zoopop.5630 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 > @"Vicariuz.1605" said: > > @"losingcontrol.1084" said: > > Boonbeast is way worse right now, and can counter condi mirage pretty easily in any 1vs1, and for now I don't think it has a direct counter, while mirage suffers quite a bit against good holos and boonbeasts and good thieves 100-0 a mirage no problem. Not to mention core guards are rising up and counter condi mirage too. > > all of the classes u just mentioned lose 1v1 to a condi mirage. > > there is this interesting thing where people who do not actually understand match ups regurgitate the narrative they are told without actually testing it. > > boonbeast, conversion holo, s/d thief and core guard all lose 1v1 to condi mirage. > > one of the MAJOR reasons why flandre's team won last month was because boyce (boonbeast) was completely checked by condi mirage forcing him to team-fight on a build that is not suited for the role. > > as far as short's video, that is not the strongest condi build for mirage, torch offhand is the reason why it isnt, there is a better option that puts out FAR more pressure. sword / shield conversion holo loses to condi mirage ? Last I remember It didn't lose to holo AT all, WAY to much condi cleanses/sustain for sword/shield conversion holo to lose that fight. Everything else you are right though, Boonbeast loses the match up depending on the skill level of said players on said classes. However I agree, Condi Mirage is pretty aids in this game at the moment with almost 0 skills needed to play the class and land an actual burst unlike power mirage. I just Don't Understand the lack of understanding on how to properly nerf the class without making it so.....weak. Anyway this isn't something new I saw this coming after reading the portal nerf, they pretty much gave mesmer a utility to use now for duels making them stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 > @"UfoCoffee.2084" said: > Mesmer is my second most played profession. I know exactly how they work. I played condi for a long time. I don't need to learn anything I admitted they were op when I was playing as it as I'm an honest person. > > I was referring to axe damage where they nerfed the power value on it? I mean kitten? > > All of you defending mesmer are clearly mesmer mains in denial desperately trying to avoid nerfs who like playing god mode. > > I felt guilty playing as mes going far and meeting a warrior and killing him by rolling my face over the keyboard. > > All well known good mesmers admit condi mes is simple to play and op as kitten. > > Pink shorts hates having to play condi but whenever he sees a tough opponent on the other team he switches over to it because it's op. The problem isn't that mesmer players won't admit it's OP, many say frequently the condition output is too much. The problem is ANet keeps nerfing everything BUT the condition output which makes non meta, hard to play builds even worse. Here's a great example of changes based on "the community" which have lead to nerfs, sure EM was justified but many weren't really and the builds affected were considered weak in the meta at the time. > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > Naah, more likely: > Community: Mesmer needs less dodges, less mobility, less sustain damage, less burst, less sustain, less clones, less hp. > Mesmer mains: Mesmer needs either less burst or less sustain damage and for mirage cloak not to activate while stunned. > > > @"Spartacus.3192" said: > > So when people say mesmer is ANET's favorite class, they're not kidding. > > I would say ANet's favorite ~~class~~ profession is non of the 9, it's the forums' baddies. > "Elusive Mind is op" (which all mesmers warned before PoF released) > ANet deleted EM from game > > "Look at how much evade uptime mirage has!" > ANet - Vigor nerfed to oblivion, rune of adventurer/sigil of energy nerfed > > "Portal needs to go, it's so op" > ANet - Portal deleted > > "Gosh BF needs to be tonedown!" > ANet - BF nerfed > > "Are you blind ANet? Power mesmer is so op, 100-0 in one sec!" > Power block, Mental Anguish and Confunding Suggestions nerfed. > > This are all true and you can look for the complains just before the nerf arrived on forums. > > And there are many more examples, feel free to ask for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicariuz.1605 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > @"Vicariuz.1605" said: > > > @"losingcontrol.1084" said: > > > Boonbeast is way worse right now, and can counter condi mirage pretty easily in any 1vs1, and for now I don't think it has a direct counter, while mirage suffers quite a bit against good holos and boonbeasts and good thieves 100-0 a mirage no problem. Not to mention core guards are rising up and counter condi mirage too. > > > > all of the classes u just mentioned lose 1v1 to a condi mirage. > > > > there is this interesting thing where people who do not actually understand match ups regurgitate the narrative they are told without actually testing it. > > > > boonbeast, conversion holo, s/d thief and core guard all lose 1v1 to condi mirage. > > > > one of the MAJOR reasons why flandre's team won last month was because boyce (boonbeast) was completely checked by condi mirage forcing him to team-fight on a build that is not suited for the role. > > > > as far as short's video, that is not the strongest condi build for mirage, torch offhand is the reason why it isnt, there is a better option that puts out FAR more pressure. > > sword / shield conversion holo loses to condi mirage ? Last I remember It didn't lose to holo AT all, WAY to much condi cleanses/sustain for sword/shield conversion holo to lose that fight. > > Everything else you are right though, Boonbeast loses the match up depending on the skill level of said players on said classes. However I agree, Condi Mirage is pretty aids in this game at the moment with almost 0 skills needed to play the class and land an actual burst unlike power mirage. I just Don't Understand the lack of understanding on how to properly nerf the class without making it so.....weak. > > Anyway this isn't something new I saw this coming after reading the portal nerf, they pretty much gave mesmer a utility to use now for duels making them stronger. if you would like to 1v1 conversion holo against condi mirage id be more than willing if u r on NA. of all the side noders conversion definitely has the best match up against condi mirage, but its still a win for the mirage. as far as power versus condi required input, id argue they are about the same level, there is minimal set up required for either to burst, the free utility slot has definitely opened the class up to filling interesting roles now which is appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"UfoCoffee.2084" said: > > Mesmer is my second most played profession. I know exactly how they work. I played condi for a long time. I don't need to learn anything I admitted they were op when I was playing as it as I'm an honest person. > > > > I was referring to axe damage where they nerfed the power value on it? I mean kitten? > > > > All of you defending mesmer are clearly mesmer mains in denial desperately trying to avoid nerfs who like playing god mode. > > > > I felt guilty playing as mes going far and meeting a warrior and killing him by rolling my face over the keyboard. > > > > All well known good mesmers admit condi mes is simple to play and op as kitten. > > > > Pink shorts hates having to play condi but whenever he sees a tough opponent on the other team he switches over to it because it's op. > > The problem isn't that mesmer players won't admit it's OP, many say frequently the condition output is too much. > > The problem is ANet keeps nerfing everything BUT the condition output which makes non meta, hard to play builds even worse. > > Here's a great example of changes based on "the community" which have lead to nerfs, sure EM was justified but many weren't really and the builds affected were considered weak in the meta at the time. > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > Naah, more likely: > > Community: Mesmer needs less dodges, less mobility, less sustain damage, less burst, less sustain, less clones, less hp. > > Mesmer mains: Mesmer needs either less burst or