Raids in 2k18 became farm fiesta. Remove rewards from the old wings finally. And fix it, please

[Cyninja.2954]

So let's address the elephant in the room, how are we going to deal with past builds and balancing which made content significantly easier temporarily?

 

- 66% Alacrity

- 55k+ dps builds

- Multiple hits on large boss targets from fields (hello berserker warriors breaking Gorse)

- Mesmer distortion

- better Druid support and heal

- revenant 50% boon duration

- etc.

 

Topic creator makes 1 fatal assumption: that all difficulty decrease is plain due to power creep of classes.

 

While some of that is true due to rebalanced and new elite specializations, most power creep has come due to changes to mechanics and equalization of damage builds as well as increased number of dps spots available. The rest is due to better tactics and organization from the raid community.

 

There have been severely more powerful builds available in game compaired to current available builds as far back as beginning of HoT. The majority of the player base simply did not make use of them because the raid community was in an infant stage. Thus the assumption that reduction in rewards is warrented is basically flawed.

 

TL;DR: the proposed solution to a at best minor problem shows the lack of TCS understanding of both the current and past raid metals and balance.

[NotOverlyCheesy.9427]

Perfecting a fight and getting rewarded for it is totally deserved imo. I can see new raiders having way more trouble with VG than with siege or Cairn so reducing loot for older wings doesn’t seem justified. I like the fact that each raid stays relevant no matter how old the content is because the damage range is kept about the same.

[Aeolus.3615]

Master to perfection the bosses while they are jsut health sponges with same aoe atacks mostly.... lol where just a positioning w/o moving much and keep spamming skills(mashing keyboard is actually what is most needed) its all what is required to master it...

 

Mobs need more mechanics in this game like remnove condis, use prot, dodges, remove boons from players.. until then is just a mash up your keyboard and keep stacking...

 

TDLR:gw2 pve....what else?

[Linken.6345]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> Master to perfection the bosses while they are jsut health sponges with same aoe atacks mostly.... lol where just a positioning w/o moving much and keep spamming skills(mashing keyboard is actually what is most needed) its all what is required to master it...

>

> Mobs need more mechanics in this game like remnove condis, use prot, dodges, remove boons from players.. until then is just a mash up your keyboard and keep stacking...

>

> TDLR:gw2 pve....what else?

 

So you want to nerf condi damage by having the bosses remove them what about power damage?

Will it go temprarily immune to power damage for a minute randomly aswell?

Protection wont work since it will be removed by corrupt or mesmer sword aa.

 

Dodges punish both condi and power equaly so thats a good idea.

[Grogba.6204]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

 

> - 66% Alacrity

> - 55k+ dps builds

> - Multiple hits on large boss targets from fields (hello berserker warriors breaking Gorse)

> - Mesmer distortion

> - better Druid support and heal

> - revenant 50% boon duration

> - etc.

 

- Epidemic bouncing

- Ele Scepter hitting 12 times

- "Shadow Flare" (more of a bug but saw more play than the equally bugged Glyph of Elements affecting every Tempest)

 

But I agree, it's like people either forget or don't check how things were in the past compared to how things are now.

[Xar.1387]

Making raiders leave the game because of farm fiesta rather than pushing more effort into progression certainly wont help this mode for a longer period of time.

it is obvious that raids wont be for everyone. That's their definition. And wont be that popular as story or open world pve. Its nothing new.

It wont be "raids" anymore if it happen but just another place to farm.

Theyre's alot of different content to do for those ppl. Game is full of it. While raids should bring more ppl which wants to raid. And likes it. Rather than making them leave.

Raiding scene wont survive without people like that. Casuals wont do it cause they will just leave after they farm everything they want. They will not increase the raiding population. it's only for a moment.

 

in the worst case scenario it will end similar to PvP :/ There's no competition at all. No pvp scene. Its just farm fiesta.

This mode is full of PvE players. And real PvP players already left the game. Raids may end similar if Anet wont change their direction. Raids will be full of farming ppl. And no more challengies. Cause there will be no place for them anymore.

 

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Xar.1387" said:

> Making raiders leave the game because of farm fiesta rather than pushing more effort into progression certainly wont help this mode for a longer period of time.

 

Raiders are leaving the game due to lack of content. I'd actually argue that having well know past content available keeps presence up and helps new players access raids.

 

> @"Xar.1387" said:

> it is obvious that raids wont be for everyone. That's their definition. And wont be that popular as story or open world pve. Its nothing new.

> It wont be "raids" anymore if it happen but just another place to farm.

 

Raids have been farm content for ages to experienced players. Only because you are done with your goodies and don't want others to have the same rewards is no reason to reduce rewards.

 

> @"Xar.1387" said:

> Theyre's alot of different content to do for those ppl. Game is full of it. While raids should bring more ppl which wants to

> Raiding scene wont survive without people like that. Casuals wont do it cause they will just leave after they farm everything they want.

 

I'm part of the raiding scene. If people with your attitude left the game we would not be any worse off.

[Xar.1387]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> Raids have been farm content for ages to experienced players. Only because you are done with your goodies and don't want others to have the same rewards is no reason to reduce rewards.

 

I know it very well. Believe me. But more time passes and ArenaNet do nothing about it. It makes more people leave. And it is just becoming more and more visible.

 

> Raiders are leaving the game due to lack of content

 

I know that too. As u can see I wrote alot about that in this thread.

 

[Dante.1763]

> @"Xar.1387" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > Raids have been farm content for ages to experienced players. Only because you are done with your goodies and don't want others to have the same rewards is no reason to reduce rewards.

>

> I know it very well. Believe me. But more time passes and ArenaNet do nothing about it. It makes more people leave. And it is just becoming more and more visible.

>

> > Raiders are leaving the game due to lack of content

>

> I know that too. As u can see I wrote about that alot in this thread.

>

 

Anet doesnt do anything about it because the people who do raids are small population compared to the game and not what the game is targetted towards, that will never change, Raids will *never* be anets focus because of the nature of the game, and who they market it towards(casual/easy going players), removing rewards will do nothing but decrease the already low population even further.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Xar.1387" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > Raids have been farm content for ages to experienced players. Only because you are done with your goodies and don't want others to have the same rewards is no reason to reduce rewards.

>

> I know it very well. Believe me. But more time passes and ArenaNet do nothing about it. It makes more people leave. And it is just becoming more and more visible.

>

> > Raiders are leaving the game due to lack of content

>

> I know that too. As u can see I wrote about that alot in this thread.

>

 

Then don't sideline the problem with not relevant stuff and especially things which are a detriment to your fellow player.

 

New raid content releases will not increase by removing incentives to play any raid content, on the contrary.

 

Gold rewards for past wings are absolutely irrelevant to veteran raiders. They are irrelevant scale wise to the games economy. Nerfing them is plain spite.

[Xar.1387]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"Xar.1387" said:

> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > Raids have been farm content for ages to experienced players. Only because you are done with your goodies and don't want others to have the same rewards is no reason to reduce rewards.

> >

> > I know it very well. Believe me. But more time passes and ArenaNet do nothing about it. It makes more people leave. And it is just becoming more and more visible.

> >

> > > Raiders are leaving the game due to lack of content

> >

> > I know that too. As u can see I wrote about that alot in this thread.

> >

>

> Anet doesnt do anything about it because the people who do raids are small population compared to the game and not what the game is targetted towards, that will never change, Raids will *never* be anets focus because of the nature of the game, and who they market it towards(casual/easy going players), removing rewards will do nothing but decrease the already low population even further.

 

And small population is why? Because they dont do anything about it. Population wont rise magically xD without a reason... It requires hard work.

[Amineo.8951]

Why people aren't doing W5 and W6: Killproofs groups, that's it. I understand that Dhuum is the hardest boss in the game but for W6 it should not be the case since it's between W3 and W4 in terms of difficulty after watching the fights.

 

That's like Fractal 100CM, I used to do it a while ago and now can't because there aren't any groups asking for less than 50 KP now (have 30 I think) when with all the power creep we got now it became considerably easier than when it came out.

[Xar.1387]

ArenaNet is almost 20 years old company.They're not new at all. GW2 release was very successful. HoT and PoF too.

And u want to tell me that experienced company as them got problems with creating raid wings regularly? xD

Its kind of pathetic O.o tbh

 

[MithranArkanere.8957]

This is not how things work. This is GW2, not some other mmo with increasing level caps and mechanics that are constantly changing for no good reason.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Xar.1387" said:

> > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > @"Xar.1387" said:

> > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > Raids have been farm content for ages to experienced players. Only because you are done with your goodies and don't want others to have the same rewards is no reason to reduce rewards.

> > >

> > > I know it very well. Believe me. But more time passes and ArenaNet do nothing about it. It makes more people leave. And it is just becoming more and more visible.

> > >

> > > > Raiders are leaving the game due to lack of content

> > >

> > > I know that too. As u can see I wrote about that alot in this thread.

> > >

> >

> > Anet doesnt do anything about it because the people who do raids are small population compared to the game and not what the game is targetted towards, that will never change, Raids will *never* be anets focus because of the nature of the game, and who they market it towards(casual/easy going players), removing rewards will do nothing but decrease the already low population even further.

>

> And small population is why? Because they dont do anything about it. Population wont rise magically xD without a reason... It requires hard work.

 

Population is small because this game is not meant to be a difficult game and it doesn't attract that kind of population that wants to do hard content, nor will it ever be such a game.

 

Removing rewards will do nothing but shrink the population, i think that point is going over your head.

 

> @"Xar.1387" said:

> ArenaNet is almost 20 years old company.They're not new at all. GW2 release was very successful. HoT and PoF too.

> And u want to tell me that experienced company as them got problems with creating raid wings regularly? xD

> Its kind of pathetic O.o tbh

>

 

They wont speed up something thats meant to be played by such a small segment of the population. Raids will *NEVER* be the primary focus of development for this game, if you want it to be, you are playing the wrong game and should look elsewhere.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

> @"Xar.1387" said:

> ArenaNet is almost 20 years old company.They're not new at all. GW2 release was very successful. HoT and PoF too.

> And u want to tell me that experienced company as them got problems with creating raid wings regularly? xD

> Its kind of pathetic O.o tbh

>

 

Anet was a studio they got maybe 10 or 20 making raids old raids dont affect that. Some people still got leggy to get so according to you that amor should be made unobtainable like all other items then you done it once. Raids arent farmed since its weekly so people wanting leggy amor do all wings on monday mostly and then do something else rest of the time

[reddie.5861]

> @"Xar.1387" said:

> I feel like raids turns into dungeons in 2018. And it became a farm fiesta. There's alot of old bosses and wings that community mastered to perfection. Even doing it lowman etc, etc. And right now its more like farming easy things to get gold and stuff, rather than looking for challengies. Alot of people skip hard things, cause there's no reason to do it. Because they just can select easier (old) bosses and wings to get rewards (gold, loot etc etc). Its because reward and progression systems in Guild Wars 2 are very different from those in other mmorpg's. Here's no gear progression. So e.g gold is main reward because of that.

>

> I would love to see more focus on the new things. Like new raid wings and new bosses. Faster than once per year. Progression, rather than farming old bosses again and again.

>

> That's why IMO ArenaNet should delete rewards like gold and loot from old wings. Because its very, very old content. People should do it just for achievements, and stuff like that. If they're new and still dont have it. Or if they wants to do legendary armor and things like that. But why loot? Its not new content anymore.

 

wait.

I dont do PvE neither i really care if u remove loot.

but honestly, who the hell cares about AP? if i would turn away from what i do now and go for pve i would still not do anything that doesnt yield me something.

AP to me is most stupid thing added in this game it means nothing to me neither i care about how much i got or some1 else has got.

so by doing what u want is not gonna fix anything.

if u just limit the instance to onces a day? or maybe its already then who cares if not put limit on it and get done with it.

 

dunno how raids work but if u just have easy/medium/hard mode just put limit to 3 raids and 3 different raids

if raid X is done on easy, you cant do raid X anymore on medium/hard so youll have to do Y and Z.

 

tho i dunno wtf im doing here :D never done a raid never will do one either so at the end i dont really care what chance is gonna be done

[Klipso.8653]

If you're looking for challenge, join a WvW guild. There's nothing challenging about memorizing a pre-scripted dance routine.

[Xar.1387]

By the way. I dont think creating more wings per year is that big problem for them. They could do it easly. Like 3 per year.

 

youtube.com/watch?v=tM8cgQ42bMQ&feature=youtu.be&t=1015

(they were talking about 6)

 

Imo its more about rewarding system that stops them. That's the main problem. Anet probably thinks how to fix it (at least I hope so).

Its first mmorpg with problem like that.

With current system they simply cant create 2much wings In a short period of time.

Even if u look at W5 rewards - there were just LI at the begining. And they changed it for LD after alot of months.

It shows that they dont have any solid plan for rewards if it comes to raids. Just improvisation

[Walhalla.5473]

Sooo, let me get this straight. OP wants to get more people into raids by removing rewards of old raid wings which would make sure that less and less people raid?

 

What kind of logic is this?

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

> @"Xar.1387" said:

> > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > Well this isn't every other MMO, this is GW2.

> >

>

> Exactly. And other mmorpg's dont have that problem at all. Cause there's gear treadmill.

> Just GW2 got this problem

>

> ------

>

> IMO good solution for Anet is to delete rewards like loot and gold from old wings.

> Just leave achievements there. Cause new people should be able to do it if they want. Why not.

>

> And focus more on the new raid wings. Release it much faster than 1 per year.

>

 

I still not get it: why?

 

does it hurt you in any way when players late to raids get rewards from them? No? Then why take it from them? I would have some explanations for that, but I don't want this post to be deleted.

[Xar.1387]

As we all know - having small amout of raiding content isnt something good.

But most people simply dont notice that having 2much active content isnt something good too.

It must be balanced.

 

Right now we got alot of content if it comes to the raids. But its not quality content. It just becomes "farm fiesta".

[Laila Lightness.8742]

> @"Xar.1387" said:

> By the way. I dont think creating more wings per year is that big problem for them. They could do it easly. Like 3 per year.

>

> youtube.com/watch?v=tM8cgQ42bMQ&feature=youtu.be&t=1015

> (they were talking about 6)

>

> Imo its more about rewarding system that stops them. That's the main problem. Anet probably thinks how to fix it (at least I hope so).

> Its first mmorpg with problem like that.

> With current system they simply cant create 2much wings In a short period of time.

> Even if u look at W5 rewards - there were just LI at the begining. And they changed it for LD after alot of months.

> It shows that they dont have any solid plan for rewards if it comes to raids. Just improvisation

 

You do still not hear the new things is pof only they are not connected with hot ones. You want rewards gone so what will it do anet stops releasing open world content and. The farm dont harm the devlopment. The most challeging oponment you can find is other players. Since you are deadset in removing the hot raids since no rewards means no legendery amor. Wich means no point having them. For you cant earn enough li s without being able to play these wings weekly

[Dante.1763]

> @"Walhalla.5473" said:

> Sooo, let me get this straight. OP wants to get more people into raids by removing rewards of old raid wings which would make sure that less and less people raid?

>

> What kind of logic is this?

 

He also wants more raids per year, but doesnt realize 1.) raid players a small part of the populace, and as such will never have more than a few raid wings per year added, and 2.) that removing the rewards from old raids will kill off the population of new people who would join, and would leave such a small pool of players doing raids that eventually theyd die off and wouldnt be made anymore.

[Xar.1387]

> @"Klipso.8653" said:

> If you're looking for challenge, join a WvW guild. There's nothing challenging about memorizing a pre-scripted dance routine.

 

WvW / Challenge

Pick one >:P

Sorry, but I prefer real PvP and esports rather than massive pvp mode called 'wvw' where responsibility is in the background

 

The most important time of raiding is progress. Not farm. And yes - its challenging. First kills etc, etc.

IMO less challenging than real PvP and esports ofc, but still