Mirage/mesmer is OP?

[viquing.8254]

> @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

 

> No profession should be able to avoid being interrupted that much regardless of elite specialization.

Paradoxaly, mesmer, not having stability access and with cast time on skills higher than the meta average (no perma quickness for example.), are one of the easiest interruptable class currently. (and interruptable != lockdown.)

 

> @"mortrialus.3062" " said:

> Core mesmer hasn't been anywhere near close to meta since Heart of Thorns. It's a dead spec competitively and was barely a thing in PvE during Heart of Thorns. Like 26k dps barely hanging on to the meta of that era.

Actually coremes is not that bad in PvP.

It have the same evade uptime than mirage and don't have to choose between evade for ambush or evade to temporise. So if we leave apart jaunt and sword mobility, core mes isn't that bad.

 

> @"MithranArkanere.8957" said :

>That doesn't change the fact that no profession should have that much time of uniterruptiability.

Again in PvP mirage is under the average uniterruptiability general meta uptime when you compare to other stab/blocks (who permit them to do actions with no risks of being CCed.).

Just think about it, has lockdown builds ever be viable ? (the answer is no and it's not because mirage were on the meta.)

 

It's not I'm not about arguing but when the main argument isn't true it's hard to be constructive.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"viquing.8254" said:

> > @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

>

> > No profession should be able to avoid being interrupted that much regardless of elite specialization.

> Paradoxaly, mesmer, not having stability access and with cast time on skills higher than the meta average (no perma quickness for example.), are one of the easiest interruptable class currently. (and interruptable != lockdown.)

>

> > @"mortrialus.3062" " said:

> > Core mesmer hasn't been anywhere near close to meta since Heart of Thorns. It's a dead spec competitively and was barely a thing in PvE during Heart of Thorns. Like 26k dps barely hanging on to the meta of that era.

> Actually coremes is not that bad in PvP.

> It have the same evade uptime than mirage and don't have to choose between evade for ambush or evade to temporise. So if we leave apart jaunt and sword mobility, core mes isn't that bad.

>

> > @"MithranArkanere.8957" said :

> >That doesn't change the fact that no profession should have that much time of uniterruptiability.

> Again in PvP mirage is under the average uniterruptiability general meta uptime when you compare to other stab/blocks (who permit them to do actions with no risks of being CCed.).

> Just think about it, has lockdown builds ever be viable ? (the answer is no and it's not because mirage were on the meta.)

>

> It's not I'm not about arguing but when the main argument isn't true it's hard to be constructive.

 

Since Path of Fire I have seen exactly one core mesmer in a game in probably 1,000+ ranked games. I'm pretty much always in plat 1,2 and 3. I have seen mountains more of every other core spec in the game.

[tinyreborn.1938]

Core mesmer is garbage . Tried power core mesmer a bit in rankeds and it was goddamn terrible. Moderate burst (2 mantra blink ... just for that and holo get only 50% hp burst and nowhere near this OMG mlg oneshots), low survivability , low mobility. In fact Jaunt is enabler for mirage to be able to burst 'without' animations and no tells. Without jaunt mirage would be really weak and forced to play with sword regardless of build to have some gap closer ,at least on sword .

Only 'ok' core spec was hybrid scepter cuz scepter right now is really OP . images does tons of damage ,low cd block with really long 5 torment with 2 clones and decent damage .If core mesmer would have jaunt ,then I would say CORE MESMER iS NOT BAD xD

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

If mirage wouldn't be able to cast while evading than mirage cloak would be nothing but a worse dodge. Or are you purposing mirage cloak to be deleted and in that case what mechanic would you give mirage?

[viquing.8254]

> @"tinyreborn.1938" said:

>cuz scepter right now is really OP .

"cuz scepter is **on pair** with other class scepter".

And it does normal damage when you compare to other class cd/cast skills. :)

 

>Core mesmer is garbage

It isn't.

In direct damage, you basically trade jaunt mobility to mass invi (=> which have nice teamplay situations uses, particulary to help a focused mate.). You lose some damage too ofc.

In condi you say it, it's strong 1v1/holder.

For me if mirage didn't exists actually I should probably be on condicoremes.

[tinyreborn.1938]

> @"viquing.8254" said:

> > @"tinyreborn.1938" said:

> >cuz scepter right now is really OP .

> "cuz scepter is **on pair** with other class scepter".

> And it does normal damage when you compare to other class cd/cast skills. :)

>

> >Core mesmer is garbage

> It isn't.

> In direct damage, you basically trade jaunt mobility to mass invi (=> which have nice teamplay situations uses, particulary to help a focused mate.). You lose some damage too ofc.

> In condi you say it, it's strong 1v1/holder.

> For me if mirage didn't exists actually I should probably be on condicoremes.

 

Just on hybrid images does like 7k damage + confusions xd . Probably you are right. Rush/gs3 on war gs can do like 8-10k ,etc

Yet ,core condi mes condi output is relatively low compared to mirage , mirage ambushes with axe/staff are great and outside of that not much condi pressure . Current cleanses and such classes as holo/core guard/ s/d core thief and DE/soulbeast/warrior (who wouldnt?) should erase it with ease (on same level ofc)

You underestimate jaunt too much .Any core elite of mesmer is just bad TW/Moa 180s cd for...really meh effect... They didnt even reduce cd for moa when nerfed it 40% duration. Mass invis casting too long and 90s cd is kinda high for that skill .

[godofcows.2451]

Ofc it's broken. lol. You're not going to get any sympathy in this section of the forums though. Just enjoy the carebear posts.

[viquing.8254]

> @"tinyreborn.1938" said:

> You underestimate jaunt too much .Any core elite of mesmer is just bad TW/Moa 180s cd for...really meh effect... They didnt even reduce cd for moa when nerfed it 40% duration. Mass invis casting too long and 90s cd is kinda high for that skill .

We can't have core ulti good as long as chrono F5 work on it because it will be op. Cf : https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/57925/fix-blocking-design .

 

> @"godofcows.2451" said:

> Ofc it's broken. lol. You're not going to get any sympathy in this section of the forums though. Just enjoy the carebear posts.

Ofc it's not broken. lol. Thanks for the empty content post who permit a no reflexion response, it's relaxating.

Hint : mesmer forum section is the most masochistic group comparing to other sections when talking about their class.

 

[tinyreborn.1938]

> @"viquing.8254" said:

> > @"tinyreborn.1938" said:

> > You underestimate jaunt too much .Any core elite of mesmer is just bad TW/Moa 180s cd for...really meh effect... They didnt even reduce cd for moa when nerfed it 40% duration. Mass invis casting too long and 90s cd is kinda high for that skill .

> We can't have core ulti good as long as chrono F5 work on it because it will be op. Cf : https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/57925/fix-blocking-design .

>

> > @"godofcows.2451" said:

> > Ofc it's broken. lol. You're not going to get any sympathy in this section of the forums though. Just enjoy the carebear posts.

> Ofc it's not broken. lol. Thanks for the empty content post who permit a no reflexion response, it's relaxating.

> Hint : mesmer forum section is the most masochistic group comparing to other sections when talking about their class.

>

Do u remember what scourge got ?Curses traitline shroud 2 skill conver only 1 boon into condition if scourge equipped. Increase moa cd to ~150 if chrono equipped and core/mirage 120s. Time warp is dead now even in PVE ... Would be good to see completely dead elite skills to be reworked into new (for all classes)

[brappish.8715]

Is anyone here gold 3 --plat 2? or is this just a bunch of silver ranked people complaining about mes

 

[MrFoooster.8192]

buff chrono

[ErazorZ.5209]

Nerf everything mesmer. Mirage, Chrono AND mesmer.

 

The uptime defenses are broken. Anyone stating anything different will need to come with some evidence supporting there claims.

 

The magical 7 defensives basically make you immune to every sort of attack imaginable 20+ sec of not being able to take damage? and you mesmers still think its fine? lolol.

 

Added to that the difference between a mirage and a core mesmer is pure powercreep. No other elite spec has this much powercreep built into it, ofcourse you arent going to see any core mesmers when the elite spec is so much more overpowered! That doesnt mean the core spec is bad whatsoever.

 

I also see somuch hypocrisy in the mesmer forums. On one hand theyr like 'but this class can do this X and Y' and then you bring up what other classes cant do and there supreme cooldowns 'But we are talking about mesmer'

 

Theyr asking for buffs to stuff that is normalised, and any nerfs are automatically deemed a l2p issue.

Then some random mesmer starts QQing about how theyve been 'nerfed' somuch already. Like really? You really think just because your class has been shaved ever so marginally your not supposed to get hit with a balance hammer when your spec is STILL overperforming. (talking about how to presserve something broken)

 

Other classes and specs have been completely GUTTED when they overperformed.

 

Mesmer has seen none of these gutting stuff. Just small increments on nerfs wich ultimately do nothing, the biggest nerf was to portal and that was a cherry on the cake an extra utility mesmers could bring to auto recap any point with a team!

 

 

They can 1 shot during dodges... They are easy to use. And they have perma uptime defenses. How can you not see this class is broken?

 

Oh the glorious days when warriors 6 sec invurn was deemed broken. But ofc mesmer should never be hit ever with the 'powercreep of PoF' and keep there insane 20+ sec uptime godmode whilst being able to one shot.

 

Basically all i see new mesmers do is spam clones. once theyr targetted spam invurn, dodge to condi spam one shot, and blink into stealth. This is the EASIEST class mechanic they have ever introduced for something that has a 20+ sec uptime.

 

And mesmers are still saying there class isnt broken? lol.

 

You can dodge the burst easily, you can spot the reall mesmer easily. But with that uptime defense you will NEVER be able to punch through before going 100-0.

 

 

[Ramanthes.5916]

> @"ErazorZ.5209" said:

> Nerf everything mesmer. Mirage, Chrono AND mesmer.

 

Sure thing, buddy. As long as in the same patch thief gets erased from the game (have thief players receive a message "So-and-so was hanged for being a thieving bastard, here's some of his stuff").

 

If you get to make your irrational demands about a proff that is trashing you, I get to make mine against the one that trashes mesmer.

 

 

 

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

> @"ErazorZ.5209" said:

> Nerf everything mesmer. Mirage, Chrono AND mesmer.

>

> The uptime defenses are broken. Anyone stating anything different will need to come with some evidence supporting there claims.

>

> The magical 7 defensives basically make you immune to every sort of attack imaginable 20+ sec of not being able to take damage? and you mesmers still think its fine? lolol.

 

Care to explain your numbers? Specifically what single build has all this and, assuming you aren't claiming infinite invulnerability, what period of time/how often "20+ seconds of not being able to take damage" happens? By all means, let's get to the bottom of this.

 

> I also see somuch hypocrisy in the mesmer forums. On one hand theyr like 'but this class can do this X and Y' and then you bring up what other classes cant do and there supreme cooldowns 'But we are talking about mesmer'

>

> Theyr asking for buffs to stuff that is normalised, and any nerfs are automatically deemed a l2p issue.

> Then some random mesmer starts QQing about how theyve been 'nerfed' somuch already. Like really? You really think just because your class has been shaved ever so marginally your not supposed to get hit with a balance hammer when your spec is STILL overperforming. (talking about how to presserve something broken)

 

Actually, looking through the many--and there are many--"mesmer complaint threads" across the forums, the regular mesmer mains seem quite reasonable. Consistently calling for changes to specific things they freely admit are too much. They do also set the facts straight and seek clarification, like when someone claims mesmers coast along on 20+ seconds of damage immunity.

 

> They can **1 shot during dodges**... They are easy to use. And they have **perma uptime defenses**. How can you not see this class is broken?

 

Please elaborate on the specific skill/utility combos involved here. Being able to 1-shot during a dodge seems godlike indeed. As do "perma uptime defenses."

 

> Oh the glorious days when warriors 6 sec invurn was deemed broken. But ofc mesmer should never be hit ever with the 'powercreep of PoF' and keep there **insane 20+ sec uptime godmode whilst being able to one shot**.

 

Again, please elaborate on this.

 

> Basically all i see new mesmers do is spam clones. once theyr targetted spam invurn, dodge to condi spam one shot, and blink into stealth. This is the EASIEST class mechanic they have ever introduced for something that has a 20+ sec uptime.

 

So easy that all leaderboards are utterly dominated by mesmer specs?

 

On a side note, why do you hate mesmers so much? It's as if you were traumatized by one as a young child. :/

[KryTiKaL.3125]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> > > > > @"jportell.2197" said:

> > > > > > @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> > > > > > Mirage is utterly broken by design, and it will stay broken by design for as long as it can use skills while evading that were not designed to be used while evading.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Mirage should only be able to use while evading the same skills core mesmer can use while evading, like shatters and teleport, its deception skills, and ambushes.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nothing else should be usable while evading, because that translates in way too much uptime of uninterruptible skill activations.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That just has to stop.

> > > > >

> > > > > Then just delete the spec and start from the ground up. Seriously all these people whining about mirages when literally every class in the game gas built in skills to help deal with mirage be it resistance or insane condi clear.

> > > >

> > > > A landlord going "I am tired of the incessant whining of this one tenant, I'm going to burn the building!" when that tenant keeps going "We have to repair this pipe or the building will flood" is nothing but preposterous.

> > > > What you do is fix that pipe. Then go back to listen to the tenants again. Being a landlord is a full time job that never ends. And the whining will never end either.

> > > >

> > > > The issue is pretty simple: Mirages are meant to use some skills while evading to make it harder to determine which one is the real mirage. But what was done to allow them to do so also allowed them to use too many skills while evading.

> > > >

> > > > No profession should be able to avoid being interrupted that much regardless of elite specialization.

> > > >

> > > > The solution is simple. It only needs to lose the ability to use while evading skills not meant to be used while evading.

> > > >

> > > > Just that. Ambushes, deceptions, and any of the many core skills that can already be used while evading would be completely unaffected.

> > > > It'll be mostly skills like weapon phantasms with long activation times. To avoid getting those interrupted, mesmers have Distortion to become invulnerable, and quickness to activate them faster. That's the tool to use in that case.

> > >

> > > It was always meant to use any skill it wants while evading. Your suggestion would make mirage completely unviable in PvE and PvP.

> >

> > No, it would not. Imagine if warriors got 100% uptime for their stances. And someone came and said "That should not happen". Anyone saying that reducing the duration of warrior stances back to not having 100% uptime would make them completely unviable in PvE and PvP would be out of their mind.

> >

> > Core mesmer has survived for ages without that much uninterruptable uptime. They would not be losing anything that they should have.

>

> Mirage cloak is not comparable to permanent damage reversal with Defensive Stance that perhaps the most hyperbolic statement about balance I have ever heard.

>

> Core mesmer hasn't been anywhere near close to meta since Heart of Thorns. It's a dead spec competitively and was barely a thing in PvE during Heart of Thorns. Like 26k dps barely hanging on to the meta of that era.

 

Of course it hasn't been meta since HoT, and even then it was a bit questionable when compared against Chrono. Why? AoE "power creep" or just "AoE creep". What has the meta for Conquest consisted of over the years? And I mean really look back in time. What was strong?

 

Core GW2: Hambow, Bunker Guards, Terrormancer, condi kit Engi (yeah it was a thing), S/D ele, Trap Ranger

HoT: Berserker, DH and Bunker Guards, Celestial Avatar Druid, Chronophantasma Shatter Chrono, Support Tempest (typically that Auramancer build), Power or Celestial Scrapper

PoF: Spellbreaker, Firebrand, Scourge, Mirage, Holosmith

 

Notice the trend? The meta builds tended to have AoE *something* associated with it and it wasn't so bad early on, but as time has gone on more and more of it has been added with the Elite Specializations and yet Conquest, as a game mode, has remained entirely unchanged.

 

Thats why you don't see Core Mesmer anywhere near the meta because it has less AoE pressure than Mirage or even Chrono. Thats why Core Warrior is only really a mildly competent duelist in sPvP, thats why Core Necro is irrelevant because of much less AoE pressure, thats why Core Ele is nowhere to be seen, and so on.

 

Core Guard remains relevant really only because of the sustain and its burst is AoE (Shield of Wrath > Mighty Blow/Glacial Blow > Judge's Intervention > *optional* Smite Condition).

 

Mirage is an issue, certainly, and there have been suggestions made that would bring it more in line without making it completely irrelevant (imo ICD on Infinite Horizons and Mirage Cloak can't be used while CC'd), but ultimately sPvP balance is always going to be a nightmare because Conquest is just *old* and has not been updated to keep in line with all of the AoE that is getting vomited out during gameplay. Look at what happened with Spellbreaker when Full Counter's damage got dropped off a cliff. Fell way behind in terms of point pressure, they have since opted to use more direct damage and just use Full Counter as a defensive tool to proc Magebane Tether and its become more of a duelist and +1 option.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Not as "OP" as soulbeast in duel, but definitly easier to learn and master due to a large pack of utilities/sustain. The clone spam is the stupidest thing Anet could do to mesmer to improve it.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Let's all appreciate for a moment the player that's asking for core mesmer nerfs. One of the weakest core professions.

As for the 20sec invulnerability he saw either the thread in which a dude calls blind invuln or the other one with a video in which a dude spams distortion with the chaos trait and picks mirrors (and still fails to get 20sec invulnerability against a kitten npc).

[Apolo.5942]

Mesmer has been voted the most op class for the last 2 pvp seasons.

 

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/63182/most-op-class-dec-14-2018/p1

[phokus.8934]

> @"Apolo.5942" said:

> Mesmer has been voted the most op class for the last 2 pvp seasons.

>

> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/63182/most-op-class-dec-14-2018/p1

 

This means nothing, really. Mesmer will always be OP in the eyes of fair weather players, extreme casuals, and people who would rather complain on a forum than figuring out the class. Since day one people have been complaining because they can't distinguish between clones and the players and mash their keyboard with their head.

 

The complainers won't be satisfied unless Mesmer is completely gone from the game.

[ErazorZ.5209]

> @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:

> > @"ErazorZ.5209" said:

> > Nerf everything mesmer. Mirage, Chrono AND mesmer.

> >

> > The uptime defenses are broken. Anyone stating anything different will need to come with some evidence supporting there claims.

> >

> > The magical 7 defensives basically make you immune to every sort of attack imaginable 20+ sec of not being able to take damage? and you mesmers still think its fine? lolol.

>

> Care to explain your numbers? Specifically what single build has all this and, assuming you aren't claiming infinite invulnerability, what period of time/how often "20+ seconds of not being able to take damage" happens? By all means, let's get to the bottom of this.

>

> > I also see somuch hypocrisy in the mesmer forums. On one hand theyr like 'but this class can do this X and Y' and then you bring up what other classes cant do and there supreme cooldowns 'But we are talking about mesmer'

> >

> > Theyr asking for buffs to stuff that is normalised, and any nerfs are automatically deemed a l2p issue.

> > Then some random mesmer starts QQing about how theyve been 'nerfed' somuch already. Like really? You really think just because your class has been shaved ever so marginally your not supposed to get hit with a balance hammer when your spec is STILL overperforming. (talking about how to presserve something broken)

>

> Actually, looking through the many--and there are many--"mesmer complaint threads" across the forums, the regular mesmer mains seem quite reasonable. Consistently calling for changes to specific things they freely admit are too much. They do also set the facts straight and seek clarification, like when someone claims mesmers coast along on 20+ seconds of damage immunity.

>

> > They can **1 shot during dodges**... They are easy to use. And they have **perma uptime defenses**. How can you not see this class is broken?

>

> Please elaborate on the specific skill/utility combos involved here. Being able to 1-shot during a dodge seems godlike indeed. As do "perma uptime defenses."

>

> > Oh the glorious days when warriors 6 sec invurn was deemed broken. But ofc mesmer should never be hit ever with the 'powercreep of PoF' and keep there **insane 20+ sec uptime godmode whilst being able to one shot**.

>

> Again, please elaborate on this.

>

> > Basically all i see new mesmers do is spam clones. once theyr targetted spam invurn, dodge to condi spam one shot, and blink into stealth. This is the EASIEST class mechanic they have ever introduced for something that has a 20+ sec uptime.

>

> So easy that all leaderboards are utterly dominated by mesmer specs?

>

> On a side note, why do you hate mesmers so much? It's as if you were traumatized by one as a young child. :/

 

I think all mesmers should be aware of the magical 7 skills.

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Prestige (3 sec uptime) (30 sec cd)

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blink(30 sec cd)

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phase_Retreat(8sec cd traited)

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blurred_Frenzy(1 sec uptime) (10 sec cd)

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Distortion(1 sec uptime) (50 sec cd) (Distortion + mirage mirror traited +1 uptime) (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reformed_Mirage_Mirror)

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mass_Invisibility(5 sec uptimes) (90sec cd)

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Decoy(3 sec uptime) (40 sec cd)

 

 

Lets focus on uptimes first. 14seconds of being unable to get hit due to uptime of stealth + invurn + evade

Blurred frenzy is off cd after you open with it so add 1 sec to that, phase retreat is off cd aswell.

 

15 sec of being unable to be hit. +2(+1 from low phase retreat cooldown) teleports.

Phase retreat adds ATLEAST 2 seconds of not being able to be hit, every time you use it, due to leap + detarget.

phase retreat x2 = 4 seconds.

 

15+4= 19.

blink = 2 seconds ATLEAST aswell

19+2 = 21.

 

If mirage mirror is procced multiple times add 1 sec every proc.

add multiple access to dazes (1 sec each)

 

21+++ sec. of defensive uptimes.

 

 

 

 

[EpicTurtle.8571]

> @"ErazorZ.5209" said:

> > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:

> > > @"ErazorZ.5209" said:

> > > Nerf everything mesmer. Mirage, Chrono AND mesmer.

> > >

> > > The uptime defenses are broken. Anyone stating anything different will need to come with some evidence supporting there claims.

> > >

> > > The magical 7 defensives basically make you immune to every sort of attack imaginable 20+ sec of not being able to take damage? and you mesmers still think its fine? lolol.

> >

> > Care to explain your numbers? Specifically what single build has all this and, assuming you aren't claiming infinite invulnerability, what period of time/how often "20+ seconds of not being able to take damage" happens? By all means, let's get to the bottom of this.

> >

> > > I also see somuch hypocrisy in the mesmer forums. On one hand theyr like 'but this class can do this X and Y' and then you bring up what other classes cant do and there supreme cooldowns 'But we are talking about mesmer'

> > >

> > > Theyr asking for buffs to stuff that is normalised, and any nerfs are automatically deemed a l2p issue.

> > > Then some random mesmer starts QQing about how theyve been 'nerfed' somuch already. Like really? You really think just because your class has been shaved ever so marginally your not supposed to get hit with a balance hammer when your spec is STILL overperforming. (talking about how to presserve something broken)

> >

> > Actually, looking through the many--and there are many--"mesmer complaint threads" across the forums, the regular mesmer mains seem quite reasonable. Consistently calling for changes to specific things they freely admit are too much. They do also set the facts straight and seek clarification, like when someone claims mesmers coast along on 20+ seconds of damage immunity.

> >

> > > They can **1 shot during dodges**... They are easy to use. And they have **perma uptime defenses**. How can you not see this class is broken?

> >

> > Please elaborate on the specific skill/utility combos involved here. Being able to 1-shot during a dodge seems godlike indeed. As do "perma uptime defenses."

> >

> > > Oh the glorious days when warriors 6 sec invurn was deemed broken. But ofc mesmer should never be hit ever with the 'powercreep of PoF' and keep there **insane 20+ sec uptime godmode whilst being able to one shot**.

> >

> > Again, please elaborate on this.

> >

> > > Basically all i see new mesmers do is spam clones. once theyr targetted spam invurn, dodge to condi spam one shot, and blink into stealth. This is the EASIEST class mechanic they have ever introduced for something that has a 20+ sec uptime.

> >

> > So easy that all leaderboards are utterly dominated by mesmer specs?

> >

> > On a side note, why do you hate mesmers so much? It's as if you were traumatized by one as a young child. :/

>

> I think all mesmers should be aware of the magical 7 skills.

>

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Prestige (3 sec uptime) (30 sec cd)

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blink(30 sec cd)

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phase_Retreat(8sec cd traited)

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blurred_Frenzy(1 sec uptime) (10 sec cd)

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Distortion(1 sec uptime) (50 sec cd) (Distortion + mirage mirror traited +1 uptime) (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reformed_Mirage_Mirror)

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mass_Invisibility(5 sec uptimes) (90sec cd)

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Decoy(3 sec uptime) (40 sec cd)

>

>

> Lets focus on uptimes first. 14seconds of being unable to get hit due to uptime of stealth + invurn + evade

> Blurred frenzy is off cd after you open with it so add 1 sec to that, phase retreat is off cd aswell.

>

> 15 sec of being unable to be hit. +2(+1 from low phase retreat cooldown) teleports.

> Phase retreat adds ATLEAST 2 seconds of not being able to be hit, every time you use it, due to leap + detarget.

> phase retreat x2 = 4 seconds.

>

> 15+4= 19.

> blink = 2 seconds ATLEAST aswell

> 19+2 = 21.

>

> If mirage mirror is procced multiple times add 1 sec every proc.

> add multiple access to dazes (1 sec each)

>

> 21+++ sec. of defensive uptimes.

>

>

>

>

 

Did you actually link Mass Invisibility unironically? Your entire argument is based on the assumption that the Mirage is just going to string these all together in a largely inefficient and ineffective waste of skills.

[Solori.6025]

> @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> > @"ErazorZ.5209" said:

> > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:

> > > > @"ErazorZ.5209" said:

> > > > Nerf everything mesmer. Mirage, Chrono AND mesmer.

> > > >

> > > > The uptime defenses are broken. Anyone stating anything different will need to come with some evidence supporting there claims.

> > > >

> > > > The magical 7 defensives basically make you immune to every sort of attack imaginable 20+ sec of not being able to take damage? and you mesmers still think its fine? lolol.

> > >

> > > Care to explain your numbers? Specifically what single build has all this and, assuming you aren't claiming infinite invulnerability, what period of time/how often "20+ seconds of not being able to take damage" happens? By all means, let's get to the bottom of this.

> > >

> > > > I also see somuch hypocrisy in the mesmer forums. On one hand theyr like 'but this class can do this X and Y' and then you bring up what other classes cant do and there supreme cooldowns 'But we are talking about mesmer'

> > > >

> > > > Theyr asking for buffs to stuff that is normalised, and any nerfs are automatically deemed a l2p issue.

> > > > Then some random mesmer starts QQing about how theyve been 'nerfed' somuch already. Like really? You really think just because your class has been shaved ever so marginally your not supposed to get hit with a balance hammer when your spec is STILL overperforming. (talking about how to presserve something broken)

> > >

> > > Actually, looking through the many--and there are many--"mesmer complaint threads" across the forums, the regular mesmer mains seem quite reasonable. Consistently calling for changes to specific things they freely admit are too much. They do also set the facts straight and seek clarification, like when someone claims mesmers coast along on 20+ seconds of damage immunity.

> > >

> > > > They can **1 shot during dodges**... They are easy to use. And they have **perma uptime defenses**. How can you not see this class is broken?

> > >

> > > Please elaborate on the specific skill/utility combos involved here. Being able to 1-shot during a dodge seems godlike indeed. As do "perma uptime defenses."

> > >

> > > > Oh the glorious days when warriors 6 sec invurn was deemed broken. But ofc mesmer should never be hit ever with the 'powercreep of PoF' and keep there **insane 20+ sec uptime godmode whilst being able to one shot**.

> > >

> > > Again, please elaborate on this.

> > >

> > > > Basically all i see new mesmers do is spam clones. once theyr targetted spam invurn, dodge to condi spam one shot, and blink into stealth. This is the EASIEST class mechanic they have ever introduced for something that has a 20+ sec uptime.

> > >

> > > So easy that all leaderboards are utterly dominated by mesmer specs?

> > >

> > > On a side note, why do you hate mesmers so much? It's as if you were traumatized by one as a young child. :/

> >

> > I think all mesmers should be aware of the magical 7 skills.

> >

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Prestige (3 sec uptime) (30 sec cd)

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blink(30 sec cd)

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phase_Retreat(8sec cd traited)

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blurred_Frenzy(1 sec uptime) (10 sec cd)

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Distortion(1 sec uptime) (50 sec cd) (Distortion + mirage mirror traited +1 uptime) (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reformed_Mirage_Mirror)

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mass_Invisibility(5 sec uptimes) (90sec cd)

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Decoy(3 sec uptime) (40 sec cd)

> >

> >

> > Lets focus on uptimes first. 14seconds of being unable to get hit due to uptime of stealth + invurn + evade

> > Blurred frenzy is off cd after you open with it so add 1 sec to that, phase retreat is off cd aswell.

> >

> > 15 sec of being unable to be hit. +2(+1 from low phase retreat cooldown) teleports.

> > Phase retreat adds ATLEAST 2 seconds of not being able to be hit, every time you use it, due to leap + detarget.

> > phase retreat x2 = 4 seconds.

> >

> > 15+4= 19.

> > blink = 2 seconds ATLEAST aswell

> > 19+2 = 21.

> >

> > If mirage mirror is procced multiple times add 1 sec every proc.

> > add multiple access to dazes (1 sec each)

> >

> > 21+++ sec. of defensive uptimes.

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> Did you actually link Mass Invisibility unironically? Your entire argument is based on the assumption that the Mirage is just going to string these all together in a largely inefficient and ineffective waste of skills.

 

I think it's more interesting that decoy is there. On a different note I think it's awesome phase retreat is an imaginary 4s defensive skill.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> > > @"ErazorZ.5209" said:

> > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:

> > > > > @"ErazorZ.5209" said:

> > > > > Nerf everything mesmer. Mirage, Chrono AND mesmer.

> > > > >

> > > > > The uptime defenses are broken. Anyone stating anything different will need to come with some evidence supporting there claims.

> > > > >

> > > > > The magical 7 defensives basically make you immune to every sort of attack imaginable 20+ sec of not being able to take damage? and you mesmers still think its fine? lolol.

> > > >

> > > > Care to explain your numbers? Specifically what single build has all this and, assuming you aren't claiming infinite invulnerability, what period of time/how often "20+ seconds of not being able to take damage" happens? By all means, let's get to the bottom of this.

> > > >

> > > > > I also see somuch hypocrisy in the mesmer forums. On one hand theyr like 'but this class can do this X and Y' and then you bring up what other classes cant do and there supreme cooldowns 'But we are talking about mesmer'

> > > > >

> > > > > Theyr asking for buffs to stuff that is normalised, and any nerfs are automatically deemed a l2p issue.

> > > > > Then some random mesmer starts QQing about how theyve been 'nerfed' somuch already. Like really? You really think just because your class has been shaved ever so marginally your not supposed to get hit with a balance hammer when your spec is STILL overperforming. (talking about how to presserve something broken)

> > > >

> > > > Actually, looking through the many--and there are many--"mesmer complaint threads" across the forums, the regular mesmer mains seem quite reasonable. Consistently calling for changes to specific things they freely admit are too much. They do also set the facts straight and seek clarification, like when someone claims mesmers coast along on 20+ seconds of damage immunity.

> > > >

> > > > > They can **1 shot during dodges**... They are easy to use. And they have **perma uptime defenses**. How can you not see this class is broken?

> > > >

> > > > Please elaborate on the specific skill/utility combos involved here. Being able to 1-shot during a dodge seems godlike indeed. As do "perma uptime defenses."

> > > >

> > > > > Oh the glorious days when warriors 6 sec invurn was deemed broken. But ofc mesmer should never be hit ever with the 'powercreep of PoF' and keep there **insane 20+ sec uptime godmode whilst being able to one shot**.

> > > >

> > > > Again, please elaborate on this.

> > > >

> > > > > Basically all i see new mesmers do is spam clones. once theyr targetted spam invurn, dodge to condi spam one shot, and blink into stealth. This is the EASIEST class mechanic they have ever introduced for something that has a 20+ sec uptime.

> > > >

> > > > So easy that all leaderboards are utterly dominated by mesmer specs?

> > > >

> > > > On a side note, why do you hate mesmers so much? It's as if you were traumatized by one as a young child. :/

> > >

> > > I think all mesmers should be aware of the magical 7 skills.

> > >

> > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Prestige (3 sec uptime) (30 sec cd)

> > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blink(30 sec cd)

> > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phase_Retreat(8sec cd traited)

> > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blurred_Frenzy(1 sec uptime) (10 sec cd)

> > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Distortion(1 sec uptime) (50 sec cd) (Distortion + mirage mirror traited +1 uptime) (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reformed_Mirage_Mirror)

> > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mass_Invisibility(5 sec uptimes) (90sec cd)

> > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Decoy(3 sec uptime) (40 sec cd)

> > >

> > >

> > > Lets focus on uptimes first. 14seconds of being unable to get hit due to uptime of stealth + invurn + evade

> > > Blurred frenzy is off cd after you open with it so add 1 sec to that, phase retreat is off cd aswell.

> > >

> > > 15 sec of being unable to be hit. +2(+1 from low phase retreat cooldown) teleports.

> > > Phase retreat adds ATLEAST 2 seconds of not being able to be hit, every time you use it, due to leap + detarget.

> > > phase retreat x2 = 4 seconds.

> > >

> > > 15+4= 19.

> > > blink = 2 seconds ATLEAST aswell

> > > 19+2 = 21.

> > >

> > > If mirage mirror is procced multiple times add 1 sec every proc.

> > > add multiple access to dazes (1 sec each)

> > >

> > > 21+++ sec. of defensive uptimes.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Did you actually link Mass Invisibility unironically? Your entire argument is based on the assumption that the Mirage is just going to string these all together in a largely inefficient and ineffective waste of skills.

>

> I think it's more interesting that decoy is there. On a different note I think it's awesome phase retreat is an imaginary 4s defensive skill.

 

At this rate next patch it'll give us 25 vuln stacks and teleport us next to our target.

[Solori.6025]

> @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> > > > @"ErazorZ.5209" said:

> > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:

> > > > > > @"ErazorZ.5209" said:

> > > > > > Nerf everything mesmer. Mirage, Chrono AND mesmer.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The uptime defenses are broken. Anyone stating anything different will need to come with some evidence supporting there claims.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The magical 7 defensives basically make you immune to every sort of attack imaginable 20+ sec of not being able to take damage? and you mesmers still think its fine? lolol.

> > > > >

> > > > > Care to explain your numbers? Specifically what single build has all this and, assuming you aren't claiming infinite invulnerability, what period of time/how often "20+ seconds of not being able to take damage" happens? By all means, let's get to the bottom of this.

> > > > >

> > > > > > I also see somuch hypocrisy in the mesmer forums. On one hand theyr like 'but this class can do this X and Y' and then you bring up what other classes cant do and there supreme cooldowns 'But we are talking about mesmer'

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Theyr asking for buffs to stuff that is normalised, and any nerfs are automatically deemed a l2p issue.

> > > > > > Then some random mesmer starts QQing about how theyve been 'nerfed' somuch already. Like really? You really think just because your class has been shaved ever so marginally your not supposed to get hit with a balance hammer when your spec is STILL overperforming. (talking about how to presserve something broken)

> > > > >

> > > > > Actually, looking through the many--and there are many--"mesmer complaint threads" across the forums, the regular mesmer mains seem quite reasonable. Consistently calling for changes to specific things they freely admit are too much. They do also set the facts straight and seek clarification, like when someone claims mesmers coast along on 20+ seconds of damage immunity.

> > > > >

> > > > > > They can **1 shot during dodges**... They are easy to use. And they have **perma uptime defenses**. How can you not see this class is broken?

> > > > >

> > > > > Please elaborate on the specific skill/utility combos involved here. Being able to 1-shot during a dodge seems godlike indeed. As do "perma uptime defenses."

> > > > >

> > > > > > Oh the glorious days when warriors 6 sec invurn was deemed broken. But ofc mesmer should never be hit ever with the 'powercreep of PoF' and keep there **insane 20+ sec uptime godmode whilst being able to one shot**.

> > > > >

> > > > > Again, please elaborate on this.

> > > > >

> > > > > > Basically all i see new mesmers do is spam clones. once theyr targetted spam invurn, dodge to condi spam one shot, and blink into stealth. This is the EASIEST class mechanic they have ever introduced for something that has a 20+ sec uptime.

> > > > >

> > > > > So easy that all leaderboards are utterly dominated by mesmer specs?

> > > > >

> > > > > On a side note, why do you hate mesmers so much? It's as if you were traumatized by one as a young child. :/

> > > >

> > > > I think all mesmers should be aware of the magical 7 skills.

> > > >

> > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Prestige (3 sec uptime) (30 sec cd)

> > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blink(30 sec cd)

> > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phase_Retreat(8sec cd traited)

> > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blurred_Frenzy(1 sec uptime) (10 sec cd)

> > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Distortion(1 sec uptime) (50 sec cd) (Distortion + mirage mirror traited +1 uptime) (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reformed_Mirage_Mirror)

> > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mass_Invisibility(5 sec uptimes) (90sec cd)

> > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Decoy(3 sec uptime) (40 sec cd)

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Lets focus on uptimes first. 14seconds of being unable to get hit due to uptime of stealth + invurn + evade

> > > > Blurred frenzy is off cd after you open with it so add 1 sec to that, phase retreat is off cd aswell.

> > > >

> > > > 15 sec of being unable to be hit. +2(+1 from low phase retreat cooldown) teleports.

> > > > Phase retreat adds ATLEAST 2 seconds of not being able to be hit, every time you use it, due to leap + detarget.

> > > > phase retreat x2 = 4 seconds.

> > > >

> > > > 15+4= 19.

> > > > blink = 2 seconds ATLEAST aswell

> > > > 19+2 = 21.

> > > >

> > > > If mirage mirror is procced multiple times add 1 sec every proc.

> > > > add multiple access to dazes (1 sec each)

> > > >

> > > > 21+++ sec. of defensive uptimes.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Did you actually link Mass Invisibility uniskill.ly? Your entire argument is based on the assumption that the Mirage is just going to string these all together in a largely inefficient and ineffective waste of skills.

> >

> > I think it's more interesting that decoy is there. On a different note I think it's awesome phase retreat is an imaginary 4s defensive skill.

>

> At this rate next patch it'll give us 25 vuln stacks and teleport us next to our target.

 

lol probably. Funny that core skills from 2012 are now a problem in 2019. I bet if mesmer got a kit like sustain weaver people would still complain. Owell, here's to hoping the devs are smart enough to sift through nonsense like this and address actual issues

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

> @"ErazorZ.5209" said:

> > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:

> > > @"ErazorZ.5209" said:

> > > Nerf everything mesmer. Mirage, Chrono AND mesmer.

> > >

> > > The uptime defenses are broken. Anyone stating anything different will need to come with some evidence supporting there claims.

> > >

> > > The magical 7 defensives basically make you immune to every sort of attack imaginable 20+ sec of not being able to take damage? and you mesmers still think its fine? lolol.

> >

> > Care to explain your numbers? Specifically what single build has all this and, assuming you aren't claiming infinite invulnerability, what period of time/how often "20+ seconds of not being able to take damage" happens? By all means, let's get to the bottom of this.

> >

> > > I also see somuch hypocrisy in the mesmer forums. On one hand theyr like 'but this class can do this X and Y' and then you bring up what other classes cant do and there supreme cooldowns 'But we are talking about mesmer'

> > >

> > > Theyr asking for buffs to stuff that is normalised, and any nerfs are automatically deemed a l2p issue.

> > > Then some random mesmer starts QQing about how theyve been 'nerfed' somuch already. Like really? You really think just because your class has been shaved ever so marginally your not supposed to get hit with a balance hammer when your spec is STILL overperforming. (talking about how to presserve something broken)

> >

> > Actually, looking through the many--and there are many--"mesmer complaint threads" across the forums, the regular mesmer mains seem quite reasonable. Consistently calling for changes to specific things they freely admit are too much. They do also set the facts straight and seek clarification, like when someone claims mesmers coast along on 20+ seconds of damage immunity.

> >

> > > They can **1 shot during dodges**... They are easy to use. And they have **perma uptime defenses**. How can you not see this class is broken?

> >

> > Please elaborate on the specific skill/utility combos involved here. Being able to 1-shot during a dodge seems godlike indeed. As do "perma uptime defenses."

> >

> > > Oh the glorious days when warriors 6 sec invurn was deemed broken. But ofc mesmer should never be hit ever with the 'powercreep of PoF' and keep there **insane 20+ sec uptime godmode whilst being able to one shot**.

> >

> > Again, please elaborate on this.

> >

> > > Basically all i see new mesmers do is spam clones. once theyr targetted spam invurn, dodge to condi spam one shot, and blink into stealth. This is the EASIEST class mechanic they have ever introduced for something that has a 20+ sec uptime.

> >

> > So easy that all leaderboards are utterly dominated by mesmer specs?

> >

> > On a side note, why do you hate mesmers so much? It's as if you were traumatized by one as a young child. :/

>

> I think all mesmers should be aware of the magical 7 skills.

>

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Prestige (3 sec uptime) (30 sec cd)

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blink(30 sec cd)

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phase_Retreat(8sec cd traited)

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blurred_Frenzy(1 sec uptime) (10 sec cd)

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Distortion(1 sec uptime) (50 sec cd) (Distortion + mirage mirror traited +1 uptime) (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reformed_Mirage_Mirror)

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mass_Invisibility(5 sec uptimes) (90sec cd)

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Decoy(3 sec uptime) (40 sec cd)

>

>

> Lets focus on uptimes first. 14seconds of being unable to get hit due to uptime of stealth + invurn + evade

> Blurred frenzy is off cd after you open with it so add 1 sec to that, phase retreat is off cd aswell.

>

> 15 sec of being unable to be hit. +2(+1 from low phase retreat cooldown) teleports.

> Phase retreat adds ATLEAST 2 seconds of not being able to be hit, every time you use it, due to leap + detarget.

> phase retreat x2 = 4 seconds.

>

> 15+4= 19.

> blink = 2 seconds ATLEAST aswell

> 19+2 = 21.

>

> If mirage mirror is procced multiple times add 1 sec every proc.

> add multiple access to dazes (1 sec each)

>

> 21+++ sec. of defensive uptimes.

>

>

>

>

 

* "21+++ sec. of defensive uptimes," while quite misleading as you define it above, is still not the same as what you repeated in your previous post: "20+ seconds of not being able to take damage", "20+ seconds of damage immunity", and "insane 20+ sec uptime godmode whilst being able to one shot." Are you changing your original claims?

* Stealth is not invulnerability. Minus 3 seconds for The Prestige, 5 seconds for Mass Invisibility (which by the way, literally no one uses), and 3 seconds for Decoy.

* Blink and Phase Retreat offer mobility, not invulnerability or detarget. No different from comparable skills in other professions like [shadowstep](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadowstep "Shadowstep"), and inferior to [swoop](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Swoop "Swoop").

* Speaking of "one shot", you never addressed this: "They can 1 shot during dodges." Feel free to explain.

* A build comprised of sword/torch + staff has inferior damage output. So if your goal was to assemble an assortment of weapons, traits, and utilities that maybe allow one to run, hide, and do almost no damage, you somewhat succeeded. But seeing as no one plays such a build, it's also pretty irrelevant.