No downed WvW... Permanently

[Chaba.5410]

> @"Israel.7056" said:

> > @"Chaba.5410" said:

> > > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > > Please don't make these kinds of polls. They are just going to be skewed. Beyond the fact that one shot is a rampant thing and wvw is dependent on incomming new players to stay afloat.

> > >

> > > Way more trash than treasure on this forum no downed isn't ever going to win a straw poll here be serious.

> >

> > Polls are trash.

>

> Depends on how they're structured this one seems pretty simple to me.

 

This one is also trash. It is a typical non-randomized poll with loaded answers that reflect the author's base assumptions. The author isn't doing "research", he's just looking for people who agree with him. I never take these polls seriously. Anet should do away with the polling function on this forum all together, to be honest, because they are a form of petitioning.

[Curunen.8729]

Player goes down once and gets ressed/rallies => gains 10 minute debuff.

 

Debuff = the next time the player goes down within the timer, they bypass down state and die fully. Debuff cannot be removed or changed.

 

2 strike system, allows fun stomping and prevents endless res loops.

 

[Israel.7056]

> @"Chaba.5410" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > @"Chaba.5410" said:

> > > > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > > > Please don't make these kinds of polls. They are just going to be skewed. Beyond the fact that one shot is a rampant thing and wvw is dependent on incomming new players to stay afloat.

> > > >

> > > > Way more trash than treasure on this forum no downed isn't ever going to win a straw poll here be serious.

> > >

> > > Polls are trash.

> >

> > Depends on how they're structured this one seems pretty simple to me.

>

> This one is also trash. It is a typical non-randomized poll with loaded answers that reflect the author's base assumptions. The author isn't doing "research", he's just looking for people who agree with him. I never take these polls seriously. Anet should do away with the polling function on this forum all together, to be honest, because they are a form of petitioning.

 

Yeah the questions are definitely loaded youre right about that. I don't see the problem with petitioning they don't seem to care either way.

[Loosmaster.8263]

> @"Justine.6351" said:

> Please don't make these kinds of polls. They are just going to be skewed. Beyond the fact that one shot is a rampant thing and wvw is dependent on incomming new players to stay afloat.

 

Exactly. The cheese builds that down you so fast you're DD before your down skills even become available. So down state is really pointless...

[Justine.6351]

> @"Loosmaster.8263" said:

> > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > Please don't make these kinds of polls. They are just going to be skewed. Beyond the fact that one shot is a rampant thing and wvw is dependent on incomming new players to stay afloat.

>

> Exactly. The cheese builds that down you so fast you're DD before your down skills even become available. So down state is really pointless...

 

I find a lot of the times just watching your allies will present you with a couple options to protect them,

 

Who is repeatedly the target of one shot?

What do I have in my skill set to help them?

If they drop what type of stomp is the enemy going for and what can I do to counter it?

Is there something that I can do beyond ressing my Ally to rally them?

 

For just about every downed state scenario there is a way to counter it,

Rez faster, simply be on that Ally as they drop an immdiately start to Rez

Stealth Ally

Cc

Ally using movement downed state skill

Counter cleave

Combination of above

[Arlette.9684]

As much as I would **LOVE** having no downed state in WvW, it would make the game less inclusive. ANet won’t do it!

[Crazy.6029]

No thank you. It was ok for a week running around and bursting players down from stealth and but mainly I played soul beast which was king imo and that was fun too. But seriously, after a while its just like fps shooter game and just wasn't fun with the lack of counter play. IF you don't like downstate it is ok, but the game is balanced around it and it is core part of game play. Also, could we just stop with these NO DOWNSTATE..threads. Please. Really scared Anet will think these threads actually reflect the majority of the player base. :)

[Balthazzarr.1349]

Aside from annoying the people with zillions of finishers that they like to use...just leave it as it is... and I didn't answer the poll because frankly it's obviously geared toward staining people who want to keep the downstate... If we had a poll that actually had responses you could select that were clearly non-bias then that would be different.

