Condi mesmer still no nerf

[Arioch.4810]

Mesmer, what is best in life?

-To ambush your enemies

See them tormented before you

And to hear their lamentations on the forums

 

:p

[tinyreborn.1938]

> @"Arioch.4810" said:

> Mesmer, what is best in life?

> -To ambush your enemies

> See them tormented before you

> And to hear their lamentations on the forums

>

> :p

 

Sad truth :disappointed:

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"babazhook.6805" said:

> While I do not PvP , reading the threads suggests the only Condition builds one really sees in PVP are mesmer and Necro variants. Generally this leads to people traiting less Cleanses and or not paying as much attention to their UI so as to determine what they can and can not do.

 

> Torment and Confusion are conditions that require a person to pay attention to something other then Cooldowns and when one should heal.

 

> There also a dichotomy between the "it faceroll easy to play a condition build mesmer" while calling for changes to make it easier to face one because a person does not want to pay attention to his UI. The impression I get is people will not be happy until everyone plays power. I just can not reconcile the demand for more nerfs to the remaining condition builds when the much greater percentage of builds out there across all specs are power.

 

While I understand how you arrived at that conclusion, I would venture it is more complex than "Condis hurt."

 

Digressing, the nature of Mirage's condition application compounds its effectiveness; not because people just ignore their condi bar but because the conditons applied themselves have no counterplay in tandem apart from "cleanse it.". If you get a condi burst on you from a thief or ranger, for instance, counterplay is evident if you look at your bar. Since their major lynchpin in their condi builds is poison, you need to cleanse poison before you heal, and you can still use skills to keep pressure on the thief or ranger. Mirage though, you get torment __and__ confusion. Heavy stacks of both, with other jamming conditions to make cleanses harder. And to address those you either have a cleanse or...

 

...don't move, and do not use skills, while the mesmer hits you?

 

If you're going to build a condition spec around punishing people for moving and using skills, it should not also be mandatory for them to do so in order to survive your rotation while those conditions melt off or cleanse comes back up. But that's another arguing point entirely.

 

None of that is the issue.

 

The issue is that, once you target the mesmer, they have absolutely no need to react to your initial pressure outside of "press dodge". They do not need to use utility skills or interrupt their channels because of damage pressure, because mirage cloak allows them to continue performing whatever skills they were performing if their cloak is used to evade a move that would interrupt them.

 

On top of that, if they DO manage to get stunned they also do not need to use utilities or consider any kind of defensive maneuver, because dodging can be used while stunned, even if they do not take the Elusive Mind Grandmaster trait. So they can, at any point, as long as they have endurance, avoid any burst damage or pressure that would disrupt their rotation __At baseline__. Then they can take additional defensive measures via utilities if they so choose, and several of their class workings grant vigor.

 

So, again, just to be clear.

 

Clones are not the issue.

Ambushes are not the issue.

Huge mega dps is not he issue

Condis are not the issue.

 

The problem is, as far as I'm concerned, that mesmers have no reason to think about anything except their burst rotation. If it goes wrong, dodge. if they get interrupted, dodge. If they start getting cleaved, dodge. The channels will continue.

 

This problem is less prevalent for the power oriented mesmers, as they are usually glass because power comes at a cost to vitality in most cases, and even cleaving strikes will make them panic. For Carrion Mirages, though.... nah. they don't care.

 

If they had to do something defensive against stuns more substantial than pressing dodge again, and had to weigh that consideration when building their kit, it might make things a bit better.

 

But rambling. Obviously there's people going ToO MaNy CloNEs aNd CoNdIs but I don't think that's the root of the issue.

 

[gebrechen.5643]

> @"Solori.6025" said:

 

> I'm not so sure about application. The number of corrupts as well as skills that apply conditions is greater on necro iirc. And cleanses is also something I would contest as necro can either convert,transfer, or cleanse. Mirage or at least the current meta build does not have that luxury and has to avoid conditions other wise it can be loaded and killed

 

You ran out of corrupt faster than a condi mirage can put them on you. Tranfering conditions is in most cases a thing that can be dodged. That makes the mesmer far more viable in the condition spec.

 

> They are not tanky unless built to tank. Otherwise it's a matter of utilizing clones properly. And any good players know how to deny that mechanic.

> They are not that mobile unless they use sword and lol that's a power weapon.

> And power mesmer is essentially dead thanks to people complaining.

