Rune and Sigil Changes - 13 November 2018 [Merged]

[RabbitUp.8294]

> @"Taelac.7036" said:

> > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > > @"Taelac.7036" said:

> > > A guildmate asks: how will low-level characters obtain runes/sigils as they level up and change out their armor? Presumably they'll be able to craft them, but will new players find how to do that obvious? Will low level runes and sigils be craftable *and* tradeable, so that new characters/players can upgrade equipment through the trading post for a reasonable cost?

> > >

> > > I'm pretty pleased with the notion overall, but I share the curiosity about how leveling gear will be addressed.

> >

> > They'll still be slotted in gear they drop. Low level runes only require 2 to 4 runes to get their effects anyway. Plus gear changes fast enough that you will rarely ever have any effect active. You don't have to buy a new gear set every 5 levels in this game either, so I don't see any issues coming up.

>

> Yes, but sometimes a rune or a sigil drops on gear that can't be used by that character, and if the upgrade is retained on salvaging the item, it can be slotted into existing gear to help it stretch until the next lucky drop or level reward. Veteran players know enough to work around being under-geared, but new players might struggle more if it hasn't been taken into account.

 

How many people bother with random rune drops during leveling in the first place? And even if they can't salvage them, there's nothing stopping them from buying some from TP.

[RabbitUp.8294]

> @"Destrumona.3794" said:

> I'm excited about this!!

>

> Just hoping that the change will also come with legendary weapon sigil swapping, since the reason they gave for not implementing it with legendary armor was messing with the in-game economy, and now that economy is going to be turned on its head, seems like a good time.

>

> Unless they really think they're gonna make big money in the gem store with those upgrade extractors... :expressionless:

 

Sigil swapping was intended to come along with this revamp, but it sneaked into the game last week, so it's already live.

[Einsof.1457]

RIP chrono being fun and complex

[Destrumona.3794]

> @"RabbitUp.8294" said:

> > @"Destrumona.3794" said:

> > I'm excited about this!!

> >

> > Just hoping that the change will also come with legendary weapon sigil swapping, since the reason they gave for not implementing it with legendary armor was messing with the in-game economy, and now that economy is going to be turned on its head, seems like a good time.

> >

> > Unless they really think they're gonna make big money in the gem store with those upgrade extractors... :expressionless:

>

> Sigil swapping was intended to come along with this revamp, but it sneaked into the game last week, so it's already live.

 

Wow, found this: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/59213/sigil-swapping-and-legendary-weapons

 

Why they announced it as a seperate thread (I don't spend much time on the forums or the reddit) and not edited into the patch notes, which I do check regularly, I'll never understand. I love you Anet but sometimes your communication is lacking!

 

Well, all around happy with this update then. Just hope the new mats have a vendor price (looking at you, auric dust).

[Tyger.1637]

> @"ExtraCosmic.9082" said:

> *glances at his 4 bank tabs packed with a stockpile of every single superior rune and sigil he's acquired since launch, starts rubbing hands together and laughing like Mr. Burns*

> **Cough** That said this looks like it'll be a cool and interesting change, looking forward to it! Also looking forward to maybe salvaging something useful from some of the more plentiful runes, like Sunless.

 

As the Season Tome said to the Portal Scroll: "Excellent"

 

On another note; the increase in Upgrade Extractor quantity is nice as is the unchanged BLSK output.

[Blocki.4931]

> @"Einsof.1457" said:

> RIP chrono being fun and complex

 

Pressing ^ before unloading is neither fun nor adds complexity lol

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > @"Einsof.1457" said:

> > RIP chrono being fun and complex

>

> Pressing ^ before unloading is neither fun nor adds complexity lol

 

Because pressing skills as they come back from cd is as fun as having rotation....

[Alimar.8760]

The most interesting thing of note that they've shown is the change of the concentration rune from 33% to 10%. And I feel this is going to hurt a lot of high end hardcore chronomancers. (Scholar looks interesting and probably better than it was before.) Personally I think it would be more accessible if the 33% weren't so expensive. But I feel removing main gameplay mechanics from runes and sigils like swapping weapons is further pushing the gameplay into super casual mode with little to no encouragement to learn the nuances of the games mechanics. (I'm looking at you CC bar in large PvE events where no one knows how to use skills to CC. This is a stupid example.) We can have a casual game with mechanics in place that encourage precise gameplay.