 

Regardless... downstate hopefully will stay as it is since it's a pretty neat feature when it's YOU that needs rezzing without having to port now isn't it??.

[Dawdler.8521]

Biased poll options are biased. This isnt a poll, its just trying to make fun of people voting no.

 

No one should vote for anything.

[oOStaticOo.9467]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> Biased poll options are biased. This isnt a poll, its just trying to make fun of people voting no.

>

> No one should vote for anything.

 

Actually, everybody should vote exactly opposite of what he wants. That way we turn it around on him. lol.

[WraithOfStealth.1624]

Downed state is a mechanic that just adds more flavor to the game IMO and should not be removed ever.

 

I can see why people find it annoying to have someone you just downed get rezzed up (near) instantly by ~5 people in a blob, or even by just a lone revive trait + mercy runes firebrand which is included in a lot of 3-5 man "roaming" parties these days. On the other hand it's also very satisfying to narrowly save somebody from a stomp with a clutch CC or stealth etc. And as other posters have mentioned there is just too much burst in the game, a deadeye or other high burst class could just solo an entire party without downstate for example. Then you could say they deserve it for losing 5v1, but that's just making it too easy for roamers if you ask me.

 

So i'd be opposed to removal of downed state, but i wouldn't be against adding some limitations/risk increasing factors. After reading this thread, a few come to mind;

 

* Slower base revive speed to give players a larger chance at pulling off a stomp or to outdamage the revive speed.

* Lower cap on the amount of people who can revive you (1,2 or 3 players max depending on revive speed balance etc.)

* I like the idea by Curunen earlier in this thread to introduce a debuff that makes you instantly defeated when downed for a second time.

* A bit more extreme would be the removal of the rally system, so if you want to be revived your allies will have to take a larger risk and potentially enter AoE/player groups etc.

 

Thus, rather than removing a mechanic that sets the game apart from others in the genre and in my opinion adds more flavor to the game, i'd rather downed state gets a balance check.

 

Just my two cents.

 

 

[anduriell.6280]

> @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > Biased poll options are biased. This isnt a poll, its just trying to make fun of people voting no.

> > No one should vote for anything.

> Actually, everybody should vote exactly opposite of what he wants. That way we turn it around on him. lol.

Whoa the toxicty is escalating quickly there...

 

> @"WraithOfStealth.1624" said:

> * Slower base revive speed to give players a larger chance at pulling off a stomp or to outdamage the revive speed.

> * Lower cap on the amount of people who can revive you (1,2 or 3 players max depending on revive speed balance etc.)

> * **I like the idea by Curunen earlier in this thread to introduce a debuff that makes you instantly defeated when downed for a second time.**

> * A bit more extreme would be the removal of the rally system, so if you want to be revived your allies will have to take a larger risk and potentially enter AoE/player groups etc.

>

Um... I don't think it would help. If you get downed once you will die again pretty soon if the enemy kept you targeted. Which leads to the directly defeated state.

 

IMO the worst offender in wvw is the power ress. It was a problem when you could get power ressed from defeated state (Anet solved that) and is still a problem now, it only helps bigger comps.

A compromised solution would be the one nobody vote for (funny enough) : You get downed state but just for 5 seconds. During that time you can rally or benefit from self or allied skills to revive downed players but not from the "F to ress" (remove the action ress while in combat) . Thus downed players can still be ressed but at a cost. 5 seconds is enough time to stomp, rally or skill ress. And we avoid the _"because we are 3 to 1 we click 1 to win"_

 

IMO removing downstate would be perfect but i admit a middle ground solution would be also acceptable.

 

 

 

 

 

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"anduriell.6280" said:

> IMO the worst offender in wvw is the power ress. It was a problem when you could get power ressed from defeated state (Anet solved that) and is still a problem now, it only helps bigger comps.

