Deaths Judgment

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

Picked up my DE again last night and made a slight build modification and tried to rely less on rifle and while I didn't hit anyone for 24k that I saw (I will review my stream today), it does hit like a frigging 1500 unit truck. DJ does have a set up that makes it obv that its coming and even with quickness they still have time to dodge/evade, however if you can nail it, its golden.

 

I would like to see the rifle pierce (Even if its just the AA's)

[MUDse.7623]

after i tried out DE first time today , i had to check if there is a thread about it..cause i did hit on berserk light armor up to over 39k.

then i tested in guild arena without stacks against a guildmate in full trailblaizer and still about 22k.

i yet am a bit unsure what to do apart from DJ so i just mark, stay in stealth and when all stacks are full a DJ. tho its extremly easy to predict and avoid ALOT of people dont.

i bet quite some people raged today on our enemy servers getting oneshot no matter the build.

i will have to try still switchting target right before shot so that the wrong one dogges ( hope that skill retargeting works on it) .

i didnt screen the 39k one but here a sample against a reaper: 

 

[Ubi.4136]

At this point we just need to accept that Anet is ok with deadeyes hitting for 20-40k. Anet also seems ok with using ambient mobs/walls to generate malice and then use that bonus damage on other non-marked targets/players. This is pretty broken, much like the gazelle was (which got nerfed into oblivion today), yet no adjustment to either the non-marked damage or the DJ damage in general.

[primatos.5413]

Some companies just suck

[Jeknar.6184]

> @Ubi.4136 said:

> The bonus damage from malice is ONLY supposed to be against the target that is marked. BUT, I have heard players saying that they can stack malice on ambient mobs, not change their mark, and still get the bonus damage against the first player that happens to run by.

 

The 15%/21%(Maleficient Seven) bonus from Malice are only against the Marked target. The 15% per malice bonus from Death's Judgement is not.

 

But I'm neutral in this discussion as I don't see Deadeye as a threat when Scourges and Spellbreakers are running rampant all over the place. And I've been one shot by some of them here and there, including one who hit me for 20k while I had Protection and 15% damage reduction from Photon Forge with 2,6k armor.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

> @Ubi.4136 said:

> At this point we just need to accept that Anet is ok with deadeyes hitting for 20-40k. Anet also seems ok with using ambient mobs/walls to generate malice and then use that bonus damage on other non-marked targets/players. This is pretty broken, much like the gazelle was (which got nerfed into oblivion today), yet no adjustment to either the non-marked damage or the DJ damage in general.

 

You expect too much in a little amount of time. There are rarely any Emergency Balancings, so you will have to wait for the next balance patch. Patience is a virtue mate. Relax and have some bacon. DJ will get its own in due time.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @xDudisx.5914 said:

> Well, your picture also says you hit the enemy for 4.9k using rush. Let me guess, you are running almost full zerker/marauder warrior? You could probably almost one shot a deadeye running glass canon.

 

But, A thief doesnt need to be a glass cannon does he? Deaths Judgement gives 15% increased damage per a malice stack that means it can be either 75% increased damage or 105% Increased damage. Now add that to the 15% or 21% increased damage from the Malice itself. So you could be looking at 126% Increased damage from ONE trait, One passive stacking buff and 1 ability. There isnt a need to go full zerk.

 

 

[SWI.4127]

> @xDudisx.5914 said:

> > @SWI.4127 said:

> > I remember reading this thread last week and didn't think much of it. But tonight I got crit for 24k dmg in 1 shot and I wasn't even marked. Is this a bug that's starting to get abused?

> >

> > 

> >

>

> Well, your picture also says you hit the enemy for 4.9k using rush. Let me guess, you are running almost full zerker/marauder warrior? You could probably almost one shot a deadeye running glass canon.

 

I accept the drawbacks that come with my greedy build. However it's also on the naturally tankiest profession in the game. It could easily one-shot light armor professions who did actually invest in some toughness. I got no problem with big hits from glass cannon builds in this game, but they need to be telegraphed at least somewhat. A deadeye one-shotting you with a split-second tell when the class can teleport and stealth constantly is a bit much. Keep in mind they can do this without ever marking you (I wasn't marked at any time when I got hit for that one in the combat log).

 

[Arcaedus.7290]

> @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> > @xDudisx.5914 said:

> > Well, your picture also says you hit the enemy for 4.9k using rush. Let me guess, you are running almost full zerker/marauder warrior? You could probably almost one shot a deadeye running glass canon.