 

My recommendation would be to allow for the 10% rune to be different to that of the 33% on stat swap. That or let the rune be more accessible so that people that need to acquire this "required" rune aren't pushed into dropping 30g or whatever. (It was 70g when I got mine.) Accessibility I think is the bigger issue, not an overpowered issue. Since it took a lot of skill to use it effectively and many chronos i know refused to get it for its expense anyways.

 

I am excited for this update and I have been talking about the ability to salvage runes for 1 dust or 1 metal ore for a while now. This just seems to be a much better expansion on that idea. I really hope the more expensive runes will become more accessible to those that can't afford them at the current time. Outside of that I am constantly worried now about how Arena Net is consistently making things "easier" gameplay wise. (Speaking specifically about changes to how gameplay works) There seems to be less reward for using the nuances of gameplay to their fullest for those min/maxing their builds than there was years ago. Sometimes I get the feeling that those that are constantly pushing the bounds of what they can do in game are getting punished for it for the sake of casual players or balance. I'm not trying to rumormonger or hate this change. And I'm hopeful for what kind of freshness this'll bring to the game. I just hope they know what they're doing when they drastically change such a core sigil used in high end PvE content.

[Kylden Ar.3724]

> @"MokahTGS.7850" said:

> > @"Randulf.7614" said:

> > > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > > > @"Randulf.7614" said:

> > > > Hope these salvage bits will be able to be sold via a vendor otherwise the problem will end up circular

> > >

> > > I'm thinking it will be some "rune/sigil dust" or something in multiple qualities, that you can refine like other materials via crafting. So it will be stored in material storage.

> >

> > I understand that, but it's when the material storage fills up. Will we end up with another auric dust/airship oil problem. If they have a vendor value, then it's problem sorted

>

> This. please Anet...listen.

 

Agreed 100%. EVERYTHING should have a vendor value, soulbound, account bound, or not. We should always be able to dump stuff, even if it's just to cover waypoint costs.

[Amaranthe.3578]

Finally!!!

[Blocki.4931]

> @"Alimar.8760" said:

> The most interesting thing of note that they've shown is the change of the concentration rune from 33% to 10%. And I feel this is going to hurt a lot of high end hardcore chronomancers. (Scholar looks interesting and probably better than it was before.) Personally I think it would be more accessible if the 33% weren't so expensive. But I feel removing main gameplay mechanics from runes and sigils like swapping weapons is further pushing the gameplay into super casual mode with little to no encouragement to learn the nuances of the games mechanics. (I'm looking at you CC bar in large PvE events where no one knows how to use skills to CC. This is a stupid example.) We can have a casual game with mechanics in place that encourage precise gameplay.

>

> My recommendation would be to allow for the 10% rune to be different to that of the 33% on stat swap. That or let the rune be more accessible so that people that need to acquire this "required" rune aren't pushed into dropping 30g or whatever. (It was 70g when I got mine.) Accessibility I think is the bigger issue, not an overpowered issue. Since it took a lot of skill to use it effectively and many chronos i know refused to get it for its expense anyways.

>

> I am excited for this update and I have been talking about the ability to salvage runes for 1 dust or 1 metal ore for a while now. This just seems to be a much better expansion on that idea. I really hope the more expensive runes will become more accessible to those that can't afford them at the current time. Outside of that I am constantly worried now about how Arena Net is consistently making things "easier" gameplay wise. (Speaking specifically about changes to how gameplay works) There seems to be less reward for using the nuances of gameplay to their fullest for those min/maxing their builds than there was years ago. Sometimes I get the feeling that those that are constantly pushing the bounds of what they can do in game are getting punished for it for the sake of casual players or balance. I'm not trying to rumormonger or hate this change. And I'm hopeful for what kind of freshness this'll bring to the game. I just hope they know what they're doing when they drastically change such a core sigil used in high end PvE content.

 

I think Anet are trying to simplify overly complicated things to get a better level to work off of. What I mean is that some classes had way more difficult rotations and simplifying it a bit might not be the worst thing. If all classes are more or less the same complexity they can start working that complexity into the encounters themselves, with more individual mechanics and such. Imagine having a more difficult rotation and then also having to deal with the major mechanic on your own, that's a lot of pressure just for a single person.