 

I compare Mesmer and Necro here. Necro has to be build for being tanky too, but with no or lesser access to invulnerabilty, stealth or mobility.

For being dead I see a lot more power mirages than power necros or reapers in the matchups.

 

 

> If the only thing you can do on necro is sit and get your conditions cleansed might I suggest playing a power spec on something else. The necros I have seen are able to point control, add sustain in team fights, provide cover for allies, deal with boon spam. Corrupt boons on a focus target.

 

That was always the case. You need to a babysitter on the necro, which you don't on a mesmer. But that wasn't the point. The point is that condi mirage is by far superior to Necro in their "class identity" and that's condition pressure.

 

> Like it is THE best teamfighter

Make a thread if you have a problem with that. I don't see anyone complaining about necro being good when having a team that supports them - while Mirage and Mesmer was overtuned in most of the pvp seasons since the beginning and it still it.

 

 

[Solori.6025]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > While I do not PvP , reading the threads suggests the only Condition builds one really sees in PVP are mesmer and Necro variants. Generally this leads to people traiting less Cleanses and or not paying as much attention to their UI so as to determine what they can and can not do.

>

> > Torment and Confusion are conditions that require a person to pay attention to something other then Cooldowns and when one should heal.

>

> > There also a dichotomy between the "it faceroll easy to play a condition build mesmer" while calling for changes to make it easier to face one because a person does not want to pay attention to his UI. The impression I get is people will not be happy until everyone plays power. I just can not reconcile the demand for more nerfs to the remaining condition builds when the much greater percentage of builds out there across all specs are power.

>

> While I understand how you arrived at that conclusion, I would venture it is more complex than "Condis hurt."

>

> Digressing, the nature of Mirage's condition application compounds its effectiveness; not because people just ignore their condi bar but because the conditons applied themselves have no counterplay in tandem apart from "cleanse it.". If you get a condi burst on you from a thief or ranger, for instance, counterplay is evident if you look at your bar. Since their major lynchpin in their condi builds is poison, you need to cleanse poison before you heal, and you can still use skills to keep pressure on the thief or ranger. Mirage though, you get torment __and__ confusion. Heavy stacks of both, with other jamming conditions to make cleanses harder. And to address those you either have a cleanse or...

>

> ...don't move, and do not use skills, while the mesmer hits you?

>

> If you're going to build a condition spec around punishing people for moving and using skills, it should not also be mandatory for them to do so in order to survive your rotation while those conditions melt off or cleanse comes back up. But that's another arguing point entirely.

>

> None of that is the issue.

>

> The issue is that, once you target the mesmer, they have absolutely no need to react to your initial pressure outside of "press dodge". They do not need to use utility skills or interrupt their channels because of damage pressure, because mirage cloak allows them to continue performing whatever skills they were performing if their cloak is used to evade a move that would interrupt them.

>

> On top of that, if they DO manage to get stunned they also do not need to use utilities or consider any kind of defensive maneuver, because dodging can be used while stunned, even if they do not take the Elusive Mind Grandmaster trait. So they can, at any point, as long as they have endurance, avoid any burst damage or pressure that would disrupt their rotation __At baseline__. Then they can take additional defensive measures via utilities if they so choose, and several of their class workings grant vigor.

>

> So, again, just to be clear.

>

> Clones are not the issue.

> Ambushes are not the issue.

> Huge mega dps is not he issue

> Condis are not the issue.

>

> The problem is, as far as I'm concerned, that mesmers have no reason to think about anything except their burst rotation. If it goes wrong, dodge. if they get interrupted, dodge. If they start getting cleaved, dodge. The channels will continue.

>

> This problem is less prevalent for the power oriented mesmers, as they are usually glass because power comes at a cost to vitality in most cases, and even cleaving strikes will make them panic. For Carrion Mirages, though.... nah. they don't care.

>

> If they had to do something defensive against stuns more substantial than pressing dodge again, and had to weigh that consideration when building their kit, it might make things a bit better.

>

> But rambling. Obviously there's people going ToO MaNy CloNEs aNd CoNdIs but I don't think that's the root of the issue.

>

 

Question:

 

What do you think the burst combo comprises of?

Like, From what I have seen you need to ambush to apply high stacks of torment.

The combo I usually am able to pull off leads to 15-18 stacks of confusion and about 20 or so stacks of torment. Assuming everything lands.