less sustain damage and for mirage cloak not to activate while stunned. > > > > > @"Spartacus.3192" said: > > > So when people say mesmer is ANET's favorite class, they're not kidding. > > > > I would say ANet's favorite ~~class~~ profession is non of the 9, it's the forums' baddies. > > "Elusive Mind is op" (which all mesmers warned before PoF released) > > ANet deleted EM from game > > > > "Look at how much evade uptime mirage has!" > > ANet - Vigor nerfed to oblivion, rune of adventurer/sigil of energy nerfed > > > > "Portal needs to go, it's so op" > > ANet - Portal deleted > > > > "Gosh BF needs to be tonedown!" > > ANet - BF nerfed > > > > "Are you blind ANet? Power mesmer is so op, 100-0 in one sec!" > > Power block, Mental Anguish and Confunding Suggestions nerfed. > > > > This are all true and you can look for the complains just before the nerf arrived on forums. > > > > And there are many more examples, feel free to ask for them. > > Mmm. Accurate. In hindsight it does seem like the direction with mesmer balance -has- actually followed the forum whining, which is why it hasn't fixed the problem. I need to look at this again. I don't think it's the condition application frequency 100% yet, but I'll revisit in case there's something I missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solori.6025 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > @"Solori.6025" said: > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > @"XECOR.2814" said: > > > > Mirage mains have arrived to flood the post with git gud and secure their broken spec. > > > > > > This video by shorts was released after latest patch. He explains how the build works and yes, he was able to one shot in few kills > > > > > > > > > > > > > Power mes doesn't work the same in spvp....Do you even play this game?!? > > (I was pointing out power mesmer, i did not make any claims that it worked in pvp) > Advice to you: before you start raging or being aggressive , look for it or even ask shorts for the builds he uses. He will gladly answer any questions that you may have, calmly :) Thank You!! > Pvp version > This is an spvp subforum I assume you may not know what that means as you linked a WvW video which has nothing to do with spvp. Your claim that power mes one shots. In spvp that is untrue. If you bothered to watch the video you linked he even says. You can't one shot with the build. And goes on to explain why the build is great at team fights and how that build folds under pressure. I'm not raging at you. Just pointing out your clear and biased ignorance against an entire profession. This isn't the first time you have done this either. Also. Parts of that build. Like the domination grandmaster were nerfed. Putting some of its damage further behind. For a team fighting build you could do more on other classes than that power mirage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solori.6025 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 > @"Axl.8924" said: > > @"kodesh.2851" said: > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > How about instead of nerfing mesmers condi they first nerf condi cleanses instead of having to wreck another condi spec? > > > > > > Seriously, no more breaking specs. > > > > > > Anet should rather listen to people who know how the spec performs at max level, so before anymore nerfs happen, I want some information on the performance on all Mesmer specs such as chronomancer core and mirage. > > > > > > > Well condi mes takes no clears atm other than Jaunt, which was just nerfed, so congrats Anet has granted your wish > > While I did complain earlier this year about mesmers and mirage especially, I do not wish the class to be destroyed. > > I don't want condi mirage to disappear because of some sort of anger towards it. I am concerned that any other possible nerfs could destroy mesmers completely. > > I also have a alt Mesmer who play as chronomancer for support who is now completely shaved and im concerned about the viability, since I heard now I have to use wells and tell people to stand in them, which can frankly be sometimes pretty hard. > Yea that is an issue. Anet seems to take the advice of people who have very little clue about the profession and nerf things around the actual issue with out ever touching the thing that is overperforming. Remember when the spvp community complained that Torch was the problem? Instead of listening to the people that played the class and basically laid out what the real issue was. Anet nerfed torch. Unsurprisingly. It didn't fix condi mes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > @"UfoCoffee.2084" said: > > > Mesmer is my second most played profession. I know exactly how they work. I played condi for a long time. I don't need to learn anything I admitted they were op when I was playing as it as I'm an honest person. > > > > > > I was referring to axe damage where they nerfed the power value on it? I mean kitten? > > > > > > All of you defending mesmer are clearly mesmer mains in denial desperately trying to avoid nerfs who like playing god mode. > > > > > > I felt guilty playing as mes going far and meeting a warrior and killing him by rolling my face over the keyboard. > > > > > > All well known good mesmers admit condi mes is simple to play and op as kitten. > > > > > > Pink shorts hates having to play condi but whenever he sees a tough opponent on the other team he switches over to it because it's op. > > > > The problem isn't that mesmer players won't admit it's OP, many say frequently the condition output is too much. > > > > The problem is ANet keeps nerfing everything BUT the condition output which makes non meta, hard to play builds even worse. > > > > Here's a great example of changes based on "the community" which have lead to nerfs, sure EM was justified but many weren't really and the builds affected were considered weak in the meta at the time. > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > Naah, more likely: > > > Community: Mesmer needs less dodges, less mobility, less sustain damage, less burst, less sustain, less clones, less hp. > > > Mesmer mains: Mesmer needs either less burst or less sustain damage and for mirage cloak not to activate while stunned. > > > > > > > @"Spartacus.3192" said: > > > > So when people say mesmer is ANET's favorite class, they're not kidding. > > > > > > I would say ANet's favorite ~~class~~ profession is non of the 9, it's the forums' baddies. > > > "Elusive Mind is op" (which all mesmers warned before PoF released) > > > ANet deleted EM from game > > > > > > "Look at how much evade uptime mirage has!" > > > ANet - Vigor nerfed to oblivion, rune of adventurer/sigil of energy nerfed > > > > > > "Portal needs to go, it's so op" > > > ANet - Portal deleted > > > > > > "Gosh BF needs to be tonedown!" > > > ANet - BF nerfed > > > > > > "Are you blind ANet? Power mesmer is so op, 100-0 in one sec!" > > > Power block, Mental Anguish and Confunding Suggestions nerfed. > > > > > > This are all true and you can look for the complains just before the nerf arrived on forums. > > > > > > And there are many more examples, feel free to ask for them. > > > > > > Mmm. Accurate. In hindsight it does seem like the direction with mesmer balance -has- actually followed the forum whining, which is why it hasn't fixed the problem. > I need to look at this again. I don't think it's the condition application frequency 100% yet, but I'll revisit in case there's something I missed. > There's a number of factors to be honest. Confusion AND torment as the main conditions creates an incredibly oppressive experience due to movement being so emphasised and high confusion shuts down skill use. - This is probably the biggest concern and one of the reasons why condi chrono was strong. It can burst the conditions onto you very quickly when properly set up. - The other biggest issue. Evade while CC'd probably shouldn't be in the game, likewise there shouldn't be builds that can effectively perma CC you with long durations till you run out of stunbreaks. Has objectively a lot of evades through weapon skills and extra on illusionary ambush though it's on par with active defences across meta classes. Scepter is FAR TOO STRONG. It's clunky yes but the block when traited is too low CD and too strong. Power damage on confusing images is too high too. From: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/62841/mesmer-changes-out-of-touch-with-player-base > @"apharma.3741" said: > "We want mirages to excel in longer combat engagements, but their burst damage was just too high." - yet they nerfed most of a mirages defences over the last year while bringing them over to nerfing core traits and skills so even chrono and core is affected. > > If you want mirage to be less bursty remove everything from jaunt and leave it as a 20s CD condi cleanse and teleport (purity of purpose). > Stop nerfing vigor and instead nerf the damage they do from ambush skills so they stack conditions slowly. > How's about giving them weak stacking conditions like bleed/poison instead of blooming torment and confusion? > > It's not just a bit out of touch with the playerbase it's the right hand not knowing what the left is doing. > > From the devs I've spoken to they seem fairly nice people and really passionate about the game so believe me I don't like having to say this but it's very inconsistent what they say and then what they do. 