>

> But, A thief doesnt need to be a glass cannon does he? Deaths Judgement gives 15% increased damage per a malice stack that means it can be either 75% increased damage or 105% Increased damage. Now add that to the 15% or 21% increased damage from the Malice itself. So you could be looking at 126% Increased damage from ONE trait, One passive stacking buff and 1 ability. There isnt a need to go full zerk.

>

>

 

Thief guildie of mine runs near full marauder, has about 18k hp. He's still hitting 20k+ DJs at full to high malice. Mesmer friend of mine with 3.2 to 3.3k armor ate a 21k DJ crit the other day.

 

The thing about DJ is that there is no way to counter-build DJ with stats, it's going to hit hard and WILL 1 hit KO you unless you're a frontline warrior or necro in wvw. You also don't require a cheesy build to hit hard with it, merely a few easy-to-pick-up damage modifiers and proper setup time with malice.

 

The real balance question that the devs have to ask themselves is: Does the set-up time/malice mechanic justify a 1 hit KO in a pvp-setting?

 

Yes it's dodgeable, yes it's reflectable and yes it can be reacted to off of reflex alone (even if DE has quickness on) but so are plenty of other hard-hitting skills that players consistently are capable of landing. Reason that many of these aren't as big of a problem is because they don't 1 hit KO.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @Arcaedus.7290 said:

> > @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> > > @xDudisx.5914 said:

> > > Well, your picture also says you hit the enemy for 4.9k using rush. Let me guess, you are running almost full zerker/marauder warrior? You could probably almost one shot a deadeye running glass canon.

> >

> > But, A thief doesnt need to be a glass cannon does he? Deaths Judgement gives 15% increased damage per a malice stack that means it can be either 75% increased damage or 105% Increased damage. Now add that to the 15% or 21% increased damage from the Malice itself. So you could be looking at 126% Increased damage from ONE trait, One passive stacking buff and 1 ability. There isnt a need to go full zerk.

> >

> >

>

> Thief guildie of mine runs near full marauder, has about 18k hp. He's still hitting 20k+ DJs at full to high malice. Mesmer friend of mine with 3.2 to 3.3k armor ate a 21k DJ crit the other day.

>

> The thing about DJ is that there is no way to counter-build DJ with stats, it's going to hit hard and WILL 1 hit KO you unless you're a frontline warrior or necro in wvw. You also don't require a cheesy build to hit hard with it, merely a few easy-to-pick-up damage modifiers and proper setup time with malice.

>

> The real balance question that the devs have to ask themselves is: Does the set-up time/malice mechanic justify a 1 hit KO in a pvp-setting?

>

> Yes it's dodgeable, yes it's reflectable and yes it can be reacted to off of reflex alone (even if DE has quickness on) but so are plenty of other hard-hitting skills that players consistently are capable of landing. Reason that many of these aren't as big of a problem is because they don't 1 hit KO.

 

Exactly, It hits hard. Very hard and you dont need to be zerk for it. I think it without a doubt needs some of the damage modifiers reduced. Heavily. yeah it can be dodged. If you know its coming. If you dont. You die. The issue with them stacking malice on critters NEEDS to be fixed. A simple fix - Make the Mark deal 1 damage. That would kill critters and stop them stacking Malice on them.

 

I'd even say increase the Ini cost, You can easily get 2 shots off with it only costing 6 ini, so you can dodge the first, will you be able to dodge the second. The reflect "counter" doesnt really count if only select few classes have reflection, what about the others? what do they do? The simple fact ids: High reward for so little effort. Stand somewhere, mark a critter and wait for someone to go past.

[Strider Pj.2193]

Not sure the damage requirement would be good with the mark, and only because it would put the marked object in combat. So, if you mark a player, that player would know when he has gotten away far enough to break combat.

 

But finding a way to make malice only impact the marked toon would help some.

 

Initiative cost would help a little, but roll for initiative would keep you into three shots also.

 

 

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> Not sure the damage requirement would be good with the mark, and only because it would put the marked object in combat. So, if you mark a player, that player would know when he has gotten away far enough to break combat.

>

> But finding a way to make malice only impact the marked toon would help some.

>

> Initiative cost would help a little, but roll for initiative would keep you into three shots also.