What combo are you referring to that is able to do that AND ALSO save dodges?

[Solori.6025]

> @"gebrechen.5643" said:

> > @"Solori.6025" said:

>

> > I'm not so sure about application. The number of corrupts as well as skills that apply conditions is greater on necro iirc. And cleanses is also something I would contest as necro can either convert,transfer, or cleanse. Mirage or at least the current meta build does not have that luxury and has to avoid conditions other wise it can be loaded and killed

>

> You ran out of corrupt faster than a condi mirage can put them on you. Tranfering conditions is in most cases a thing that can be dodged. That makes the mesmer far more viable in the condition spec.

 

How do you run out of corrupts?

Are we looking at the same build?

Or do you mean cleanses?

>

> > They are not tanky unless built to tank. Otherwise it's a matter of utilizing clones properly. And any good players know how to deny that mechanic.

> > They are not that mobile unless they use sword and lol that's a power weapon.

> > And power mesmer is essentially dead thanks to people complaining.

>

> I compare Mesmer and Necro here. Necro has to be build for being tanky too, but with no or lesser access to invulnerabilty, stealth or mobility.

> For being dead I see a lot more power mirages than power necros or reapers in the matchups.

>

 

Me and you must be seeing completely different match ups, what tier are you in?

You are correct while you don't have access to stealth or invulnerability you do have access to increased health pool, barrier ( or in reapers case another health bar), and abundance of boon corruption, and large area denial. Everything that you need in a TEAM based game.

It's why scourge specifically is so common.

>

> > If the only thing you can do on necro is sit and get your conditions cleansed might I suggest playing a power spec on something else. The necros I have seen are able to point control, add sustain in team fights, provide cover for allies, deal with boon spam. Corrupt boons on a focus target.

>

> That was always the case. You need to a babysitter on the necro, which you don't on a mesmer. But that wasn't the point. The point is that condi mirage is by far superior to Necro in their "class identity" and that's condition pressure.

>

Again- I disagree.

In terms of mirage v scourge - scourge has superior sustained condition application. But it would help if I knew what build you are talking about. As I am referring to this one

**https://www.godsofpvp.net/builds/necromancer/**

 

If your issue is that you can't 1v1 on a necro as well as mirage can then..again..you need to get on a new class.

Necro has never had a straight up high profile side noder or 1v1 build to my knowledge. ( not like mesmer, rev, thief, ranger,engi, or war)

But corruption and area denial. I don't think ANY class can take that identity from scourge. Hasn't been touched since day 1.

> > Like it is THE best teamfighter

> Make a thread if you have a problem with that. I don't see anyone complaining about necro being good when having a team that supports them - while Mirage and Mesmer was overtuned in most of the pvp seasons since the beginning and it still it.

>

Mirage *was* overtuned.

 

Specific condition builds are **all** overtuned. That is a discussion for later however

 

[Zero.3871]

plz guys, stop opening those threads! everything that anet reads in this thread is:

 

**Player wrote**: Mirage is op, plz fix anet!

 

**Anet reads**: necro OP, plz fix anet !

**anet Response**: no Problem, nerf Incoming B)

 

[Solori.6025]

> @"Zero.3871" said:

> plz guys, stop opening those threads! everything that anet reads in this thread is:

>

> **Player wrote**: Mirage is op, plz fix anet!

>

> **Anet reads**: necro OP, plz fix anet !

> **anet Response**: no Problem, nerf Incoming B)

>

 

You forgot the part where the patch comes and they nerf ele..

[Axl.8924]

How about instead of nerfing mesmers condi they first nerf condi cleanses instead of having to wreck another condi spec?

 

Seriously, no more breaking specs.

 

Anet should rather listen to people who know how the spec performs at max level, so before anymore nerfs happen, I want some information on the performance on all Mesmer specs such as chronomancer core and mirage.

 

 

 

[coro.3176]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> How about instead of nerfing mesmers condi they first nerf condi cleanses instead of having to wreck another condi spec?

>

> Seriously, no more breaking specs.

>

> Anet should rather listen to people who know how the spec performs at max level, so before anymore nerfs happen, I want some information on the performance on all Mesmer specs such as chronomancer core and mirage.

>

>

>

 

This should be obvious to them. How many people are playing condi on other classes...

 

* engi? approximately zero

* revenant? approximately zero

* ranger? approximately zero

* warrior? approximately zero

* thief? approximately zero

* guardian? approximately zero

* necro? eh, some

* mesmer? almost all

 

Maybe .. just MAYBE it's because condi mirage and to a lesser extent scourge are the only viable condi builds right now.

 

Why is this? They're the only ones that can overwhelm the amount of cleanse in the game.

 

Solution? Nerf the amount of cleanse in the game until the other builds are playable, then nerf the only 2 overperforming builds down to match the rest.

[Axl.8924]

> @"coro.3176" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > How about instead of nerfing mesmers condi they first nerf condi cleanses instead of having to wreck another condi spec?

> >

> > Seriously, no more breaking specs.

> >

> > Anet should rather listen to people who know how the spec performs at max level, so before anymore nerfs happen, I want some information on the performance on all Mesmer specs such as chronomancer core and mirage.

> >

> >

> >

>

> This should be obvious to them. How many people are playing condi on other classes...

>

> * engi? approximately zero

> * revenant? approximately zero

> * ranger? approximately zero

> * warrior? approximately zero

> * thief? approximately zero

> * guardian? approximately zero

> * necro? eh, some

> * mesmer? almost all

>

> Maybe .. just MAYBE it's because condi mirage and to a lesser extent scourge are the only viable condi builds right now.

>

> Why is this? They're the only ones that can overwhelm the amount of cleanse in the game.

>

> Solution? Nerf the amount of cleanse in the game until the other builds are playable, then nerf the only 2 overperforming builds down to match the rest.

 

Condi scourge isn't even as strong anymore, its mostly the boon corrupt that helps kill them but the amount of condi corrupt isn't even that strong.

 

But generally speaking yes you are correct.

 

I think the strongest is still mesmers but worse yet, people who cry want things nerfed so they can win regardless of fun factor for other side.

 

Nerf warriors endure pain? I don't know.Warriors might need it to survive, so I am unsure. I heard berserker is dead.

 

[UfoCoffee.2084]

It seems every patch recently they nerf condi mes in the most ridiculous way that doesn't affect their damage. 2 ports instead of 3? Who cares?

 

If you dodge their upfront burst from stealth they can still apply stupid amounts of conditions afterwards.

 

So you dodge the torch phantom and the shatter. They can create clones immediately after which can put 25 stack of torment on you. You clear this and try to fight back but they can move whilst dodging and apply more condi to you. It's just stupid design.

 

So good game design is if this class hits you or ports onto you with their blink from stealth and you have stacks of confusion and torment on you you're not meant to cast or move or you'll die? So I'll just unplug my keyboard when they attack. Great counter play......

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> The combo I usually am able to pull off leads to 15-18 stacks of confusion and about 20 or so stacks of torment. Assuming everything lands.

> What combo are you referring to that is able to do that AND ALSO save dodges?

 

 

I can go get numbers about how many dodges apart from the original two you can reclaim by running travelers, and energy sigils with False Oasis, but that is not the point I am trying to make. No sane mirage is going to burn all of their endurance for a burst, and even if they did that endurance drought would not last very long. My issue is specifically with combat flow for mirages not giving a rat's behind about any kind of CC.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > The combo I usually am able to pull off leads to 15-18 stacks of confusion and about 20 or so stacks of torment. Assuming everything lands.

> > What combo are you referring to that is able to do that AND ALSO save dodges?

>

> But... I'm not referring to the combo being too heavy in damage. My issue is with the nature of mirage cloak itself.

> I can go get numbers about how many dodges apart from the original two you can reclaim by running travelers and energy sigils, but that is not the point I am trying to make. My issue, again, is with combat flow for mirages not giving a rat's behind about any kind of CC paired with the nature of their damage.

 

Cool, give Mirage a super fun new mechanic to replace it aside from proposing your only able to use Ambushes and oGCD skills while Mirage Cloaked solution.

[Solori.6025]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > The combo I usually am able to pull off leads to 15-18 stacks of confusion and about 20 or so stacks of torment. Assuming everything lands.

> > What combo are you referring to that is able to do that AND ALSO save dodges?

>

>

> I can go get numbers about how many dodges apart from the original two you can reclaim by running travelers, and energy sigils with False Oasis, but that is not the point I am trying to make. No sane mirage is going to burn all of their endurance for a burst, and even if they did that endurance drought would not last very long. My issue is specifically with combat flow for mirages not giving a rat's behind about any kind of CC.

 

With all the nerfs to vigor up time I would love to see the new thread with all of that considered. I would also still really

really want to know the combo you are referring to

How it is done, what time frame it is being done.

How often is the burst being applied that a mirage can even after that shrug off CC

Give me a realistic scenario so we can have a discussion about it. Because being a broken record is kinda eh, especially as has been mentioned, mirage is not well represented in the top. For good reason.

Give me the combo-

What are the stacks you are seeing?

What are you considering burst?

This is all relevant to the timing of dodges and counting. I am curious

[Lucentfir.7430]

-Elusive Mind- Exhaustion nerf revert to 2.5s from 6s.

-Critical Infusion- Revert the nerf back to 5s of vigor from 3s.

-Dune Cloak- In addition to its current effects make, make clones shattered cast this before they die.

-Nomad's Endurance- Make it grant 150 Power as well.

-Mirage Advance- Reduce Cast time to 0.25s from 0.75s

-MC should not be usable while CC'd without EM.

-Mirage Cloak- 0.75s dodge frame

-Illusionary Ambush- increase the CD to 40s.

-Sharper images- Reduce the chance to bleed to 50%. chance on critical hit for Illusions and yourself.

-Jaunt- revert back to 3 charges, nerf the recharge to 45s.

-Axe of Symmetry- remove the evade and increase the CD to 20s /or remove the target break.

-Infinite Horizon- Add a Cooldown of 5s to the clone version but all clones still generate MC.

 

Hopefully those are reasonable changes?

[everyman.4375]

There's already another post saying the exact same thing and 2000 saying relatively the same thing so why do you feel the need to create another post ?

I think you should just ask a mesmer player to help you understand the class and do some duels, after less than an hour of playing you'll understand that mesmer is not just applying conditions over and over.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

> @"Lucentfir.7430" said:

> -Elusive Mind- Exhaustion nerf revert to 2.5s from 6s.

> -Critical Infusion- Revert the nerf back to 5s of vigor from 3s.

> -Dune Cloak- In addition to its current effects make, make clones shattered cast this before they die.

> -Nomad's Endurance- Make it grant 150 Power as well.

> -Mirage Advance- Reduce Cast time to 0.25s from 0.75s

> -MC should not be usable while CC'd without EM.

> -Mirage Cloak- 0.75s dodge frame

> -Illusionary Ambush- increase the CD to 40s.

> -Sharper images- Reduce the chance to bleed to 50%. chance on critical hit for Illusions and yourself.

> -Jaunt- revert back to 3 charges, nerf the recharge to 45s.

> -Axe of Symmetry- remove the evade and increase the CD to 20s /or remove the target break.

> -Infinite Horizon- Add a Cooldown of 5s to the clone version but all clones still generate MC.

>

> Hopefully those are reasonable changes?

 

Would prefer just a flat rework, but that'd be okay I guess.

Looks fine

Might make it actually usable, but could be a little too much condi pressure

I don't see why not.

/shrug Not really sure how to make that skill better

Meh, don't really see it as a problem if people just delayed their bursts, Mirages still only have 2 dodges.

No.

Super no.

Reduce the bleed duration instead, it's longer than Duelists Discipline which doesn't make sense as DD you choose and SI you get anyway

That recharge nerf is kind of super heavy handed.

Maybe remove the evade, but a 2.5x cooldown increase? No. Target Break isn't that hard to deal with.

No.

[Kilar.4791]

> @"everyman.4375" said:

> There's already another post saying the exact same thing and 2000 saying relatively the same thing so why do you feel the need to create another post ?

> I think you should just ask a mesmer player to help you understand the class and do some duels, after less than an hour of playing you'll understand that mesmer is not just applying conditions over and over.

 

He made this post to cry, not to learn.

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"Kilar.4791" said:

> > @"everyman.4375" said:

> > There's already another post saying the exact same thing and 2000 saying relatively the same thing so why do you feel the need to create another post ?

> > I think you should just ask a mesmer player to help you understand the class and do some duels, after less than an hour of playing you'll understand that mesmer is not just applying conditions over and over.

>

> He made this post to cry, not to learn.

 

It is not his job to learn. Once again; It is Anet job to finally take a stand that this ongoing epidemic has negatively impacted any remaining fun-factor in the game competitive scenery.