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losingcontrol.1084 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 > @"Vicariuz.1605" said: > > @"losingcontrol.1084" said: > > Boonbeast is way worse right now, and can counter condi mirage pretty easily in any 1vs1, and for now I don't think it has a direct counter, while mirage suffers quite a bit against good holos and boonbeasts and good thieves 100-0 a mirage no problem. Not to mention core guards are rising up and counter condi mirage too. > > all of the classes u just mentioned lose 1v1 to a condi mirage. > > there is this interesting thing where people who do not actually understand match ups regurgitate the narrative they are told without actually testing it. > > boonbeast, conversion holo, s/d thief and core guard all lose 1v1 to condi mirage. > > one of the MAJOR reasons why flandre's team won last month was because boyce (boonbeast) was completely checked by condi mirage forcing him to teamfight on a build that is not suited for the role. > > as far as short's video, that is not the strongest condi build for mirage, torch offhand is the reason why it isnt, there is a better option that puts out FAR more pressure. Wth are you saying? Boonbeast even before patch was able to win against condi mirage. Now with the recent patch even more. If a boonbeast loses to a condi mirage it's a completely handless man, seriously what game are you playing? And notice im not a mirage main and i am.not defending it, but trust me boonbeast right now has no hard counter in any 1vs1. All the specs i mentioned lose against condi mirage? Yeah now tell that even core thief is hard countered by condi mirage and win a prize xD Equal skill level boonbeast should never lose against mirage, even if the boonbeast is lower skill level the chances to win are high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicariuz.1605 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 > @"losingcontrol.1084" said: > > @"Vicariuz.1605" said: > > > @"losingcontrol.1084" said: > > > Boonbeast is way worse right now, and can counter condi mirage pretty easily in any 1vs1, and for now I don't think it has a direct counter, while mirage suffers quite a bit against good holos and boonbeasts and good thieves 100-0 a mirage no problem. Not to mention core guards are rising up and counter condi mirage too. > > > > all of the classes u just mentioned lose 1v1 to a condi mirage. > > > > there is this interesting thing where people who do not actually understand match ups regurgitate the narrative they are told without actually testing it. > > > > boonbeast, conversion holo, s/d thief and core guard all lose 1v1 to condi mirage. > > > > one of the MAJOR reasons why flandre's team won last month was because boyce (boonbeast) was completely checked by condi mirage forcing him to teamfight on a build that is not suited for the role. > > > > as far as short's video, that is not the strongest condi build for mirage, torch offhand is the reason why it isnt, there is a better option that puts out FAR more pressure. > > Wth are you saying? > Boonbeast even before patch was able to win against condi mirage. > > Now with the recent patch even more. > If a boonbeast loses to a condi mirage it's a completely handless man, seriously what game are you playing? > > And notice im not a mirage main and i am.not defending it, but trust me boonbeast right now has no hard counter in any 1vs1. > > All the specs i mentioned lose against condi mirage? Yeah now tell that even core thief is hard countered by condi mirage and win a prize xD > > Equal skill level boonbeast should never lose against mirage, even if the boonbeast is lower skill level the chances to win are high. if you would like to see what im talking about feel free to watch the vod of the last monthly and pay attention to the flandre v boyce match up. are you implying that boyce is just bad for losing 1v1 to condi mirage as boonbeast? its very obvious you arent a mirage main, you have no idea what the match ups for the 1v1 are. if you would like i will 1v1 you on condi mirage against all of those classes to show you. im on NA feel free to whisper me in game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 > @"coro.3176" said: > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > How about instead of nerfing mesmers condi they first nerf condi cleanses instead of having to wreck another condi spec? > > > > Seriously, no more breaking specs. > > > > Anet should rather listen to people who know how the spec performs at max level, so before anymore nerfs happen, I want some information on the performance on all Mesmer specs such as chronomancer core and mirage. > > > > > > > > This should be obvious to them. How many people are playing condi on other classes... > > * engi? approximately zero > * revenant? approximately zero > * ranger? approximately zero > * warrior? approximately zero > * thief? approximately zero > * guardian? approximately zero > * necro? eh, some > * mesmer? almost all > > Maybe .. just MAYBE it's because condi mirage and to a lesser extent scourge are the only viable condi builds right now. > > Why is this? They're the only ones that can overwhelm the amount of cleanse in the game. > > Solution? Nerf the amount of cleanse in the game until the other builds are playable, then nerf the only 2 overperforming builds down to match the rest. Part of the issue is that Anet did really understand the remfications of the blanket nerf to condi damage with increasing duration and lowering stacks across all classes, done a year ago. There were so many related issues, like condi cleanse, requirement for some builds to be in melee without mirage ability to avoid damage. Reliance on 1-2 condis for damage. Anet did not address any of this. They did not even to subsequently try remedy any of these issues, and thus we barely have viable condi builds in PvP. What is even funnier, at the time of the patch, only mirage and scourge as condi builds were meta (plus the occasional thief) and remained so after the nerf. So why did we need the overall condi nerf? I dunno, and there does not seem to be any logical explanations. This undoubtedly was the worst decision ever made by Anet balance team. And the balance team has been sucking hard as of late. Ya, they do nerf outperforming stuff most of the time. But it seems unusable skills never get touched. Even worse, some of the nerfs, due to lack of in-depth understanding and/or testing, tend to nerf non-meta builds. This is destroying the already limited diversity the game has. As for mirage, I do think that nerfing portal was years overdue. But some of the other nerfs are baffling, like Jaunt nerf or signet of Midnight nerf. And for some reason, mirage in PvE, which was not even meta, was nerfed. I really do not understand why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneQR.7412 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 > @"Solori.6025" said: > Make a boonbeast? Ranger has the best 1v1 specs in the game you shouldnt have an issue. Ranger will get the nerfbat next, have fun playing until then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losingcontrol.1084 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 > @"Vicariuz.1605" said: > > @"losingcontrol.1084" said: > > > @"Vicariuz.1605" said: > > > > @"losingcontrol.1084" said: > > > > Boonbeast is way worse right now, and can counter condi mirage pretty easily in any 1vs1, and for now I don't think it has a direct counter, while mirage suffers quite a bit against good holos and boonbeasts and good thieves 100-0 a mirage no problem. Not to mention core guards are rising up and counter condi mirage too. > > > > > > all of the classes u just mentioned lose 1v1 to a condi mirage. > > > > > > there is this interesting thing where people who do not actually understand match ups regurgitate the narrative they are told without actually testing it. > > > > > > boonbeast, conversion holo, s/d thief and core guard all lose 1v1 to condi mirage. > > > > > > one of the MAJOR reasons why flandre's team won last month was because boyce (boonbeast) was completely checked by condi mirage forcing him to teamfight on a build that is not suited for the role. > > > > > > as far as short's video, that is not the strongest condi build for mirage, torch offhand is the reason why it isnt, there is a better option that puts out FAR more pressure. > > > > Wth are you saying? > > Boonbeast even before patch was able to win against condi mirage. > > > > Now with the recent patch even more. > > If a boonbeast loses to a condi mirage it's a completely handless man, seriously what game are you playing? > > > > And notice im not a mirage main and i am.not defending it, but trust me boonbeast right now has no hard counter in any 1vs1. > > > > All the specs i mentioned lose against condi mirage? Yeah now tell that even core thief is hard countered by condi mirage and win a prize xD > > > > Equal skill level boonbeast should never lose against mirage, even if the boonbeast is lower skill level the chances to win are high. > > if you would like to see what im talking about feel free to watch the vod of the last monthly and pay attention to the flandre v boyce match up. > are you implying that boyce is just bad for losing 1v1 to condi mirage as boonbeast? its very obvious you arent a mirage main, you have no idea what the match ups for the 1v1 are. > if you would like i will 1v1 you on condi mirage against all of those classes to show you. im on NA feel free to whisper me in game. Man, tramadex was even able to win as tramawarrior against an holosmith (thysken i guess sorry bad spelling of his name) when actually holo was supposed to be an hard counter to tramawar(tetherwarrior). So that doesn't mean anything. At that high level of gameplay things like that happens. With the recent buffs to dolyak no way a good boonbeast loses against a condi mirage. I don't know what rank you are but have clearly no idea, and a single match where boyce loses to a condi mirage doesn't mean anything at all. Sorry im on eu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 > @"otto.5684" said: > > @"coro.3176" said: > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > How about instead of nerfing mesmers condi they first nerf condi cleanses instead of having to wreck another condi spec? > > > > > > Seriously, no more breaking specs. > > > > > > Anet should rather listen to people who know how the spec performs at max level, so before anymore nerfs happen, I want some information on the performance on all Mesmer specs such as chronomancer core and mirage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > This should be obvious to them. How many people are playing condi on other classes... > > > > * engi? approximately zero > > * revenant? approximately zero > > * ranger? approximately zero > > * warrior? approximately zero > > * thief? approximately zero > > * guardian? approximately zero > > * necro? eh, some > > * mesmer? almost all > > > > Maybe .. just MAYBE it's because condi mirage and to a lesser extent scourge are the only viable condi builds right now. > > > > Why is this? They're the only ones that can overwhelm the amount of cleanse in the game. > > > > Solution? Nerf the amount of cleanse in the game until the other builds are playable, then nerf the only 2 overperforming builds down to match the rest. > > Part of the issue is that Anet did really understand the remfications of the blanket nerf to condi damage with increasing duration and lowering stacks across all classes, done a year ago. There were so many related issues, like condi cleanse, requirement for some builds to be in melee without mirage ability to avoid damage. Reliance on 1-2 condis for damage. Anet did not address any of this. They did not even to subsequently try remedy any of these issues, and thus we barely have viable condi builds in PvP. What is even funnier, at the time of the patch, only mirage and scourge as condi builds were meta (plus the occasional thief) and remained so after the nerf. So why did we need the overall condi nerf? I dunno, and there does not seem to be any logical explanations. > > This undoubtedly was the worst decision ever made by Anet balance team. And the balance team has been sucking hard as of late. Ya, they do nerf outperforming stuff most of the time. But it seems unusable skills never get touched. Even worse, some of the nerfs, due to lack of in-depth understanding and/or testing, tend to nerf non-meta builds. This is destroying the already limited diversity the game has. > > As for mirage, I do think that nerfing portal was years overdue. But some of the other nerfs are baffling, like Jaunt nerf or signet of Midnight nerf. And for some reason, mirage in PvE, which was not even meta, was nerfed. I really do not understand why. It's unclear whether it's that condition builds are so bad after the nerfs or whether it's a case that the power builds are so much better in every way. It's obvious that the 2 strongest condition builds would be considered overpowered when looking at only condition builds vs condition builds. If you were comparing condition builds that aren't condi mirage or scourge they might be slightly under performing after progressive buffs to **SOME** clears on **SOME** classes over time since HoT and PoF due to the creep in condition application and then subsequent nerfs to application. It's very difficult to really get a handle on the state of condition builds while power options are so much better. Even then not every class/build is equal in condition management for the playstyle/build they need. Example, thieves and mesmer's roles suffer considerably for taking more condition cleansing as they need to trait for damage. By comparison a guardian gets greater condition management while enabling an offensive style through double smite condition and monks focus with Virtues line offering management while giving excellent utility in general to all playstyles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicariuz.1605 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 > @"losingcontrol.1084" said: > > @"Vicariuz.1605" said: > > > @"losingcontrol.1084" said: > > > > @"Vicariuz.1605" said: > > > > > @"losingcontrol.1084" said: > > > > > Boonbeast is way worse right now, and can counter condi mirage pretty easily in any 1vs1, and for now I don't think it has a direct counter, while mirage suffers quite a bit against good holos and boonbeasts and good thieves 100-0 a mirage no problem. Not to mention core guards are rising up and counter condi mirage too. > > > > > > > > all of the classes u just mentioned lose 1v1 to a condi mirage. > > > > > > > > there is this interesting thing where people who do not actually understand match ups regurgitate the narrative they are told without actually testing it. > > > > > > > > boonbeast, conversion holo, s/d thief and core guard all lose 1v1 to condi mirage. > > > > > > > > one of the MAJOR reasons why flandre's team won last month was because boyce (boonbeast) was completely checked by condi mirage forcing him to teamfight on a build that is not suited for the role. > > > > > > > > as far as short's video, that is not the strongest condi build for mirage, torch offhand is the reason why it isnt, there is a better option that puts out FAR more pressure. > > > > > > Wth are you saying? > > > Boonbeast even before patch was able to win against condi mirage. > > > > > > Now with the recent patch even more. > > > If a boonbeast loses to a condi mirage it's a completely handless man, seriously what game are you playing? > > > > > > And notice im not a mirage main and i am.not defending it, but trust me boonbeast right now has no hard counter in any 1vs1. > > > > > > All the specs i mentioned lose against condi mirage? Yeah now tell that even core thief is hard countered by condi mirage and win a prize xD > > > > > > Equal skill level boonbeast should never lose against mirage, even if the boonbeast is lower skill level the chances to win are high. > > > > if you would like to see what im talking about feel free to watch the vod of the last monthly and pay attention to the flandre v boyce match up. > > are you implying that boyce is just bad for losing 1v1 to condi mirage as boonbeast? its very obvious you arent a mirage main, you have no idea what the match ups for the 1v1 are. > > if you would like i will 1v1 you on condi mirage against all of those classes to show you. im on NA feel free to whisper me in game. > > Man, tramadex was even able to win as tramawarrior against an holosmith (thysken i guess sorry bad spelling of his name) when actually holo was supposed to be an hard counter to tramawar(tetherwarrior). So that doesn't mean anything. > > At that high level of gameplay things like that happens. > > With the recent buffs to dolyak no way a good boonbeast loses against a condi mirage. > I don't know what rank you are but have clearly no idea, and a single match where boyce loses to a condi mirage doesn't mean anything at all. > > Sorry im on eu. im top 50 on eu right now and regularly legend/plat 3 on NA (have top 25/200/250 titles for na) my eu acct is core only otherwise i would show you there. since u wont take my word for it, ask flandre to show u. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > @"coro.3176" said: > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > How about instead of nerfing mesmers condi they first nerf condi cleanses instead of having to wreck another condi spec? > > > > > > > > Seriously, no more breaking specs. > > > > > > > > Anet should rather listen to people who know how the spec performs at max level, so before anymore nerfs happen, I want some information on the performance on all Mesmer specs such as chronomancer core and mirage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This should be obvious to them. How many people are playing condi on other classes... > > > > > > * engi? approximately zero > > > * revenant? approximately zero > > > * ranger? approximately zero > > > * warrior? approximately zero > > > * thief? approximately zero > > > * guardian? approximately zero > > > * necro? eh, some > > > * mesmer? almost all > > > > > > Maybe .. just MAYBE it's because condi mirage and to a lesser extent scourge are the only viable condi builds right now. > > > > > > Why is this? They're the only ones that can overwhelm the amount of cleanse in the game. > > > > > > Solution? Nerf the amount of cleanse in the game until the other builds are playable, then nerf the only 2 overperforming builds down to match the rest. > > > > Part of the issue is that Anet did really understand the remfications of the blanket nerf to condi damage with increasing duration and lowering stacks across all classes, done a year ago. There were so many related issues, like condi cleanse, requirement for some builds to be in melee without mirage ability to avoid damage. Reliance on 1-2 condis for damage. Anet did not address any of this. They did not even to subsequently try remedy any of these issues, and thus we barely have viable condi builds in PvP. What is even funnier, at the time of the patch, only mirage and scourge as condi builds were meta (plus the occasional thief) and remained so after the nerf. So why did we need the overall condi nerf? I dunno, and there does not seem to be any logical explanations. > > > > This undoubtedly was the worst decision ever made by Anet balance team. And the balance team has been sucking hard as of late. Ya, they do nerf outperforming stuff most of the time. But it seems unusable skills never get touched. Even worse, some of the nerfs, due to lack of in-depth understanding and/or testing, tend to nerf non-meta builds. This is destroying the already limited diversity the game has. > > > > As for mirage, I do think that nerfing portal was years overdue. But some of the other nerfs are baffling, like Jaunt nerf or signet of Midnight nerf. And for some reason, mirage in PvE, which was not even meta, was nerfed. I really do not understand why. > > It's unclear whether it's that condition builds are so bad after the nerfs or whether it's a case that the power builds are so much better in every way. > > It's obvious that the 2 strongest condition builds would be considered overpowered when looking at only condition builds vs condition builds. If you were comparing condition builds that aren't condi mirage or scourge they might be slightly under performing after progressive buffs to **SOME** clears on **SOME** classes over time since HoT and PoF due to the creep in condition application and then subsequent nerfs to application. > > It's very difficult to really get a handle on the state of condition builds while power options are so much better. Even then not every class/build is equal in condition management for the playstyle/build they need. Example, thieves and mesmer's roles suffer considerably for taking more condition cleansing as they need to trait for damage. By comparison a guardian gets greater condition management while enabling an offensive style through double smite condition and monks focus with Virtues line offering management while giving excellent utility in general to all playstyles. While there has been an increase in overall damage since PoF, the primary reason that power options are so much better now, is that most condi builds take way too much time to kill anything. They can still somewhat work in isolation (1v1 or small encounter). In team fights, they do not pose enough pressure. Even if we nerf most power builds tomorrow, I cannot think of any condi build that can do well in a team fights except scourge or mirage (more so in team fights). Contrary to the believe, condi builds need to be bursty to pose a threat. The concept of damage over time does not work when most classes can nullify most of the incoming damage for prolonged periods. The game has fundamental issues with condi damage, HP pools, boon application and boon RIP. The massaging patches Anet have been doing lately do not fix shit. This is why the meta has been extremely stagnant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laila Lightness.8742 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 > @"apharma.3741" said: > I'm glad they took care of all these power mesmers going around trying to one shot people but not being able to because it's just not good outside of stealth gank. This was easily the change needed for mesmer. 10/10 best patch ever, see you in AoC. I still do it XD with power mirage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 > @"otto.5684" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > > @"coro.3176" said: > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > How about instead of nerfing mesmers condi they first nerf condi cleanses instead of having to wreck another condi spec? > > > > > > > > > > Seriously, no more breaking specs. > > > > > > > > > > Anet should rather listen to people who know how the spec performs at max level, so before anymore nerfs happen, I want some information on the performance on all Mesmer specs such as chronomancer core and mirage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This should be obvious to them. How many people are playing condi on other classes... > > > > > > > > * engi? approximately zero > > > > * revenant? approximately zero > > > > * ranger? approximately zero > > > > * warrior? approximately zero > > > > * thief? approximately zero > > > > * guardian? approximately zero > > > > * necro? eh, some > > > > * mesmer? almost all > > > > > > > > Maybe .. just MAYBE it's because condi mirage and to a lesser extent scourge are the only viable condi builds right now. > > > > > > > > Why is this? They're the only ones that can overwhelm the amount of cleanse in the game. > > > > > > > > Solution? Nerf the amount of cleanse