Blocki.4931 Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 > @"TexZero.7910" said: > Per the hotfix - Abrasive Grit: This trait now has a 5-second cooldown, and the might it grants has been increased from 2 stacks for 6 seconds to 3 stacks for 8 seconds. > > Revert this. There's no logical reason to nerf the trait when the problem was the Rune. Stop hitting the class when the problem is the item. > The only class that abused it no longer abuses it. Nerf the extreme outlier, then nerf the rest if it still is too strong. Now we will be able to tell.> @"Ashen.2907" said: > > @"Blocki.4931" said: > > > @"Lindaklingomat.1253" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > Thats just a bad change. It should be all seperate in diff options "salvage gear" "salvage runes" "salvage sigils". > > > > > > > > Black lion kits keeping the rune and sigil make all of it look like a cashgrab. > > > > > > I agree 100% This feels like a big downgrade and a cashgrab, even a little "pay to win" to be honest > > > > You get free black lion salvage kits every month.. the daily log ins give them to you. They have 25 charges, most people are swimming in them. Personally I have deleted at least 100 of them already because they are useless to me... > > I must be missing something. How are you certain to get free multiple BLSKs every month? > > I am not personally as aware of the contents of, "most people's," inventory as you seem to be, but I do know that I am not swimming in them (I do have a partial kit right now thats been used sparingly for months). Not a month passes without getting one tbh, that's why I said you're guaranteed to get one. You get so many over time, they might as well be. If people salvage trash gear for the useless runes then that's their problem honestly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTundraTerror.7213 Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 >Balancing a class around a rune Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegeta.2563 Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 While this is related to the Sanctuary runes. The nerf to Abrasive Gift was uncalled for, and should be looked at a 2nd time. 5 seconds is a long time between condition clearing when it's one of scourges main sources for condition removal. Having a 5 second cooldown hurts scourge a lot. While the Sanctuary runes providing barrier that triggered the trait was the problem. I suggest adjusting the rune to only trigger on actual healing skills, and not trigger on life siphon. This is where the actual problem is. Then the cooldown on the trait can be lifted, as the might gain would only trigger from actual healing and not life siphon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordEnki.9283 Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 I really hate having all the work I did to unlock all those recipes is null and void now. A QoL update shouldn't undo practically all your progress in the thing it's trying to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 > @"Blocki.4931" said: > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > Per the hotfix - Abrasive Grit: This trait now has a 5-second cooldown, and the might it grants has been increased from 2 stacks for 6 seconds to 3 stacks for 8 seconds. > > > > Revert this. There's no logical reason to nerf the trait when the problem was the Rune. Stop hitting the class when the problem is the item. > > > > The only class that abused it no longer abuses it. Nerf the extreme outlier, then nerf the rest if it still is too strong. Now we will be able to tell.> @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > @"Blocki.4931" said: > > > > @"Lindaklingomat.1253" said: > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > Thats just a bad change. It should be all seperate in diff options "salvage gear" "salvage runes" "salvage sigils". > > > > > > > > > > Black lion kits keeping the rune and sigil make all of it look like a cashgrab. > > > > > > > > I agree 100% This feels like a big downgrade and a cashgrab, even a little "pay to win" to be honest > > > > > > You get free black lion salvage kits every month.. the daily log ins give them to you. They have 25 charges, most people are swimming in them. Personally I have deleted at least 100 of them already because they are useless to me... > > > > I must be missing something. How are you certain to get free multiple BLSKs every month? > > > > I am not personally as aware of the contents of, "most people's," inventory as you seem to be, but I do know that I am not swimming in them (I do have a partial kit right now thats been used sparingly for months). > > Not a month passes without getting one tbh, that's why I said you're guaranteed to get one. You get so many over time, they might as well be. > > If people salvage trash gear for the useless runes then that's their problem honestly Hmm, Ive received two this year. I mean they are one of several RNG options from that partiular log in reward. You may be an outlier if you are getting multiple every month. I dont think, and correct me if I am mistaken, that the drop rates from the log in reward support at least two per month. Ive been here since pre-launch and I have not received as many as you claim to have discarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eloc Freidon.5692 Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 After looking into these changes, getting any runes and sigils for your gear is now a steep grind. Before you got a chance of getting them from gear and can use them right away. The rate of getting the "motes" is so much significantly lower and you need multiples of the right one to start crafting one. I prefer the old method of getting runes and sigils. Just let us salvage those for lucent and motes when we want to craft the upgrades we want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 > @"Blocki.4931" said: > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > Per the hotfix - Abrasive Grit: This trait now has a 5-second cooldown, and the might it grants has been increased from 2 stacks for 6 seconds to 3 stacks for 8 seconds. > > > > Revert this. There's no logical reason to nerf the trait when the problem was the Rune. Stop hitting the class when the problem is the item. > > > > The only class that abused it no longer abuses it. Nerf the extreme outlier, then nerf the rest if it still is too strong. Now we will be able to tell.> @"Ashen.2907" said: I'm sorry no. That's the most absurd logical fallacy i've ever seen. The only class that exploited the extremely poor design of not having an ICD and having a synergy with the rune because they have more barriers is an issue only because the RUNE exist, not because the trait was strong. It was not an issue prior to the rework, the issue exist with the rework, rework it to not be in line with literally every other rune which has an ICD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blocki.4931 Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > @"Blocki.4931" said: > > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > Per the hotfix - Abrasive Grit: This trait now has a 5-second cooldown, and the might it grants has been increased from 2 stacks for 6 seconds to 3 stacks for 8 seconds. > > > > > > Revert this. There's no logical reason to nerf the trait when the problem was the Rune. Stop hitting the class when the problem is the item. > > > > > > > The only class that abused it no longer abuses it. Nerf the extreme outlier, then nerf the rest if it still is too strong. Now we will be able to tell.> @"Ashen.2907" said: > > I'm sorry no. That's the most absurd logical fallacy i've ever seen. > > The only class that exploited the extremely poor design of not having an ICD and having a synergy with the rune because they have more barriers is an issue only because the RUNE exist, not because the trait was strong. > > It was not an issue prior to the rework, the issue exist with the rework, rework it to not be in line with literally every other rune which has an ICD. > Look, when you introduce new changes you want these changes to be able to settle. You want more data from it being live etc. It's a simple game design standpoint and again, there is a single class abusing it to ABSURD levels, but the rest doesn't seem to be abusing it at all. Yes, you jump to the conclusion that the thing that has been there first is the last one to get changed, but that is silly. Again. This wasn't some small interaction. This was a literal godmode to conditions. That's not a minor thing, because of an interaction that isn't that easily fixed without rewriting larger parts of the code (making vampirism not a "heal" effect per se for example to fix this). It's an oversight and it was fixed immediately at least. A pretty large mistake, but they didn't leave it in the game for a full patch cycle. I can understand & relate to that. You have hundreds of traits and thousands of new interactions with them & the new effects. It's very easy to get lost in that, but I don't want to defend Anet on this. I'm just explaining how I see it. The rune itself isn't broken, might create some interesting gameplay with builds revolving around it partially at the very least. That's good design. But I will say it again and again, a single class did not only abuse it, but turn into a literal god because of it, while the others may just be okay with it. If you nerfed the rune itself, you now have the former god that might not even consider it anymore because it's bad and a whole bunch of classes that have 0 use for it because it went from meh to terrible once more. If they did that, they could have canned the entire thing because the point of that rework was to elevate runes and sigils from being awful to at least usable, not catapult them back there right away. I said it somewhere else too, but I don't think this is the last you'll see of this. They can easily change stuff later on, for now it doesn't kill the class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 > @"Blocki.4931" said: > It's a simple game design standpoint and again, there is a single class abusing it to ABSURD levels, but the rest doesn't seem to be abusing it at all. Yes, you jump to the conclusion that the thing that has been there first is the last one to get changed, but that is silly. You are putting the cart before the horse. It's not that there was one class that became broken in interaction with the rune. It's that there was one rune that became broken with interaction with the class. You don't balance classes around a single, yet untested rune. You balance new and yet untested runes around already balanced classes. Besides, the problem was not the abrasive grit itself. It was the interaction between life siphon mechanic and the rune. > Again. This wasn't some small interaction. This was a literal godmode to conditions. That's not a minor thing, because of an interaction that isn't that easily fixed without rewriting larger parts of the code (making vampirism not a "heal" effect per se for example to fix this). Somehow they managed to do exactly that for regeneration, didn't they. They just have forgotten about life siphon. But now it's the necro that gets the blame. > It's an oversight Yes, it is > and it was fixed immediately at least. Nope, the oversight (life siphon interaction) wasn't fixed, it's stil there. They just didn't want to be bothered with fixing the actual problem, and instead hit the necro with a nerfbat, because nerfing necro for any reason is always a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProtoGunner.4953 Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Again you made the mistake to make recipes according to the _current_ market situation. I.e. Sigil of Nullification costs around 7-8g to craft, if it were introduced before the stupid collection which spiked this item 10000fold you would have made a recipe which costs a 10th of this. This is beyond any reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rng.1024 Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 > @"Lanhelin.3480" said: > I have more than two bank tabs filled with superior runes and sigils. So additionally ANet should either add the entry+functionality to salvage-kits to auto-salvage all exotics (which could lead to lots of exotic items unintentionally salvaged) or simply reduce the quality of runes and sigils by one Tier: > > Old > Minor - Masterwork > Major - Rare > Superior - Exotic > > New > Minor - Fine > Major - Masterwork > Superior - Rare They've added the "Salvage Stack" functionality to kits (when you right click), allowing you to choose a specific stack of any non legendary or ascended quality to salvage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van Jango.3074 Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 I haven't done too much crafting of runes/sigils, but it is my impression, that the droprate of charms is a little low compared to the cost of crafting runes/sigils. For old time players this probably won't be that big of a deal, but for new players it will be difficult and maybe expensive to obtain runes/sigils in the early stages. Some quick thougts go towards as mentioned elsewhere, leaving it optional if you wan't to salvage the gear and leave a chance to obtain a rune/sigil. Vice versa. Or salvage the whole deal. Another thought would be to have runes/sigils drop in the world. Could be from various bags and bosses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rpgtabbycat.5869 Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 I salvaged 4 sigils and got 4 motes. Really? ANet are you trolling us? Serious question. I thought ESO's jewelcrafting had rediculous requirement until now. This makes ESO's jewelcrafting look like a cakewalk in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blocki.4931 Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"Blocki.4931" said: > > It's a simple game design standpoint and again, there is a single class abusing it to ABSURD levels, but the rest doesn't seem to be abusing it at all. Yes, you jump to the conclusion that the thing that has been there first is the last one to get changed, but that is silly. > You are putting the cart before the horse. It's not that there was one class that became broken in interaction with the rune. It's that there was one rune that became broken with interaction with the class. You don't balance classes around a single, yet untested rune. You balance new and yet untested runes around already balanced classes. > > Besides, the problem was not the abrasive grit itself. It was the interaction between life siphon mechanic and the rune. > > > Again. This wasn't some small interaction. This was a literal godmode to conditions. That's not a minor thing, because of an interaction that isn't that easily fixed without rewriting larger parts of the code (making vampirism not a "heal" effect per se for example to fix this). > Somehow they managed to do exactly that for regeneration, didn't they. They just have forgotten about life siphon. But now it's the necro that gets the blame. > > > It's an oversight > Yes, it is > > and it was fixed immediately at least. > Nope, the oversight (life siphon interaction) wasn't fixed, it's stil there. > > They just didn't want to be bothered with fixing the actual problem, and instead hit the necro with a nerfbat, because nerfing necro for any reason is always a good idea. > There's a reason for this too. Regen is classified as regen/boon, vampirism is classified as a flat package of healing. They'd have to rewrite parts of the code to change that interaction, which can cause many more problems. That's not something you put out in a hotfix like that. Nerf the hyperabuser so that the 8 other classes can test it because they have a new rune that might be interesting and okay, instead of nerfing the rune into trash tier for everybody because a single class broke it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 > @"Blocki.4931" said: > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > @"Blocki.4931" said: > > > It's a simple game design standpoint and again, there is a single class abusing it to ABSURD levels, but the rest doesn't seem to be abusing it at all. Yes, you jump to the conclusion that the thing that has been there first is the last one to get changed, but that is silly. > > You are putting the cart before the horse. It's not that there was one class that became broken in interaction with the rune. It's that there was one rune that became broken with interaction with the class. You don't balance classes around a single, yet untested rune. You balance new and yet untested runes around already balanced classes. > > > > Besides, the problem was not the abrasive grit itself. It was the interaction between life siphon mechanic and the rune. > > > > > Again. This wasn't some small interaction. This was a literal godmode to conditions. That's not a minor thing, because of an interaction that isn't that easily fixed without rewriting larger parts of the code (making vampirism not a "heal" effect per se for example to fix this). > > Somehow they managed to do exactly that for regeneration, didn't they. They just have forgotten about life siphon. But now it's the necro that gets the blame. > > > > > It's an oversight > > Yes, it is > > > and it was fixed immediately at least. > > Nope, the oversight (life siphon interaction) wasn't fixed, it's stil there. > > > > They just didn't want to be bothered with fixing the actual problem, and instead hit the necro with a nerfbat, because nerfing necro for any reason is always a good idea. > > > > There's a reason for this too. Regen is classified as regen/boon, vampirism is classified as a flat package of healing. They'd have to rewrite parts of the code to change that interaction, which can cause many more problems. That's not something you put out in a hotfix like that. Nerf the hyperabuser so that the 8 other classes can test it because they have a new rune that might be interesting and okay, instead of nerfing the rune into trash tier for everybody because a single class broke it. Yeah, that's solid thinking here. Nerf the class instead of the rune. After all, that single rune is more important than Necro, isn't it. Let it sink in - that trait was perfectly fine up to now. It's only that rune interaction that caused a problem, and yet, the decision was to go after the class, not the rune that caused the problem. That's (again) putting the cart before the horse. You just don't balance the class around the rune, you balance the rune around the class. It's not the class that broke the rune. It's the rune that broke the class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perilisk.1874 Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 > @"Blocki.4931" said: > There's a reason for this too. Regen is classified as regen/boon, vampirism is classified as a flat package of healing. They'd have to rewrite parts of the code to change that interaction, which can cause many more problems. That's not something you put out in a hotfix like that. Nerf the hyperabuser so that the 8 other classes can test it because they have a new rune that might be interesting and okay, instead of nerfing the rune into trash tier for everybody because a single class broke it. But they didn't just nerf the trait for the people that were abusing the interaction, they nerfed it for every other scourge as well. I'm sure an ICD is easier for them to implement quickly, but the right approach would have been to put a minimum barrier threshold on AG that would allow the barriers from shade and punishment skills to proc without alteration, but weed out the teeny barrier applications coming from 20% of a life steal hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aikatara.3462 Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 When I heard the news about the upcoming changes the first time I was exited. It sounded like interesting, and seemed to provide a nice solution for all those useless minor and major runes and sigils. But then the patch came and I saw the recipes (5 globs of Ectoplasm - another ectoplasm sink. Sigh. I am not exactly swimming in those), saw the drop rates and now I fear that outfitting new characters will get quite expensive. I am an altoholic. Creating new charas is my favorite end game. Well, sigh, let's see how it developes. I know one thing though: even though I spend money in the gem store regularly I certainly won't buy Black Lion Salvage Kits or other Upgrade removal devices with real money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phs.6089 Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Bring back runes of Nightmare, omg what particular build you made it for? Why render perfectly fine rune, tested by years, into useless junk that it is now? Nerf mirage not the runes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 The on combat effect on runes was a massive nerf the % on getting hit was far more useful and reliable. That more then any thing needs to be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 I haven't read the 10 pages (it's a bit much for me), so I'm sorry if this has been answered previously. I'm confused about this statement from the official News Blog: _You’ll still be able to obtain runes and sigils directly through new Mystic Forge recipes that make use of the salvaged materials._ Are these other/different recipes than those by crafting disciplines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Za Shaloc.3908 Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Why the addition of vigor duration to Surging Runes? It seems so random and mismatched with the set. Could be interesting to have something like increased outgoing damage while you have an aura active. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OtakuModeEngage.8679 Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 The drop rate for the Lucent Motes is pretty abundant and does not need adjusting, but the drop rate for symbols and charms is ridiculously low, paired with the fact that the new recipes use extremely expensive mats at high quantities, its now more expensive to craft a Rune or Sigil than it is to simply buy one off the trading post, so whats the point? Crafting has always been cheaper than buying off the TP, that's the allure, it's what makes it worth all the time, gold, and effort one has to put into mastering and grandmastering each discipline. Furthermore, not only is it a cheaper alternative to acquiring personal gear we intend to use for ourselves, but it also allows players to make profit buy selling their crafted items on TP... as it is now, whether we are crafting for ourselves or to resell, we actually lose gold! Whats more, this is just the beginning, as more players buy the items off TP rather than craft them, TP prices will go up until they eventually surpass the ridiculous crafting prices. What the hell is with this inflation? This isn't a quality of life update at all, but rather a 'screw you' update. Either the automatic salvaging of runes needs to be changed to optional, or the drop rate of required materials needs to be increase, because this is just too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 Yes, the market should never have to adapt 3 days into a patch. No one is storing materials currently thus reducing supply to the market thus driving up prices. Let's all freak out AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 If you compare what we used to get (vendor trash, that required vendoring or TP-listing dozens of items) with what we get now (stuff that can be deposited into material storage and only 8 types of materials), we're far, far better off now. Looking at the data from 1000s of salvages, it's clear that we're currently pulling in more coin (if we sell) which can be used to purchase whatever upgrades we need. Eventually, the supply will start to accumulate, as the initial demand surge drops off and we keep salvaging by the truckload. Prices will start to fall and soon, people will be complaining that stuff isn't worth anything. (Although that won't be true either.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yann.1946 Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 Crafting doesn't have to be cheaper tho, it's a way for people to work towards things on their own. That's atleast what a lot of people in the sigil of nullification thread where saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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