early warning

[DaVid Darksoul.4985]

During fights it is imperative to know when your opponent will attack and what attack they will use, most skills have lead-ups that tell you this. Unfortunately stealth takes this fairness away which is awesome for those in stealth, that's less play skill they need to win. But for their opponents it's very unfair, add to that the ability to attack from range while under stealth it becomes merely a matter of waiting to wp after death. What would be fair is that in order to attack or stake a downed you must come out of stealth first, and if hit you drop from stealth. I believe stealth was intended as an evasive action or to set up positioning, not as a "ha-ha, you suck cause you cant see me" action.

[LaGranse.8652]

I'm fine with stealth attacks not having any tells. A stealth attack would have come unexpectedly for a defender with no big real tell. The problem in my opinion is how reentering stealth is implemented. After having been struck the defender will be on high alert and keep their eyes on the attacker.

 

The ability to reenter stealth must be there as one of the core thief mechanics is stealth attacks, the 3 seconds of revealed is there to prevent them from reentering stealth right away however it would be cool if line of sight and/or something like blindness had a part to play in making the opponent lose track of the attacker.

[Optimator.3589]

Shouldn't be able to enter stealth while in combat. It's that simple. Whatever its other failings, WoW handled stealth far better than this game.

[kash.9213]

Which stealth attack from range are you talking about?

[Hesacon.8735]

Stealth doesn't bother me. Stealthing for the fourth time in 10 seconds is a little much.

[rng.1024]

Dodges should apply revealed if already stealthed.

 

This way the thief needs to choose between detarget or mobility, gives stealth a counter as they can't evade/move fast from where they stealth. Deadeyes could still choose to use their elite to restealth should they need the dodge.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"rng.1024" said:

> Dodges should apply revealed if already stealthed.

>

> This way the thief needs to choose between detarget or mobility, gives stealth a counter as they can't evade/move fast from where they stealth. Deadeyes could still choose to use their elite to restealth should they need the dodge.

 

dodging while you have stabilitiy should cause knockdown, you should plan ahead if you want to avoid a CC with stability or dodge. you may just use a stunbreak if you need the dodge.

[DemonSeed.3528]

> @"rng.1024" said:

> Dodges should apply revealed if already stealthed.

>

> This way the thief needs to choose between detarget or mobility, gives stealth a counter as they can't evade/move fast from where they stealth. Deadeyes could still choose to use their elite to restealth should they need the dodge.

 

SM might need to be changed to insta cast or stunbreak i think for this

[Israel.7056]

I think that if someone stealths in combat they should not immediately go invisible and drop target but instead fade from view over a second or two and stay targetable during that time so that stealth could not be used as a spammable detarget.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

> @"Optimator.3589" said:

> Shouldn't be able to enter stealth while in combat. It's that simple. Whatever its other failings, WoW handled stealth far better than this game.

 

How many classes run stealth in wow?

[rng.1024]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"rng.1024" said:

> > Dodges should apply revealed if already stealthed.

> >

> > This way the thief needs to choose between detarget or mobility, gives stealth a counter as they can't evade/move fast from where they stealth. Deadeyes could still choose to use their elite to restealth should they need the dodge.

>

> dodging while you have stabilitiy should cause knockdown, you should plan ahead if you want to avoid a CC with stability or dodge. you may just use a stunbreak if you need the dodge.

 

I'm all in for this actually if every skill in the game that currently gives stab give atleast 2 stacks - counterplay for the professions without innate boonremoval. Remember the thief can dodge just as much (daredevil more) when out of stealth, all he needs to do is plan his window of stealth.

 

> @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > @"rng.1024" said:

> > Dodges should apply revealed if already stealthed.

> >

> > This way the thief needs to choose between detarget or mobility, gives stealth a counter as they can't evade/move fast from where they stealth. Deadeyes could still choose to use their elite to restealth should they need the dodge.

>

> SM might need to be changed to insta cast or stunbreak i think for this

 

Why though? It would work just the same as now, they could either wait out the 3 sec revealed or cast it immideately after they land.

[Turk.5460]

> @"Optimator.3589" said:

> Shouldn't be able to enter stealth while in combat. It's that simple. Whatever its other failings, WoW handled stealth far better than this game.

 

They also gave Rogues the ability to stand toe-toe with other classes. Thief can't do that. So if you want that type of stealth, think about what buffs Thief will receive as compensation, I doubt you'd enjoy those buffs.

[geist.4126]

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> > @"Optimator.3589" said:

> > Shouldn't be able to enter stealth while in combat. It's that simple. Whatever its other failings, WoW handled stealth far better than this game.

>

> They also gave Rogues the ability to stand toe-toe with other classes. Thief can't do that. So if you want that type of stealth, think about what buffs Thief will receive as compensation, I doubt you'd enjoy those buffs.

 

Maybe you just learn to dodge and don't go full glasscannon?

 

 

[geist.4126]

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > @"Optimator.3589" said:

> > Shouldn't be able to enter stealth while in combat. It's that simple. Whatever its other failings, WoW handled stealth far better than this game.

>

> How many classes run stealth in wow?

 

Same number as in GW2. Mesmer/Thief vs. Rogue/Feral. An engineer or ranger isn't exactly running stealth just because they have one skill that stealthes them for a short time.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"geist.4126" said:

> An engineer or ranger isn't exactly running stealth just because they have one skill that stealthes them for a short time.

 

Lolwat. I've seen rangers stealth more than thieves (and with enough mobility to outrun mesmers, though not thieves) and engies are no slouches either in the stealth area, they can almost match mesmers.