in the game until the other builds are playable, then nerf the only 2 overperforming builds down to match the rest. > > > > > > Part of the issue is that Anet did really understand the remfications of the blanket nerf to condi damage with increasing duration and lowering stacks across all classes, done a year ago. There were so many related issues, like condi cleanse, requirement for some builds to be in melee without mirage ability to avoid damage. Reliance on 1-2 condis for damage. Anet did not address any of this. They did not even to subsequently try remedy any of these issues, and thus we barely have viable condi builds in PvP. What is even funnier, at the time of the patch, only mirage and scourge as condi builds were meta (plus the occasional thief) and remained so after the nerf. So why did we need the overall condi nerf? I dunno, and there does not seem to be any logical explanations. > > > > > > This undoubtedly was the worst decision ever made by Anet balance team. And the balance team has been sucking hard as of late. Ya, they do nerf outperforming stuff most of the time. But it seems unusable skills never get touched. Even worse, some of the nerfs, due to lack of in-depth understanding and/or testing, tend to nerf non-meta builds. This is destroying the already limited diversity the game has. > > > > > > As for mirage, I do think that nerfing portal was years overdue. But some of the other nerfs are baffling, like Jaunt nerf or signet of Midnight nerf. And for some reason, mirage in PvE, which was not even meta, was nerfed. I really do not understand why. > > > > It's unclear whether it's that condition builds are so bad after the nerfs or whether it's a case that the power builds are so much better in every way. > > > > It's obvious that the 2 strongest condition builds would be considered overpowered when looking at only condition builds vs condition builds. If you were comparing condition builds that aren't condi mirage or scourge they might be slightly under performing after progressive buffs to **SOME** clears on **SOME** classes over time since HoT and PoF due to the creep in condition application and then subsequent nerfs to application. > > > > It's very difficult to really get a handle on the state of condition builds while power options are so much better. Even then not every class/build is equal in condition management for the playstyle/build they need. Example, thieves and mesmer's roles suffer considerably for taking more condition cleansing as they need to trait for damage. By comparison a guardian gets greater condition management while enabling an offensive style through double smite condition and monks focus with Virtues line offering management while giving excellent utility in general to all playstyles. > > While there has been an increase in overall damage since PoF, the primary reason that power options are so much better now, is that most condi builds take way too much time to kill anything. They can still somewhat work in isolation (1v1 or small encounter). In team fights, they do not pose enough pressure. Even if we nerf most power builds tomorrow, I cannot think of any condi build that can do well in a team fights except scourge or mirage (more so in team fights). > > Contrary to the believe, condi builds need to be bursty to pose a threat. The concept of damage over time does not work when most classes can nullify most of the incoming damage for prolonged periods. > > The game has fundamental issues with condi damage, HP pools, boon application and boon RIP. The massaging patches Anet have been doing lately do not fix kitten. This is why the meta has been extremely stagnant. > > Which is why I said one you have to get rid of most condi cleanses, and two: You need long duration condies that are hard to clear but last long enough that if forgotten about or not paid attention to, will kill you, somewhat like in wow. its kinda hard to pull off though, since every class has a different kind of condi, and some do more damage than others. Bleeds being the least ones Burns and torments being the most. Every other type is just some sort of offensive thing known as a debuff in other games, or some thing that only works in very specific situations, like:Poison lowering healing, and what did confuse do again? it makes you hurt yourself if you attack? I feel some specs are going to need some condis either to be more standardized, or the ability to place large amount of 1 kind of condi to actually harm. 3 or 4 bleeds wont kill anyone, but 20 might. At the same time, I also think its a bad idea for condi specs to insta burs, because we will be back to the mess we had previously. Anet did right in nerfing condis, but they should have also nerfed cleanses. Nerf the cleanses, we will be better, since we wont have condis that insta burst making the game no fun, and we wont have cleanses instantly nullifying all condition based builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gateless gate.8406 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Mirage remains a fundamentally toxic class design (in PVP): Stealth, blink, clones, evasion, damage over time. In virtually all serious competitive games, those elements are designed VERY carefully lest a class get out of control. Even if their numbers are tuned low, they can make PVP fundamentally obnoxious, frustrating, and unfun. In GW2, those elements have instead all been piled into one class. Very, very bad decision and it will continue to drag down PVP participation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coro.3176 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > @"coro.3176" said: > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > How about instead of nerfing mesmers condi they first nerf condi cleanses instead of having to wreck another condi spec? > > > > > > > > Seriously, no more breaking specs. > > > > > > > > Anet should rather listen to people who know how the spec performs at max level, so before anymore nerfs happen, I want some information on the performance on all Mesmer specs such as chronomancer core and mirage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This should be obvious to them. How many people are playing condi on other classes... > > > > > > * engi? approximately zero > > > * revenant? approximately zero > > > * ranger? approximately zero > > > * warrior? approximately zero > > > * thief? approximately zero > > > * guardian? approximately zero > > > * necro? eh, some > > > * mesmer? almost all > > > > > > Maybe .. just MAYBE it's because condi mirage and to a lesser extent scourge are the only viable condi builds right now. > > > > > > Why is this? They're the only ones that can overwhelm the amount of cleanse in the game. > > > > > > Solution? Nerf the amount of cleanse in the game until the other builds are playable, then nerf the only 2 overperforming builds down to match the rest. > > > > Part of the issue is that Anet did really understand the remfications of the blanket nerf to condi damage with increasing duration and lowering stacks across all classes, done a year ago. There were so many related issues, like condi cleanse, requirement for some builds to be in melee without mirage ability to avoid damage. Reliance on 1-2 condis for damage. Anet did not address any of this. They did not even to subsequently try remedy any of these issues, and thus we barely have viable condi builds in PvP. What is even funnier, at the time of the patch, only mirage and scourge as condi builds were meta (plus the occasional thief) and remained so after the nerf. So why did we need the overall condi nerf? I dunno, and there does not seem to be any logical explanations. > > > > This undoubtedly was the worst decision ever made by Anet balance team. And the balance team has been sucking hard as of late. Ya, they do nerf outperforming stuff most of the time. But it seems unusable skills never get touched. Even worse, some of the nerfs, due to lack of in-depth understanding and/or testing, tend to nerf non-meta builds. This is destroying the already limited diversity the game has. > > > > As for mirage, I do think that nerfing portal was years overdue. But some of the other nerfs are baffling, like Jaunt nerf or signet of Midnight nerf. And for some reason, mirage in PvE, which was not even meta, was