 

**Mesmer must hit rock bottom again. Except this time, in the right way**

 

"Once you hit rock bottom, that's where you perfectly stand; That's your chance of restarting, but restarting the right way"

[everyman.4375]

> @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > @"Kilar.4791" said:

> > > @"everyman.4375" said:

> > > There's already another post saying the exact same thing and 2000 saying relatively the same thing so why do you feel the need to create another post ?

> > > I think you should just ask a mesmer player to help you understand the class and do some duels, after less than an hour of playing you'll understand that mesmer is not just applying conditions over and over.

> >

> > He made this post to cry, not to learn.

>

> It is not his job to learn. Once again; It is Anet job to finally take a stand that this ongoing epidemic has negatively impacted any remaining fun-factor in the game competitive scenery.

>

> **Mesmer must hit rock bottom again. Except this time, in the right way**

>

> "Once you hit rock bottom, that's where you perfectly stand; That's your chance of restarting, but restarting the right way"

 

It's not his job to learn but if he doesn't he has no right to complain.

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"everyman.4375" said:

> > @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > > @"Kilar.4791" said:

> > > > @"everyman.4375" said:

> > > > There's already another post saying the exact same thing and 2000 saying relatively the same thing so why do you feel the need to create another post ?

> > > > I think you should just ask a mesmer player to help you understand the class and do some duels, after less than an hour of playing you'll understand that mesmer is not just applying conditions over and over.

> > >

> > > He made this post to cry, not to learn.

> >

> > It is not his job to learn. Once again; It is Anet job to finally take a stand that this ongoing epidemic has negatively impacted any remaining fun-factor in the game competitive scenery.

> >

> > **Mesmer must hit rock bottom again. Except this time, in the right way**

> >

> > "Once you hit rock bottom, that's where you perfectly stand; That's your chance of restarting, but restarting the right way"

>

> It's not his job to learn but if he doesn't he has no right to complain.

 

He including everyone else including myself in Guild Wars 2 6 years run, has the right to complain about Mesmer toxicity and its bad design

 

Here is a 5 years old video of a duel between an elementalist vs a condi mesmer. You be the judge

 

[tinyreborn.1938]

> @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> > @"Lucentfir.7430" said:

> > -Elusive Mind- Exhaustion nerf revert to 2.5s from 6s.

> > -Critical Infusion- Revert the nerf back to 5s of vigor from 3s.

> > -Dune Cloak- In addition to its current effects make, make clones shattered cast this before they die.

> > -Nomad's Endurance- Make it grant 150 Power as well.

> > -Mirage Advance- Reduce Cast time to 0.25s from 0.75s

> > -MC should not be usable while CC'd without EM.

> > -Mirage Cloak- 0.75s dodge frame

> > -Illusionary Ambush- increase the CD to 40s.

> > -Sharper images- Reduce the chance to bleed to 50%. chance on critical hit for Illusions and yourself.

> > -Jaunt- revert back to 3 charges, nerf the recharge to 45s.

> > -Axe of Symmetry- remove the evade and increase the CD to 20s /or remove the target break.

> > -Infinite Horizon- Add a Cooldown of 5s to the clone version but all clones still generate MC.

> >

> > Hopefully those are reasonable changes?

>

> Would prefer just a flat rework, but that'd be okay I guess.

> Looks fine

> Might make it actually usable, but could be a little too much condi pressure

> I don't see why not.

> /shrug Not really sure how to make that skill better

> Meh, don't really see it as a problem if people just delayed their bursts, Mirages still only have 2 dodges.

> No.

> Super no.

> Reduce the bleed duration instead, it's longer than Duelists Discipline which doesn't make sense as DD you choose and SI you get anyway

> That recharge nerf is kind of super heavy handed.

> Maybe remove the evade, but a 2.5x cooldown increase? No. Target Break isn't that hard to deal with.

> No.

 

This guys its why forum worth reading , lots of giggles. More fun than playing the game xD

[Solori.6025]

> @"Lucentfir.7430" said:

> -Elusive Mind- Exhaustion nerf revert to 2.5s from 6s.

> -Critical Infusion- Revert the nerf back to 5s of vigor from 3s.

> -Dune Cloak- In addition to its current effects make, make clones shattered cast this before they die.

> -Nomad's Endurance- Make it grant 150 Power as well.

> -Mirage Advance- Reduce Cast time to 0.25s from 0.75s

> -MC should not be usable while CC'd without EM.