> A compromised solution would be the one nobody vote for (funny enough) : You get downed state but just for 5 seconds. During that time you can rally or benefit from self or allied skills to revive downed players but not from the "F to ress" (remove the action ress while in combat) . Thus downed players can still be ressed but at a cost. 5 seconds is enough time to stomp, rally or skill ress. And we avoid the _"because we are 3 to 1 we click 1 to win"_

 

That would have a serious impact when fighting outnumbered where you need to choose whether to res or wait until you've distracted/ccd enemies or time cooldowns on their bomb.

 

People in favor of removing downstate only seem to consider black and white zerg ressing - which in practice usually only leads to more downed unless the enemy zerg consist of fools - instead of moments where ressing can be the difference between win or loss and has a major impact on the flow of GW2 combat. Lacking the skill to control downed isnt something to blaim downed state for.

 

Its unique among MMOs because Anet wanted us to cooporate. To feel like we can help each other. To play *together*. Thats why we've played it for 6 years now. Not because *lol instakill* is all there is but because you can say *grab my hand and we go fuck up that enemy*.

 

Anet already fixed downed state via 1:1 rally. Any changes would only hurt smallscale and wont matter for large scale.

[reddie.5861]

prefer to see rally removed from WvW.

either res or bleed to dead no self res either. so if your teamm8s let you bleed ur dead.

[Heartpains.7312]

I can add lots of examples why downstate must stay,

- Mesmers will kill something and run.

- thieves will kill something and run.

- Rangers will kill something and run.

- Engineers will kill something and run.

- Warriors will try to do the same.

And if they made it, I will prepare the traps DH or something group and just place traps or anything that I have hope that it can kill someone while I am being safe in tower or near tower or something.

 

Also I am not fond of being killed by one hit from stealth etc.

There are so many things that are broken, and trust me if it happens and they made it, many people will quit or stop bothering with wvw, I am someone who benefited from this event but had zero interest to play it, because most of the time I know that I can kill something and run ( and kill the rest after reset if possible) or just simply kill and go away. Could also avoid things that I didn't want to fight if I felt like it.

[LetoII.3782]

> @"Crazy.6029" said:

> No thank you. It was ok for a week running around and bursting players down from stealth and but mainly I played soul beast which was king imo and that was fun too. But seriously, after a while its just like fps shooter game and just wasn't fun with the lack of counter play. IF you don't like downstate it is ok, but the game is balanced around it and it is core part of game play. Also, could we just stop with these NO DOWNSTATE..threads. Please. Really scared Anet will think these threads actually reflect the majority of the player base. :)

 

Maybe they do

Not like it's the same person bringing it up over and over

[Zawn.9647]

> @"Heartpains.7312" said:

> I can add lots of examples why downstate must stay,

> - Mesmers will kill something and run.

> - thieves will kill something and run.

> - Rangers will kill something and run.

> - Engineers will kill something and run.

> - Warriors will try to do the same.

> And if they made it, I will prepare the traps DH or something group and just place traps or anything that I have hope that it can kill someone while I am being safe in tower or near tower or something.

>

> Also I am not fond of being killed by one hit from stealth etc.

> There are so many things that are broken, and trust me if it happens and they made it, many people will quit or stop bothering with wvw, I am someone who benefited from this event but had zero interest to play it, because most of the time I know that I can kill something and run ( and kill the rest after reset if possible) or just simply kill and go away. Could also avoid things that I didn't want to fight if I felt like it.

 

100% agree with you.

 

However I think downstate could see some changes in wvw such as:

- Slower rez or faster bleed

- No rally from kills, only through skill 4 and friendly rezzes

- Maybe a 20-40% damage increase to downed enemies so its easier to finish them but not "insta killed"

 

maybe some of these ideas would be a good fit

[Hackuuna.4085]

> @"Heartpains.7312" said:

> I can add lots of examples why downstate must stay,

> - Mesmers will kill something and run.

> - thieves will kill something and run.