I think Qadim showed that pretty well. Having many people do their individual tasks at the same time, splitting that burden on the players.

[Einsof.1457]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > @"Einsof.1457" said:

> > RIP chrono being fun and complex

>

> Pressing ^ before unloading is neither fun nor adds complexity lol

 

If that is what you are doing then you are doing it wrong. How is your CS timer? Your SoI/WoA etc.? Those factor into timing swap. WoA first, then swap, or shield 5 into CS first? Depending on the situation is could be either. This change drastically dumbs down cooldown management and will make it extremely boring to play.

[Ashantara.8731]

So we will be able to craft them via our crafing disciplines _and_ via MF recipes?

 

Why does ANet have to complicate everything? :s Wouldn't it have been enough to just make them salvagable? Oh well, we'll see what the update will bring exactly. At least, stats are getting reworked, that's a big plus. :)

[Jeknar.6184]

> @"Einsof.1457" said:

> > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > > @"Einsof.1457" said:

> > > RIP chrono being fun and complex

> >

> > Pressing ^ before unloading is neither fun nor adds complexity lol

>

> If that is what you are doing then you are doing it wrong. How is your CS timer? Your SoI/WoA etc.? Those factor into timing swap. WoA first, then swap, or shield 5 into CS first? Depending on the situation is could be either. This change drastically dumbs down cooldown management and will make it extremely boring to play.

 

I've been just mashing buttons on chrono and being effective for most part... Hell, I've even been told I'm better than the average pug chrono. Maybe I'm a genius and I don't know?

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> So we will be able to craft them via our crafing disciplines _and_ via MF recipes?

>

> Why does ANet have to complicate everything? :s Wouldn't it have been enough to just make them salvagable? Oh well, we'll see what the update will bring exactly. At least, stats are getting reworked, that's a big plus. :)

 

From the article it looks more like the ones that are currently only obtainable via salvage will have MF recipes while the ones that are currently craftable will have their recipes updated to use the new materials in place of things like orichalcum ingots/hardened leather/gossamer

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> From the article it looks more like the ones that are currently only obtainable via salvage will have MF recipes while the ones that are currently craftable will have their recipes updated to use the new materials in place of things like orichalcum ingots/hardened leather/gossamer

 

That makes sense. Thank you for clarifying things for me. :)

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Randulf.7614" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > I just realized, ANet missed a big opportunity. The sigil of luck will be produced with symbols. So this game simply will not have any ... lucky charms.

>

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Purple_Lucky_Rabbit%27s_Foot

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Red_Lucky_Rabbit%27s_Foot

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Orange_Lucky_Rabbit%27s_Foot

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Yellow_Lucky_Rabbit%27s_Foot

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Green_Lucky_Rabbit%27s_Foot

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blue_Lucky_Rabbit%27s_Foot

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Red_Lucky_Rabbit%27s_Foot

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lucky_Pink_Rabbit%27s_Foot

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lucky_White_Rabbit%27s_Foot

 

Wow. You totally did not catch the smart play upon words.

[Zem.4139]

hi ,

I just want to pay attention to this :

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/november-13-salvage-runes-and-sigils/

It's not a joke , its a again a nerf made in anet.

 

Sigil of Concentration

 

Concentration has been impacting boon-granting professions for some time. While it has enabled a few very strong builds, it also makes the Sigil of Concentration mandatory in high-end PvE content, without any way to replace it. So, we’re adding a couple of utility options that will help with this while tuning the sigil to a reasonable level.

 

Old: Applying a boon increases its duration by 33% for 7 seconds after swapping to this weapon in combat. (Cooldown: 9 Seconds)

New: +10% Boon Duration

 

Whhatttt ?? -23% ??????

But... wtf... its like 2x time duration of my food+utility...

Its just crazy , the food and utility i paid so much to get bonus ,now will only give me half of the nerf from sigil.... its just insane.

What ? chrono was not hard enought to play ??

[Talindra.4958]

I have a bad feeling about this ?.

1) The drop for sigil and runes will be greatly reduced.. so it won't clog up your inventory already anyway..

2) sigil price will rocket.. hope not another sigil nullification scene..

3) some new but boring ridiculous sigil crafting to do which need crazy grinding.

 

I will just wait and see. Let's hope I'm wrong (cross fingers)

[Talindra.4958]

Btw... My account value gone up a little bcos of sigil/runes which I invested hoping skill balance build change.. not sure if I should keep them for later or sell them now xD

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

For me, the nerf of the boon duration is not that bad (it was too stat efficient) as removal of weaponswap. Now you need to actualy think about using skills on chrono and count if you can afford to w8 for swap or you need to cast now, while trying to get maximu dps from the class. Also you had to think ahead so you are at right weaponset at right time (x:30 on sloth on focus for pull, at shield for cc bar...)

 

With this change you can just activate your spells on cd....

 

With informations we have, it looks boring. Maybe we will get weaponswap enhancements. Will give anet until tuesday and then decide if this is good or bad.

[Cristalyan.5728]

> @"hugo.4705" said:

> November 13: Salvage Runes and Sigils.

> Runes and sigils are becoming salvageable. That’s right, no more minor runes and sigils clogging up your bag space!

> When runes and sigils are salvaged, they’ll yield a new material called a lucent mote. You’ll also have **a chance** to salvage rarer materials: symbols from sigils, and charms from runes. Lucent motes can be refined by all crafting disciplines and—along with symbols and charms—used in recipes to create sigils and runes.

>

> Source: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/november-13-salvage-runes-and-sigils/

> Seriously, thank you for that great improvement! Can delete finishers without typing the name, and now that, thanks so much! <3 :D

 

I highlighted the detail I'm worried about. In the announcement ANet states that the sigills and runes will also have a **chance** to be salvaged when using a salvage kit on an item, returning you the materials. Also, in the announcement ANet says that the recipes will be available at the master crafters OR as a **rare drop** in Tyria. If by rare drop they understand the drop rate of Sam or Jormag's Claw fragment, then ......

 

Let's think at a scenario: You have an item with the superior rune of the Scholar. You want this rune. THIS rune is what you need for your toon. Salvage item - that means you may salvage the rune too. You receive some materials. IS OK. Now you need the recipe for the rune. Go hunting the recipe. And .... somewhere in the future you hve it. WOAAAA !! Now is the moment to craft my rune.

BUT - the materials needed to craft this rune is 5 time (or 10 or 250 times - according to Anet decision) greater than the materials contained in a single Rune of Scholar. But you cannot obtain that rune now - it is salvaged when you salvage the armors.

Solution? - Take a look in the Gem Store. The new extractor is 3 times cheaper. You can afford now to buy not one, but 6 - to have a complete set of rune.

 

The same scenario for Sigills - I will be not surprised if the cost for a crafted Sigill of Nullification will be way higher than the actual value the sigill has now on TP. And if the recipe is indeed as rare as **rare drop** means for ANet, that means not even raising alts to lvl 62 is not enough anymore. You need also to buy 25 extractors from Gem Store.

 

[Einsof.1457]

90% of professions have incredibly easy rotations. Now they're coming for the rest of us. 6 years in, anet is dumbing down the game in attempt to gain more casual players by sacrificing the rest of us.

[Steve The Cynic.3217]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > @"Randulf.7614" said:

> > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > I just realized, ANet missed a big opportunity. The sigil of luck will be produced with symbols. So this game simply will not have any ... lucky charms.

> >

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Purple_Lucky_Rabbit%27s_Foot

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Red_Lucky_Rabbit%27s_Foot

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Orange_Lucky_Rabbit%27s_Foot

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Yellow_Lucky_Rabbit%27s_Foot

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Green_Lucky_Rabbit%27s_Foot

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blue_Lucky_Rabbit%27s_Foot

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Red_Lucky_Rabbit%27s_Foot

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lucky_Pink_Rabbit%27s_Foot

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lucky_White_Rabbit%27s_Foot

>

> Wow. You totally did not catch the smart play upon words.

 

People who live outside North America have probably not encountered a certain "magically delicious" breakfast cereal. (I have, but that's because I lived in the US in the 1980s.)

[Danikat.8537]

Does this mean we'll be able to craft the Superior Sigil of Nulification? And others which are currently disproportionately hard to get?