DeceiverX.8361 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > @"Ragnarox.9601" said: > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > Those two tomes were OP. Don’t overreact. Guardian got good buffs overall. > > > > > > LoL OP? While mesmers/mirages still oneshotting ppl. Yea good nerf, as I said, time for wow, my class is getting buffed there. While here every patch is constant nerfing and buffing something that will never be used, next balance patch will be buffing signets and spirit weapons again cause anet does have no clue nor anybody plays guardian in their balance kitten team. enjoy. > > > > Hammer was played in PvP, and we got PvE buffs. Guardian has always been in a good spot game wise, don’t cry over some CD increases. > > > > > > We got PVE nerfs, or are you just blind? Mores the fact we got PVE nerfs because of PVP For the first time ever, now you know how it's felt for the PvP players for the past six years who have gotten completely shafted thanks to PvE design and balance being ANet's sole priority. Granted, the PvP modes lost the bulk of their playerbases years ago because of how bad the balance and design in the PvP context has historically been lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threather.9354 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 WvW opinion: It seems fine. Firebrand was overtuned, there are other ways to get heals and cleanse. I am not sure about nerfing F3 tome CD in general instead of the resistance field in it. SYG 10 target should make up for lack of stab. (Sadly optimal setup now would be multiple 10 man squads with 5 man parties) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iced Ruff Roll.8621 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Guardian rip. The weakest class in the duel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoknocks.4935 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 > @"Ragnarox.9601" said: > I dont get it, its kitten up in wvw now also....30%-50% cd increased...what the hell, while mesmer stay still op as kitten in wvw. . Anet you have no clue, back to world of warcraft it seems. No more money for you from me. Mesmer op as hell? They completely removed from the game boon chrono. I don't think you are talking of roaming, otherwise maybe you didn't understand wvw that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odinens.5920 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 > @"otto.5684" said: > The tomes where going to get nerfed since FB support is surely game breaking in PvP. In my opinion what Anet should have focused on is cutting the heal scaling in PvP, but Anet defaulted to the lazy approach of increasing CD. Got news for you - I actually DID try my full minstrel support build out with these changes last night...don't be hating on FBs now when you see them standing around lookin at the clouds in the middle of a fight cuz they have nothing to do, because they have to wait so long for tomes to come off CD they've also had to blow all their utility CDs. "Sorry guys....everything on CD, can't help you for another 20-25 seconds" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 > @"Odinens.5920" said: > > @"otto.5684" said: > > The tomes where going to get nerfed since FB support is surely game breaking in PvP. In my opinion what Anet should have focused on is cutting the heal scaling in PvP, but Anet defaulted to the lazy approach of increasing CD. > > Got news for you - I actually DID try my full minstrel support build out with these changes last night...don't be hating on FBs now when you see them standing around lookin at the clouds in the middle of a fight cuz they have nothing to do, because they have to wait so long for tomes to come off CD they've also had to blow all their utility CDs. "Sorry guys....everything on CD, can't help you for another 20-25 seconds" You know that there are other skills to use beside tomes. And you obviously did not read my post where I mentioned that I do not agree with increase in CD. In any case, a nerf was coming and it is deserved. Sadly it was done in a lazy approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcaedus.7290 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 > @"Lonewolf Kai.3682" said: > > @"Arcaedus.7290" said: > > While I like that this means support firebrands in competitive game modes are going to actually be killable, this is going to be an enormous hit to all of those harrier's/offence-based firebrand builds. Those builds don't take virtues traitline since they can't, meaning they're stuck with these extremely long cooldowns on their class functions. > > This is the boat I’m in. I play an off-meta build that used Griever stats and now I’m thinking heavy nerfs to it. I’ll keep an open mind about it, but I may have to change one of my traitlines for something else compensate. That’ll nerf my damage even more though. :( If you find something, let me know! From my experience, playing a condi/hybrid firebrand earlier on, and playing harrier's now, you absolutely have to make good use of your tomes for sustain since FB has very poor sustain otherwise. Although there have been some buffs to FB, mainly the traits and axe, the heavy nerf to the tome CDs mean fights will probably be over for you sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odinens.5920 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 > @"otto.5684" said: > > @"Odinens.5920" said: > > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > The tomes where going to get nerfed since FB support is surely game breaking in PvP. In my opinion what Anet should have focused on is cutting the heal scaling in PvP, but Anet defaulted to the lazy approach of increasing CD. > > > > Got news for you - I actually DID try my full minstrel support build out with these changes last night...don't be hating on FBs now when you see them standing around lookin at the clouds in the middle of a fight cuz they have nothing to do, because they have to wait so long for tomes to come off CD they've also had to blow all their utility CDs. "Sorry guys....everything on CD, can't help you for another 20-25 seconds" > > You know that there are other skills to use beside tomes. And you obviously did not read my post where I mentioned that I do not agree with increase in CD. > > In any case, a nerf was coming and it is deserved. Sadly it was done in a lazy approach. Yes, look above. I mentioned blowing utility CDs while waiting for the stupidly long tome CDs. Sorry, I'm a bit frustrated with this shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Orion.2049 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 > @"Odinens.5920" said: > Yes, look above. I mentioned blowing utility CDs while waiting for the stupidly long tome CDs. > > Sorry, I'm a bit frustrated with this kitten. Which is understandable as my buddy who created a FB to run with our small roam group experienced this last night. While supporting us, he was complaining that something is wrong with FB (he didn't realize there was a balance yesterday.) By his own admission, he is basically a button masher. He has some grasp of rotation, but FB isn't his main and still doesn't understand the full mechanics of it. He would basically just throw out Tomes like it was confetti, and believe you me I loved every minute of it as a power SB. However, to me that came across as requiring little skill to use the class, as virtually anyone can run it and fake looking like a master. Now, rotation, skill, timing and some common sense is now required to fully utilize the class. That said, the 25 sec increase is too much of a slap, where a 10 to 15 sec would have been much more reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartacus.3192 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 My Harrier/Cele (roaming) FB is much weaker now since i absolutely needed the tomes especially F1 burn tome. It was already at a disadvantage to most classes but i enjoyed playing it occasionally. Now its just completely out matched by a long way by my spellbreaker/holo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUNICBLACK.7630 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 My main concern is that while it can be argued that the Tomes needed to be modified the the impact that the increased CD , particularly on the Tome of Courage is beyond anything that could be considered reasonable and honestly I find it hard believe there is any real justification to put this heavy handed approach on the PvE use of these skills. This is the Dragonhunter nerf revisited , over compensating the degree of the nerf for PvP and WvW and then apply it to PvE where it isn't really needed but at least when they did it to the DH it could be said that they weren't splitting the skills between game modes which they have since recanted. Now they split the skills constantly between game modes but DH has not gained much of what was lost and here we go again but now it's on the Firebrand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 > @"RUNICBLACK.7630" said: > My main concern is that while it can be argued that the Tomes needed to be modified the the impact that the increased CD , particularly on the Tome of Courage is beyond anything that could be considered reasonable and honestly I find it hard believe there is any real justification to put this heavy handed approach on the PvE use of these skills. This is the Dragonhunter nerf revisited , over compensating the degree of the nerf for PvP and WvW and then apply it to PvE where it isn't really needed but at least when they did it to the DH it could be said that they weren't splitting the skills between game modes which they have since recanted. Now they split the skills constantly between game modes but DH has not gained much of what was lost and here we go again but now it's on the Firebrand. > I do not understand the PvE nerf either. Initially I though it was PvP only, but that is not the case. This is really silly considering that with the ToR and ToC active you do not deal damage. Not to mention that initially the tomes had long CD and subsequently the CDs were reduced cuz the long CD deemed the tomes unviable in PvP. I have no fucking idea what is Anet class balance evaluation, beside realizing that something is over performing. This guess game of whack mole in buffs and nerfs seriously needs to stop. It is significantly destructive to diversity. Things are either over performing or rendered useless. The changes never seem to put something where it needs to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axxo.7430 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 **My question to the Devs is simple - ** Is Tome usage in PVE environment so overly powered ? Did the whole squad/team face-rolled over every content easily with the Tomes CD ? What does the increase of CD relates to if the previous 2 questions cannot be answered ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kicast.1459 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 > @"otto.5684" said: > This guess game of whack mole in buffs and nerfs seriously needs to stop. It is significantly destructive to diversity. Things are either over performing or rendered useless. The changes never seem to put something where it needs to be. I think it is their strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zinkz.7045 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > @"Ragnarox.9601" said: > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > Those two tomes were OP. Don’t overreact. Guardian got good buffs overall. > > > > > > > > LoL OP? While mesmers/mirages still oneshotting ppl. Yea good nerf, as I said, time for wow, my class is getting buffed there. While here every patch is constant nerfing and buffing something that will never be used, next balance patch will be buffing signets and spirit weapons again cause anet does have no clue nor anybody plays guardian in their balance kitten team. enjoy. > > > > > > Hammer was played in PvP, and we got PvE buffs. Guardian has always been in a good spot game wise, don’t cry over some CD increases. > > > > > > > > > > We got PVE nerfs, or are you just blind? Mores the fact we got PVE nerfs because of PVP > > For the first time ever, now you know how it's felt for the PvP players for the past six years who have gotten completely shafted thanks to PvE design and balance being ANet's sole priority. The game (as in combat mechanics, skills, etc) was designed around PvP, go find Sacrx's ("famous" WvW player) video about alpha which stated everything was about what Teldo and Co thought in PvP whilst WvW/PvE were virtually ignored when it came to combat / balance. Which of course goes with what the game was originally about, PvP was the serious bit, whilst PvE/WvW were meant to be just casual fun. Which is also why earlier in the game when the devs used to do Twitch streams after balance patches it was 90-100% in relation to PvP, because guess what that is what they balanced on. You even had changes made based on devs watching PvP streamers, e.g - Rocket Boots was changed to go forward instead of backward as it originally was, based on Teldo saying it would be better that way in a stream Jon Peters (if I remember correctly) was watching. They only started to meaningfully balance on PvE when they added raids with HoT. The only players who have been "shafted" are WvW players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUNICBLACK.7630 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 Just to point something to anyone trying to justify the heavy handed increase in the Tome cool down , particularly on the Tome of Courage, 75 second increase is equivalent to putting that on the Elementalist attunement swap for Earth but remember difference is ToC is apparently overwhelming powerful because unless you trait it only skill 2 does any damage and again without a trait none of the skills heal , it plays to a bunker build which again and again the have had a tenancy to depower but when they have on a Guardian they rarely have put anything in to compensate. Case in point was replacing Retributive Armor which gave 250 Toughness for 5 seconds when you successfully blocked an attack and gave you Ferocity equal to 13% of your Toughness and what it was replaced with was Tenacious Defense which would lower the cool down on the Virtue of Courage by 1 second everytime Aegis successfully blocks an attack and this is "Supposed to be a Grandmaster Trait!" the trade off is a joke and just look a the Guardian staff it took them a year Aug 2017 Wave of Wrath range dropped from 600 to 300 to Aug 2018 before they rework on the staff gave the Bolt of Wrath with 1200. I'm not saying anything stupid like rage quit or anything but what I am saying is we should be more vocal with intelligent criticism and put out our ideas for improvement after all the complaints and ideas for the staff never really stopped. Admittedly this is still no guarantee but it at least it will show that we are engaged. Just my two cents for what it's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkeyspit.3965 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > @"TwiceDead.1963" said: > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ragnarox.9601" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > > Those two tomes were OP. Don’t overreact. Guardian got good buffs overall. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > LoL OP? While mesmers/mirages still oneshotting ppl. Yea good nerf, as I said, time for wow, my class is getting buffed there. While here every patch is constant nerfing and buffing something that will never be used, next balance patch will be buffing signets and spirit weapons again cause anet does have no clue nor anybody plays guardian in their balance kitten team. enjoy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hammer was played in PvP, and we got PvE buffs. Guardian has always been in a good spot game wise, don’t cry over some CD increases. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We got PVE nerfs, or are you just blind? Mores the fact we got PVE nerfs because of PVP > > > > > > > > > > > > Tomes don’t solely make a Guardian. The only nerf we got is some extra Tome CD added. I’m not blind, and can read fine. If you think Tomes are all that make Firebrand good, then I guess you need to sit down, and read the wiki. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did I say they made the Guardian? So yeah, you ARE blind. I suggest you learn how to build a character and the difference between PVE and PVP and how they should never interact > > > > > > > > Judging your overreaction over two nerfed tomes... **Yeah**, it's safe to assume they were carrying your world. I guess it's time to switch to new crutches. > > > > > > I don't play PVP, only PVE. PVE and PVP should never ever affect one another, nice assumptions kid. > > > > If you just play PvE, then why does this change matter to you at all? You never use Tomes on CD, and only use them when needing to block or burst heal. If you are using your Tomes on CD, then you aren’t playing well, and are actually destroying your healing, and support output. > > > > > > Do I need to bold it or something? PVE and PVP should never affect one another. These nerfs were clearly aimed at PVP yet Anet for god knows what reason, didn't split all of them It is an odd change, at least to me. Support FB is jaw droopingly powerful in WvW squads. Nobody with any knowledge of the matter would argue that. But did FB need these CD nerfs for PvE? I don't know. As far as I know, FB isn't the go-to support spec for raids or fractals (that would be Druid), so I can't see how they would be outperforming other professions in the same role. Add to that, ANET has already given different cooldowns to abilities in game modes: Revenant is a perfect example, as it has longer cooldowns on some abilities in WvW/sPvP than in PvE. If there is a reason for it, I don't know what it is. Looks more like collateral damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAgedGnome.7520 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said: -snip- > Support FB is jaw droopingly powerful in WvW squads. Nobody with any knowledge of the matter would argue that. But did FB need these CD nerfs for PvE? I don't know. As far as I know, FB isn't the go-to support spec for raids or fractals (that would be Druid), so I can't see how they would be outperforming other professions in the same role. > > Add to that, ANET has already given different cooldowns to abilities in game modes: Revenant is a perfect example, as it has longer cooldowns on some abilities in WvW/sPvP than in PvE. > > If there is a reason for it, I don't know what it is. Looks more like collateral damage. I'm baffled by this too. The only thing that comes to mind is that maybe they thought: * mesmer boon nerfs would result in an increased demand for FBs in PVE * then groups would substitute FB as boon supplier instead of mesmer * but this violates the goal of not having one go-to boon class * since they couldn't nerf the strength of FB's F2 and F3 without terrible consequences, they had to reduce the boon availability via cooldowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam.4092 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 > @"TheAgedGnome.7520" said: > > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said: > -snip- > > Support FB is jaw droopingly powerful in WvW squads. Nobody with any knowledge of the matter would argue that. But did FB need these CD nerfs for PvE? I don't know. As far as I know, FB isn't the go-to support spec for raids or fractals (that would be Druid), so I can't see how they would be outperforming other professions in the same role. > > > > Add to that, ANET has already given different cooldowns to abilities in game modes: Revenant is a perfect example, as it has longer cooldowns on some abilities in WvW/sPvP than in PvE. > > > > If there is a reason for it, I don't know what it is. Looks more like collateral damage. > > I'm baffled by this too. The only thing that comes to mind is that maybe they thought: > * mesmer boon nerfs would result in an increased demand for FBs in PVE > * then groups would substitute FB as boon supplier instead of mesmer > * but this violates the goal of not having one go-to boon class > * since they couldn't nerf the strength of FB's F2 and F3 without terrible consequences, they had to reduce the boon availability via cooldowns. > > People are still acting like this is somehow detrimental in PvE when it’s not. Tomes aren’t required in PvE, and never have been outside of using full Condition DPS Firebrand. There is no other reason than they nerfed it to just pad the patch notes to look like they changed more than they did. Tomes do not contribute much at all to the boons a Support Firebrand puts out. You never use any Tomes as Support Firebrand unless needed, which is rare. You will go whole fights not needing to use any Tome, but maybe using F3 skill 4, or going into F2 for 5, 4, 1, 1, 1. This “nerf” really did nothing for PvE, and is just a big “?...”. Currently Firebrand is looking better due to the Quickness buff. Support Firebrand gained more CC with Axe buff, and does Fury better now with Axe Symbol. Support Firebrand is actually better in PvE now. It hasn’t been nerfed, it has been buffed. Firebrand and Renegade Support duos are looking better. Once Mesmer gets Danger Time nerfed, then there will be more serious new comp talks. Also the patch made Condition Quickness DPS Firebrand a lot better. We are probably going to see the build played more now. It’s doing 28k+ DPS now, and providing permanent Quickness. Full Condition DPS Firebrand is 34k now as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said: > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > @"TwiceDead.1963" said: > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Ragnarox.9601" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Those two tomes were OP. Don’t overreact. Guardian got good buffs overall. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > LoL OP? While mesmers/mirages still oneshotting ppl. Yea good nerf, as I said, time for wow, my class is getting buffed there. While here every patch is constant nerfing and buffing something that will never be used, next balance patch will be buffing signets and spirit weapons again cause anet does have no clue nor anybody plays guardian in their balance kitten team. enjoy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hammer was played in PvP, and we got PvE buffs. Guardian has always been in a good spot game wise, don’t cry over some CD increases. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We got PVE nerfs, or are you just blind? Mores the fact we got PVE nerfs because of PVP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tomes don’t solely make a Guardian. The only nerf we got is some extra Tome CD added. I’m not blind, and can read fine. If you think Tomes are all that make Firebrand good, then I guess you need to sit down, and read the wiki. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did I say they made the Guardian? So yeah, you ARE blind. I suggest you learn how to build a character and the difference between PVE and PVP and how they should never interact > > > > > > > > > > Judging your overreaction over two nerfed tomes... **Yeah**, it's safe to assume they were carrying your world. I guess it's time to switch to new crutches. > > > > > > > > I don't play PVP, only PVE. PVE and PVP should never ever affect one another, nice assumptions kid. > > > > > > If you just play PvE, then why does this change matter to you at all? You never use Tomes on CD, and only use them when needing to block or burst heal. If you are using your Tomes on CD, then you aren’t playing well, and are actually destroying your healing, and support output. > > > > > > > > > > Do I need to bold it or something? PVE and PVP should never affect one another. These nerfs were clearly aimed at PVP yet Anet for god knows what reason, didn't split all of them > > It is an odd change, at least to me. > > Support FB is jaw droopingly powerful in WvW squads. Nobody with any knowledge of the matter would argue that. But did FB need these CD nerfs for PvE? I don't know. As far as I know, FB isn't the go-to support spec for raids or fractals (that would be Druid), so I can't see how they would be outperforming other professions in the same role. > > Add to that, ANET has already given different cooldowns to abilities in game modes: Revenant is a perfect example, as it has longer cooldowns on some abilities in WvW/sPvP than in PvE. > > If there is a reason for it, I don't know what it is. Looks more like collateral damage. > While a nerf to the tomes is surely justified this is short sighted for many reasons: No logical reason for the increased CD in PvE. And they certainly could have split the nerf. None support FB builds were already struggling in sustainability. This pushes them out completely. This limits build diversity further as it enforces renewed focus as the only viable elite. That is much collateral damage, and for what? An Anet dev being to lazy to test stuff out?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam.4092 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 > @"otto.5684" said: > > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said: > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > @"TwiceDead.1963" said: > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ragnarox.9601" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Those two tomes were OP. Don’t overreact. Guardian got good buffs overall. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > LoL OP? While mesmers/mirages still oneshotting ppl. Yea good nerf, as I said, time for wow, my class is getting buffed there. While here every patch is constant nerfing and buffing something that will never be used, next balance patch will be buffing signets and spirit weapons again cause anet does have no clue nor anybody plays guardian in their balance kitten team. enjoy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hammer was played in PvP, and we got PvE buffs. Guardian has always been in a good spot game wise, don’t cry over some CD increases. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We got PVE nerfs, or are you just blind? Mores the fact we got PVE nerfs because of PVP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tomes don’t solely make a Guardian. The only nerf we got is some extra Tome CD added. I’m not blind, and can read fine. If you think Tomes are all that make Firebrand good, then I guess you need to sit down, and read the wiki. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did I say they made the Guardian? So yeah, you ARE blind. I suggest you learn how to build a character and the difference between PVE and PVP and how they should never interact > > > > > > > > > > > > Judging your overreaction over two nerfed tomes... **Yeah**, it's safe to assume they were carrying your world. I guess it's time to switch to new crutches. > > > > > > > > > > I don't play PVP, only PVE. PVE and PVP should never ever affect one another, nice assumptions kid. > > > > > > > > If you just play PvE, then why does this change matter to you at all? You never use Tomes on CD, and only use them when needing to block or burst heal. If you are using your Tomes on CD, then you aren’t playing well, and are actually destroying your healing, and support output. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do I need to bold it or something? PVE and PVP should never affect one another. These nerfs were clearly aimed at PVP yet Anet for god knows what reason, didn't split all of them > > > > It is an odd change, at least to me. > > > > Support FB is jaw droopingly powerful in WvW squads. Nobody with any knowledge of the matter would argue that. But did FB need these CD nerfs for PvE? I don't know. As far as I know, FB isn't the go-to support spec for raids or fractals (that would be Druid), so I can't see how they would be outperforming other professions in the same role. > > > > Add to that, ANET has already given different cooldowns to abilities in game modes: Revenant is a perfect example, as it has longer cooldowns on some abilities in WvW/sPvP than in PvE. > > > > If there is a reason for it, I don't know what it is. Looks more like collateral damage. > > > > While a nerf to the tomes is surely justified this is short sighted for many reasons: > > No logical reason for the increased CD in PvE. And they certainly could have split the nerf. > > None support FB builds were already struggling in sustainability. This pushes them out completely. > > This limits build diversity further as it enforces renewed focus as the only viable elite. > > That is much collateral damage, and for what? An Anet dev being to lazy to test stuff out?! How does this limit diversity? Also how does it impact sustainability outside of PvP. In PvE, there's no need to really have to rely on Tomes unless you're playing bad. If you're in a group it shouldn't be an issue. If you are having trouble staying alive, then use your Meditation heal. It's the most OP heal in the game. PvE Firebrand Support is great right now. This nerf is only bad in WvW and PvP. I don't get why people are still acting like it's bad in PvE. I think the decision not to split balance is stupid, but hey, I'm used to this sort of balancing with Anet. We had a great patch overall, with a lot of buffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAgedGnome.7520 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 > @"Kam.4092" said: > > @"TheAgedGnome.7520" said: > > > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said: > > -snip- > > > Support FB is jaw droopingly powerful in WvW squads. Nobody with any knowledge of the matter would argue that. But did FB need these CD nerfs for PvE? I don't know. As far as I know, FB isn't the go-to support spec for raids or fractals (that would be Druid), so I can't see how they would be outperforming other professions in the same role. > > > > > > Add to that, ANET has already given different cooldowns to abilities in game modes: Revenant is a perfect example, as it has longer cooldowns on some abilities in WvW/sPvP than in PvE. > > > > > > If there is a reason for it, I don't know what it is. Looks more like collateral damage. > > > > I'm baffled by this too. The only thing that comes to mind is that maybe they thought: > > * mesmer boon nerfs would result in an increased demand for FBs in PVE > > * then groups would substitute FB as boon supplier instead of mesmer > > * but this violates the goal of not having one go-to boon class > > * since they couldn't nerf the strength of FB's F2 and F3 without terrible consequences, they had to reduce the boon availability via cooldowns. > > > > > > People are still acting like this is somehow detrimental in PvE when it’s not. Tomes aren’t required in PvE, and never have been outside of using full Condition DPS Firebrand. **There is no other reason than they nerfed it to just pad the patch notes to look like they changed more than they did**. Sure, to pad the patch notes...riiiight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 > @"Kam.4092" said: > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said: > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > @"TwiceDead.1963" said: > > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ragnarox.9601" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those two tomes were OP. Don’t overreact. Guardian got good buffs overall. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > LoL OP? While mesmers/mirages still oneshotting ppl. Yea good nerf, as I said, time for wow, my class is getting buffed there. While here every patch is constant nerfing and buffing something that will never be used, next balance patch will be buffing signets and spirit weapons again cause anet does have no clue nor anybody plays guardian in their balance kitten team. enjoy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hammer was played in PvP, and we got PvE buffs. Guardian has always been in a good spot game wise, don’t cry over some CD increases. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We got PVE nerfs, or are you just blind? Mores the fact we got PVE nerfs because of PVP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tomes don’t solely make a Guardian. The only nerf we got is some extra Tome CD added. I’m not blind, and can read fine. If you think Tomes are all that make Firebrand good, then I guess you need to sit down, and read the wiki. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did I say they made the Guardian? So yeah, you ARE blind. I suggest you learn how to build a character and the difference between PVE and PVP and how they should never interact > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Judging your overreaction over two nerfed tomes... **Yeah**, it's safe to assume they were carrying your world. I guess it's time to switch to new crutches. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't play PVP, only PVE. PVE and PVP should never ever affect one another, nice assumptions kid. > > > > > > > > > > If you just play PvE, then why does this change matter to you at all? You never use Tomes on CD, and only use them when needing to block or burst heal. If you are using your Tomes on CD, then you aren’t playing well, and are actually destroying your healing, and support output. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do I need to bold it or something? PVE and PVP should never affect one another. These nerfs were clearly aimed at PVP yet Anet for god knows what reason, didn't split all of them > > > > > > It is an odd change, at least to me. > > > > > > Support FB is jaw droopingly powerful in WvW squads. Nobody with any knowledge of the matter would argue that. But did FB need these CD nerfs for PvE? I don't know. As far as I know, FB isn't the go-to support spec for raids or fractals (that would be Druid), so I can't see how they would be outperforming other professions in the same role. > > > > > > Add to that, ANET has already given different cooldowns to abilities in game modes: Revenant is a perfect example, as it has longer cooldowns on some abilities in WvW/sPvP than in PvE. > > > > > > If there is a reason for it, I don't know what it is. Looks more like collateral damage. > > > > > > > While a nerf to the tomes is surely justified this is short sighted for many reasons: > > > > No logical reason for the increased CD in PvE. And they certainly could have split the nerf. > > > > None support FB builds were already struggling in sustainability. This pushes them out completely. > > > > This limits build diversity further as it enforces renewed focus as the only viable elite. > > > > That is much collateral damage, and for what? An Anet dev being to lazy to test stuff out?! > > How does this limit diversity? Also how does it impact sustainability outside of PvP. In PvE, there's no need to really have to rely on Tomes unless you're playing bad. If you're in a group it shouldn't be an issue. If you are having trouble staying alive, then use your Meditation heal. It's the most OP heal in the game. PvE Firebrand Support is great right now. This nerf is only bad in WvW and PvP. I don't get why people are still acting like it's bad in PvE. I think the decision not to split balance is stupid, but hey, I'm used to this sort of balancing with Anet. > > We had a great patch overall, with a lot of buffs. We lost 2 builds in PvP (core hammer and shattered aegis. 3 if you considered FB dps viable before) and gained close to nothing in either PvP or PvE. This is the worst patch for guardian in months. The only gain is FB in solo PvE, so enjoy solo PvE with slightly more quickness. And support FB could easily maintain 100% quickness before. The real buff to support FB was chronophantasm nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam.4092 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 > @"otto.5684" said: > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said: > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > @"TwiceDead.1963" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ragnarox.9601" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those two tomes were OP. Don’t overreact. Guardian got good buffs overall. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > LoL OP? While mesmers/mirages still oneshotting ppl. Yea good nerf, as I said, time for wow, my class is getting buffed there. While here every patch is constant nerfing and buffing something that will never be used, next balance patch will be buffing signets and spirit weapons again cause anet does have no clue nor anybody plays guardian in their balance kitten team. enjoy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hammer was played in PvP, and we got PvE buffs. Guardian has always been in a good spot game wise, don’t cry over some CD increases. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We got PVE nerfs, or are you just blind? Mores the fact we got PVE nerfs because of PVP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tomes don’t solely make a Guardian. The only nerf we got is some extra Tome CD added. I’m not blind, and can read fine. If you think Tomes are all that make Firebrand good, then I guess you need to sit down, and read the wiki. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did I say they made the Guardian? So yeah, you ARE blind. I suggest you learn how to build a character and the difference between PVE and PVP and how they should never interact > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Judging your overreaction over two nerfed tomes... **Yeah**, it's safe to assume they were carrying your world. I guess it's time to switch to new crutches. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't play PVP, only PVE. PVE and PVP should never ever affect one another, nice assumptions kid. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you just play PvE, then why does this change matter to you at all? You never use Tomes on CD, and only use them when needing to block or burst heal. If you are using your Tomes on CD, then you aren’t playing well, and are actually destroying your healing, and support output. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do I need to bold it or something? PVE and PVP should never affect one another. These nerfs were clearly aimed at PVP yet Anet for god knows what reason, didn't split all of them > > > > > > > > It is an odd change, at least to me. > > > > > > > > Support FB is jaw droopingly powerful in WvW squads. Nobody with any knowledge of the matter would argue that. But did FB need these CD nerfs for PvE? I don't know. As far as I know, FB isn't the go-to support spec for raids or fractals (that would be Druid), so I can't see how they would be outperforming other professions in the same role. > > > > > > > > Add to that, ANET has already given different cooldowns to abilities in game modes: Revenant is a perfect example, as it has longer cooldowns on some abilities in WvW/sPvP than in PvE. > > > > > > > > If there is a reason for it, I don't know what it is. Looks more like collateral damage. > > > > > > > > > > While a nerf to the tomes is surely justified this is short sighted for many reasons: > > > > > > No logical reason for the increased CD in PvE. And they certainly could have split the nerf. > > > > > > None support FB builds were already struggling in sustainability. This pushes them out completely. > > > > > > This limits build diversity further as it enforces renewed focus as the only viable elite. > > > > > > That is much collateral damage, and for what? An Anet dev being to lazy to test stuff out?! > > > > How does this limit diversity? Also how does it impact sustainability outside of PvP. In PvE, there's no need to really have to rely on Tomes unless you're playing bad. If you're in a group it shouldn't be an issue. If you are having trouble staying alive, then use your Meditation heal. It's the most OP heal in the game. PvE Firebrand Support is great right now. This nerf is only bad in WvW and PvP. I don't get why people are still acting like it's bad in PvE. I think the decision not to split balance is stupid, but hey, I'm used to this sort of balancing with Anet. > > > > We had a great patch overall, with a lot of buffs. > > We lost 2 builds in PvP (core hammer and shattered aegis. 3 if you considered FB dps viable before) and gained close to nothing in either PvP or PvE. This is the worst patch for guardian in months. The only gain is FB in solo PvE, so enjoy solo PvE with slightly more quickness. > > And support FB could easily maintain 100% quickness before. The real buff to support FB was chronophantasm nerf. Core Hammer got buffs, and is still great in PvP. Firebrand DPS was buffed, and Firebrand Support in PvE. How is this a bad patch? Are you trolling when you say this patch just buffs Firebrand in solo content? The Quickness buff on Mantra makes the Support DPS version of Firebrand a lot better. It’s basically full DPS, but can keep permanent Quickness up without changing much gear. This build got a lot better. Stop with the hyperbole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 > @"Kam.4092" said: > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > > > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said: > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > > @"TwiceDead.1963" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Its Nerfing Time.1495" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ragnarox.9601" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kam.4092" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those two tomes were OP. Don’t overreact. Guardian got good buffs overall. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > LoL OP? While mesmers/mirages still oneshotting ppl. Yea good nerf, as I said, time for wow, my class is getting buffed there. While here every patch is constant nerfing and buffing something that will never be used, next balance patch will be buffing signets and spirit weapons again cause anet does have no clue nor anybody plays guardian in their balance kitten team. enjoy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hammer was played in PvP, and we got PvE buffs. Guardian has always been in a good spot game wise, don’t cry over some CD increases. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We got PVE nerfs, or are you just blind? Mores the fact we got PVE nerfs because of PVP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tomes don’t solely make a Guardian. The only nerf we got is some extra Tome CD added. I’m not blind, and can read fine. If you think Tomes are all that make Firebrand good, then I guess you need to sit down, and read the wiki. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did I say they made the Guardian? So yeah, you ARE blind. I suggest you learn how to build a character and the difference between PVE and PVP and how they should never interact > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Judging your overreaction over two nerfed tomes... **Yeah**, it's safe to assume they were carrying your world. I guess it's time to switch to new crutches. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't play PVP, only PVE. PVE and PVP should never ever affect one another, nice assumptions kid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you just play PvE, then why does this change matter to you at all? You never use Tomes on CD, and only use them when needing to block or burst heal. If you are using your Tomes on CD, then you aren’t playing well, and are actually destroying your healing, and support output. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do I need to bold it or something? PVE and PVP should never affect one another. These nerfs were clearly aimed at PVP yet Anet for god knows what reason, didn't split all of them > > > > > > > > > > It is an odd change, at least to me. > > > > > > > > > > Support FB is jaw droopingly powerful in WvW squads. Nobody with any knowledge of the matter would argue that. But did FB need these CD nerfs for PvE? I don't know. As far as I know, FB isn't the go-to support spec for raids or fractals (that would be Druid), so I can't see how they would be outperforming other professions in the same role. > > > > > > > > > > Add to that, ANET has already given different cooldowns to abilities in game modes: Revenant is a perfect example, as it has longer cooldowns on some abilities in WvW/sPvP than in PvE. > > > > > > > > > > If there is a reason for it, I don't know what it is. Looks more like collateral damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > While a nerf to the tomes is surely justified this is short sighted for many reasons: > > > > > > > > No logical reason for the increased CD in PvE. And they certainly could have split the nerf. > > > > > > > > None support FB builds were already struggling in sustainability. This pushes them out completely. > > > > > > > > This limits build diversity further as it enforces renewed focus as the only viable elite. > > > > > > > > That is much collateral damage, and for what? An Anet dev being to lazy to test stuff out?! > > > > > > How does this limit diversity? Also how does it impact sustainability outside of PvP. In PvE, there's no need to really have to rely on Tomes unless you're playing bad. If you're in a group it shouldn't be an issue. If you are having trouble staying alive, then use your Meditation heal. It's the most OP heal in the game. PvE Firebrand Support is great right now. This nerf is only bad in WvW and PvP. I don't get why people are still acting like it's bad in PvE. I think the decision not to split balance is stupid, but hey, I'm used to this sort of balancing with Anet. > > > > > > We had a great patch overall, with a lot of buffs. > > > > We lost 2 builds in PvP (core hammer and shattered aegis. 3 if you considered FB dps viable before) and gained close to nothing in either PvP or PvE. This is the worst patch for guardian in months. The only gain is FB in solo PvE, so enjoy solo PvE with slightly more quickness. > > > > And support FB could easily maintain 100% quickness before. The real buff to support FB was chronophantasm nerf. > > Core Hammer got buffs, and is still great in PvP. Firebrand DPS was buffed, and Firebrand Support in PvE. How is this a bad patch? Are you trolling when you say this patch just buffs Firebrand in solo content? > > The Quickness buff on Mantra makes the Support DPS version of Firebrand a lot better. It’s basically full DPS, but can keep permanent Quickness up without changing much gear. This build got a lot better. > > Stop with the hyperbole. > > Hammer main damage skill has its CD increased by 50% in exchange for 17% damage increase. Glacial hammer trait damage was nerfed significantly. You do not even need basic math to fucking understand this is a major nerf. As for FB, yes this changes make it better in PvE, but do not really change much. The support build is pretty much the same. It is not quickness uptime, but might that was somewhat of an issue. The increase in damage on the dps build does not even register (1 extra sec on 1 AA on axe). Again, shattered aegis build in PvP is dead. Core hammer significantly nerfed. FB dps in PvP already had sustainability problems and the blanket tomes nerf, that was targeting support build, killed the dps build. You know this shit is in the patch notes. If you cannot read and/or understand the patch notes that does not change the facts. If you only play PvE and primarily play FB you can view the patch as positive. In PvP diversity has been gutted. Nothing is currently functional outside of core GS and support FB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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