Downed state - Nerf it ?

[Sovereign.1093]

> @"Caedmon.6798" said:

> > @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> > how would u nerf it? ban mercy rune?

> >

> > normally those are run in gvgs only.

>

> Did you read my original post or.... ?

>

> Lemme quote it just for you !

>

> "".By reducing the res speed and making it so people can go down once but the 2nd time theyre dead."

 

normal res speed or the rune? i mean you mentioned the rune so thats what i thought.

 

is it really too fast? i mean i max of 5 ppl can revive. fully dead ppl have to respawn. or ressed only after combat.

 

players ressing downs are free to cast targets.

 

...

 

i just dont know. is hard now to rally against enemy downs.

 

2nd time down death mmmm... dunno man. ideas can be tested.

 

...

 

the feel we had last no downstate was fun. but the blobber group got the benefit more. since our smaller team cant really handle the 1 hitters. from together cleave

[MithranArkanere.8957]

> @"Warlord.9074" said:

> > @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> > If the no downed state wVW weekend has shown us something, is that it should not be removed.

>

> > And so on.

>

> If lets say 50% or more of the community disagrees with this assessment, than it's only shown us that a vocal minority disapproves of no down state. Id say this statement is closer to the truth.

>

> I mean we can keep downstate, but invulnerability on down has to go. As in the 1st 1-2 seconds a person goes down they are invulnerable this has to go. Down state health needs to be reduced by at least 25%, and downstate auto procs like Jade winds on downed neeed to be looked at.

>

> Other things. If you have 20 guys and the enemy has 70, downstate is pointless for you, you are just going to die anyways. Downstate only really favors the side that has more numbers, or even number fights. Like if you have 20 and are actually winning the 20 v 70 the side with 70 has a very unfair advantage. Lets be real even number fights is a rare occurrence. Can make the case if you are wiping in an even number fight you do not deserve to win.

 

Invulnerability on downed is there so whatever downs you does not kill you right away, like a lot of stacked AoEs. That cannot be removed, or downed state would be pretty much pointless.

 

The side with more numbers always has that advantage, downed state or not.

The only way you could counter-balance a numeric advantage is with something like effects that stack on someone when they are hit by way more people than they are hitting or gang up on someone or when they hit someone who is also being hit by a lot of people. Like and "Unyielding" effect that increases power against those a "Coward" effect and that "Coward" effect for those who outnumber, reducing armor against those with "Unyielding".

[Aury.1367]

I love it when im going 1v3 and one of the three gets downed, 2 others come to ress so I have perfect targets for some nukes, easy 3 dead people. The only unfair thing about downed state are the differences between classes, for example ele can freecast until downed and then just hover through a portal in WvW to safety. But thats another small thing that shouldnt have any focus right now. Theres more important stuff.

[displayname.8315]

If they remove downstate then they would have to remove 1-shot builds also then how would people make montage videos.

[Celsith.2753]

> @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

 

> The side with more numbers always has that advantage, downed state or not.

> The only way you could counter-balance a numeric advantage is with something like effects that stack on someone when they are hit by way more people than they are hitting or gang up on someone or when they hit someone who is also being hit by a lot of people. Like and "Unyielding" effect that increases power against those a "Coward" effect and that "Coward" effect for those who outnumber, reducing armor against those with "Unyielding".

 

But during no down state event many of us found that simply removing down state did a splendid job of equalizing fights versus larger numbers. And comes with the benefit of the server doing less calculations and us having less lag. Adding in effects depending on numbers etc just adds to the server load.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

> @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

>

> > The side with more numbers always has that advantage, downed state or not.

> > The only way you could counter-balance a numeric advantage is with something like effects that stack on someone when they are hit by way more people than they are hitting or gang up on someone or when they hit someone who is also being hit by a lot of people. Like and "Unyielding" effect that increases power against those a "Coward" effect and that "Coward" effect for those who outnumber, reducing armor against those with "Unyielding".

>

> But during no down state event many of us found that simply removing down state did a splendid job of equalizing fights versus larger numbers. And comes with the benefit of the server doing less calculations and us having less lag. Adding in effects depending on numbers etc just adds to the server load.