> - Rangers will kill something and run.

> - Engineers will kill something and run.

> - Warriors will try to do the same.

> And if they made it, I will prepare the traps DH or something group and just place traps or anything that I have hope that it can kill someone while I am being safe in tower or near tower or something.

>

> Also I am not fond of being killed by one hit from stealth etc.

> There are so many things that are broken, and trust me if it happens and they made it, many people will quit or stop bothering with wvw, I am someone who benefited from this event but had zero interest to play it, because most of the time I know that I can kill something and run ( and kill the rest after reset if possible) or just simply kill and go away. Could also avoid things that I didn't want to fight if I felt like it.

 

So in these statements of x will kill something and run where do you figure you'll find the x on your side? Are they incapable of doing anything about it?

[Israel.7056]

I don't think I lost more than 2 or 3 fights 100-0 the entire no downed state weekend and I would've lost those fights just the same with downed state. The big difference was I won several outnumbered fights that probably would've been unwinnable normally. I even won a couple 1v4s because I got the jump on people. All in all id say it was well worth the trade off at least for someone like me.

[SoV.5139]

Blobs being able to raise downed and steam roll one shot builds seems to be the only consequence the one shot troll builds have to face in WvW. Keep downed state the way it is.

[Wisdom.4712]

No, it's fine the way it is.

 

No one cares that the person you downed rallied and helped kill you. It undermines a key scrapper mechanic and would invariably increase the prevalence of annoying oneshot gank builds.

[Brutal Augus.5917]

I would love it for my own biased reasons but it will probably never happen. I think it ultimately drives off more people than it helps to retain in the long run.

 

Also they sell finishers on the gem store so they'd have to reimburse everyone that bought one. It's doable but just further decreases the likelihood of it ever happening imo.

 

Edit: unless they keep finishers in another game mode or something, which even then would suck for the people that bought finishers specifically for WvW

[Kaspar.3892]

> @"Brutal Augus.5917" said:

> I would love it for my own biased reasons but it will probably never happen. I think it ultimately drives off more people than it helps to retain in the long run.

>

> Also they sell finishers on the gem store so they'd have to reimburse everyone that bought one. It's doable but just further decreases the likelihood of it ever happening imo.

>

> Edit: unless they keep finishers in another game mode or something, which even then would suck for the people that bought finishers specifically for WvW

 

Whoever gets the final blow on the player should have their finisher automatically applied to that kill. :D That would make fights quite entertaining when people die.

[Turk.5460]

I loved no-downstate and I think it should be a recurring weeklong event. I feel as though we should have 1 week a month have some sort of twist.

[Usagi.4835]

> @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > > Please don't make these kinds of polls. They are just going to be skewed. Beyond the fact that one shot is a rampant thing and wvw is dependent on incomming new players to stay afloat.

> > >

> > > Way more trash than treasure on this forum no downed isn't ever going to win a straw poll here be serious.

> >

> > Erm that is kind of what I'm saying. However, it could easily go DBL Poll and leave a large chunk of the community upset. Removal of downed state, no matter how attractive, will just polarize the community more with bunkers and glass cannons and little in between. Nothing good can really come from this type of poll, anet official or not.

> Right now the gamemode is bunkers and glasscanons, you can see that simply for the amount of threads talking about one shot builds. Bunkers firebrands and spellbreakers and glass canons weavers and scourges.

> Removing downed state would be good because full glass canons scourges and eles would shift to put some armor on it. You see there are only good things coming from no downstate in wvw.

>

> > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > Please don't make these kinds of polls. They are just going to be skewed. Beyond the fact that one shot is a rampant thing and wvw is dependent on incomming new players to stay afloat.

>

> The server i'm in has a healthy amount of newcomers and a decent amount of pugmanders. I don't know what you complain about Justine.

 

But what about glass soulbeasts? Separate topic but I'm having lots of fun on mine with triple bloodlust so far :blush: