Its Nerfing Time.1495 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 > @"RUNICBLACK.7630" said: > Ok as previously stated there isn't any reason nor is it useful to the discussion to continue to throw shade at the developer's. Have they done things that infuriated or that I thought were wrong , yes of course but they have also done work that I was very happy with also yes and honestly I really don't see that I am in any position to criticize their work when I haven't done it myself and frankly it's this habit of some many people of passing judgement both positive and negative in absolutes terms that destroy any possibility of moving the conservation. I totally understand you have very strong views on this issue but please remember they aren't everybody else's. When people do bad work, they deserve criticism. Anet has been utterly failing when it comes to balance for sometime now so yeah, it's well deserved I've also never claimed everybody has nor should have the same view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUNICBLACK.7630 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 > @"Lonewolf Kai.3682" said: > Agreed. Courage virtue was over-tuned too much. I doubt we’ll see any change back though. Yes I know its disappointing but I still hope to see a correction after all look at our Staff nerf and reworked return better than ever . I totally get the frustration though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUNICBLACK.7630 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 You do understand that when write using absolutes like you just did "ANET has been utterly failing" and then say "that you never claimed that everybody has nor should have the same view" you are contradicting yourself. Please just try to communicate your ideas not just your anger and frustration because your not getting your message across. I respect your passionate and enjoy the game but I actual more interested in your idea's to make something better versus hearing how stinks honestly. Thank you for time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUNICBLACK.7630 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 > @"Lonewolf Kai.3682" said: > > @"RUNICBLACK.7630" said: > > > @"Lonewolf Kai.3682" said: > > > Agreed. Courage virtue was over-tuned too much. I doubt we’ll see any change back though. > > > > Yes I know its disappointing but I still hope to see a correction after all look at our Staff nerf and reworked return better than ever . I totally get the frustration though. > > Good point. Honestly though, I wish they’d add some damage components to Courage and Resolve now that they’ve added some CDs to them. I’m more hesitant to leave them now but hate not being able to do any damage while in them. > > As for the forum trolls, just ignore them. They’ll go away eventually. No need to feed. I've been playing with some ideas as thought exercises so speak, for Spirit Weapons and Shouts you check them out in my older posts , they weren't prefect and need revisited but they are there if you're interested. I've got a couple of other ideas that I'm still working and I'll post them soon. Any input on any of the stuff I've done is appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"TwiceDead.1963" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ragnarox.9601" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those two tomes were OP. Don’t overreact. Guardian got good buffs overall. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > LoL OP? While mesmers/mirages still oneshotting ppl. Yea good nerf, as I said, time for wow, my class is getting buffed there. While here every patch is constant nerfing and buffing something that will never be used, next balance patch will be buffing signets and spirit weapons again cause anet does have no clue nor anybody plays guardian in their balance kitten team. enjoy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hammer was played in PvP, and we got PvE buffs. Guardian has always been in a good spot game wise, don’t cry over some CD increases. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We got PVE nerfs, or are you just blind? Mores the fact we got PVE nerfs because of PVP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tomes don’t solely make a Guardian. The only nerf we got is some extra Tome CD added. I’m not blind, and can read fine. If you think Tomes are all that make Firebrand good, then I guess you need to sit down, and read the wiki. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did I say they made the Guardian? So yeah, you ARE blind. I suggest you learn how to build a character and the difference between PVE and PVP and how they should never interact > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Judging your overreaction over two nerfed tomes... **Yeah**, it's safe to assume they were carrying your world. I guess it's time to switch to new crutches. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't play PVP, only PVE. PVE and PVP should never ever affect one another, nice assumptions kid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you just play PvE, then why does this change matter to you at all? You never use Tomes on CD, and only use them when needing to block or burst heal. If you are using your Tomes on CD, then you aren’t playing well, and are actually destroying your healing, and support output. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do I need to bold it or something? PVE and PVP should never affect one another. These nerfs were clearly aimed at PVP yet Anet for god knows what reason, didn't split all of them > > > > > > > > > > > > A bit of an academic point but ... ideally, there isn't splitting of skills between PVP and PVE ... I think Anet do it as a last resort. There is reason for that; continuity. > > > > > > > > > > They did it back in GW1, back when the balance team were actually competent. > > > > > > > > > > Now they're just an utter waste of space > > > > > > > > I don't think anything that happened in GW1 has a bearing on GW2, so I don't see the relevance of mentioning it, ever .. unless you're absolutely salty. > > > > > > > > That doesn't change what I've said; Classes that have too many splits between PVP/PVE is not an ideal situation; they lack a feel of continuity. > > > > > > Other than the fact you know, same company, used to have the same team but most of them have left now. Not sure how you managed to miss the obvious but k. > > > > > > If they managed the split in GW1, they can manage it in GW2. It's *really* not difficult. In terms of programming they simply have the PVE skills as the parent class and the PVP child inherit everything, then change the children. PVE is the major focus of GW2 ergo the main balance perspective is PVE first. They can easily then do more balance passes for PVP based stuff without affecting PVE ever, and very simple to maintain too. > > > > > > PVE and PVP don't need continuity, you just have them entirely separate. > > > > Nothing obvious about it ... different game, different people, different **kind** of game even. Why anyone would think there should be any similarity in how they play or get balanced makes no sense to begin with. > > > > Again, I've provided a reasonable rational for why Anet would not use the split more than absolutely necessary. I would argue that continuity is important but obviously you're into attributing everything to incompetence based on your *cough* professional *cough* opinion about how easy it is instead of objective thought to why it's as it is now. Therefore, I see little point to present that argument with the risk we get regaled with more opinions from you. Clearly, Anet think there is SOME reason to not do what you easily think should be done ... so you should think about that and not assume that you just figured it all out for everyone based on your limited gamechair experiences. > > Except it's extremely obvious to anyone who actually bothers to think and/or read. > > you haven't provided anything that's reasonable nor rational. You are providing opinions and don't want to have to actually deal with an argument because you know you don't have anything. > > you claiming your opinion is rational or reasonable is hilarious, because it isn't. I highly suggest you learn to read posts thoroughly before commenting. > > continuity is not required because they are two very different game modes, and if you bothered to read my post, when i explained the code changes, i said how it'd make it actually easier. > > i don't expect a non-programmer to understand but kitten if i didn't simplify it I guess exercising the ability to think and/or read only applies when you want to insult someone; you should probably take some of your own advice. No one is arguing continuity is **required**; I said it appears to be important to Anet. There is very good evidence of this because they have actually REMOVED PVP/PVE splits that they have put in place; they clearly have SOME reason they do this. I believe continuity is one of a number of reasons for it. It’s unfortunate you haven’t thought about how or why Anet use splits this way or the possible reasons for it ... instead you have assumed the worst conclusion (Anet is incompetent) based on your feelings (Anger with a dash of salt), not the reality of what is happening. Here is what I like about your posts; you've managed to troll a bunch of people with this programming deflection. Unfortunately for you, the ability to program has nothing to do with determining what changes are needed to balance the game; those activities aren’t related at all. They are completely different skill sets. Being incompetent at programming doesn’t mean they are terrible at balance and being able to program doesn’t mean they are good at balancing; you have made that incorrect correlation. Figuring out what changes to make to balance is not the same as someone making the changes in the code. Your experience in programming in this discussion is actually clouding your opinion and isn’t even relevant, AT ALL. Programming is not a barrier that Anet is experiencing for balancing the game ... the very implication of such a thing is absurd. Good thing some of us are unread and non-thinking enough to understand these things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUNICBLACK.7630 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Ha ha they themselves said that they couldn't remotely maintain balance in GW1 there was to many skill interactions to keep up with, sorry but using that as a supporting argument is funny . On the issue of being blind well I might be nearsighted but I'm not blind but I am bias but so is everybody. Hey seriously keep beating the drum on your argument to your hearts content nobody is listening any more I'm only continuing the conversation out of curiousity to see if you start suggesting some interesting ideas, but hey knock yourself out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Its Nerfing Time.1495 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"TwiceDead.1963" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ragnarox.9601" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those two tomes were OP. Don’t overreact. Guardian got good buffs overall. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > LoL OP? While mesmers/mirages still oneshotting ppl. Yea good nerf, as I said, time for wow, my class is getting buffed there. While here every patch is constant nerfing and buffing something that will never be used, next balance patch will be buffing signets and spirit weapons again cause anet does have no clue nor anybody plays guardian in their balance kitten team. enjoy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hammer was played in PvP, and we got PvE buffs. Guardian has always been in a good spot game wise, don’t cry over some CD increases. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We got PVE nerfs, or are you just blind? Mores the fact we got PVE nerfs because of PVP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tomes don’t solely make a Guardian. The only nerf we got is some extra Tome CD added. I’m not blind, and can read fine. If you think Tomes are all that make Firebrand good, then I guess you need to sit down, and read the wiki. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did I say they made the Guardian? So yeah, you ARE blind. I suggest you learn how to build a character and the difference between PVE and PVP and how they should never interact > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Judging your overreaction over two nerfed tomes... **Yeah**, it's safe to assume they were carrying your world. I guess it's time to switch to new crutches. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't play PVP, only PVE. PVE and PVP should never ever affect one another, nice assumptions kid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you just play PvE, then why does this change matter to you at all? You never use Tomes on CD, and only use them when needing to block or burst heal. If you are using your Tomes on CD, then you aren’t playing well, and are actually destroying your healing, and support output. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do I need to bold it or something? PVE and PVP should never affect one another. These nerfs were clearly aimed at PVP yet Anet for god knows what reason, didn't split all of them > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A bit of an academic point but ... ideally, there isn't splitting of skills between PVP and PVE ... I think Anet do it as a last resort. There is reason for that; continuity. > > > > > > > > > > > > They did it back in GW1, back when the balance team were actually competent. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now they're just an utter waste of space > > > > > > > > > > I don't think anything that happened in GW1 has a bearing on GW2, so I don't see the relevance of mentioning it, ever .. unless you're absolutely salty. > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't change what I've said; Classes that have too many splits between PVP/PVE is not an ideal situation; they lack a feel of continuity. > > > > > > > > Other than the fact you know, same company, used to have the same team but most of them have left now. Not sure how you managed to miss the obvious but k. > > > > > > > > If they managed the split in GW1, they can manage it in GW2. It's *really* not difficult. In terms of programming they simply have the PVE skills as the parent class and the PVP child inherit everything, then change the children. PVE is the major focus of GW2 ergo the main balance perspective is PVE first. They can easily then do more balance passes for PVP based stuff without affecting PVE ever, and very simple to maintain too. > > > > > > > > PVE and PVP don't need continuity, you just have them entirely separate. > > > > > > Nothing obvious about it ... different game, different people, different **kind** of game even. Why anyone would think there should be any similarity in how they play or get balanced makes no sense to begin with. > > > > > > Again, I've provided a reasonable rational for why Anet would not use the split more than absolutely necessary. I would argue that continuity is important but obviously you're into attributing everything to incompetence based on your *cough* professional *cough* opinion about how easy it is instead of objective thought to why it's as it is now. Therefore, I see little point to present that argument with the risk we get regaled with more opinions from you. Clearly, Anet think there is SOME reason to not do what you easily think should be done ... so you should think about that and not assume that you just figured it all out for everyone based on your limited gamechair experiences. > > > > Except it's extremely obvious to anyone who actually bothers to think and/or read. > > > > you haven't provided anything that's reasonable nor rational. You are providing opinions and don't want to have to actually deal with an argument because you know you don't have anything. > > > > you claiming your opinion is rational or reasonable is hilarious, because it isn't. I highly suggest you learn to read posts thoroughly before commenting. > > > > continuity is not required because they are two very different game modes, and if you bothered to read my post, when i explained the code changes, i said how it'd make it actually easier. > > > > i don't expect a non-programmer to understand but kitten if i didn't simplify it > > I guess exercising the ability to think and/or read only applies when you want to insult someone; you should probably take some of your own advice. > > No one is arguing continuity is **required**; I said it appears to be important to Anet. There is very good evidence of this because they have actually REMOVED PVP/PVE splits that they have put in place; they clearly have SOME reason they do this. I believe continuity is one of a number of reasons for it. It’s unfortunate you haven’t thought about how or why Anet use splits this way or the possible reasons for it ... instead you have assumed the worst conclusion (Anet is incompetent) based on your feelings (Anger with a dash of salt), not the reality of what is happening. > > Here is what I like about your posts; you've managed to troll a bunch of people with this programming deflection. Unfortunately for you, the ability to program has nothing to do with determining what changes are needed to balance the game; those activities aren’t related at all. They are completely different skill sets. Being incompetent at programming doesn’t mean they are terrible at balance and being able to program doesn’t mean they are good at balancing; you have made that incorrect correlation. Figuring out what changes to make to balance is not the same as someone making the changes in the code. Your experience in programming in this discussion is actually clouding your opinion and isn’t even relevant, AT ALL. Programming is not a barrier that Anet is experiencing for balancing the game ... the very implication of such a thing is absurd. > > Good thing some of us are unread and non-thinking enough to understand these things I already take my own advice, you should. they removed the split because they're lazy and decided it was too much work. Prior to that they had expressed interest and attempts to split. Clearly however they've coded it, they made too much work for themselves. when they repeatedly balance for pvp and *don't* bother splitting for pve, yeah they deserve to be called out on it. When they repeatedly screw things up *just* to balance pvp (try, or think they're trying anyway), and don't bother making sure it doesn't affect pve (or just don't care), yeah, they deserved to be viewed as incompetent. i love the fact you claim troll because you don't have an argument or a point. Deflection much? The only one making a correlation between programming and game balance is you and perhaps the other kid. Since neither of you want to learn to read, i'll make it real simple so you can follow. - i pointed out how they could balance the skills separately - one dumb kid assumes i can't code - i'm happy to offer proof, he doesn't take me up on it (surprise surprise) - you and he both desperately try to deflect away Take the time to actually *read* posts next time, instead of spewing salt out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Its Nerfing Time.1495 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 > @"RUNICBLACK.7630" said: > Ha ha they themselves said that they couldn't remotely maintain balance in GW1 there was to many skill interactions to keep up with, sorry but using that as a supporting argument is funny . On the issue of being blind well I might be nearsighted but I'm not blind but I am bias but so is everybody. Hey seriously keep beating the drum on your argument to your hearts content nobody is listening any more I'm only continuing the conversation out of curiousity to see if you start suggesting some interesting ideas, but hey knock yourself out. And yet they managed it just fine in gw1 despite there being that many. by all means try to nervously move the conversation away from the fact you don't have an answer to my point, doesn't change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"TwiceDead.1963" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ragnarox.9601" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those two tomes were OP. Don’t overreact. Guardian got good buffs overall. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > LoL OP? While mesmers/mirages still oneshotting ppl. Yea good nerf, as I said, time for wow, my class is getting buffed there. While here every patch is constant nerfing and buffing something that will never be used, next balance patch will be buffing signets and spirit weapons again cause anet does have no clue nor anybody plays guardian in their balance kitten team. enjoy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hammer was played in PvP, and we got PvE buffs. Guardian has always been in a good spot game wise, don’t cry over some CD increases. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We got PVE nerfs, or are you just blind? Mores the fact we got PVE nerfs because of PVP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tomes don’t solely make a Guardian. The only nerf we got is some extra Tome CD added. I’m not blind, and can read fine. If you think Tomes are all that make Firebrand good, then I guess you need to sit down, and read the wiki. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did I say they made the Guardian? So yeah, you ARE blind. I suggest you learn how to build a character and the difference between PVE and PVP and how they should never interact > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Judging your overreaction over two nerfed tomes... **Yeah**, it's safe to assume they were carrying your world. I guess it's time to switch to new crutches. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't play PVP, only PVE. PVE and PVP should never ever affect one another, nice assumptions kid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you just play PvE, then why does this change matter to you at all? You never use Tomes on CD, and only use them when needing to block or burst heal. If you are using your Tomes on CD, then you aren’t playing well, and are actually destroying your healing, and support output. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do I need to bold it or something? PVE and PVP should never affect one another. These nerfs were clearly aimed at PVP yet Anet for god knows what reason, didn't split all of them > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A bit of an academic point but ... ideally, there isn't splitting of skills between PVP and PVE ... I think Anet do it as a last resort. There is reason for that; continuity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They did it back in GW1, back when the balance team were actually competent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now they're just an utter waste of space > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think anything that happened in GW1 has a bearing on GW2, so I don't see the relevance of mentioning it, ever .. unless you're absolutely salty. > > > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't change what I've said; Classes that have too many splits between PVP/PVE is not an ideal situation; they lack a feel of continuity. > > > > > > > > > > Other than the fact you know, same company, used to have the same team but most of them have left now. Not sure how you managed to miss the obvious but k. > > > > > > > > > > If they managed the split in GW1, they can manage it in GW2. It's *really* not difficult. In terms of programming they simply have the PVE skills as the parent class and the PVP child inherit everything, then change the children. PVE is the major focus of GW2 ergo the main balance perspective is PVE first. They can easily then do more balance passes for PVP based stuff without affecting PVE ever, and very simple to maintain too. > > > > > > > > > > PVE and PVP don't need continuity, you just have them entirely separate. > > > > > > > > Nothing obvious about it ... different game, different people, different **kind** of game even. Why anyone would think there should be any similarity in how they play or get balanced makes no sense to begin with. > > > > > > > > Again, I've provided a reasonable rational for why Anet would not use the split more than absolutely necessary. I would argue that continuity is important but obviously you're into attributing everything to incompetence based on your *cough* professional *cough* opinion about how easy it is instead of objective thought to why it's as it is now. Therefore, I see little point to present that argument with the risk we get regaled with more opinions from you. Clearly, Anet think there is SOME reason to not do what you easily think should be done ... so you should think about that and not assume that you just figured it all out for everyone based on your limited gamechair experiences. > > > > > > Except it's extremely obvious to anyone who actually bothers to think and/or read. > > > > > > you haven't provided anything that's reasonable nor rational. You are providing opinions and don't want to have to actually deal with an argument because you know you don't have anything. > > > > > > you claiming your opinion is rational or reasonable is hilarious, because it isn't. I highly suggest you learn to read posts thoroughly before commenting. > > > > > > continuity is not required because they are two very different game modes, and if you bothered to read my post, when i explained the code changes, i said how it'd make it actually easier. > > > > > > i don't expect a non-programmer to understand but kitten if i didn't simplify it > > > > I guess exercising the ability to think and/or read only applies when you want to insult someone; you should probably take some of your own advice. > > > > No one is arguing continuity is **required**; I said it appears to be important to Anet. There is very good evidence of this because they have actually REMOVED PVP/PVE splits that they have put in place; they clearly have SOME reason they do this. I believe continuity is one of a number of reasons for it. It’s unfortunate you haven’t thought about how or why Anet use splits this way or the possible reasons for it ... instead you have assumed the worst conclusion (Anet is incompetent) based on your feelings (Anger with a dash of salt), not the reality of what is happening. > > > > Here is what I like about your posts; you've managed to troll a bunch of people with this programming deflection. Unfortunately for you, the ability to program has nothing to do with determining what changes are needed to balance the game; those activities aren’t related at all. They are completely different skill sets. Being incompetent at programming doesn’t mean they are terrible at balance and being able to program doesn’t mean they are good at balancing; you have made that incorrect correlation. Figuring out what changes to make to balance is not the same as someone making the changes in the code. Your experience in programming in this discussion is actually clouding your opinion and isn’t even relevant, AT ALL. Programming is not a barrier that Anet is experiencing for balancing the game ... the very implication of such a thing is absurd. > > > > Good thing some of us are unread and non-thinking enough to understand these things > > I already take my own advice, you should. > > they removed the split because they're lazy and decided it was too much work. Prior to that they had expressed interest and attempts to split. Clearly however they've coded it, they made too much work for themselves. > > when they repeatedly balance for pvp and *don't* bother splitting for pve, yeah they deserve to be called out on it. When they repeatedly screw things up *just* to balance pvp (try, or think they're trying anyway), and don't bother making sure it doesn't affect pve (or just don't care), yeah, they deserved to be viewed as incompetent. > > i love the fact you claim troll because you don't have an argument or a point. Deflection much? > > The only one making a correlation between programming and game balance is you and perhaps the other kid. Since neither of you want to learn to read, i'll make it real simple so you can follow. > > - i pointed out how they could balance the skills separately > - one dumb kid assumes i can't code > - i'm happy to offer proof, he doesn't take me up on it (surprise surprise) > - you and he both desperately try to deflect away > > Take the time to actually *read* posts next time, instead of spewing salt out There is no deflection or salt here. If your programming skill wasn't relevant to the discussion, you shouldn't have been led by the nosering down that path to make it a point of debate OR to make it a position of authority for you to promote your ideas with. It's actualyl completely irrelevant how easy or hard it is to program whatever changes need to balance; like I already said, that's not the barrier to balance. The fact that you even bring that up as point demonstrates your lack of appreciation for what is necessary to achieve it. You don't need to point out how they could balance the skills out separately; we know they do that. We also know they merge them back ... you claim it's because lazy .. yet they **still** continue to split some and merge them. That doesn't make sense because lazy people simply don't make more work than they need to do for no reason. Again, you think with your feelings, not based on what's happening ingame. There isn't room for your emotions in this discussion; they simply aren't relevant. The amusing part is that you paint the picture that there is something exceptional going on here. I've yet to play a game where players like the PVP balance in an MMO. You're either new or you got an axe to grind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUNICBLACK.7630 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Hello Obtena anything interesting going on ? Just curious on your opinion (granted we don't always agree but who cares ) what is your personal take on this last balance patch as it relates to the Firebrand Tomes on the cool down increase and the change to Courageous Return trait as I stated earlier I feel that adjustment while be warranted has been over done and I feel Courageous Return's change in particular while being changed because of Firebrand fails to consider the impact of that change on the base Guardian or on Dragonhunter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"TwiceDead.1963" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ragnarox.9601" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those two tomes were OP. Don’t overreact. Guardian got good buffs overall. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > LoL OP? While mesmers/mirages still oneshotting ppl. Yea good nerf, as I said, time for wow, my class is getting buffed there. While here every patch is constant nerfing and buffing something that will never be used, next balance patch will be buffing signets and spirit weapons again cause anet does have no clue nor anybody plays guardian in their balance kitten team. enjoy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hammer was played in PvP, and we got PvE buffs. Guardian has always been in a good spot game wise, don’t cry over some CD increases. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We got PVE nerfs, or are you just blind? Mores the fact we got PVE nerfs because of PVP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tomes don’t solely make a Guardian. The only nerf we got is some extra Tome CD added. I’m not blind, and can read fine. If you think Tomes are all that make Firebrand good, then I guess you need to sit down, and read the wiki. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did I say they made the Guardian? So yeah, you ARE blind. I suggest you learn how to build a character and the difference between PVE and PVP and how they should never interact > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Judging your overreaction over two nerfed tomes... **Yeah**, it's safe to assume they were carrying your world. I guess it's time to switch to new crutches. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't play PVP, only PVE. PVE and PVP should never ever affect one another, nice assumptions kid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you just play PvE, then why does this change matter to you at all? You never use Tomes on CD, and only use them when needing to block or burst heal. If you are using your Tomes on CD, then you aren’t playing well, and are actually destroying your healing, and support output. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do I need to bold it or something? PVE and PVP should never affect one another. These nerfs were clearly aimed at PVP yet Anet for god knows what reason, didn't split all of them > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A bit of an academic point but ... ideally, there isn't splitting of skills between PVP and PVE ... I think Anet do it as a last resort. There is reason for that; continuity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They did it back in GW1, back when the balance team were actually competent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now they're just an utter waste of space > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think anything that happened in GW1 has a bearing on GW2, so I don't see the relevance of mentioning it, ever .. unless you're absolutely salty. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't change what I've said; Classes that have too many splits between PVP/PVE is not an ideal situation; they lack a feel of continuity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Other than the fact you know, same company, used to have the same team but most of them have left now. Not sure how you managed to miss the obvious but k. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they managed the split in GW1, they can manage it in GW2. It's *really* not difficult. In terms of programming they simply have the PVE skills as the parent class and the PVP child inherit everything, then change the children. PVE is the major focus of GW2 ergo the main balance perspective is PVE first. They can easily then do more balance passes for PVP based stuff without affecting PVE ever, and very simple to maintain too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PVE and PVP don't need continuity, you just have them entirely separate. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nothing obvious about it ... different game, different people, different **kind** of game even. Why anyone would think there should be any similarity in how they play or get balanced makes no sense to begin with. > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, I've provided a reasonable rational for why Anet would not use the split more than absolutely necessary. I would argue that continuity is important but obviously you're into attributing everything to incompetence based on your *cough* professional *cough* opinion about how easy it is instead of objective thought to why it's as it is now. Therefore, I see little point to present that argument with the risk we get regaled with more opinions from you. Clearly, Anet think there is SOME reason to not do what you easily think should be done ... so you should think about that and not assume that you just figured it all out for everyone based on your limited gamechair experiences. > > > > > > > > > > Except it's extremely obvious to anyone who actually bothers to think and/or read. > > > > > > > > > > you haven't provided anything that's reasonable nor rational. You are providing opinions and don't want to have to actually deal with an argument because you know you don't have anything. > > > > > > > > > > you claiming your opinion is rational or reasonable is hilarious, because it isn't. I highly suggest you learn to read posts thoroughly before commenting. > > > > > > > > > > continuity is not required because they are two very different game modes, and if you bothered to read my post, when i explained the code changes, i said how it'd make it actually easier. > > > > > > > > > > i don't expect a non-programmer to understand but kitten if i didn't simplify it > > > > > > > > I guess exercising the ability to think and/or read only applies when you want to insult someone; you should probably take some of your own advice. > > > > > > > > No one is arguing continuity is **required**; I said it appears to be important to Anet. There is very good evidence of this because they have actually REMOVED PVP/PVE splits that they have put in place; they clearly have SOME reason they do this. I believe continuity is one of a number of reasons for it. It’s unfortunate you haven’t thought about how or why Anet use splits this way or the possible reasons for it ... instead you have assumed the worst conclusion (Anet is incompetent) based on your feelings (Anger with a dash of salt), not the reality of what is happening. > > > > > > > > Here is what I like about your posts; you've managed to troll a bunch of people with this programming deflection. Unfortunately for you, the ability to program has nothing to do with determining what changes are needed to balance the game; those activities aren’t related at all. They are completely different skill sets. Being incompetent at programming doesn’t mean they are terrible at balance and being able to program doesn’t mean they are good at balancing; you have made that incorrect correlation. Figuring out what changes to make to balance is not the same as someone making the changes in the code. Your experience in programming in this discussion is actually clouding your opinion and isn’t even relevant, AT ALL. Programming is not a barrier that Anet is experiencing for balancing the game ... the very implication of such a thing is absurd. > > > > > > > > Good thing some of us are unread and non-thinking enough to understand these things > > > > > > I already take my own advice, you should. > > > > > > they removed the split because they're lazy and decided it was too much work. Prior to that they had expressed interest and attempts to split. Clearly however they've coded it, they made too much work for themselves. > > > > > > when they repeatedly balance for pvp and *don't* bother splitting for pve, yeah they deserve to be called out on it. When they repeatedly screw things up *just* to balance pvp (try, or think they're trying anyway), and don't bother making sure it doesn't affect pve (or just don't care), yeah, they deserved to be viewed as incompetent. > > > > > > i love the fact you claim troll because you don't have an argument or a point. Deflection much? > > > > > > The only one making a correlation between programming and game balance is you and perhaps the other kid. Since neither of you want to learn to read, i'll make it real simple so you can follow. > > > > > > - i pointed out how they could balance the skills separately > > > - one dumb kid assumes i can't code > > > - i'm happy to offer proof, he doesn't take me up on it (surprise surprise) > > > - you and he both desperately try to deflect away > > > > > > Take the time to actually *read* posts next time, instead of spewing salt out > > > > There is no deflection or salt here. If your programming skill wasn't relevant to the discussion, you shouldn't have been led by the nosering down that path to make it a point of debate OR to make it a position of authority for you to promote your ideas with. It's actualyl completely irrelevant how easy or hard it is to program whatever changes need to balance; like I already said, that's not the barrier to balance. The fact that you even bring that up as point demonstrates your lack of appreciation for what is necessary to achieve it. > > > > You don't need to point out how they could balance the skills out separately; we know they do that. We also know they merge them back ... you claim it's because lazy .. yet they **still** continue to split some and merge them. That doesn't make sense because lazy people simply don't make more work than they need to do for no reason. Again, you think with your feelings, not based on what's happening ingame. There isn't room for your emotions in this discussion; they simply aren't relevant. > > > > The amusing part is that you paint the picture that there is something exceptional going on here. I've yet to play a game where players like the PVP balance in an MMO. You're either new or you got an axe to grind. > > > > And yet again you completely miss the point and gloss over anything that counters your narrative, most amusing. > > i brought up the point regarding programming and balance, because for whatever reason, you seem to want to focus on that (the completely wrong thing only you are talking about) > > lazy people don't make more work for themselves, they make less. Anet had 0 understanding of how much work they'd have to do for the splitting, so when they figured it out, they started decreasing the splits. > > the only one getting emotional here is you, as said, the salt in your posts. > > who said pvp players like the balance? Not sure where you got that from. What i said was that they are balancing, or trying to balance, for pvp and not bothering to seperately balance pve. And I provided you a reason (one of a few I can think of) as why they don't separate them. You basically threw that back at me like I was some kind of idiot who can't read or think. Wonderful. yes, you countered that PVE and PVP are separate ... but they really aren't because the class theme determines how it plays and there are players that play both with the same class. That's why I think Anet is using splits as a last resort to fix things they don't have good answers for, not as a vehicle for balance in either game mode ... of course, you ignored that because it's not on your agenda. No, Anet has not decreased the splits ... the fact is that they are doing the splits THEN merging some of them and we continue to get more splits every patch, including the last balance patch we had in December. And these things you attribute to laziness and incompetence since you think Anet is a "utter waste of space" (did I get that right? And I'm the salty one? Sure!). No, that's not the reason they are doing those things. You're just making up whatever you want to have a baseless argument ... all because you don't like the how the game works. What a fantastic view into your character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 > @"RUNICBLACK.7630" said: > Hello Obtena anything interesting going on ? Just curious on your opinion (granted we don't always agree but who cares ) what is your personal take on this last balance patch as it relates to the Firebrand Tomes on the cool down increase and the change to Courageous Return trait as I stated earlier I feel that adjustment while be warranted has been over done and I feel Courageous Return's change in particular while being changed because of Firebrand fails to consider the impact of that change on the base Guardian or on Dragonhunter. Got your message, missed your post. No problem; back on topic: I don't have a problem with the Tome CD change because I believe having tome cooldowns layered with tome skill cooldowns on reactionary skills is flawed design to begin with. Let's take Tome of Resolve for example; We can pretty much sum up all of it's tome skills as 1) heals or 2) condition removals ... things you do to react to low HP and conditions. If I'm going to hit F2 while I'm in a fight, why would I EVER just use only one or two skills, and then leave it so it goes full CD? That's a flawed implementation IMO. How much healing or condi removal does ANYONE need in a period it takes to execute all the pages in that tome? NO one is going to sit in a tome and wait out a CD on a tome skill losing damage, especially if they have lots of duplication of effects. They are just going to use the skills they need, then pop the rest for a fast out (because there is significant duplication) and easy buffage. Same with F3 ... why WOULDN'T you faceroll that one if you are already in it? **TLDR**: The tomes are too 1 dimensional to give players choice, so they 'misuse' them as their best option (deja vu for Mesmer Phantasm nerf anyone?) That's a guess because can't predict how everyone plays, but what is more likely is that Anet saw a behaviour in players using F2 and F3 and realized that the implementation doesn't do what they intended and I believe the increase in CD skills is a reaction to what they saw that they didn't like. I speculate that Longer CD's = more thoughtful usage of skills. To be clear, I don't like it because it just makes the idea of playing FB less interesting from Tomes use. I mean, who needs 3 condition cleanse skills from a tome that you can pop over 3 seconds, but use only every 50 seconds? That turns these tomes into one BIG hotbar skill for heal and condi removal. For example FB F2 is just one super expanded version of Signet of Resolve with a complicated CD structure ... the 5 skills you get in a tome are an illusion of choice with these large cooldowns. **TLDR**: Anet didn't like how players were 'misusing' the tomes this way and forced more value in timing of tome use with increased ICDs Courageous Return ... It's kind of a neutral change to me. I think the removal of ICD makes up for the complete recharge (Complete recharge was a bit much I think). I guess if you are rallying/reviving, you are probably doing it pretty frequently. I didn't really put much thought into it because it's a trait you get for free whether you like it or not so it is what it is; I doesn't really affect my approach to playing the class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUNICBLACK.7630 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > Courageous Return ... It's kind of a neutral change to me. I think the removal of ICD makes up for the complete recharge (Complete recharge was a bit much I think). I guess if you are rallying/reviving, you are probably doing it pretty frequently. I didn't really put much thought into it because it's a trait you get for free whether you like it or not so it is what it is; I doesn't really affect my approach to playing the class. > I actually missed seeing the removal of the ICD on Courageous Return so there is that and while agree that is wasn't a trait that there is any choice involved except with regard to picking the Valor line in the first place but from personal experience that in most games type but particularly in the WvW or PvP setting if you are rallying/reviving alot you probably are not in a winning situation in most instances. Furthermore consider the fact that this trait has been fine for over 6 years of the game with a multitude of balance patches where as now with the somewhat wonky introduction of the Firebrand and their attempt to offset the style of play that came with it that they felt the need to implement this change across the board for the class and its various Elite sub specializations again this comes back to over playing the numbers. I'm hoping that they revisit this at some point but as is usually the case it comes down to a matter of wait an see. Good talking to you even when we disagree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Its Nerfing Time.1495 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"TwiceDead.1963" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ragnarox.9601" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those two tomes were OP. Don’t overreact. Guardian got good buffs overall. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > LoL OP? While mesmers/mirages still oneshotting ppl. Yea good nerf, as I said, time for wow, my class is getting buffed there. While here every patch is constant nerfing and buffing something that will never be used, next balance patch will be buffing signets and spirit weapons again cause anet does have no clue nor anybody plays guardian in their balance kitten team. enjoy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hammer was played in PvP, and we got PvE buffs. Guardian has always been in a good spot game wise, don’t cry over some CD increases. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We got PVE nerfs, or are you just blind? Mores the fact we got PVE nerfs because of PVP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tomes don’t solely make a Guardian. The only nerf we got is some extra Tome CD added. I’m not blind, and can read fine. If you think Tomes are all that make Firebrand good, then I guess you need to sit down, and read the wiki. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did I say they made the Guardian? So yeah, you ARE blind. I suggest you learn how to build a character and the difference between PVE and PVP and how they should never interact > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Judging your overreaction over two nerfed tomes... **Yeah**, it's safe to assume they were carrying your world. I guess it's time to switch to new crutches. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't play PVP, only PVE. PVE and PVP should never ever affect one another, nice assumptions kid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you just play PvE, then why does this change matter to you at all? You never use Tomes on CD, and only use them when needing to block or burst heal. If you are using your Tomes on CD, then you aren’t playing well, and are actually destroying your healing, and support output. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do I need to bold it or something? PVE and PVP should never affect one another. These nerfs were clearly aimed at PVP yet Anet for god knows what reason, didn't split all of them > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A bit of an academic point but ... ideally, there isn't splitting of skills between PVP and PVE ... I think Anet do it as a last resort. There is reason for that; continuity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They did it back in GW1, back when the balance team were actually competent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now they're just an utter waste of space > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think anything that happened in GW1 has a bearing on GW2, so I don't see the relevance of mentioning it, ever .. unless you're absolutely salty. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't change what I've said; Classes that have too many splits between PVP/PVE is not an ideal situation; they lack a feel of continuity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Other than the fact you know, same company, used to have the same team but most of them have left now. Not sure how you managed to miss the obvious but k. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they managed the split in GW1, they can manage it in GW2. It's *really* not difficult. In terms of programming they simply have the PVE skills as the parent class and the PVP child inherit everything, then change the children. PVE is the major focus of GW2 ergo the main balance perspective is PVE first. They can easily then do more balance passes for PVP based stuff without affecting PVE ever, and very simple to maintain too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PVE and PVP don't need continuity, you just have them entirely separate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nothing obvious about it ... different game, different people, different **kind** of game even. Why anyone would think there should be any similarity in how they play or get balanced makes no sense to begin with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, I've provided a reasonable rational for why Anet would not use the split more than absolutely necessary. I would argue that continuity is important but obviously you're into attributing everything to incompetence based on your *cough* professional *cough* opinion about how easy it is instead of objective thought to why it's as it is now. Therefore, I see little point to present that argument with the risk we get regaled with more opinions from you. Clearly, Anet think there is SOME reason to not do what you easily think should be done ... so you should think about that and not assume that you just figured it all out for everyone based on your limited gamechair experiences. > > > > > > > > > > > > Except it's extremely obvious to anyone who actually bothers to think and/or read. > > > > > > > > > > > > you haven't provided anything that's reasonable nor rational. You are providing opinions and don't want to have to actually deal with an argument because you know you don't have anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > you claiming your opinion is rational or reasonable is hilarious, because it isn't. I highly suggest you learn to read posts thoroughly before commenting. > > > > > > > > > > > > continuity is not required because they are two very different game modes, and if you bothered to read my post, when i explained the code changes, i said how it'd make it actually easier. > > > > > > > > > > > > i don't expect a non-programmer to understand but kitten if i didn't simplify it > > > > > > > > > > I guess exercising the ability to think and/or read only applies when you want to insult someone; you should probably take some of your own advice. > > > > > > > > > > No one is arguing continuity is **required**; I said it appears to be important to Anet. There is very good evidence of this because they have actually REMOVED PVP/PVE splits that they have put in place; they clearly have SOME reason they do this. I believe continuity is one of a number of reasons for it. It’s unfortunate you haven’t thought about how or why Anet use splits this way or the possible reasons for it ... instead you have assumed the worst conclusion (Anet is incompetent) based on your feelings (Anger with a dash of salt), not the reality of what is happening. > > > > > > > > > > Here is what I like about your posts; you've managed to troll a bunch of people with this programming deflection. Unfortunately for you, the ability to program has nothing to do with determining what changes are needed to balance the game; those activities aren’t related at all. They are completely different skill sets. Being incompetent at programming doesn’t mean they are terrible at balance and being able to program doesn’t mean they are good at balancing; you have made that incorrect correlation. Figuring out what changes to make to balance is not the same as someone making the changes in the code. Your experience in programming in this discussion is actually clouding your opinion and isn’t even relevant, AT ALL. Programming is not a barrier that Anet is experiencing for balancing the game ... the very implication of such a thing is absurd. > > > > > > > > > > Good thing some of us are unread and non-thinking enough to understand these things > > > > > > > > I already take my own advice, you should. > > > > > > > > they removed the split because they're lazy and decided it was too much work. Prior to that they had expressed interest and attempts to split. Clearly however they've coded it, they made too much work for themselves. > > > > > > > > when they repeatedly balance for pvp and *don't* bother splitting for pve, yeah they deserve to be called out on it. When they repeatedly screw things up *just* to balance pvp (try, or think they're trying anyway), and don't bother making sure it doesn't affect pve (or just don't care), yeah, they deserved to be viewed as incompetent. > > > > > > > > i love the fact you claim troll because you don't have an argument or a point. Deflection much? > > > > > > > > The only one making a correlation between programming and game balance is you and perhaps the other kid. Since neither of you want to learn to read, i'll make it real simple so you can follow. > > > > > > > > - i pointed out how they could balance the skills separately > > > > - one dumb kid assumes i can't code > > > > - i'm happy to offer proof, he doesn't take me up on it (surprise surprise) > > > > - you and he both desperately try to deflect away > > > > > > > > Take the time to actually *read* posts next time, instead of spewing salt out > > > > > > There is no deflection or salt here. If your programming skill wasn't relevant to the discussion, you shouldn't have been led by the nosering down that path to make it a point of debate OR to make it a position of authority for you to promote your ideas with. It's actualyl completely irrelevant how easy or hard it is to program whatever changes need to balance; like I already said, that's not the barrier to balance. The fact that you even bring that up as point demonstrates your lack of appreciation for what is necessary to achieve it. > > > > > > You don't need to point out how they could balance the skills out separately; we know they do that. We also know they merge them back ... you claim it's because lazy .. yet they **still** continue to split some and merge them. That doesn't make sense because lazy people simply don't make more work than they need to do for no reason. Again, you think with your feelings, not based on what's happening ingame. There isn't room for your emotions in this discussion; they simply aren't relevant. > > > > > > The amusing