[Turk.5460]

> @"geist.4126" said:

> > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > @"Optimator.3589" said:

> > > Shouldn't be able to enter stealth while in combat. It's that simple. Whatever its other failings, WoW handled stealth far better than this game.

> >

> > How many classes run stealth in wow?

>

> Same number as in GW2. Mesmer/Thief vs. Rogue/Feral. An engineer or ranger isn't exactly running stealth just because they have one skill that stealthes them for a short time.

 

Do you even play GW2? Rangers have more stealth than mesmers.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

> @"geist.4126" said:

> > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > @"Optimator.3589" said:

> > > Shouldn't be able to enter stealth while in combat. It's that simple. Whatever its other failings, WoW handled stealth far better than this game.

> >

> > How many classes run stealth in wow?

>

> Same number as in GW2. Mesmer/Thief vs. Rogue/Feral. An engineer or ranger isn't exactly running stealth just because they have one skill that stealthes them for a short time.

 

My point was, everything and anything can be stealthed in gw2, can wow zergs be stealthed too? It's completely different game.

 

Edit. Thievs have to go full offensive gear to actually hurt people, even then that's not enough so most thievs are either de or they take assassins signet to Yolo burst.

[SoV.5139]

> @"Optimator.3589" said:

> Shouldn't be able to enter stealth while in combat. It's that simple. Whatever its other failings, WoW handled stealth far better than this game.

 

Agreed.

Once the ambush happens the player is now committed to the fight. They dont get to escape and reset every time they begin to lose.

[geist.4126]

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

 

> My point was, everything and anything can be stealthed in gw2, can wow zergs be stealthed too? It's completely different game.

 

 

Maybe you check your facts.

 

Mage:

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=198158/mass-invisibility

Rogue:

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=114018/shroud-of-concealment

 

Edit. Thievs have to go full offensive gear to actually hurt people, even then that's not enough so most thievs are either de or they take assassins signet to Yolo burst.

 

Yeah right, that's completely exclusive to thieves. Are you kidding me?

[geist.4126]

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> Do you even play GW2? Rangers have more stealth than mesmers.

 

I really had to lol about that.

 

[LetoII.3782]

> @"geist.4126" said:

> > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > Do you even play GW2? Rangers have more stealth than mesmers.

>

> I really had to lol about that.

>

 

Mostly true

It's just a chore to do on soulbeast

 

And most ramger-inclined folks are very meh

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

> @"geist.4126" said:

> > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

>

> > My point was, everything and anything can be stealthed in gw2, can wow zergs be stealthed too? It's completely different game.

>

>

> Maybe you check your facts.

>

> Mage:

> https://www.wowhead.com/spell=198158/mass-invisibility

> Rogue:

> https://www.wowhead.com/spell=114018/shroud-of-concealment

>

>

> Edit. Thievs have to go full offensive gear to actually hurt people, even then that's not enough so most thievs are either de or they take assassins signet to Yolo burst.

>

> Yeah right, that's completely exclusive to thieves. Are you kidding me?

 

That's just 2 spells.

[geist.4126]

Don't move the goalpost again. You said "How many classes have access to stealth in WoW". I named them.

After that you said "can wow zergs be stealthed too? It's completely different game." I showed you they can.

Now you go for the number of "spells". That's two spells you have in WoW to stealth your group. Mages have invisibility, Rogues have stealth on "no cd" and Vanish and Feral Druids have the same stealth Rogues have + there is the Nightelf Racial that makes you invisible.

 

Two classes in WoW are balanced around stealth (Feral Druid and Rogue) and both are way more balanced than thief or any stealth in GW2 ever was. They are based on either control or high burst and don't have "all in one" with zero risk like Deadeye has or D/P thieves had for 90% of GW2s life cycle.

 

And now tell me which GW2 class hasn't to go full offensive gear to hurt people, because you made it sound that thief is the only one.

 

[Widmo.3186]

The reason why GW2 stealth is not WoW stealth is that most skills are free-target casts. Especially 1 that has no cd (except stealth abilities) and on most characters is free-targetable. In WoW you either need to have targeted sth or use AoE that has cast time/big cooldown/low range (or youre just DH). So please, dont compare those 2 mechanics because if you wanted to have WoW stealth in GW2 you would need to rebuild whole game.

 

I dont think that early warning would be a good idea, thieves would start crying that they cannot hit backstabs anymore. About reentering stealth during fight, Core needs to hit you, DD needs to use 2 skills (both clearly visible and interruptable), DE...he just does whatever he wants. Now, draw conclusions.

I didn't mention druid, mesmer and engi stealth because I don't think that many ppl have problems with them as with ^.

 

PS: By the way, you know that Rogue in WoW has Vanish and Distraction that allows him to reset fight twice, right? So its also not so "perfect"

[geist.4126]

Distraction doesn't allow you to reset a fight. Vanish is basically what every instant stealth skill in Gw2 is - and it has a way longer cd than any of those.

Additionally there are counters to stealth in WoW. Demon Hunters Spectral Sight and Hunters Flare. And if you use vanish you don't end up 1200m away from your target suddenly and are safe. You only have a 1 sec immunity before you can get put out of stealth with an AoE or any hit.

As a feral you have neither of those and still are a top class.

 

The key here is: There is a hardcounter to stealth. GW2 doesn't have one, because stealth is almost everytime available even if you manage to reveal and thieves/meser have ridiculous mobility which makes the pure revealed a bad counter. Even worse with DE elite now.