nerfed. I really do not understand why. > > It's unclear whether it's that condition builds are so bad after the nerfs or whether it's a case that the power builds are so much better in every way. > > It's obvious that the 2 strongest condition builds would be considered overpowered when looking at only condition builds vs condition builds. If you were comparing condition builds that aren't condi mirage or scourge they might be slightly under performing after progressive buffs to **SOME** clears on **SOME** classes over time since HoT and PoF due to the creep in condition application and then subsequent nerfs to application. > > It's very difficult to really get a handle on the state of condition builds while power options are so much better. Even then not every class/build is equal in condition management for the playstyle/build they need. Example, thieves and mesmer's roles suffer considerably for taking more condition cleansing as they need to trait for damage. By comparison a guardian gets greater condition management while enabling an offensive style through double smite condition and monks focus with Virtues line offering management while giving excellent utility in general to all playstyles. You raise a good point. If all the power burst disappeared tomorrow (say, back to ~2015 levels), it'd be tough to say if condi could find a foothold. .. but I think the answer is still no. The existence of certain cleansing traits make it all but impossible for any condi build that isn't mirage (because of the constant reapplication + burst) or scourge (because of the corrupt) to make a dent in them - especially the ones that cleanse from allies as well because that just multiplies the amount of cleanse in a teamfight. It shouldn't be the case that 1-2 supports in a teamfight can effectively nullify ALL condi damage by cleansing allies. If we want to have supports cleansing allies, that's fine, but then we also need to reduce some of the personal cleanse that dps specs have. There are things like the Rune of Evasion + Woven Stride + Cleansing Water synergy which is just constant cleanse. There's Wilderness Knowledge on a Survival Skill build. There's Anticorrosion Plating combined with all the protection Holo has access to. There's Shake It Off in addition to Cleansing Ire and Berserker's Stance. The amount of cleanse available to classes is truly insane. Right now, people only run maybe a third of what they could. Non-mirage, non-scourge condi builds can never be popular while that kind of cleanse exists in the game. .. They would need so much more cover condi, it'd be ridiculous. Every condi build autoattack would have to apply like 3 conditions.. That's not healthy gameplay. I would much prefer long conditions and low cleanse. On my engi build, I get by with a single cleansing skill every 20s that cleanses 2 conditions - healing turret. Everything else, I survive by avoiding or blocking the condi attacks themselves. IMO that's how it should be. You shouldn't eat the condi attacks all day and cleanse on repeat. You should have to avoid them like you do with power. 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Jugglemonkey.8741 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > @"phokus.8934" said: > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > @"everyman.4375" said: > > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > > > @"Kilar.4791" said: > > > > > > > @"everyman.4375" said: > > > > > > > There's already another post saying the exact same thing and 2000 saying relatively the same thing so why do you feel the need to create another post ? > > > > > > > I think you should just ask a mesmer player to help you understand the class and do some duels, after less than an hour of playing you'll understand that mesmer is not just applying conditions over and over. > > > > > > > > > > > > He made this post to cry, not to learn. > > > > > > > > > > It is not his job to learn. Once again; It is Anet job to finally take a stand that this ongoing epidemic has negatively impacted any remaining fun-factor in the game competitive scenery. > > > > > > > > > > **Mesmer must hit rock bottom again. Except this time, in the right way** > > > > > > > > > > "Once you hit rock bottom, that's where you perfectly stand; That's your chance of restarting, but restarting the right way" > > > > > > > > It's not his job to learn but if he doesn't he has no right to complain. > > > > > > He including everyone else including myself in Guild Wars 2 6 years run, has the right to complain about Mesmer toxicity and its bad design > > > > > > Here is a 5 years old video of a duel between an elementalist vs a condi mesmer. You be the judge > > > > > > > > > > You’re complaining about Revenant damage from hammer and wanting it nerfed. > > > > You’re clearly a subpar player who needs to look at his own game play mechanics and flat out, get better. > > > > Stop complaining in life and actually take the time to figure things out instead of having others do it for you. > > "Customer complaints are important" > > "And there’s no better way to collect direct feedback from your customers and improve your product or service. > > However, the way you handle a complaint is the difference between keeping a customer or losing one. So, the next time you receive a customer complaint, listen to what the customer has to say, apologize (!), find a solution and follow up to see if he or she is happy with the way you are handling it. > > In doing so, you are on your way to creating more loyal customers, improving your product and delivering a better quality of customer service." > > ---------- > > "When a customer makes a complaint, he or she is voicing a concern in relation to your product or service. However, not all complaints are to be treated equally and there are several questions to ask yourself before you take action, including": > > Has this happened before? > Have the complaints been recorded? > How often does the same compliant arise? > Is there a pattern to this complaint in how it was received? > Has the same customer reported this previously? > By answering these questions, you can take the necessary steps required to prevent them from happening again. "Nobody cares about complaints when they already have your money" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kondor.2904 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 > @"Vicariuz.1605" said: > > @"losingcontrol.1084" said: > > > @"Vicariuz.1605" said: > > > > @"losingcontrol.1084" said: > > > > Boonbeast is way worse right now, and can counter condi mirage pretty easily in any 1vs1, and for now I don't think it has a direct counter, while mirage suffers quite a bit against good holos and boonbeasts and good thieves 100-0 a mirage no problem. Not to mention core guards are rising up and counter condi mirage too. > > > > > > all of the classes u just mentioned lose 1v1 to a condi mirage. > > > > > > there is this interesting thing where people who do not actually understand match ups regurgitate the narrative they are told without actually testing it. > > > > > > boonbeast, conversion holo, s/d thief and core guard all lose 1v1 to condi mirage. > > > > > > one of the MAJOR reasons why flandre's team won last month was because boyce (boonbeast) was completely checked by condi mirage forcing him to teamfight on a build that is not suited for the role. > > > > > > as far as short's video, that is not the strongest condi build for mirage, torch offhand is the reason why it isnt, there is a better option that puts out FAR more pressure. > > > > Wth are you saying? > > Boonbeast even before patch was able to win against condi mirage. > > > > Now with the recent patch even more. > > If a boonbeast loses to a condi mirage it's a completely handless man, seriously what game are you playing? > > > > And notice im not a mirage main and i am.not defending it, but trust me boonbeast right now has no hard counter in any 1vs1. > > > > All the specs i mentioned lose against condi mirage? Yeah now tell that even core thief is hard countered by condi mirage and win a prize xD > > > > Equal skill level boonbeast should never lose against mirage, even if the boonbeast is lower skill level the chances to win are high. > > if you would like to see what im talking about feel free to watch