PvP and WvW have great potential but always feels like an afterthought. ANet is mostly concerned about their PvE side of the game. But that's not new and I guess the players who go WVW/PvP or bust, have left by now. The ones that are still here are probably here to stay for a few more months.

Sure, the demographic of twitch viewers is more likely to care about a MM than the demographic of retired persons. I'll give you that but theories need to be tested with extremes some times. ;) Still I'd agree that GW2 is "dead" on twitch compared to other games of the genre. But being "dead on twitch" doesn't mean much if your questions are "are ppl still playing the game?" or "is it worth getting into it 6 years after release?". You know what's also probably dead on twitch, connect four. Does that mean no one is playing it?

[Malediktus.9250]

Nothing in GW2 is worth streaming

[kharmin.7683]

When you can no longer log on, then you'll know GW2 is dead.

[Zaraki.5784]

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> Um...fans of GW2 would rather actually play the game, rather than watch others? /shrug

> I don't find the game especially 'dead'.

 

I ultraquote, I'm here to play gw2, not to watch others playing it, moreover I prefer YT over twitch, I don't get why why this "twitch fashion" came up nowadays...

[lokh.2695]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> Nothing in GW2 is worth streaming

 

And that^^

The few streams that are popular are so because of the person streaming not so much the game they're playing. PvP streamers aside, but as I mentioned I guess the more hardcore PvP ers of the scene have left the game and moved on to something that appeals more to them by now.

[Kal Spiro.9745]

> @"eagles.6380" said:

> @"lokh.2695" Ok, you're example of both **games **have 0 viewers.

 

I love this response, since it illustrates the consideration of demographics so much better than the argument in the first place. Matlock and Murder, She Wrote aren't games. They're old TV shows that the elderly stereotypically watch. They won't be on Twitch.

[eagles.6380]

I dont understand why there are some people posting saying they dont understand why twitch has got to do with anything. Twitch is a powerful tool to keep a game rolling, sustain a community, bring more players and generally advertise the game.

 

I get that some people dont watch Twitch, but its like saying, i don't watch this therefore all the millions of other people who watch something on twitch are idiots and should be playing their respective games rather than watching them. Kappa

 

In terms of streamers, im not going to name names but God's of PvP titled players got their partnerships removed, and random twitch streamers who play the game once a month get partnership? it's mind boggling

[lokh.2695]

> @"Kal Spiro.9745" said:

> > @"eagles.6380" said:

> > @"lokh.2695" Ok, you're example of both **games **have 0 viewers.

>

> I love this response, since it illustrates the consideration of demographics so much better than the argument in the first place. Matlock and Murder, She Wrote aren't games. They're old TV shows that the elderly stereotypically watch. They won't be on Twitch.

 

Ona could argue that WATCHING a stream and WATCHING an episode of Matlock can be compared though. It's about views a demographic is generating not about playing a game.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

Twitch viewers is a poor proxy for assessing vibrancy of a game. GW2 has never had that many Twitchlings, because it's like watching paint sprayed on drywall.

 

If you want to assess the number of active or interested players in a game, when the studio is keeping those numbers secret, you need more than one proxy.

 

Reddit subscribers is another proxy and there it shows healthy numbers.

* [r/wow](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/) has 762k subscribers

* [r/guildwars2](https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/) has 185k.

 

Another proxy comes from comparing Year-over-Year and expansion-month-over-expansion-month financial reports. There's already two threads about that for GW2 in these very forums, so all we need to know for this thread is that the numbers for PoF-release time and HoT-release time are comparable, indicating an active game.

 

And the most important proxies are from playing the game. How active are events? How easy is it to find groups? For PvE, it's looking good. For PvP, there are indications of low activity, lack of competition. For WvW, there's no question match participation seems to be at record lows, but that's to be expected for a game mode that's virtually unchanged in six years. We'll have a better idea of its health if/when ANet rolls out the planned restructuring.

 

tl;dr Twitch viewership isn't a good tool for figuring out whether a game is active or not.

[eagles.6380]

@"Kal Spiro.9745" so you're saying gw2 is full of elderly gamer's who dont know how to get on Twitch? like i dont get it, i was referring to different MMO's and the viewership in my original post. I'd put people that play MMO's in the same demographic and in that aspect gw2 is failing in terms of viewership.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"eagles.6380" said:

> GW2 currently has 500 viewers on twitch

 

Are you talking about the weekly dev talks? They are too lengthy and contain only bits and pieces of interesting information, so I guess people get bored easily and stop watching.

 

What does this have to do with the actual game and number of active players?

[eagles.6380]

@"Ashantara.8731" , no thats total viewership, with every streamer playing the game. Please read above and you will get an answer to the question.

 

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" so 2 out of 3 game modes are on the verge of collapse and the game has a healthy player base? Also i dont know how expansion sales tell you how many active players there are in the game.. Anet hasnt realeased any numbers of active players in any game mode, im sure they have the numbers they just dont want to tell us.

 

If i buy the game and complete all the PoF content i dont have a reason to keep playing it, i play it until july and i leave the game, expansion sales doesn't tell any1 a lot.

 

[Goettel.4389]

I prefer gaming to watching others game.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"eagles.6380" said:

> @"Ashantara.8731" , no thats total viewership, with every streamer playing the game.

 

Personally, I find watching streamers playing games extremely boring (I rather spend my time playing the game myself), unless is it a competitive game (like CS:GO) and the streamer is a pro gamer.

[Ayakaru.6583]

Allthis proves is that runescape and other games have 10 times more people not playing the game, but watching a few people play it

[Rauderi.8706]

MMOs in general make for terrible streaming content. Maybe if the streamer has an interesting personality (most don't), but then people tune in for the person, not the game.

 

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" so 2 out of 3 game modes are on the verge of collapse and the game has a healthy player base?

On the verge of collapse? No. Poor levels in PvP? It appears so. The levels in WvW are decent, they are just low compared to peak play 5 years ago. That doesn't mean they are on the verge of collapse.

 

Regardless, none of that matters for PvE, which shows very healthy activity levels in game. And to the point of the thread, that doesn't tell us whether Twitch is a useful proxy for measuring levels of player activity in the game.

 

> Also i dont know how expansion sales tell you how many active players there are in the game..

They don't. They tell us how many people are willing to pay money for the game, which is a better proxy for measuring interest than Twitch viewership.

 

But more importantly, the financial figures include gem shop sales, which amount to 50% of income for GW2. And gem shop sales absolutely are a decent proxy for measuring activity, because inactive players don't plunk down cash for gems.

 

> Anet hasnt realeased any numbers of active players in any game mode, im sure they have the numbers they just dont want to tell us.

Hardly any MMO releases numbers of active players (let alone what they define as an active player). None of them want to tell us, because we equate a drop in numbers with issues with the game, when the reality is that attrition for games is always a major factor.

 

 

>

> If i buy the game and complete all the PoF content i dont have a reason to keep playing it, i play it until july and i leave the game, expansion sales doesn't tell any1 a lot.

If anything, that tells us that Twitch numbers wouldn't even include you, since your interest stopped after you completed "all the PoF content". Yet you were active for some time after buying.

 

And again, financial reports include gem shop sales, not just expansion sales.

 

 

 

[eagles.6380]

@"Rauderi.8706"

Expect some of the biggest streamers play WoW, and have over 200million viewers total viewers in their channel. and gw2 has 10 times less viewers then 5+ other mmo's on the market

[kharmin.7683]

> @"eagles.6380" said:

> @"Kal Spiro.9745" so you're saying gw2 is full of elderly gamer's who dont know how to get on Twitch?

Hey! That's _exactly _me.