> -Mirage Cloak- 0.75s dodge frame

> -Illusionary Ambush- increase the CD to 40s.

> -Sharper images- Reduce the chance to bleed to 50%. chance on critical hit for Illusions and yourself.

> -Jaunt- revert back to 3 charges, nerf the recharge to 45s.

> -Axe of Symmetry- remove the evade and increase the CD to 20s /or remove the target break.

> -Infinite Horizon- Add a Cooldown of 5s to the clone version but all clones still generate MC.

>

> Hopefully those are reasonable changes?

 

Some are and some are not

Elusive Mind - Remove stunbreak on dodge- Now cleanses 2 damaging conditions and grants increased duration of superspeed- Superspeed removes movement impairing conditions but gives 2.5s exhaustion

Critical infusion- good revert

Dunce..i mean...Dune Cloak- Lower the Cooldown on deception skills by 20%- Clones leave a trail of glass that cause bleeding and cripple when shattered.

3s bleed and cripple that stacks the longer you stay in the trail- 180 radius . Trails persist for 4s

Nomads Endurance- Fine as is currently ( if they want to add power- it needs to be in the power line aka domination)

Mirage cloak- "Your dodge ability is replaced by a long-range dash that grants Superspeed" See unhindered combatant- make the dash leave purple butterflies

Infinite Horizen- Clones copy the mesmer doing a lesser ambushes

((Lesser Ambush has

((Lowered Condition duration

((ICD on daze from clones

Illusionary Ambush- Increase CD to 25s

Sharper Images - ( now besides the fact this only works on illusions.) Leave as is- 3s ICD

Jaunt- Remove confusion- revert power damage nerfs- revert charges back to 3

Axe of Symemetry- Reduce confusion duration to 4.5s, reduce confusion applied from 3 to 2

Blinding Dissipation- 5s ICD

Sand through Glass- increase CD to 30s- Create a glass storm around the Mirage- absorbing projectiles and giving the mirage 1s of stability 5s duration

 

A lot of the changes you listed look like you just want the things that make mirage removed.

Axes of symmetry is a non issue especially, because the target break puts YOU and clones into melee range.

How many AoE's does it take to kill clones hand delivered to you?

Sharper Images doesn't work on the mesmer itself. It even reads as such in the description and any other interaction would be a bug.

Everyone hates Mirage Cloak, so give mesmers The dash dodge, let it function like a normal dodge ( cant dodge while stunned) I would take that compromise.

EM shouldn't exist. Mesmer mains said this in beta- Dodge stunbreak is a gimmick design and it can only ever be insanely good, or insanely terrible.

 

 

[Solori.6025]

> @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > @"everyman.4375" said:

> > > @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > > > @"Kilar.4791" said:

> > > > > @"everyman.4375" said:

> > > > > There's already another post saying the exact same thing and 2000 saying relatively the same thing so why do you feel the need to create another post ?

> > > > > I think you should just ask a mesmer player to help you understand the class and do some duels, after less than an hour of playing you'll understand that mesmer is not just applying conditions over and over.

> > > >

> > > > He made this post to cry, not to learn.

> > >

> > > It is not his job to learn. Once again; It is Anet job to finally take a stand that this ongoing epidemic has negatively impacted any remaining fun-factor in the game competitive scenery.

> > >

> > > **Mesmer must hit rock bottom again. Except this time, in the right way**

> > >

> > > "Once you hit rock bottom, that's where you perfectly stand; That's your chance of restarting, but restarting the right way"

> >

> > It's not his job to learn but if he doesn't he has no right to complain.

>

> He including everyone else including myself in Guild Wars 2 6 years run, has the right to complain about Mesmer toxicity and its bad design

>

> Here is a 5 years old video of a duel between an elementalist vs a condi mesmer. You be the judge

>

>

 

Why would you link a 5yr old video when they have a new video of an weaver v mirage which would be much more relevant.

What are you drinking?

 

> @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > @"Kilar.4791" said:

> > > @"everyman.4375" said:

> > > There's already another post saying the exact same thing and 2000 saying relatively the same thing so why do you feel the need to create another post ?

> > > I think you should just ask a mesmer player to help you understand the class and do some duels, after less than an hour of playing you'll understand that mesmer is not just applying conditions over and over.

> >

> > He made this post to cry, not to learn.

>

> It is not his job to learn.

 

Then he can't complain.

It's like crying you don't have money but you don't work.