Episode 4: thread for spoilers and comments.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> The biggest problem people have is trying to conflate all magic as just being magic, when the game has made it pretty clear there are very distinct types of magic, and I don't mean like how a Mesmer's magic is different then that of an Elementalist. The Elder Dragon's magic is much like the Gods magic in that it is fundamentally distinct and different in its very being compared to the mortal magics, and thus posses unique traits such as blinding brightness, or a connection to the all, due to its primal, higher-order, nature.

 

TL;DR for folks, Sajuuk's basically saying (and I concur) what the item [Cosmic Power](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cosmic_Power) tells us. Dragon magic, ley line magic, and Mists magic are three distinctively different things.

 

The opposite of what Taimi tells us in Season 3.

[Fenom.9457]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > The biggest problem people have is trying to conflate all magic as just being magic, when the game has made it pretty clear there are very distinct types of magic, and I don't mean like how a Mesmer's magic is different then that of an Elementalist. The Elder Dragon's magic is much like the Gods magic in that it is fundamentally distinct and different in its very being compared to the mortal magics, and thus posses unique traits such as blinding brightness, or a connection to the all, due to its primal, higher-order, nature.

>

> TL;DR for folks, Sajuuk's basically saying (and I concur) what the item [Cosmic Power](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cosmic_Power) tells us. Dragon magic, ley line magic, and Mists magic are three distinctively different things.

>

> The opposite of what Taimi tells us in Season 3.

 

 

Taimi talked about a spectrum that the dragons had covered, but that doesn't mean it was all magic, right? Like all the magic professions use isn't meant to be in the draconic spectrum is it?

[derd.6413]

> @"Fenom.9457" said:

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > > The biggest problem people have is trying to conflate all magic as just being magic, when the game has made it pretty clear there are very distinct types of magic, and I don't mean like how a Mesmer's magic is different then that of an Elementalist. The Elder Dragon's magic is much like the Gods magic in that it is fundamentally distinct and different in its very being compared to the mortal magics, and thus posses unique traits such as blinding brightness, or a connection to the all, due to its primal, higher-order, nature.

> >

> > TL;DR for folks, Sajuuk's basically saying (and I concur) what the item [Cosmic Power](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cosmic_Power) tells us. Dragon magic, ley line magic, and Mists magic are three distinctively different things.

> >

> > The opposite of what Taimi tells us in Season 3.

>

>

> Taimi talked about a spectrum that the dragons had covered, but that doesn't mean it was all magic, right? Like all the magic professions use isn't meant to be in the draconic spectrum is it?

 

most of it probably is (also it isn't draconic spectrum but magic spectrum it applies to more then just dragon magic) rev being an obvious exception

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"Fenom.9457" said:

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > > The biggest problem people have is trying to conflate all magic as just being magic, when the game has made it pretty clear there are very distinct types of magic, and I don't mean like how a Mesmer's magic is different then that of an Elementalist. The Elder Dragon's magic is much like the Gods magic in that it is fundamentally distinct and different in its very being compared to the mortal magics, and thus posses unique traits such as blinding brightness, or a connection to the all, due to its primal, higher-order, nature.

> >

> > TL;DR for folks, Sajuuk's basically saying (and I concur) what the item [Cosmic Power](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cosmic_Power) tells us. Dragon magic, ley line magic, and Mists magic are three distinctively different things.

> >

> > The opposite of what Taimi tells us in Season 3.

>

>

> Taimi talked about a spectrum that the dragons had covered, but that doesn't mean it was all magic, right? Like all the magic professions use isn't meant to be in the draconic spectrum is it?

 

[Taimi: Magic as we know it is like white light, composed of all the different types of dragon magic.

](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Taimi's_Game)

 

She outright calls "magic as we know it" as being made of dragon magic. This contradicts what's said in Sorrow's Embrace, Crucible of Eternity, and by Scarlet, as well as the above Cosmic Power collection for Astralaria. And based on what we've been seeing in the plot, seems to be contradicted even more.

 

A lot of what Taimi says in Season 3 about the nature in magic is both contradictive and contradicted quite often, sometimes even by herself. I'm not sure the devs were really together on those dialogues tbh.