the vod of the last monthly and pay attention to the flandre v boyce match up. > are you implying that boyce is just bad for losing 1v1 to condi mirage as boonbeast? its very obvious you arent a mirage main, you have no idea what the match ups for the 1v1 are. > if you would like i will 1v1 you on condi mirage against all of those classes to show you. im on NA feel free to whisper me in game. Yo, i just checked the monthly vod, can you actually link us the exact timestamp where the boonbeast lost 1v1 to a mes ? Because i failed to spot that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddy Law.2874 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 > @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said: > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > @"phokus.8934" said: > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > > @"everyman.4375" said: > > > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > > > > @"Kilar.4791" said: > > > > > > > > @"everyman.4375" said: > > > > > > > > There's already another post saying the exact same thing and 2000 saying relatively the same thing so why do you feel the need to create another post ? > > > > > > > > I think you should just ask a mesmer player to help you understand the class and do some duels, after less than an hour of playing you'll understand that mesmer is not just applying conditions over and over. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He made this post to cry, not to learn. > > > > > > > > > > > > It is not his job to learn. Once again; It is Anet job to finally take a stand that this ongoing epidemic has negatively impacted any remaining fun-factor in the game competitive scenery. > > > > > > > > > > > > **Mesmer must hit rock bottom again. Except this time, in the right way** > > > > > > > > > > > > "Once you hit rock bottom, that's where you perfectly stand; That's your chance of restarting, but restarting the right way" > > > > > > > > > > It's not his job to learn but if he doesn't he has no right to complain. > > > > > > > > He including everyone else including myself in Guild Wars 2 6 years run, has the right to complain about Mesmer toxicity and its bad design > > > > > > > > Here is a 5 years old video of a duel between an elementalist vs a condi mesmer. You be the judge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You’re complaining about Revenant damage from hammer and wanting it nerfed. > > > > > > You’re clearly a subpar player who needs to look at his own game play mechanics and flat out, get better. > > > > > > Stop complaining in life and actually take the time to figure things out instead of having others do it for you. > > > > "Customer complaints are important" > > > > "And there’s no better way to collect direct feedback from your customers and improve your product or service. > > > > However, the way you handle a complaint is the difference between keeping a customer or losing one. So, the next time you receive a customer complaint, listen to what the customer has to say, apologize (!), find a solution and follow up to see if he or she is happy with the way you are handling it. > > > > In doing so, you are on your way to creating more loyal customers, improving your product and delivering a better quality of customer service." > > > > ---------- > > > > "When a customer makes a complaint, he or she is voicing a concern in relation to your product or service. However, not all complaints are to be treated equally and there are several questions to ask yourself before you take action, including": > > > > Has this happened before? > > Have the complaints been recorded? > > How often does the same compliant arise? > > Is there a pattern to this complaint in how it was received? > > Has the same customer reported this previously? > > By answering these questions, you can take the necessary steps required to prevent them from happening again. > > "Nobody cares about complaints when they already have your money" "Nobody cares about your complaints when you're playing their game for free." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jugglemonkey.8741 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 > @"Eddy Law.2874" said: > > @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said: > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > @"phokus.8934" said: > > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > > > @"everyman.4375" said: > > > > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > > > > > @"Kilar.4791" said: > > > > > > > > > @"everyman.4375" said: > > > > > > > > > There's already another post saying the exact same thing and 2000 saying relatively the same thing so why do you feel the need to create another post ? > > > > > > > > > I think you should just ask a mesmer player to help you understand the class and do some duels, after less than an hour of playing you'll understand that mesmer is not just applying conditions over and over. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He made this post to cry, not to learn. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is not his job to learn. Once again; It is Anet job to finally take a stand that this ongoing epidemic has negatively impacted any remaining fun-factor in the game competitive scenery. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **Mesmer must hit rock bottom again. Except this time, in the right way** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Once you hit rock bottom, that's where you perfectly stand; That's your chance of restarting, but restarting the right way" > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not his job to learn but if he doesn't he has no right to complain. > > > > > > > > > > He including everyone else including myself in Guild Wars 2 6 years run, has the right to complain about Mesmer toxicity and its bad design > > > > > > > > > > Here is a 5 years old video of a duel between an elementalist vs a condi mesmer. You be the judge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You’re complaining about Revenant damage from hammer and wanting it nerfed. > > > > > > > > You’re clearly a subpar player who needs to look at his own game play mechanics and flat out, get better. > > > > > > > > Stop complaining in life and actually take the time to figure things out instead of having others do it for you. > > > > > > "Customer complaints are important" > > > > > > "And there’s no better way to collect direct feedback from your customers and improve your product or service. > > > > > > However, the way you handle a complaint is the difference between keeping a customer or losing one. So, the next time you receive a customer complaint, listen to what the customer has to say, apologize (!), find a solution and follow up to see if he or she is happy with the way you are handling it. > > > > > > In doing so, you are on your way to creating more loyal customers, improving your product and delivering a better quality of customer service." > > > > > > ---------- > > > > > > "When a customer makes a complaint, he or she is voicing a concern in relation to your product or service. However, not all complaints are to be treated equally and there are several questions to ask yourself before you take action, including": > > > > > > Has this happened before? > > > Have the complaints been recorded? > > > How often does the same compliant arise? > > > Is there a pattern to this complaint in how it was received? > > > Has the same customer reported this previously? > > > By answering these questions, you can take the necessary steps required to prevent them from happening again. > > > > "Nobody cares about complaints when they already have your money" > > "Nobody cares about your complaints when you're playing their game for free." I was more commenting on Burnfall's use of quotation marks. Quite honestly, while people are right to complain about condi mirage being too strong, they're complaining about the wrong thing still, so mirage mains are right to mock it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scar.1793 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 The pvp/wvw in this game itself is braindead tbh. Dunno why people waste their time here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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