>

>

 

Well, they could make it so the Malice stacks stay for say 5-10seconds. They wouldnt gain any from critters as they would instantly die. I think a total of like 50% increased damage would be fine, 126% increased damage is a tad on the broken side. Maybe make it cost 10 ini? Given that it hits BIG. It should NOT be able to be cast several times in a few seconds. Maybe make it so that having revealed stops you from being able to go into the kneeled mode? So you use it once, then you have the revealed meaning you have to use your elite to be able to go into stealth and use it again?

[kash.9213]

> @SWI.4127 said:

>but they need to be telegraphed at least somewhat. A deadeye one-shotting you with a split-second tell when the class can teleport and stealth constantly is a bit much.

>

It's a huge slow laser and even a blind man can hear it from a mile away and dodge. You're afk if you're getting tagged with DJ enough for it to be a problem for you.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

It’s sad really, players are leaving out some Key things about DJ, it’s only Accessible while kneeling( Severely limited Mobility), has multiple Audio/Visual Tells, has a decent cast time, has High Initiative cost(either 1/3- 1/2 of the overall Initiative pool).

 

So on top of the setup (which the marking walls and critters should be rectified) it already has a lot of drawbacks to using.

 

I find Deadeyes using the Rifle to be free fodder whenever I am Roaming or Zerging.

 

So it not some magical free damage without any drawbacks as being purported.

 

I could see the cast time being increase to 1 sec, to level it out even more.

[MUDse.7623]

 

> @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

> It’s sad really, players are leaving out some Key things about DJ, it’s only Accessible while kneeling( Severely limited Mobility), has multiple Audio/Visual Tells, has a decent cast time, has High Initiative cost(either 1/3- 1/2 of the overall Initiative pool).

>

> So on top of the setup (which the marking walls and critters should be rectified) it already has a lot of drawbacks to using.

>

> I find Deadeyes using the Rifle to be free fodder whenever I am Roaming or Zerging.

>

> So it not some magical free damage without any drawbacks as being purported.

>

> I could see the cast time being increase to 1 sec, to level it out even more.

 

thats exactly what i have experienced, i killed lots of deadeyes. but playing it today i got to say most people so far are stupid enough to remain in area and not dogge / reflect what ever. and for the few that did dogge you can target the skill at someone or something else and right before the hit goes off swap to them(you need retargeting optiion tho), none has dogged so far if i did that.

im curios how long i will be able to play like that as people will learn how to avoid the shot, but then again ill return to my op daredevil.

[SWI.4127]

> @kash.9213 said:

> > @SWI.4127 said:

> >but they need to be telegraphed at least somewhat. A deadeye one-shotting you with a split-second tell when the class can teleport and stealth constantly is a bit much.

> >

> It's a huge slow laser and even a blind man can hear it from a mile away and dodge. You're afk if you're getting tagged with DJ enough for it to be a problem for you.

 

I'm not getting tagged with it constantly. Yes it's easy to see if you are dueling a thief. If you are in the middle of a big group fight though, and you aren't marked, you could easily get picked off.

 

> @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

> It’s sad really, players are leaving out some Key things about DJ, it’s only Accessible while kneeling( Severely limited Mobility), has multiple Audio/Visual Tells, has a decent cast time, has High Initiative cost(either 1/3- 1/2 of the overall Initiative pool).

>

> So on top of the setup (which the marking walls and critters should be rectified) it already has a lot of drawbacks to using.

>

> I find Deadeyes using the Rifle to be free fodder whenever I am Roaming or Zerging.

>

> So it not some magical free damage without any drawbacks as being purported.

>

> I could see the cast time being increase to 1 sec, to level it out even more.

 

People seem to be misunderstanding or think I'm claiming Deadeye is OP or the skill is OP. I'm just saying there is no way that is working as intended and it makes no sense that marking a mosquito or a **WALL** for God's sake should give you enough damage to one-shot a completely unrelated enemy. It's stupid. It goes completely against any idea of what a sniper actually does. Overall Deadeye is a weak spec, I agree. Doesn't mean we should ignore obviously broken mechanics though. The spec shouldn't be a broken one-trick (one-shot?) pony.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

> @SWI.4127 said:

> > @kash.9213 said:

> > > @SWI.4127 said:

> > >but they need to be telegraphed at least somewhat. A deadeye one-shotting you with a split-second tell when the class can teleport and stealth constantly is a bit much.