 

But it's pretty clear just by looking at the six magical professions (I'm excluding Revenants) that they don't line up with the Elder Dragons well (no guardian dragon, no crystal profession). Not only that, but if the Elder Dragons have opposite forces, like we see between plant and death and fire and ice, then elementalists, sylvari necromancers, and especially weavers should all be exploding just like when the Unstable Abomination gets exposed to either plant or death, or with how Primordus is weak to Jormag's ice and Jormag is weak to Primordus' fire.

[derd.6413]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"Fenom.9457" said:

> > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > > @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > > > The biggest problem people have is trying to conflate all magic as just being magic, when the game has made it pretty clear there are very distinct types of magic, and I don't mean like how a Mesmer's magic is different then that of an Elementalist. The Elder Dragon's magic is much like the Gods magic in that it is fundamentally distinct and different in its very being compared to the mortal magics, and thus posses unique traits such as blinding brightness, or a connection to the all, due to its primal, higher-order, nature.

> > >

> > > TL;DR for folks, Sajuuk's basically saying (and I concur) what the item [Cosmic Power](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cosmic_Power) tells us. Dragon magic, ley line magic, and Mists magic are three distinctively different things.

> > >

> > > The opposite of what Taimi tells us in Season 3.

> >

> >

> > Taimi talked about a spectrum that the dragons had covered, but that doesn't mean it was all magic, right? Like all the magic professions use isn't meant to be in the draconic spectrum is it?

>

> [Taimi: Magic as we know it is like white light, composed of all the different types of dragon magic.

> ](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Taimi's_Game)

>

> She outright calls "magic as we know it" as being made of dragon magic. This contradicts what's said in Sorrow's Embrace, Crucible of Eternity, and by Scarlet, as well as the above Cosmic Power collection for Astralaria. And based on what we've been seeing in the plot, seems to be contradicted even more.

>

> A lot of what Taimi says in Season 3 about the nature in magic is both contradictive and contradicted quite often, sometimes even by herself. I'm not sure the devs were really together on those dialogues tbh.

>

> But it's pretty clear just by looking at the eight professions (I'm excluding Revenants) that they don't line up with the Elder Dragons well at all. Not only that, but if the Elder Dragons have opposite forces, like we see between plant and death and fire and ice, then elementalists, sylvari necromancers, and especially weavers should all be exploding just like when the Unstable Abomination gets exposed to either plant or death, or with how Primordus is weak to Jormag's ice and Jormag is weak to Primordus' fire.

 

could you give examples of these contradictions (it's been a while since i went to any of those places)

 

as for the professions thing: it's a spectrum like a color hexagon meaning you could easily combine magics it just means that if you combine magic with the same amount of the exact opposite magic they cancel eachother out (or whatever it was that happened) or you could purposefully collide the magics at a distance if it could cause a violent reaction.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"derd.6413" said:

> could you give examples of these contradictions (it's been a while since i went to any of those places)

>

> as for the professions thing: it's a spectrum like a color hexagon meaning you could easily combine magics it just means that if you combine magic with the same amount of the exact opposite magic they cancel eachother out (or whatever it was that happened) or you could purposefully collide the magics at a distance if it could cause a violent reaction.

 

Outside of the ones I did?

 

On the "unique weakness" with Jormag v Primordus, we also have Mordremoth v Zhaitan weakness (as seen via Unstable Abomination and strongly hinted at in a dialogue at Siren's Landing), while Taimi still says Mordremoth's weakness was his own mind. This suggests that either a) Team 3 messed up twice, or b) Elder Dragons have two "weaknesses" and one is... explosive. The more likely possibility would be the later, as this would explain why we don't see any destroyers imbued with both death and plant, and we see no branded imbued with both death and plant either; it would also mean that Novans either didn't know this "opposition" thing or didn't include it when talking about "unique weaknesses" (since Taimi mixed this up, the former is more likely in this scenario), and that Primordus and Jormag have a still-undefined weakness. Would also mean exposing Kralkatorrik (and by extension, branded, Aurene, etc.) to the DSD's magic would be explosive, and can hint that maybe Taimi is wrong about "one more ED death makes The All unstable" and it was "using opposite forces to kill two Elder Dragons makes The All unstable".

 

As for calling "magic as we know it" to be the same as "dragon magic": Throughout the core game and Season 1, "dragon energy" and its various other forms of calling (draconic energy, dragon magic, etc.) are the corrupting magics that Elder Dragons use, each one being unique to the respective Elder Dragon, and not some widespread spectrum which "magic as we know it" (e.g., profession magic) can use. That is to say, necromancy != Zhaitan's death magic. This was part of why Jormag's ice has a distinctively blue and black appearance to it, it's even brought up by a norn PC to a sylvari NPC as being unique to Jormag. Some places where it was talked about being the asura C3 PS, Whispers C5 PS, SE and CoE story, and Thaumanova Fractal (and, more specifically, Ellen Kiel's dialogue during Fractured release after doing the Thaumanova Fractal story instance).

 

Divine magic is also distinctively made out to be different than normal magic throughout the core game (Priory C4 story, Orr temples), Season 2 (Divine Torch stuff), and S3 (Livia's redundantly repeated "god magic" repetition of redundancy in the last instance of One Path Ends). So again, it's different from dragon energy, while being within the scope of "magic as we know it".

 

And, as mentioned, the Cosmic Power stuff which paints dragon energy as being distinctively different from both Mists magic and Tyrian magic (for lack of better dubbing).

 

As for your second note: that's what a fire&water/ice elementalist does, though. Mixing two opposite magics at equal portions. One would think they'd cancel out, but they instead blend. Sylvari necromancers would also be canceling each other out.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> On the "unique weakness" with Jormag v Primordus, we also have Mordremoth v Zhaitan weakness (as seen via Unstable Abomination and strongly hinted at in a dialogue at Siren's Landing), while Taimi still says Mordremoth's weakness was his own mind. This suggests that either a) Team 3 messed up twice, or b) Elder Dragons have two "weaknesses" and one is... explosive. The more likely possibility would be the later, as this would explain why we don't see any destroyers imbued with both death and plant, and we see no branded imbued with both death and plant either; it would also mean that Novans either didn't know this "opposition" thing or didn't include it when talking about "unique weaknesses" (since Taimi mixed this up, the former is more likely in this scenario), and that Primordus and Jormag have a still-undefined weakness. Would also mean exposing Kralkatorrik (and by extension, branded, Aurene, etc.) to the DSD's magic would be explosive, and can hint that maybe Taimi is wrong about "one more ED death makes The All unstable" and it was "using opposite forces to kill two Elder Dragons makes The All unstable".

This is what always bugged me about the claim that Primordus and Jormag's weaknesses were each other. We saw death and plant dragon magic being unstable when interacting, so it makes sense each of the EDs would be explosively weak against their polar opposite. But, as you point out, this wasn't either Zhaitan or Mordemoth's actual weakness. Zhaitan's was his over reliance on highly specialized minions, and Mordremoth's was his mind, which does suggest both Jormag and Primordus would have their own individual weakness other then being hit by a beam of each other's magic. And, while we know Kralkatorrik's weakness is the special harmonics created by his own crystal energy, I would agree that its likely that hes also weak to being exposed to pure DSD energy, given the same is true of the other EDs.

[derd.6413]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"derd.6413" said:

> > could you give examples of these contradictions (it's been a while since i went to any of those places)

> >

> > as for the professions thing: it's a spectrum like a color hexagon meaning you could easily combine magics it just means that if you combine magic with the same amount of the exact opposite magic they cancel eachother out (or whatever it was that happened) or you could purposefully collide the magics at a distance if it could cause a violent reaction.

>

> Outside of the ones I did?

>

> On the "unique weakness" with Jormag v Primordus, we also have Mordremoth v Zhaitan weakness (as seen via Unstable Abomination and strongly hinted at in a dialogue at Siren's Landing), while Taimi still says Mordremoth's weakness was his own mind. This suggests that either a) Team 3 messed up twice, or b) Elder Dragons have two "weaknesses" and one is... explosive. The more likely possibility would be the later, as this would explain why we don't see any destroyers imbued with both death and plant, and we see no branded imbued with both death and plant either; it would also mean that Novans either didn't know this "opposition" thing or didn't include it when talking about "unique weaknesses" (since Taimi mixed this up, the former is more likely in this scenario), and that Primordus and Jormag have a still-undefined weakness. Would also mean exposing Kralkatorrik (and by extension, branded, Aurene, etc.) to the DSD's magic would be explosive, and can hint that maybe Taimi is wrong about "one more ED death makes The All unstable" and it was "using opposite forces to kill two Elder Dragons makes The All unstable".

>

> As for calling "magic as we know it" to be the same as "dragon magic": Throughout the core game and Season 1, "dragon energy" and its various other forms of calling (draconic energy, dragon magic, etc.) are the corrupting magics that Elder Dragons use, each one being unique to the respective Elder Dragon, and not some widespread spectrum which "magic as we know it" (e.g., profession magic) can use. That is to say, necromancy != Zhaitan's death magic. This was part of why Jormag's ice has a distinctively blue and black appearance to it, it's even brought up by a norn PC to a sylvari NPC as being unique to Jormag. Some places where it was talked about being the asura C3 PS, Whispers C5 PS, SE and CoE story, and Thaumanova Fractal (and, more specifically, Ellen Kiel's dialogue during Fractured release after doing the Thaumanova Fractal story instance).

>

> Divine magic is also distinctively made out to be different than normal magic throughout the core game (Priory C4 story, Orr temples), Season 2 (Divine Torch stuff), and S3 (Livia's redundantly repeated "god magic" repetition of redundancy in the last instance of One Path Ends). So again, it's different from dragon energy, while being within the scope of "magic as we know it".

>

> And, as mentioned, the Cosmic Power stuff which paints dragon energy as being distinctively different from both Mists magic and Tyrian magic (for lack of better dubbing).

 

something can have different properties then it's building blocks, kind a like how we need to drink water but drinking pure H²O can kill you easily.

 

> As for your second note: that's what a fire&water/ice elementalist does, though. Mixing two opposite magics at equal portions. One would think they'd cancel out, but they instead blend. Sylvari necromancers would also be canceling each other out.

 

just because they're together doesn't mean they'll automatically mix, some materials require certain things before they'll mix.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"derd.6413" said:

> > could you give examples of these contradictions (it's been a while since i went to any of those places)

> >

> > as for the professions thing: it's a spectrum like a color hexagon meaning you could easily combine magics it just means that if you combine magic with the same amount of the exact opposite magic they cancel eachother out (or whatever it was that happened) or you could purposefully collide the magics at a distance if it could cause a violent reaction.

>

> Outside of the ones I did?

>

> On the "unique weakness" with Jormag v Primordus, we also have Mordremoth v Zhaitan weakness (as seen via Unstable Abomination and strongly hinted at in a dialogue at Siren's Landing), while Taimi still says Mordremoth's weakness was his own mind. This suggests that either a) Team 3 messed up twice, or b) Elder Dragons have two "weaknesses" and one is... explosive. The more likely possibility would be the later, as this would explain why we don't see any destroyers imbued with both death and plant, and we see no branded imbued with both death and plant either; it would also mean that Novans either didn't know this "opposition" thing or didn't include it when talking about "unique weaknesses" (since Taimi mixed this up, the former is more likely in this scenario), and that Primordus and Jormag have a still-undefined weakness. Would also mean exposing Kralkatorrik (and by extension, branded, Aurene, etc.) to the DSD's magic would be explosive, and can hint that maybe Taimi is wrong about "one more ED death makes The All unstable" and it was "using opposite forces to kill two Elder Dragons makes The All unstable".

>

> As for calling "magic as we know it" to be the same as "dragon magic": Throughout the core game and Season 1, "dragon energy" and its various other forms of calling (draconic energy, dragon magic, etc.) are the corrupting magics that Elder Dragons use, each one being unique to the respective Elder Dragon, and not some widespread spectrum which "magic as we know it" (e.g., profession magic) can use. That is to say, necromancy != Zhaitan's death magic. This was part of why Jormag's ice has a distinctively blue and black appearance to it, it's even brought up by a norn PC to a sylvari NPC as being unique to Jormag. Some places where it was talked about being the asura C3 PS, Whispers C5 PS, SE and CoE story, and Thaumanova Fractal (and, more specifically, Ellen Kiel's dialogue during Fractured release after doing the Thaumanova Fractal story instance).

>

> Divine magic is also distinctively made out to be different than normal magic throughout the core game (Priory C4 story, Orr temples), Season 2 (Divine Torch stuff), and S3 (Livia's redundantly repeated "god magic" repetition of redundancy in the last instance of One Path Ends). So again, it's different from dragon energy, while being within the scope of "magic as we know it".

>

> And, as mentioned, the Cosmic Power stuff which paints dragon energy as being distinctively different from both Mists magic and Tyrian magic (for lack of better dubbing).

>

> As for your second note: that's what a fire&water/ice elementalist does, though. Mixing two opposite magics at equal portions. One would think they'd cancel out, but they instead blend. Sylvari necromancers would also be canceling each other out.

 

One thing to note, magic is shown to be able to be filtered to some extent. The dragons seem to be able to eat any source of magic and adapt it to their own unique type with the exception of magic from other ED's. I get the feeling that all magic has a shared core source. Might be what the spectrum comment by Taimi meant.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> This is what always bugged me about the claim that Primordus and Jormag's weaknesses were each other. We saw death and plant dragon magic being unstable when interacting, so it makes sense each of the EDs would be explosively weak against their polar opposite. But, as you point out, this wasn't either Zhaitan or Mordemoth's actual weakness. Zhaitan's was his over reliance on highly specialized minions, and Mordremoth's was his mind, which does suggest both Jormag and Primordus would have their own individual weakness other then being hit by a beam of each other's magic. And, while we know Kralkatorrik's weakness is the special harmonics created by his own crystal energy, I would agree that its likely that hes also weak to being exposed to pure DSD energy, given the same is true of the other EDs.

This would also solve the "two dragons one xpack" problem I had with Jormag and Primordus being each other's weakness. If they were each other's only weakness then we would have had to take them out at the same time, and, unless that expansion was the size of HoT, PoF, and half of LWS4 combined, it just wouldn't be big enough to do either of them justice. Them having some other weakness beyond each other would make fighting them individually possible, thus allowing them to do each in a bit more fulfilling way.

[Gorgaan Peaudesang.8324]

So we sent Rytlock scouting in the Mists while he carries a god-imbued flaming sword. Hmm...

 

I guess we will start next episode either in Kesho (which might have been completely buried by the Forged during our visit) or near Glint’s Lair, two important locations that connect with Aurene and are in the PoF-area.

[ugrakarma.9416]

> @"Gorgaan Peaudesang.8324" said:

> So we sent Rytlock scouting in the Mists while he carries a god-imbued flaming sword. Hmm...

>

> I guess we will start next episode either in Kesho (which might have been completely buried by the Forged during our visit) or near Glint’s Lair, two important locations that connect with Aurene and are in the PoF-area.

 

or in Sulfuric Wastelands.

 

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Staff_of_the_Mists

 

i bet the Staff is the weapon mentioned by Vlast.

 

> The Scepter of Orr is a relic from the kingdom of Orr and is the **twin of the Staff of the Mists which controls forces from beyond the known reality**, such as a titan, and makes this outer world obey the bearer's will; this staff controls the mind world and as such alters a player's energy when wielded or near by.

>

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Scepter_of_Orr

 

Kralkatorrik going to the Mists basically he was thrown himself into a trap. the question is figure which trap to use there.

 

 

 

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

And whether the Staff is intact. Remember, we took it to that point for the specific purpose of using the location to destroy it. It'd be a bit of a kitten pull to suddenly backtrack on that and say the Staff is fine.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

If its a magic staff it would be probably be the Scepter of Orr, since we don't know what happened to it after Livia found it. The Staff of Mists was destroyed, and as Aaron mentions, it would be dumb to say it wasn't.

[Tanith.5264]

>

> Anet writing is like the Targaryens. Every time something new releases, you can flip a coin about it's quality.

>

>

 

Speaking of which, how can we learn who _did_ write this episode, as well as the previous one? Because there is a distinct change in the tone of the writing.

 

 

[Yilia.7509]

> @"Vorch.2985" said:

>

> Even though it was great to see Snaff and Eir to get some closure for the group (wish Logan had seen Snaff), I can't remember feeling this way ever in the Guild Wars franchise...MAYBE with the death of our Order Guide in vanilla GW2 or even the death of Master Togo in GW: Factions.

>

Did you just forget Eir??? I still can't forgive Anet for killing her.

[ugrakarma.9416]

> @"Tanith.5264" said:

> >

> > Anet writing is like the Targaryens. Every time something new releases, you can flip a coin about it's quality.

> >

> >

>

> Speaking of which, how can we learn who _did_ write this episode, as well as the previous one? Because there is a distinct change in the tone of the writing.

>

>

 

Comments scattered in forums, said it was done by "team 1".

 

But looking at the quality improvement, it does not seem to me the fruit of mere change of team.s It seems to me that are some new internal guidelines, this episode can be called a: _"a star to guide new content release"_.

[Yilia.7509]

> @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

>

> And this create the inevitable conclusion that the gods will return here to clean up the mess.

>

From what I know about lore, the gods went to another universe to let the humans settle there because they thought the humans could never thrive like they want them to with the elder dragons around. I might be wrong but this makes it not as likely that the gods would come back. They left the mists for some other universe, remember?

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

> @"Tanith.5264" said:

> >

> > Anet writing is like the Targaryens. Every time something new releases, you can flip a coin about it's quality.

> >

> >

>

> Speaking of which, how can we learn who _did_ write this episode, as well as the previous one? Because there is a distinct change in the tone of the writing.

>

>

 

It came up in the [dev celebration:](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/687472/#Comment_687472)

 

"Just want to give a shout out to our two writers - Lily Yu and Samantha Wallschlaeger, who were focused on our open world and main path, respectively. They both did an amazing job."

 

My understanding is that a different group did Long Live the Lich, though.

[ugrakarma.9416]

> @"Yilia.7509" said:

> > @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> >

> > And this create the inevitable conclusion that the gods will return here to clean up the mess.

> >

> From what I know about lore, the gods went to another universe to let the humans settle there because they thought the humans could never thrive like they want them to with the elder dragons around. I might be wrong but this makes it not as likely that the gods would come back. They left the mists for some other universe, remember?

 

I'm speculating on how much damage Kralkatorrik will do in the Mists, since the Mists is something that encompasses all the multiverses.

 

Obviously, it would be a poor narrative if the Gods just "come from sky" to do our work with a single snap, and is something extremely unlikely for the writers to carry on.

 

Then the real question is, how much _Dragon Ball Z effect_ they intend to apply on Kralkatorrik and in us?

 

He has already gained special powers by simply absorbing Balthazar's magic. And now in the mists the possibilities are endless.

 

If Its go too far, it seems clear to me, the intention of bringing the gods back on the scene, perhaps not directly, solving everything in a snap, perhaps given a "gift," or a "magic artifact.", its only way to deal with a supermassive demi-god Kralkatorrik without apply _Dragonball Z effect_ on us or in Aurene: Bringing back in the scene, entities that are already superpowered.

 

[ThatOddOne.4387]

> @"Yilia.7509" said:

> > @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> >

> > And this create the inevitable conclusion that the gods will return here to clean up the mess.

> >

> From what I know about lore, the gods went to another universe to let the humans settle there because they thought the humans could never thrive like they want them to with the elder dragons around. I might be wrong but this makes it not as likely that the gods would come back. They left the mists for some other universe, remember?

 

They're deeper in the Mists/on another world which will be connected to the Mists, not a different universe. It's not outside the realm of possibility they'll notice an Elder Dragon is now romping about where it shouldn't be.

 

It would frankly be nonsensical for them not to intervene. Though them not being aware if they're busy on an actual world shaping it or preparing it as a back-up plan or whatever would make sense, and in which case it would be like has been suggested: An episode or two where we go and FIND the Gods and tell them what's going on, which will spur their intervention in some manner, whether it's to contain the damage whilst we fight Kralkatorrik, empower us or combat him directly alongside us. Again, the major reason why they did not intervene with the Elder Dragons is because of the damage that will be done to Tyria if the Gods and Elder Dragons go ham on each other. With the battle taking place in the Mists, that removes the risk.

 

And no, all of the above is still not a deus ex machina especially if we spend the appropriate amount of time finding the Gods.

 

Like has been said, at this point, with Kralkatorrik as powerful as he is, with no possible combination of factors available to us enabling us to win, as seen via Aurene's visions, really the Gods are the only sensible answer to this story conumdrum, otherwise what would be the narrative point of making him so powerful in the first place if we can still just defeat him via something we come up with ourselves?

[Torn Fierceslash.6375]

I also see they mentioned the Guild Wars 1 PC ( Hero of Nightfall was what they said) at the end with Koss and Kossan.

[Alchimist.4738]

> @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> > @"Alchimist.4738" said:

> > We know that Kralkatorrik can travel to the mist, and Taimi says it's a unique behavior for Elder Dragons, but I thought Jormag could also travel to the mist, or at least his minions, because in the Norn personal story we travel ourself to the mist and fight the Son of Svanir and some Icebrood Elementals there.

>

> The Sons of Svanir basically hijacked the ability of the regular norn shamans to enter the Mists. Once they no longer had control of a regular shaman prisoner to let them in, they were no longer able to - neither Jormag nor his minions gained the ability to open portals themselves.

>

> Kralkatorrik, apparently, has: probably, as someone commented above, as a result of consuming Balthazar's magic, which did include being able to open portals.

 

Alright, I have another question then.

 

Wasn't Zhaitan interacting somehow with the Underworld which is in the Mists, I'm not sure if the Eyes of Zhaitan and Mouths of Zhaitan in the Hall of Chains are supposed to be Zhaitan's minions, or just random creatures re-using the same models.

[MarySueLlama.8136]

I had an embarrassing amount of difficulty with escaping the Mists on the raptor, so I was pleased by the floating space raptor visuals near the end. It felt so silly and looked so cool that I didn't mind doing it over and over.

I just hope the remaining human gods will do something at some point. I've been frustrated ever since Kormir nope'd out of her library - I don't understand why the PC didn't ask her who the new 6th is, in case it affects a mortal in some region of Tyria ascending to godhood and somehow disrupting the status quo there. It'd be nice to be prepared.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"Tanith.5264" said:

> > Anet writing is like the Targaryens. Every time something new releases, you can flip a coin about it's quality.

> Speaking of which, how can we learn who _did_ write this episode, as well as the previous one? Because there is a distinct change in the tone of the writing.

 

Linsey Murdock confirmed it was the same team who did Out of the Shadows, The Head of the Snake, and Daybreak over in the "celebration" stuff.

 

> @"Alchimist.4738" said:

> > @"draxynnic.3719" said:

> > > @"Alchimist.4738" said:

> > > We know that Kralkatorrik can travel to the mist, and Taimi says it's a unique behavior for Elder Dragons, but I thought Jormag could also travel to the mist, or at least his minions, because in the Norn personal story we travel ourself to the mist and fight the Son of Svanir and some Icebrood Elementals there.

> >

> > The Sons of Svanir basically hijacked the ability of the regular norn shamans to enter the Mists. Once they no longer had control of a regular shaman prisoner to let them in, they were no longer able to - neither Jormag nor his minions gained the ability to open portals themselves.

> >

> > Kralkatorrik, apparently, has: probably, as someone commented above, as a result of consuming Balthazar's magic, which did include being able to open portals.

>

> Alright, I have another question then.

>

> Wasn't Zhaitan interacting somehow with the Underworld which is in the Mists, I'm not sure if the Eyes of Zhaitan and Mouths of Zhaitan in the Hall of Chains are supposed to be Zhaitan's minions, or just random creatures re-using the same models.

 

Zhaitan is said to have been able to pull souls from the Underworld, but the Eye of Fate, Eye of Judgment, and Eater of Souls are just demons, not risen, using reskinned Eye of Zhaitan / Mouth of Zhaitan models. Though it should be noted that any necromancer can summon souls from the Underworld, so a corrupted priest of Grenth would be able to do that 'easily'.