 

WvW is not only played like that. Groups have a wide variety of sizes and compositions. What may be fine for a 5v10 or a 15v30 fight can cause problems in other situations.

 

Take people who like to pick on newbies leaving bases while they are trying to get to their zerg.

Downed state doesn't prevent that when one is alone, but at least gives a little more time for someone to come along and help, and puts a downed icon in the minimap that tells allies "enemies have just been here", which a defeated icon doesn't do, since someone can be defeated on the ground for 5 mins or slipped off a cliff and ended up on the floor instantly defeated.

With downed state, these newbies may have more chances to survive if they manage to get a small group. Like 5.

One goes down, the rest have time to revive them before the cloaked enemy can finish them. Remove downed state, and someone can chase a small group of players and take them out one by one like the Predator with relative little danger to themselves.

Very fun for whoever does that, horribly unfun for whoever is on the other side. And when it comes to newbies, the last thing we need is making them think the game mode is unfair and unfun before they can even beging to get the gist of things. What we need is for them to stick around to pick up the pace and learn.

 

So, can't take downed state out because they are the much needed training wheels or safety net people need not to die too often while they learn. What would you do? Remove downed estate once someone reaches rank 500?

Then what we'll have is people complaining about some people having downed estate and some people not having it, and rich players being able to bypass it by buying new accounts.

 

[Israel.7056]

> @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> > @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > > @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> >

> > > The side with more numbers always has that advantage, downed state or not.

> > > The only way you could counter-balance a numeric advantage is with something like effects that stack on someone when they are hit by way more people than they are hitting or gang up on someone or when they hit someone who is also being hit by a lot of people. Like and "Unyielding" effect that increases power against those a "Coward" effect and that "Coward" effect for those who outnumber, reducing armor against those with "Unyielding".

> >

> > But during no down state event many of us found that simply removing down state did a splendid job of equalizing fights versus larger numbers. And comes with the benefit of the server doing less calculations and us having less lag. Adding in effects depending on numbers etc just adds to the server load.

>

> WvW is not only played like that. Groups have a wide variety of sizes and compositions. What may be fine for a 5v10 or a 15v30 fight can cause problems in other situations.

>

> Take people who like to pick on newbies leaving bases while they are trying to get to their zerg.

> Downed state doesn't prevent that when one is alone, but at least gives a little more time for someone to come along and help, and puts a downed icon in the minimap that tells allies "enemies have just been here", which a defeated icon doesn't do, since someone can be defeated on the ground for 5 mins or slipped off a cliff and ended up on the floor instantly defeated.

> With downed state, these newbies may have more chances to survive if they manage to get a small group. Like 5.

> One goes down, the rest have time to revive them before the cloaked enemy can finish them. Remove downed state, and someone can chase a small group of players and take them out one by one like the Predator with relative little danger to themselves.

> Very fun for whoever does that, horribly unfun for whoever is on the other side. And when it comes to newbies, the last thing we need is making them think the game mode is unfair and unfun before they can even beging to get the gist of things. What we need is for them to stick around to pick up the pace and learn.

>

> So, can't take downed state out because they are the much needed training wheels or safety net people need not to die too often while they learn. What would you do? Remove downed estate once someone reaches rank 500?

> Then what we'll have is people complaining about some people having downed estate and some people not having it, and rich players being able to bypass it by buying new accounts.

>

 

Or maybe stop treating adults like children who can't handle their own emotions or figure a way around a problem.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

> @"Israel.7056" said:

> > @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> > > @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > > > @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> > >

> > > > The side with more numbers always has that advantage, downed state or not.

> > > > The only way you could counter-balance a numeric advantage is with something like effects that stack on someone when they are hit by way more people than they are hitting or gang up on someone or when they hit someone who is also being hit by a lot of people. Like and "Unyielding" effect that increases power against those a "Coward" effect and that "Coward" effect for those who outnumber, reducing armor against those with "Unyielding".

> > >

> > > But during no down state event many of us found that simply removing down state did a splendid job of equalizing fights versus larger numbers. And comes with the benefit of the server doing less calculations and us having less lag. Adding in effects depending on numbers etc just adds to the server load.

> >

> > WvW is not only played like that. Groups have a wide variety of sizes and compositions. What may be fine for a 5v10 or a 15v30 fight can cause problems in other situations.

> >

> > Take people who like to pick on newbies leaving bases while they are trying to get to their zerg.

> > Downed state doesn't prevent that when one is alone, but at least gives a little more time for someone to come along and help, and puts a downed icon in the minimap that tells allies "enemies have just been here", which a defeated icon doesn't do, since someone can be defeated on the ground for 5 mins or slipped off a cliff and ended up on the floor instantly defeated.

> > With downed state, these newbies may have more chances to survive if they manage to get a small group. Like 5.

> > One goes down, the rest have time to revive them before the cloaked enemy can finish them. Remove downed state, and someone can chase a small group of players and take them out one by one like the Predator with relative little danger to themselves.

> > Very fun for whoever does that, horribly unfun for whoever is on the other side. And when it comes to newbies, the last thing we need is making them think the game mode is unfair and unfun before they can even beging to get the gist of things. What we need is for them to stick around to pick up the pace and learn.

> >

> > So, can't take downed state out because they are the much needed training wheels or safety net people need not to die too often while they learn. What would you do? Remove downed estate once someone reaches rank 500?

> > Then what we'll have is people complaining about some people having downed estate and some people not having it, and rich players being able to bypass it by buying new accounts.

> >

>

> Or maybe stop treating adults like children who can't handle their own emotions or figure a way around a problem.

 

That doesn't work. There must always be a balance.

Just as it's not fun when every little thing that is a bit too strong gets removed, "everything goes" is too hostile towards new players.

 

The extremes is what needs to be avoided. Downed state helps against some extremes. That's why it has stayed for so long.

[Caedmon.6798]

> @"displayname.8315" said:

> If they remove downstate then they would have to remove 1-shot builds also then how would people make montage videos.

 

People please read,this is NOT me asking for the removal of downed state but a nerf to downed state in any way,theres to many people talking about the complete removal of it when that wasnt what i wanted.A nerf to res speed/hp in downed state/the amount of times someone can go down in one minute/the way rallying works for e.g.I do know downed state has its place and anet wont ever remove it anyway,its not what i want.

[Israel.7056]

> @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> There must always be a balance.

 

Don't think you and I are going to agree on what constitutes "balance."

 

> Just as it's not fun when every little thing that is a bit too strong gets removed, "everything goes" is too hostile towards new players.

 

Just because they're new to GW2 doesn't mean they're new to MMOs. If they're really new to the game they're not going to expect downed state to save them anyways because in most MMOs you just die at the start and there's usually nothing you can do about it either because of the ridiculous gear treadmills every other MMO has. For instance I spent the first six months of Aion, which was my first MMO, getting one shot by all the full PvP geared players. At least in this game new players have a chance of defending themselves against veterans.

 

> The extremes is what needs to be avoided.

 

No one is proposing anything I would consider "extreme" here. "Radical" perhaps but not "extreme."

 

>Downed state helps against some extremes.

 

Perhaps that was the original hypothesis but in practice downed state mostly just ends up favoring the side with the larger numbers. It protects you when you outnumber an opponent because you can waste your defensives and your dodges, get dropped and still survive. It works against you when you're fighting outnumbered because you can land all your skills perfectly, drop several people and still get chain ccd by the rest of them while trying for a stomp or a cleave and find yourself gassed out with nothing to show for your efforts because the guys you dropped got ressed. This effect just gets more pronounced the bigger the dominant group and/or the bigger the number disparity between two groups.

 

The unintended consequence of trying to protect against "extremes" was to reinforce one of the most common extremes in this game aka zerging/blobbing.

 

 

[Celsith.2753]

> @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

>

> Take people who like to pick on newbies leaving bases while they are trying to get to their zerg.

> Downed state doesn't prevent that when one is alone, but at least gives a little more time for someone to come along and help, and puts a downed icon in the minimap that tells allies "enemies have just been here", which a defeated icon doesn't do, since someone can be defeated on the ground for 5 mins or slipped off a cliff and ended up on the floor instantly defeated.

> With downed state, these newbies may have more chances to survive if they manage to get a small group. Like 5.

> One goes down, the rest have time to revive them before the cloaked enemy can finish them. Remove downed state, and someone can chase a small group of players and take them out one by one like the Predator with relative little danger to themselves.

> Very fun for whoever does that, horribly unfun for whoever is on the other side. And when it comes to newbies, the last thing we need is making them think the game mode is unfair and unfun before they can even beging to get the gist of things. What we need is for them to stick around to pick up the pace and learn.

>

> So, can't take downed state out because they are the much needed training wheels or safety net people need not to die too often while they learn. What would you do? Remove downed estate once someone reaches rank 500?

> Then what we'll have is people complaining about some people having downed estate and some people not having it, and rich players being able to bypass it by buying new accounts.

>

 

You picked probably one of the places downed state doesn't help much. New players probably not geared for wvw who don't know how to interrupt a stomp :/ They get picked off downed state regardless, as is normal in any game until you learn. Players don't learn by relying on training wheels.

 

I quite enjoy responding to call outs by newbies or zerg builds asking for help getting away from gank. Why not encourage players to ask each other for help instead of giving them crutches which can also be used to out blob people?

[Sovereign.1093]

well if they nerf down state, i know it will be to my team's benefit. so i don't mind what change comes. but i do hope people also aim to l2play rather than nerf everything that doesn't go their way.

 

soon, we'll have a gw2 that's similar to other games. just like another x game out there. :pensive:

 

[TheBravery.9615]

They could just limit the number of players allowed to resurrect someone down to 1 and slow down the resurrection as well

 

That would be a fair compromise

[Sovereign.1093]

> @"TheBravery.9615" said:

> They could just limit the number of players allowed to resurrect someone down to 1 and slow down the resurrection as well

>

> That would be a fair compromise

 

normally only one perso resurrects anyway. the guy on mercy scourge or merciful guard

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> > @"TheBravery.9615" said:

> > They could just limit the number of players allowed to resurrect someone down to 1 and slow down the resurrection as well

> >

> > That would be a fair compromise

>

> normally only one perso resurrects anyway. the guy on mercy scourge or merciful guard

 

Also that would severely hinder our ability to laugh hard at 3+ people dropping when trying to res 1 while imagining the angry rant of their commander.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

> @"TheBravery.9615" said:

> They could just limit the number of players allowed to resurrect someone down to 1 and slow down the resurrection as well

>

> That would be a fair compromise

[That was already changed a long time ago for WvW](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2016-01-26#World_vs._World "That was already changed a long time ago for WvW"). Then at some time for PvP too.

 

Then reverted only for PvP.

 

In WvW, not only a player will only trigger 1 rally, only players and NPCs tied to events rally, like the enemies from veteran events, dolyaks and guards. Free-roaming enemies like moas and boars will not rally. That was done to prevent sneaky squishy roamers from tagging nearby fauna and getting free rallies and the extra HP that comes with them.

 

---

But this got me thinking, what if downed health also scaled based on the number of surrounding allies and their proximity?

 

Right now downed health will be 75%, 50% and 25% based on downed penalty. If downed health was reduced 1% for each allied player that is within 600 units, up to up to 50, the you would have it 55%, 30% and 5% downed health if there's 20 nearby allies; and 25%, instead defeat, instant defeat if you are stacking with 50 players.

 

This would definitely reduce the advantage of bigger numbers, but it would also make squads more hostile to randoms.

It could be limited to members of one's party or squad, but then parties and squads could get even pickier, or people could start going around without forming squads to avoid it.

 

There's nothing without downsides.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> But this got me thinking, what if downed health also scaled based on the number of surrounding allies and their proximity?

>

> Right now downed health will be 75%, 50% and 25% based on downed penalty. If downed health was reduced 1% for each allied player that is within 600 units, up to up to 50, the you would have it 55%, 30% and 5% downed health if there's 20 nearby allies; and 25%, instead defeat, instant defeat if you are stacking with 50 players.

>

> This would definitely reduce the advantage of bigger numbers, but it would also make squads more hostile to randoms.

> It could be limited to members of one's party or squad, but then parties and squads could get even pickier, or people could start going around without forming squads to avoid it.

>

> There's nothing without downsides.

 

if people are negatively affected by their allies that would be alot worse for new players (that you tried to protect above) than no downstate.

and it would cause a ton of server load.

IMO the good thing about no downstate was that when 2 groups fought eachother usually both got kills. the fights are mostly numerically very unbalanced in WvW and it doenst make sense to fight when you are going to lose that fight as there is nothing to gain in it, this leads to avoiding fights. for example lets say you got 10 people on the map and your opponent 50. you are a little better individually but that wouldnt matter much as its unlikely youll get more than the 2-3 people that run ahead/behind too much, so its not worth fighting as you wont be able to finish more. but without downstate you might be able to kill 15-20 of those each time, then your server would get more points out of it than the opponents and you would get rewarded with loot, so you got a reason to keep fighting back altho you lose the fight.

for numerically even fights downstate adds another tactical layer, but if there is a high difference in skill level it still might be that the losing side gets 0 out of it and not a little depending on their efforts, wich again leads to more fight avoiding than keep trying wich might improve them.

so guess my point is more about the rewards you get from the kills, they are very important to make players do something.

[Zok.4956]

> @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> If the no downed state wVW weekend has shown us something, is that it should not be removed.

 

The "no downed state wVW Weekend" has shown "us", that it was a lot of fun, and that several players have asked to do this again.

 

 

[Hackuuna.4085]

> @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> >

> > Take people who like to pick on newbies leaving bases while they are trying to get to their zerg.

> > Downed state doesn't prevent that when one is alone, but at least gives a little more time for someone to come along and help, and puts a downed icon in the minimap that tells allies "enemies have just been here", which a defeated icon doesn't do, since someone can be defeated on the ground for 5 mins or slipped off a cliff and ended up on the floor instantly defeated.

> > With downed state, these newbies may have more chances to survive if they manage to get a small group. Like 5.

> > One goes down, the rest have time to revive them before the cloaked enemy can finish them. Remove downed state, and someone can chase a small group of players and take them out one by one like the Predator with relative little danger to themselves.

> > Very fun for whoever does that, horribly unfun for whoever is on the other side. And when it comes to newbies, the last thing we need is making them think the game mode is unfair and unfun before they can even beging to get the gist of things. What we need is for them to stick around to pick up the pace and learn.

> >

> > So, can't take downed state out because they are the much needed training wheels or safety net people need not to die too often while they learn. What would you do? Remove downed estate once someone reaches rank 500?

> > Then what we'll have is people complaining about some people having downed estate and some people not having it, and rich players being able to bypass it by buying new accounts.

> >

>

> You picked probably one of the places downed state doesn't help much. New players probably not geared for wvw who don't know how to interrupt a stomp :/ They get picked off downed state regardless, as is normal in any game until you learn. Players don't learn by relying on training wheels.

>

> I quite enjoy responding to call outs by newbies or zerg builds asking for help getting away from gank. Why not encourage players to ask each other for help instead of giving them crutches which can also be used to out blob people?

 

Totally agree. I personally look forward to pressuring gank. Some of the posters here make it seem like newbies are just silently marching to their death over and over without learning. This might be news to the newbies out there but there are also hugely varying levels of skill in gank and I'd be surprised if your server doesn't have people well-equipped to take on the gank that's giving you problems.

[Caedmon.6798]

> @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> > @"TheBravery.9615" said:

> > They could just limit the number of players allowed to resurrect someone down to 1 and slow down the resurrection as well

> >

> > That would be a fair compromise

>

> normally only one perso resurrects anyway. the guy on mercy scourge or merciful guard

 

Normally ? thats all very fucking situational.Several people are usually ressing no matter the class.

[Caedmon.6798]

> @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> well if they nerf down state, i know it will be to my team's benefit. so i don't mind what change comes. but i do hope people also aim to l2play rather than nerf everything that doesn't go their way.

>

> soon, we'll have a gw2 that's similar to other games. just like another x game out there. :pensive:

>

Eventhough you reply alot in this thread,I dont think you understand this is not a l2p issue rather a "Remove stupid carrying mechanics" issue.Ive been playing since 2012 so you dont have to tell me how to do this or that.If since 2012 you havnt seen the issues or can think of issues that arise when facing more people than your side has where downed state is the crutch, than i must assume youre only blobbing or running with 15+ ppl anyway and have no value in this thread since this is an issue that arises when roaming or doing small scale stuff not being carried by others in your back.

 

You post a vid where you run with 19 people and you consider this small scale ? You honestly dont know the issues being layed out because downed state is no issue when you run with so many.

[Caedmon.6798]

Again,this is about SMALL SCALE/ROAMING ONLY, meaning running with 1 to 5 people,anything above has no value in this thread because it does not hinder them the way it does in small scale. Leave blobbing and 15 - 20+ raiding out of this because it is no issue in those fights.Everything anet has done since 2012 is promoting blob play.Its time to give the hand full of people that still bother to roam ( And theyre more important than you blobbers will ever acknowledge ) a helping hand aswell,and the issue layed out is one of the most frustrating aspects of roaming where you face more than your side has and ppl keep getting ressed like that without you able to do a thing against it besides downing them fully 4x.You can scream l2p all you want,but youre to blind to the fact that finishes can get interrupted/outrezzed and cleaves can get negated aswell in several ways and utils or safestomps have been used in the fight prior to downing someone.

 

 

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"Caedmon.6798" said:

> Again,this is about SMALL SCALE/ROAMING ONLY. Leave blobbing and 15 - 20+ raiding out of this because it is no issue in those fights.Everything anet has done since 2012 is promoting blob play.Its time to give the hand full of people that still bother to roam a helping hand aswell,and the issue layed out is one of the most frustrating aspects of roaming where you face more than your side has nad ppl keep getting ressed like that without you able to do a thing agaisnt it besides downing them fully 4x.

>

>

I think that's hard to do though.

 

Downstate affects all aspects of WvW play. Zergs, guild raids, havoc groups, solo roamers.

 

So it's impossible to separate the groups. Not without, as an earlier poster noted significantly increasing the server load.

 

And I do understand you are no asking in this thread for downstate to be removed.

 

I think most would agree to some nerf in downstate. I've seen a few suggestions:

- decreasing downstate health

- Increasing the downstate penalty to decrease how many times you can go down without breaking combat

- Decreasing rezzing effectiveness

- Etc

 

I think the biggest challenge would be finding a mechanism that didn't significantly impact PvE as unfortunately we play by a similar rule

Set.

 

I know we don't really care how it impacts PvE, but any significant change would cause them to blow up. And given the numbers they have......

 

[Caedmon.6798]

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > @"Caedmon.6798" said:

> > Again,this is about SMALL SCALE/ROAMING ONLY. Leave blobbing and 15 - 20+ raiding out of this because it is no issue in those fights.Everything anet has done since 2012 is promoting blob play.Its time to give the hand full of people that still bother to roam a helping hand aswell,and the issue layed out is one of the most frustrating aspects of roaming where you face more than your side has nad ppl keep getting ressed like that without you able to do a thing agaisnt it besides downing them fully 4x.

> >

> >

> I think that's hard to do though.

>

> Downstate affects all aspects of WvW play. Zergs, guild raids, havoc groups, solo roamers.

>

> So it's impossible to separate the groups. Not without, as an earlier poster noted significantly increasing the server load.

>

> And I do understand you are no asking in this thread for downstate to be removed.

>

> I think most would agree to some nerf in downstate. I've seen a few suggestions:

> - decreasing downstate health

> - Increasing the downstate penalty to decrease how many times you can go down without breaking combat

> - Decreasing rezzing effectiveness

> - Etc

>

> I think the biggest challenge would be finding a mechanism that didn't significantly impact PvE as unfortunately we play by a similar rule

> Set.

>

> I know we don't really care how it impacts PvE, but any significant change would cause them to blow up. And given the numbers they have......

>

 

The decrease in res speed,the less hp in downed state,the less ways of getting downed in one minute.How would this even hurt raiding or blob play ? this will only shine in small scale stuff anyway.It would even give those 15+ "skilled" raiders a chance vs something bigger again aswell.

[displayname.8315]

Small scale you should stealth and warp your downs to safety, or illusion of life them, invuln and res with traited or mercy. Even if taking on larger groups it can work both ways.

 

Game is very gank oriented and snipey, downstate works ok both ways.