> > >

> > It's a huge slow laser and even a blind man can hear it from a mile away and dodge. You're afk if you're getting tagged with DJ enough for it to be a problem for you.

>

> I'm not getting tagged with it constantly. Yes it's easy to see if you are dueling a thief. If you are in the middle of a big group fight though, and you aren't marked, you could easily get picked off.

>

> > @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

> > It’s sad really, players are leaving out some Key things about DJ, it’s only Accessible while kneeling( Severely limited Mobility), has multiple Audio/Visual Tells, has a decent cast time, has High Initiative cost(either 1/3- 1/2 of the overall Initiative pool).

> >

> > So on top of the setup (which the marking walls and critters should be rectified) it already has a lot of drawbacks to using.

> >

> > I find Deadeyes using the Rifle to be free fodder whenever I am Roaming or Zerging.

> >

> > So it not some magical free damage without any drawbacks as being purported.

> >

> > I could see the cast time being increase to 1 sec, to level it out even more.

>

> People seem to be misunderstanding or think I'm claiming Deadeye is OP or the skill is OP. I'm just saying there is no way that is working as intended and it makes no sense that marking a mosquito or a **WALL** for God's sake should give you enough damage to one-shot a completely unrelated enemy. It's stupid. It goes completely against any idea of what a sniper actually does. Overall Deadeye is a weak spec, I agree. Doesn't mean we should ignore obviously broken mechanics though. The spec shouldn't be a broken one-trick (one-shot?) pony.

 

Re-read what I posted see where I stated the walls and ambient thing needs to be fixed? Good, No reason to get upset when I agreed with you on that.

 

[SWI.4127]

> @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

> Re-read what I posted see where I stated the walls and ambient thing needs to be fixed? Good, No reason to get upset when I agreed with you on that.

>

Sorry I quoted you because you were listing the drawbacks of DJ. I know it's not an easy "press button get kill" situation. That comment about the walls/ambient creature thing was more of a general comment to people saying stuff like "omg if u cant dodge it u just suck" or whatever. Sorry for the lack of clarification. Also I'm not upset, I just bold stuff like that on forums for emphasis sometimes. To show how ridiculous it is to target an intimate object supposedly to focus on its vital organs or whatever then turn around and 180 headshot no-scope a player lmao. And again I know you agree with that part...just saying. I find it absurd, so I wanted to highlight that as my main point.

 

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

> @SWI.4127 said:

> > @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

> > Re-read what I posted see where I stated the walls and ambient thing needs to be fixed? Good, No reason to get upset when I agreed with you on that.

> >

> Sorry I quoted you because you were listing the drawbacks of DJ. I know it's not an easy "press button get kill" situation. That comment about the walls/ambient creature thing was more of a general comment to people saying stuff like "omg if u cant dodge it u just suck" or whatever. Sorry for the lack of clarification. Also I'm not upset, I just bold stuff like that on forums for emphasis sometimes. To show how ridiculous it is to target an intimate object supposedly to focus on its vital organs or whatever then turn around and 180 headshot no-scope a player lmao. And again I know you agree with that part...just saying. I find it absurd, so I wanted to highlight that as my main point.

>

 

Ah no worries, yeah I find it ridiculous that the Damage Bonuses are applied to other entities besides the Marked Target, it should only apply to the Marked Target, but based on the wording of the Tooltip idk if it was intentional for a PvE environment, Outnumbered/multi enemy fights in Pvp/WvW or what but hopefully they change it over, and they could up the cast to 1 sec as well which would cull a lot of the complaints, then they have to fix the bugged distance since it doesn’t have the 15% Range Buffer that all skills are supposed to have as per Dev comments.

 

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @Arcaedus.7290 said:

> One-hit KOs are bad for competitive videogames, period. If you look at DJ in a vacuum, it seems like an okay skill but a good Deadeye can make it work and can make it hurt. I had a series of duels just the other day against a deadeye. He spammed auto to build malice. Used stealth and standing rifle 4 to keep his distance. Once malice was full, he popped quickness and used DJ twice in a row. I (barely) dodged the first, hit by the second, 10k damage (3.3k armor and had protection boon on). Making deadeye otherwise complete trash does not justify having a skill that can 1-shot people. It doesn't matter if there is build up or not, this skill hits too hard.

