Why are condi mes so annoying to fight?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > > Condi Mesmers are annoying to fight because someone thought that a class being able to load you with 20+ stacks of torment (which punishes you for moving) and 20+ stacks of confusion (which punishes you for acting) on burst and **guarantee** the burst if you do not have a stunbreak at any point in time _also_ needed to be able to break stuns on dodges and continue casting skills they may have started while dodging, with a dodge mechanic that counts as an invulnerable so there is no way to stop them from dodging.

> > > >

> > > > Someone on the balance team, with a lot of development clout, really likes mesmer.

> > >

> > > I wasn't aware that condi mesmer could produce 20+ stacks of torment "on burst" without taking Infinite Horizon, which they couldn't take if they are instead using Elusive Mind to break stun on dodge.

> > >

> > > 10+ clones, too! Those darn mesmers!

> >

> > Your attempt to dismiss the strength of being able to put the two conditions that, when put together punish players for taking any action as a mere exaggeration falls flat, especially if it's true that you don't need Elusive Mind slotted to use mirage cloak when stunned. Objectively those two facets are immensely strong.

> >

> >

> >

>

> Whatever. Continue with your ridiculous hyperbole and falsehoods. And no, you can't break stun with dodge without elusive mind. Learn to read.

 

I didn't say break stun, I said use mirage cloak. You can still activate mirage cloak even while cced, correct?

[Rufo.3716]

It's called condi cleanse. If you aren't running any it's your own fault, well unless you are a reaver, then it can't be helped. I'd still fight any type of mesmer over a stupid BS thief any day.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > > > Condi Mesmers are annoying to fight because someone thought that a class being able to load you with 20+ stacks of torment (which punishes you for moving) and 20+ stacks of confusion (which punishes you for acting) on burst and **guarantee** the burst if you do not have a stunbreak at any point in time _also_ needed to be able to break stuns on dodges and continue casting skills they may have started while dodging, with a dodge mechanic that counts as an invulnerable so there is no way to stop them from dodging.

> > > > >

> > > > > Someone on the balance team, with a lot of development clout, really likes mesmer.

> > > >

> > > > I wasn't aware that condi mesmer could produce 20+ stacks of torment "on burst" without taking Infinite Horizon, which they couldn't take if they are instead using Elusive Mind to break stun on dodge.

> > > >

> > > > 10+ clones, too! Those darn mesmers!

> > >

> > > Your attempt to dismiss the strength of being able to put the two conditions that, when put together punish players for taking any action as a mere exaggeration falls flat, especially if it's true that you don't need Elusive Mind slotted to use mirage cloak when stunned. Objectively those two facets are immensely strong.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Whatever. Continue with your ridiculous hyperbole and falsehoods. And no, you can't break stun with dodge without elusive mind. Learn to read.

>

> I didn't say break stun, I said use mirage cloak. You can still activate mirage cloak even while cced, correct?

 

Oh. Well, then...I guess I need to learn to read. ;)

 

Anyway, the usual nonsense consumes this thread. Talk of Mirage spawning 10+ clones when only 3 at a time are possible. Mirage having the ability to use two mutually exclusive grandmaster traits at once. That's all I was commenting on. I don't PvP much, so I'm really not qualified to comment on the impact of torment/confusion in that game mode. Sorry to have rolled you in with the OP.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> Anyway, the usual nonsense consumes this thread. Talk of Mirage spawning 10+ clones when only 3 at a time are possible. Mirage having the ability to use two mutually exclusive grandmaster traits at once. That's all I was commenting on. I don't PvP much, so I'm really not qualified to comment on the impact of torment/confusion in that game mode. Sorry to have rolled you in with the OP.

 

There's a lot of hyperbole being thrown around, indeed, but the root of it is valid. I play mesmer, but I do not play Mirage. I don't want the class as a whole nerfed into the ground, but they shouldn't stay as they currently are. They need to, by class design, be forced to give up a portion of their potential condi damage to be annoying to catch, or give up their ability to ignore bursts in order to do more damage. Right now they're walking a gray line where they have both of those positive aspects and neither of the drawbacks that would balance them.

 

There's always going to be people crying about basic things like clones, but occasionally they have a point. We just had a chronomancer fiasco where the phantasm rework caused players to generate excessive amounts of illusions until they nerfed phantasma and made it unappealing to the meta, so people whining about "clones" as a catch all for phantasms and clones (illusions) is not entirely unfounded. Disprove what is obviously crying and address what is not.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

> @"Jay.3409" said:

> condi, 10+ clones, fast cd, mirage cloak.... utility....

>

> can any other class beat how much of annoyance it is to fight a condi mes?

 

 

I think you confused Chronomancer and Mirage. There are no condi builds without condi burst since condi cleanses have gone completely insane. Fast cd? What do you mean fast cd? Alacrity is still a Chronomancer thing. Mirage Cloak is the elite spec gimmick, learn to play against it it's not that hard, just go read any of the posts by Daishi about the matter. Utility meaning portal, and just portal. To answer your last question, Spellbreaker, easily.

[ugrakarma.9416]

its fun Mesmers crying when u picking a AoE spam to counter them, like condi scourge or even a minion master.

Counter to Mes = just condi spam them back, preferably Aoes, that's how the Aoe wars begin in Gw2.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

Confusion need to have an icd of 2-3 seconds so that mutlipule skills dont tick it twice or more in less then a second.

[flog.3485]

Condi mes are annoying to fight because clone output is too high I would say.

 

Frankly, there is no need for sword ambush to summon a clone if all phantasms are turned into clones no matter what and if you can already summon a clone with sword 3.

 

Even in terms of traits, it doesn’t make much sense because they always seem to oppose condition efficiency and clone output ( taking a look at dueling grandmaster, illusion master and mirage adept traits).

 

It would be better imo to reach a balance paradigm where the highest condition builds is reached with a lesser amount of clone output (for less visual clutter and a more visible window of opportunity to go ham on mesmer once they have done their rotation to produce clones). And the first step to reach that paradigm is to remove the clones on sword ambush because a skill, that is evasive, while being a gap closer that can inflict daze on target, is already quite strong.

[Faux Play.6104]

Lots of instant casts, ability to puke ai while forcing you to retarget them inside the clutter, ability to put out serious pressure while mitigating damage. Short cool downs and ability to quickly reset a fight they are losing.