part is that you paint the picture that there is something exceptional going on here. I've yet to play a game where players like the PVP balance in an MMO. You're either new or you got an axe to grind. > > > > > > > And yet again you completely miss the point and gloss over anything that counters your narrative, most amusing. > > > > i brought up the point regarding programming and balance, because for whatever reason, you seem to want to focus on that (the completely wrong thing only you are talking about) > > > > lazy people don't make more work for themselves, they make less. Anet had 0 understanding of how much work they'd have to do for the splitting, so when they figured it out, they started decreasing the splits. > > > > the only one getting emotional here is you, as said, the salt in your posts. > > > > who said pvp players like the balance? Not sure where you got that from. What i said was that they are balancing, or trying to balance, for pvp and not bothering to seperately balance pve. > > And I provided you a reason (one of a few I can think of) as why they don't separate them. You basically threw that back at me like I was some kind of idiot who can't read or think. Wonderful. yes, you countered that PVE and PVP are separate ... but they really aren't because the class theme determines how it plays and there are players that play both with the same class. That's why I think Anet is using splits as a last resort to fix things they don't have good answers for, not as a vehicle for balance in either game mode ... of course, you ignored that because it's not on your agenda. > > No, Anet has not decreased the splits ... the fact is that they are doing the splits THEN merging some of them and we continue to get more splits every patch, including the last balance patch we had in December. And these things you attribute to laziness and incompetence since you think Anet is a "utter waste of space" (did I get that right? And I'm the salty one? Sure!). No, that's not the reason they are doing those things. You're just making up whatever you want to have a baseless argument ... all because you don't like the how the game works. What a fantastic view into your character. And yet you can't read because you haven't bothered to read my posts (properly or at all* since you first quoted me, that much is clear. the class theme is irrelevant, pve and pvp are/should always be balanced separately because they are two different games essentially. Mob ai is nothing like a real person, mob stats nothing like player stats. Players can create combos that are ridiculous against others, but only generally effective or meh against mobs. There's 1001 reasons why you split the balance, let alone don't allow the balance to spill over from one mode to another. yeah, the reason they don't is a i've stated countless times. the only one with a baseless argument is you, hence *why* you are getting increasingly salty with your posts. You can't handle being called out on it at all. That's your problem not mine. anet is doing less splits to save on work. Go take a look at the balance patches, you know, *actually* do some work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 > @"RUNICBLACK.7630" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > Courageous Return ... It's kind of a neutral change to me. I think the removal of ICD makes up for the complete recharge (Complete recharge was a bit much I think). I guess if you are rallying/reviving, you are probably doing it pretty frequently. I didn't really put much thought into it because it's a trait you get for free whether you like it or not so it is what it is; I doesn't really affect my approach to playing the class. > > > I actually missed seeing the removal of the ICD on Courageous Return so there is that and while agree that is wasn't a trait that there is any choice involved except with regard to picking the Valor line in the first place but from personal experience that in most games type but particularly in the WvW or PvP setting if you are rallying/reviving alot you probably are not in a winning situation in most instances. Furthermore consider the fact that this trait has been fine for over 6 years of the game with a multitude of balance patches where as now with the somewhat wonky introduction of the Firebrand and their attempt to offset the style of play that came with it that they felt the need to implement this change across the board for the class and its various Elite sub specializations again this comes back to over playing the numbers. I'm hoping that they revisit this at some point but as is usually the case it comes down to a matter of wait an see. > Good talking to you even when we disagree > It’s true, I had not thought about the fact that it CR wasn’t changed until Anet increased ICD on Tome of Courage. I can only guess that of all the options available to Anet, this one is the least horrible tasting. Even not in FB, getting a full recharge on F3 seems really rewarding for something as simple as a revive. I think the lowest ICD you can get on F3 is like 45 seconds if you trait Virtue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUNICBLACK.7630 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 I can agree that a full recharge of the cool down might be excessive when looked at with regard to the possible tools that are available to them address the to Tomes issue but I would think that increasing that cool down reduction from the present amount of 10 seconds to possibly 30 seconds would prevent easy recharge access to the Time of Courage while still incentive the risk involved in reviving a down team mate in a hot PvP match, but that is just my take on the issue Understandably with the tools available there may not have been easy answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonewolf Kai.3682 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"RUNICBLACK.7630" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > Courageous Return ... It's kind of a neutral change to me. I think the removal of ICD makes up for the complete recharge (Complete recharge was a bit much I think). I guess if you are rallying/reviving, you are probably doing it pretty frequently. I didn't really put much thought into it because it's a trait you get for free whether you like it or not so it is what it is; I doesn't really affect my approach to playing the class. > > > > > I actually missed seeing the removal of the ICD on Courageous Return so there is that and while agree that is wasn't a trait that there is any choice involved except with regard to picking the Valor line in the first place but from personal experience that in most games type but particularly in the WvW or PvP setting if you are rallying/reviving alot you probably are not in a winning situation in most instances. Furthermore consider the fact that this trait has been fine for over 6 years of the game with a multitude of balance patches where as now with the somewhat wonky introduction of the Firebrand and their attempt to offset the style of play that came with it that they felt the need to implement this change across the board for the class and its various Elite sub specializations again this comes back to over playing the numbers. I'm hoping that they revisit this at some point but as is usually the case it comes down to a matter of wait an see. > > Good talking to you even when we disagree > > > > It’s true, I had not thought about the fact that it CR wasn’t changed until Anet increased ICD on Tome of Courage. I can only guess that of all the options available to Anet, this one is the least horrible tasting. Even not in FB, getting a full recharge on F3 seems really rewarding for something as simple as a revive. I think the lowest ICD you can get on F3 is like 45 seconds if you trait Virtue? Perhaps that is why the cd for courage was increased. Unfortunately it’s a hefty nerf for those of us who don’t use cr or the virtues traitline. I’ve already adjusted to it though and work with what I have. After playing the game since pre-release, I’ve learned to deal with nerfs or in some cases, just move onto a different class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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