 

Not really. a 1HKO is fine if it carries a substantial risk of performing. Full glass thief D/D backstab thief? Full berserker core mesmer power shatter mind wrack? Gravedigger full bererker power reaper? None of these builds are unfair to play against and fill a small niche for being able to make an uptrade for the most part.

 

In this case, like many others in this game, there are layers of protection which offset that risk.

It's the sole reason the long-ranged "stealth sniper" concept is not good for the game in general. It explicitly follows a low-risk : high reward design in a lot of cases.

 

Just too bad ANet can't recognize these kinds of things are really bad for the game.

[Turk.5460]

> @kash.9213 said:

> > @SWI.4127 said:

> >but they need to be telegraphed at least somewhat. A deadeye one-shotting you with a split-second tell when the class can teleport and stealth constantly is a bit much.

> >

> It's a huge slow laser and even a blind man can hear it from a mile away and dodge. You're afk if you're getting tagged with DJ enough for it to be a problem for you.

 

It's not that you can just hear it far away. The sound effect of the channel plays _on the target character as well, as if they were also activating the skill._ Meaning they know exactly when the shot is coming. The reason this wasn't changed in the most recent emergency scourge/gazelle balance portion of the PvE patch was because it is 100% working as intended.

[Hana.8143]

I’m shocked. Took a 28k in the back (was fighting an other thief). Instantly dc’ed because it’s not fun. I wonder when it’s supposed to be fun o_o. Am I missing something ? (except the bullet, ofc)

 

This game is quite sad atm :open_mouth:

[xDudisx.5914]

> @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> > @xDudisx.5914 said:

> > Well, your picture also says you hit the enemy for 4.9k using rush. Let me guess, you are running almost full zerker/marauder warrior? You could probably almost one shot a deadeye running glass canon.

>

> But, A thief doesnt need to be a glass cannon does he? Deaths Judgement gives 15% increased damage per a malice stack that means it can be either 75% increased damage or 105% Increased damage. Now add that to the 15% or 21% increased damage from the Malice itself. So you could be looking at 126% Increased damage from ONE trait, One passive stacking buff and 1 ability. There isnt a need to go full zerk.

>

>

 

1) It takes time to build malice.

 

2) Without high power your damage will be low. Without precision + ferocity you lose almost half of your damage.

 

3) Try to run a nomad's thief and post here your huge damage using rifle.

 

 

> @SWI.4127 said:

> > @xDudisx.5914 said:

> > > @SWI.4127 said:

> > > I remember reading this thread last week and didn't think much of it. But tonight I got crit for 24k dmg in 1 shot and I wasn't even marked. Is this a bug that's starting to get abused?

> > >

> > > 

> > >

> >

> > Well, your picture also says you hit the enemy for 4.9k using rush. Let me guess, you are running almost full zerker/marauder warrior? You could probably almost one shot a deadeye running glass canon.

>

> I accept the drawbacks that come with my greedy build. However it's also on the naturally tankiest profession in the game. It could easily one-shot light armor professions who did actually invest in some toughness. I got no problem with big hits from glass cannon builds in this game, but they need to be telegraphed at least somewhat. A deadeye one-shotting you with a split-second tell when the class can teleport and stealth constantly is a bit much. Keep in mind they can do this without ever marking you (I wasn't marked at any time when I got hit for that one in the combat log).

>

 

The marking problem is probably a bug. I think it will be fixed soon (or in a couple months). The skill description clearly states ..."increases your damage against the marked target". If they can mark A, and hit B the extra damage should not be applied. Either they fix the bug or change the skill description and call it a 'feature'.

 

3 seconds to get 1 malice stack. Would take 21 seconds to reach 7. In that time a player can move a big distance and maybe get out of range, break line of sight behind an object, stealth, etc.

 

 

[DemonSeed.3528]

Deadeye's Mark is actually working as intended. It generates malice. It also increases damage to the marked target. These are two seperate things. Death's Judgement only cares that you have malice stacks - not where it came from.

[babazhook.6805]

> @DemonSeed.3528 said:

> Deadeye's Mark is actually working as intended. It generates malice. It also increases damage to the marked target. These are two seperate things. Death's Judgement only cares that you have malice stacks - not where it came from.

 

This appears the same with the durations on the stolen items and the extra damage from the malice damage add for Shadow flare. That shadow flare Malice add aplies to all people standing in that AOE and not just the mark.> @DemonSeed.3528 said: