Achievement Points

[FrizzFreston.5290]

Other than completing them the point value is irrelevant to me really.

 

At some point you just replay what you have already done and thats how you get most of your rewards, through drops gathering eventchests etc, not through AP. AP are just arbitrary bonus points.

 

 

[Fenom.9457]

> @"Hesacon.8735" said:

> I'll never get the LW1 AP because I started after LW2 ended and before HoT began.

 

 

Me too, and we’re being punished for it

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Randulf.7614" said:

> > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > @"Randulf.7614" said:

> > > Why do they need to offer less? There is no lgical reason for it to be deemed unstable by offering say 500 or even 1000 ap per episode. They are pretty much free to up the limit to no negative cost.

> >

> > If you call 'no negative cost" having to create a new armor set when players reach the next point... Yes let's offer 1k AP per episode so they have to constantly put more new items on the achievement rewards instead of leaving it alone as it is. There is a set amount of AP we can get every year (or month, I don't know how they set their AP budget) that's not going to change, if individual AP rewards give increased rewards, then the number of them need to go down to keep the target goal the same. And the target is there so they don't have to constantly deal with adding new rewards to Achievements just to satisfy some players that want to get 25 AP for their "effort" instead of 5.

>

> We are so far off the point of reaching a new set, it isnt really an issue. Plus we are talking one single set. If they cant find time to add in one single set over the next couple of years for future proofing, then that would be baffling. Or they could not put any rewards beyond titles, gems, laurels. Or maybe just a backpack. Or a mount licence. The possibilities are plentiful

>

> If we went 1k ap an episode as an example, that is what 4-5k extra a year? That isnt a game changing dent on the track. That means if they started now, players would hit the current 60k cap in 3-4 years. That seems pretty reasonable as a long term goal to me.

>

> A budget is just not needed.

 

Ever thought that getting 400 gems every 5000 AP isn't something they want to expand on? Plus it would mess up the rest of the game completely. Season 1 gave us 3.4k AP and lasted 19 months (only the story parts). Now you want to get 4-5k a year just from the story? Why would they inflate Achievement Points so badly? Also, where do you get that 60k is the cap? Is it written somewhere that there is actually a cap in AP rewards and is not infinite? There are no rewards beyond 60k now because it makes no sense to have any, the biggest mistake Anet did with AP is releasing un-obtainable rewards on the wiki (or was it data mining?)

[Justine.6351]

Yeah maybe by the 10th anniversary in 2022 the top 100 people will be able to get their first radiant/hellfire backpacks lol... I'm brushing 25k AP and it will be guild wars 4 before I do.

[OriOri.8724]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > But rather from living world releases, it would take almost a year to get 1,000 AP even if the amount we got were doubled.

>

> Which is hardly relevant if we get 3000+ real AP in a year. If they increased the other methods of AP (the living world) then they'd have to reduce the amount you get from expansions or festivals (to keep their "budget" stable). It's the overall AP in a year that counts, as that's what would force them to create new AP rewards for higher numbers. Which is I suppose why they are not adding more AP to begin with, so they don't have to spend effort to create rewards for them.

>

> > Assume all LW AP was doubled. At around 130 AP per living world release in LWS4 on average, it would still take us 4 releases to see less than an extra 600 AP.

>

> This part is important:

> > It is our goal to prevent rapid inflation of players' achievement point totals.

>

> You are thinking of individual achievements, they are thinking of all of them as a whole. The question is if 3000 AP in a year is "enough" or not. Notice that if they awarded more AP per achievement, to keep the total number stable, they'd need to offer less achievements.

 

I disagree that they would have to reduce the amount of AP we are given elsewhere if they increase the AP from living world achievements. Note that a portion of the festival AP is one time only. Sure, the number sounds large when you add them all up in a single year, but the next year you won't be able to get that one time AP again. So its artificially inflated. Not to mention, in your original assessment, you lumped all of PoF in with everything else for the yearly total. HoT released 3 years after the game launched, and PoF was released 2 years after HoT. This is, so far, 1 expansion every 2.5 years (and we've been told that LWS5 will come before expac 3, so long term expect that ratio to drop to 1 expac every 3 years). So its **_incredibly_** misleading for you to them lump PoF AP in with the "yearly possible total" that we can get. If you want to do that, then divide it by 2.5 or 3 (2.5 is the average years between expansion releases up till PoF dropped. 3 comes from the fact that the game is 6 years old with 2 expansions). I'll use your PoF figure of 1,503 AP. This means that its **_yearly_** contribution is 501-601 AP. Or 1,000 less AP per year than you are claiming.

 

That's a really important fact that you forgot about. Expansions are not yearly releases. So when calculating average yearly possible AP gains, you cannot include the total sum of an expansions AP.

 

I agree that they are looking at it as a whole. However, "worst case" from their perspective is to double all AP gained from LW achievements. This would still only be an extra 600 or so AP every 4 LW releases. That is not rapid inflation. But that was "worst case". A limited number of lw achievements give AP that is already appropriate for the effort they require, so they can stay the same. Similarly, a number of them also give some sort of item, or title, or both in some cases, and that is plenty of reward. So those can also stay the same. By no means would Anet have to double the AP allotment for each episode just to make each achievement feel worth it in terms of effort vs AP gained, since a fair number already give items or titles. So, realistically, we would be looking at around 400 extra AP per every 4 LW releases. That's not a lot.

 

Then there is the issue of ANet having to make new rewards for AP tiers. However, also consider that the highest AP in the game right now is 38,2XX per the leaderboards. The last armor skin is handed out at 42,000 AP, and the next open slot for a non weapon skin is at 45,000 AP. Even if they doubled ALL of the AP we get in game, it would still take over a year for anyone to even come close to needing that new skin. But whenever we do get there, a single armor set is good for **42,000** AP. In all likelihood, GW3 will be developed before anyone comes anywhere close to that high AP. This is hardly a reason to avoid giving out AP. And an extra 400-600 AP per every 4 lw releases is not going to get us there significantly faster than the current rate we are getting there

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

I don't want to have to play for the next ten years to see myself getting that radiant back piece. Achievement points is just one of those things where the team fails. When I see excuses for something so simple to be fixed, I see a team that really doesn't want to seek ultimate greatness. At least the content is great. It could have been the other way around.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> Sure, the number sounds large when you add them all up in a single year, but the next year you won't be able to get that one time AP again. So its artificially inflated.

 

Which is what is important for a developer. It doesn't matter if those AP won't be available again, because at least some players will get them, inflate their total, and require new rewards to be added. Just because it's one-off doesn't mean anything.

 

> Not to mention, in your original assessment, you lumped all of PoF in with everything else for the yearly total. HoT released 3 years after the game launched, and PoF was released 2 years after HoT. This is, so far, 1 expansion every 2.5 years (and we've been told that LWS5 will come before expac 3, so long term expect that ratio to drop to 1 expac every 3 years). So its **_incredibly_** misleading for you to them lump PoF AP in with the "yearly possible total" that we can get. If you want to do that, then divide it by 2.5 or 3 (2.5 is the average years between expansion releases up till PoF dropped. 3 comes from the fact that the game is 6 years old with 2 expansions). I'll use your PoF figure of 1,503 AP. This means that its **_yearly_** contribution is 501-601 AP. Or 1,000 less AP per year than you are claiming.

 

Why would I divide it by anything? Do you know exactly when the next expansion will be released? Do you have any data on how many AP it will bring? The only thing we know is that since Path of Fire was released we got over 3000 AP in one year, which is triple your claim of 1000 per year. I'm not making any predictions, I'm only presenting the facts.

 

About my "estimate" of 3k per year:

3000 AP per year for 6 years = 18000 AP, 15000 from dailies = 33000 AP. The game was released with about 7537 AP which brings us the total of about 40000 AP which is close to the current absolute maximum number of AP (it's about 39k, top player on the leaderboards is missing some). So 3k per year is not only a very possible number, but appears like it's one that's used as a yearly budget as well because the numbers show it. Sure some years got more AP than others, for example there was a huge content drought before Heart of Thorns which caused 2015 to offer very few Achievements, but on average 3k per year isn't out of the question and in fact it's a number that is verified by the numbers.

[OriOri.8724]

@"maddoctor.2738" Again, you are deliberately misconstruing my argument and arguing against one that I have not made. I have already pointed this out to you, and you just flat out ignored that. I never once, not once, claimed that we can only get 1000 AP per year. Yet all of your replies are hinging on that, despite it being blatantly false, so I just won't reply to you anymore in this thread. I said it would take almost a year to get 1,000 AP from LW achievements. This is not remotely the argument that you claim I am making.

 

Secondly, for the second time, by including all PoF AP in a single year, you are arguing that every year we are going to get a PoF sized chunk of achievements, that are separate from LW, raid, fractal, and PvP releases. We know this is also blatantly false information. The game is 6 years old with 2 expansions. It was 2.5 years between expasions on average. Furthermore, we have been told by Anet themselves that LWS5 is coming before expansion 3. We know that we have a minimum of 1 more episode in LWS4 since the current living world story arc isn't finished, but realistically we have 2 more. Either way, a minimum of 2-3 months before LWS4 is finished, then we have to get through all of LWS 5 before the third expac. And**ONLY THEN** will we see another PoF sized chunk of achievements released into the game . So including all of PoF inside a yearly total is deliberately trying to twist the argument, and you're even doing that against an argument that I have not made, and have stressed that fact to you already in this thread.

[mtpelion.4562]

The point of AP in general, and AP reward tiers in particular, is to reward players for long term play. If players obtain them too quickly then they cease being an incentive (there is nothing left to do). Additionally, if players obtain them too slowly then they also cease being an incentive (there is no hope of completing them).

 

I'm guessing that after LWS1, they felt that the rate of AP acquisition was faster than intended so they scaled it back to the current cadence in order to keep average AP growth levels within their intended boundaries. This would account for the large discrepancy in AP between similar types of achievements.

[Etria.3642]

The new amounts are too low. ESPECIALLY because I and whoever else has come after the discontinued ones can NEVER get them. And someone above said those were _3726_ which is a LOT LOT LOT of points to never ever ever be able to get ever simply because I was not playing the game then.

 

There are a lot of irritating things swtor does but they set achieves you can no longer get to zero for everyone. They still show as 'complete' and you can link them to brag to others but they don't lopside the total.

 

Ie in gw2 an original player can earn x amount of points. A NEW player can only ever get x- discontinued points. I don't mind the titles and other things I can't get but the points themselves count toward achievements and rewards.

 

And yes. The amounts of late for a LOT of work are not comparable.

[Linken.6345]

I Agree they should add a seperate tracker were you can earn as many missing points as you need from the retired ap.

And if they add them later you can still do the thing and get zero ap but get titles etc.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> @"maddoctor.2738" Again, you are deliberately misconstruing my argument and arguing against one that I have not made. I have already pointed this out to you, and you just flat out ignored that. I never once, not once, claimed that we can only get 1000 AP per year. Yet all of your replies are hinging on that, despite it being blatantly false, so I just won't reply to you anymore in this thread. I said it would take almost a year to get 1,000 AP from LW achievements. This is not remotely the argument that you claim I am making.

 

I already said that how many AP you get from Living World alone is a pointless metric, that you continue to ignore it is really puzzling. There IS no argument about how many AP you get from Living World alone. It's the grand total you get per year that "counts", and that's what I pointed out. As developer you don't care about individual achievement rewards to satisfy the ego of a forum poster but instead see the big picture about the totals.

 

> Secondly, for the second time, by including all PoF AP in a single year, you are arguing that every year we are going to get a PoF sized chunk of achievements, that are separate from LW, raid, fractal, and PvP releases.

 

Again, for the second time, I included how many AP we got from PoF because that's the metric we currently have. I never claimed that we'd get that many every year, although the math does support that 3k per year on average is what we got so far. I will re-post it for you because you missed it:

 

> 3000 AP per year for 6 years = 18000 AP, 15000 from dailies = 33000 AP. The game was released with about 7537 AP which brings us the total of about 40000 AP which is close to the current absolute maximum number of AP

 

I also asked you to present us your information on when the next expansion will be released and how many AP it will provide, if you want to discuss the future, which I find pointless. I only discuss facts and I presented the facts, which you ignored.

 

> So including all of PoF inside a yearly total is deliberately trying to twist the argument, and you're even doing that against an argument that I have not made, and have stressed that fact to you already in this thread.

 

You gave an irrelevant argument, and continue to twist my own argument saying things that I never actually claimed. And you ignore the simple facts, to counter an argument I never made against an argument you never made but you say, I say you did. This is really silly if you think about it.

 

All while ignoring all the pure facts and focusing on the useless parts.

[Drecien.4508]

We need better skins for the AP points. The weapons are.... Meh