Xxnecroxx.4039 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 > @"Dace.8173" said: > > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said: > > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said: > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > im speaking of pvp,wvw etc. Pve its decent cuz well your fighting npc’s lol > > > > > > > > not if you are playing end game content, you will be asked to leave T4 challenges/100's/nightmares, never allowed into raids unless you made the raid but then it will take longer to fill because people know necro is garbo in PVE, pretty much any endgame content is locked off from necros and you don't even feel powerful when you are roaming because of the 50 Epi nerfs and that pretty much every skill now requires boon corrupt to actually do damage but in PVE hardly if any PVE enemies have boons and even if they do they do not re-apply them to be reliable damag > > > > > > I wouldn't say never. It's already been shown in previous threads that Necromancers get taken along in end game PvE content. > > > > > > > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said: > > > > its so stupid that a class like necro is the weakest class in PVE when the game is 90% PVE, just have a harsher split between PVE necro and PVP/WVW necro and make necro powerful LIKE HOT release days, those were the golden times for necro and now after 1k nerfs necro is literally nearly unplayable in end game content which is the really only content worth doing and anything else you feel like you are hitting everything WITH A WET FEN NOODLE, when 90% of the game is PVE you got to make every class feel powerful in it no matter the balance. that is the reason I have not played GW2 for over a year I have invested to much into my necro to feel like kitten when I play him and not enjoy it > > > > > > Because skill split doesn't actually address most of the core issues. If skill split was an actual solution it would be working now. The fact that it isn't, highlights how skill splits won't net you the desired results. Also, no you do not make every class feel powerful no matter the balance. That creates more issues than it solves. At some point, player outcry over the ridiculousness created by that situation would find some folks hit with some fairly harsh nerfs. > > > > > > I'd also like to see where you get that 90% of the game number from. People make claims like that and rarely back it with a credible source that indicates the number should be taken seriously. > > > > > > > try joining pugs with necro most of the time you will be turned down, asked to swap, or just kicked outright, there is VERY FEW EXCEPTIONS, and skill split while it may not be the only thing needed for necro it would be very nice and help, and 90% of the game is PVE ok what 10 PVP maps, all small btw, with 4-5 WvW maps that are actually pretty decent while in PVE you got all of fractals, dungeons, 20+ maps, raids, etc, etc, etc as well as MANY MANY MANY more achievments through PVE then PVP and WvW COMBINED, when a expansion comes along whats most of it? o right PVE not PVP maps or WvW maps. and I said 90% because anyone with half a brain could easily see how much more substantial content in PVE is then there is in PvP/WvW but I guess I was wrong > > Then don't PUG. Folks act like the only way to do this content is to PUG. That simply is not true. The guy who runs my guild plays Necromancer almost exclusively in pretty much all the content. He doesn't care what other people think of Necromancer he does his thing anyway. If he can't find a PUG he asks in guild if anyone wants to go. Even then, it has been shown in previous threads that Necromancers can PUG. > > Also, skill split won't solve anything. Moreso since the problems are not 100% around the skills themselves but features of the profession. Also, unless you quote an actual source for that 90% I'm just going to disregard it and assume you made the number up to bolster a weak argument. None of what you've said to justify the number are qualities that would make PvE 90% of the game since people play WvW/PvP for more than just the number of maps. Ad hom attacks do not make your argument credible. Either quote a source for that number or I'm just going to say you made it up based on assumptions as opposed to provable facts. > > As for the half of a brain, I can Raid with my Reaper anytime I want sooooooo. > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"Jeknar.6184" said: > > > Just play Scourge... People always complain about necromancer, but everytime I'm in WvW or PvP there are scourges everywhere, and they are not exactly the easiest class to kill unless they are alone (but then again, necro never been a great duelist). > > > > > > In PvE tho, RIP Necro... > > > > I get ur point for sure just don’t wanna be a aoe spam bot lol not really a playstyle I enjoy and really only way to be effective with scourge,tho I do see the appeal I’d have for others > > You do realize that you've undermined your point. Someone offered you a solution and you ignored it even though that solution happens to work. That indicates that at least part of the problem is related to yourself and not just ANet. A lot of your complaints seemed to be around what Necromancer isn't as opposed to whether or not it can actually perform. > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said: > > > its so stupid that a class like necro is the weakest class in PVE when the game is 90% PVE, just have a harsher split between PVE necro and PVP/WVW necro and make necro powerful LIKE HOT release days, those were the golden times for necro and now after 1k nerfs necro is literally nearly unplayable in end game content which is the really only content worth doing and anything else you feel like you are hitting everything WITH A WET FEN NOODLE, when 90% of the game is PVE you got to make every class feel powerful in it no matter the balance. that is the reason I have not played GW2 for over a year I have invested to much into my necro to feel like kitten when I play him and not enjoy it > > > > I agree, I made this thread as a vent and a lot of great points were/have been made so far. I think it’s interesting how many players who I suspect play other professions mainly will post things to the effect that necro is fine as is etc,and will have a ranger,mesmer or guard avatar > > A person's avatar has no bearing on anything. That's just a silly thing to consider. If you can't make an argument without taking shots at a person's avatar then your argument has no substance. > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > I have and it’s ok to be blunt, I get ur point. I love the dark them,style and flavor of the skills,arenet did a great job as far as creativity and visually of the profession and that makes me want to play it and don’t get me wrong I do enjoy it and that’s why I bothered making this thread. I’m not saying necro sucks and is not worth playing it’s just frustrating to see the balance team give blocks,invulnerability,high damage and mobility out like candy and leave out classes like necro,thief and ele. Those are real advantages in a combat mmo and classes should be on a more even playing field. I kno perfect balance isn’t reachable but can be a lot closer than what it is now. I play other professions often as well I like boonbeast in wvw often and it’s fun for me in burst but it’s skills etc become boring to me very fast, not saying they are in general and I’d rather have fun than be effective. I’d be great to be both lol but my point is I have tried all classes and their elites save for holo and reaper and core interest me the most skill and visual wise compared to others, exept daredevil lol who doesn’t like martial arts staff concept? But it turned out to be a spam fest and thief shares same issues exept mobility as necro,no good sustain options and damage to compansate for how squishy it is compared to the powercreep that’s other professions have evolved into. > > Balance is closer than you think. Necromancer can be strong in PvP/WvW if you play to its strengths. That doesn't mean its perfect but very few professions allow for 100% playability the way you want to. If I want to go into PvP and do well I take Holo. If I play Scrapper then I am playing a non-meta Elite and that's on me. At least Necromancer has two work Elites for competitive modes. There are some professions that have only one. Even some that only have one build. > > Your analysis is also off. Elementalist has great defense. It lacks power. I don't know why you keep tossing Thief into the mix since Deadeye and Daredevil are very strong contenders. They are highly mobile. If they had more blocks they would be far too strong as instead of having straight up blocks and invulnerability they have stealth and the ability to simply disappear. They trade in sustainability for higher mobility and alternate defense tactics. You seem to be lumping in professions without giving proper care to whether they support or detract from your argument or putting their deficiencies into proper context. I would also say they don't give those things out like candy. If they did some of those professions you left off your list would be doing better than they currently are. > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > Lol yeah cuz non deadeye thieves hit so hard these days cmon, u literally have to chip away at other classes and they their blocks and invulnerability skills than retreat by time uve taken but of health of them cuz two landed hits and ur dead, my gues is uve got ganked by deadeyes and are salty cuz no way anyone who knows thief or daredevil would say their damage is great compaired to their sustain > > Um, yeah. That's the playstyle. Thief isn't meant to just getting into the mix of things and do awesome. It's a roamer and sometimes +1. You seem to be arguing that all the professions play the same as you have repeatedly ignored how the profession actually works and why it does well in favor of making the false claim that something is wrong because they lack a list of traits you feel they should have. Well played Thieves/Daredevils/Deadeye get the job done. They may not do it in the fashion you want it to but that is due to balance reasons. You seem to be using balance as a catch all term for the professions all having the same basic abilities and that's not what balance is. > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > Lol yeah cuz non deadeye thieves hit so hard these days cmon, u literally have to chip away at other classes and they their blocks and invulnerability skills than retreat by time uve taken but of health of them cuz two landed hits and ur dead, my gues is uve got ganked by deadeyes and are salty cuz no way anyone who knows thief or daredevil would say their damage is great compaired to their sustain > > > > > > Non de thieves can oneshot just as easy. > > > But since you know so much about thieves I'm sure you know this. > > > > > > Who cares if their sustain damage is not that good (still miles ahead of some other professions) if you can press 2 skills and instagib from stealth? > > > > Im am not a professional by any stretch but I’ve spent a lot of hrs on thief but I’ve never been able to one shot on a core or daredevil and I don’t use stealth invisibility skills which is maybe why my damage is lower. With that said if what u say is true than why do on numerous occasions well known top thief players( not DE) like sindrener etc avoid most 1v1 due to knowing the class limitations and use it’s strenths to decap and +1 enemies that are distracted and with damage already taken. If the have this magical damage u speak of why are the not great dueler like thier discription and universally known to be at a disadvantage in a 1v1 and have to use cheap mechanics like fight resets and +1. Or are u such a high skill level with thief that without using cheap back stab mechanics thru invisibility to magically one shot and produce higher damage than rest of us? Maybe less players would resort to using such a cheesy mechanic as perma stealth DE if the thief’s other specs weren’t nurfed so hard over the years due to salty whiners who got beat by skilled thieves and couldn’t handle it and maybe thieves wouldn’t get their other specs gutted due to the addition of the cheese DE spec and it’s balancing attempts by arenet > > Ok, now I'm convinced, you don't get what balance is. Just because you don't use invisibility doesn't mean there is something wrong with Thief. That means there is something wrong with you. If you aren't doing well with the profession then it's because you are not using all the tools given to you to do well with it. Instead of learning how to play Thief you instead claim its not balanced because it lacks the skills you need to survive to play the way you want to play. That is not balance, that is player preference. Balance is not everything having high damage and high sustain. Balance is not everyone being a great dueler. All of your balance arguments amount to "why doesn't everything play the same way?" > > You know why top Thieves stick to decape and +1? Because that's what Thief is built around. That's the game play. Thief was given a lot of tools to be able to bounce around the map. They leave the dueling to other people. You seem to not get PvP in this game. This isn't a game where everyone is good at everything. It's a team game in which different professions are given different strengths in order to make the team succeed. > > You clearly do not understand Thief game play and all your balance arguments revolve around you not being able to do something as opposed to whether or not what you are using was actually meant to do it in the first place. If you are losing with Thief that's because you are clearly not good with it. Everything you've said in this post indicates as much. > > Necromancer does have balance issues. You, sadly, are no where near any of them. ahh yes don't pug and just have guilds run the raid when you want them to that is as easy as JUSTWIN 4HEAD ITS THAT EZ you don't even know how stupid that sounds. also it is RARE at best that someone will accept a necro into a PUG because of their crap damage output and pretty much offering nothing to the table. even more so after this update more then likely also when you do play necro in raids you feel like you are hitting everything with a wet noodle unless you are a power reaper then you are hitting them with a dried out noodle. that is unless the bosses have a crap ton of boons to corrupt.... o wait they usually don't so yes you "CAN" play necro in raids but you would be better off with literally any other class in that slot. ok lets compare the ONLY THING you can do in WvW maps is capture areas and kill enemy invaders, kill a few veteran bosses and recruit some mercenaries as events. now lets look at PVE events, killing a multitude of bosses many of them unique, there is also chain events, meta events, story, specializations, collections, also fractals, raids, map completion that is actually meaningful unlike WvW map completion, WvW does not change it is the same old same old capture areas where you can do many different things in PVE and that changes PER MAP. that is how 90% of the content IS PVE maps is a huge part of that because they can only put SO MUCH CONTENT IN MAPS, also again it shows how when a expansion comes out there is no PVP maps or WvW maps but PVE MAPS so If you can't clearly see that pretty much 90% of the game is PVE then you are blind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > U were man I was referring to wvw without using invisibility, I have no issues with people that do I just feel cheap using invisibility lol Are you aware that your "excuse" here is like saying: "this profession is weak, I can't kill or survive anything by only using auto attacks". Stealth attacks are part of the thief kit and they are an essential part, gamewide, of the thief burst of damage. That said, if you find it unfair to stalk stealthily you can still: - Basilic venom, assassin signet - steal - enter stealth via various way - backstab If you are in a glass canon build and do that, your foe will end up in dire state if not downed directly. That's thiefs basics, you don't even need to main thief to know that, all players should know this much at this point of the game "life". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said: > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said: > > > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > > > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said: > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > im speaking of pvp,wvw etc. Pve its decent cuz well your fighting npc’s lol > > > > > > > > > > not if you are playing end game content, you will be asked to leave T4 challenges/100's/nightmares, never allowed into raids unless you made the raid but then it will take longer to fill because people know necro is garbo in PVE, pretty much any endgame content is locked off from necros and you don't even feel powerful when you are roaming because of the 50 Epi nerfs and that pretty much every skill now requires boon corrupt to actually do damage but in PVE hardly if any PVE enemies have boons and even if they do they do not re-apply them to be reliable damag > > > > > > > > I wouldn't say never. It's already been shown in previous threads that Necromancers get taken along in end game PvE content. > > > > > > > > > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said: > > > > > its so stupid that a class like necro is the weakest class in PVE when the game is 90% PVE, just have a harsher split between PVE necro and PVP/WVW necro and make necro powerful LIKE HOT release days, those were the golden times for necro and now after 1k nerfs necro is literally nearly unplayable in end game content which is the really only content worth doing and anything else you feel like you are hitting everything WITH A WET FEN NOODLE, when 90% of the game is PVE you got to make every class feel powerful in it no matter the balance. that is the reason I have not played GW2 for over a year I have invested to much into my necro to feel like kitten when I play him and not enjoy it > > > > > > > > Because skill split doesn't actually address most of the core issues. If skill split was an actual solution it would be working now. The fact that it isn't, highlights how skill splits won't net you the desired results. Also, no you do not make every class feel powerful no matter the balance. That creates more issues than it solves. At some point, player outcry over the ridiculousness created by that situation would find some folks hit with some fairly harsh nerfs. > > > > > > > > I'd also like to see where you get that 90% of the game number from. People make claims like that and rarely back it with a credible source that indicates the number should be taken seriously. > > > > > > > > > > try joining pugs with necro most of the time you will be turned down, asked to swap, or just kicked outright, there is VERY FEW EXCEPTIONS, and skill split while it may not be the only thing needed for necro it would be very nice and help, and 90% of the game is PVE ok what 10 PVP maps, all small btw, with 4-5 WvW maps that are actually pretty decent while in PVE you got all of fractals, dungeons, 20+ maps, raids, etc, etc, etc as well as MANY MANY MANY more achievments through PVE then PVP and WvW COMBINED, when a expansion comes along whats most of it? o right PVE not PVP maps or WvW maps. and I said 90% because anyone with half a brain could easily see how much more substantial content in PVE is then there is in PvP/WvW but I guess I was wrong > > > > Then don't PUG. Folks act like the only way to do this content is to PUG. That simply is not true. The guy who runs my guild plays Necromancer almost exclusively in pretty much all the content. He doesn't care what other people think of Necromancer he does his thing anyway. If he can't find a PUG he asks in guild if anyone wants to go. Even then, it has been shown in previous threads that Necromancers can PUG. > > > > Also, skill split won't solve anything. Moreso since the problems are not 100% around the skills themselves but features of the profession. Also, unless you quote an actual source for that 90% I'm just going to disregard it and assume you made the number up to bolster a weak argument. None of what you've said to justify the number are qualities that would make PvE 90% of the game since people play WvW/PvP for more than just the number of maps. Ad hom attacks do not make your argument credible. Either quote a source for that number or I'm just going to say you made it up based on assumptions as opposed to provable facts. > > > > As for the half of a brain, I can Raid with my Reaper anytime I want sooooooo. > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > @"Jeknar.6184" said: > > > > Just play Scourge... People always complain about necromancer, but everytime I'm in WvW or PvP there are scourges everywhere, and they are not exactly the easiest class to kill unless they are alone (but then again, necro never been a great duelist). > > > > > > > > In PvE tho, RIP Necro... > > > > > > I get ur point for sure just don’t wanna be a aoe spam bot lol not really a playstyle I enjoy and really only way to be effective with scourge,tho I do see the appeal I’d have for others > > > > You do realize that you've undermined your point. Someone offered you a solution and you ignored it even though that solution happens to work. That indicates that at least part of the problem is related to yourself and not just ANet. A lot of your complaints seemed to be around what Necromancer isn't as opposed to whether or not it can actually perform. > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said: > > > > its so stupid that a class like necro is the weakest class in PVE when the game is 90% PVE, just have a harsher split between PVE necro and PVP/WVW necro and make necro powerful LIKE HOT release days, those were the golden times for necro and now after 1k nerfs necro is literally nearly unplayable in end game content which is the really only content worth doing and anything else you feel like you are hitting everything WITH A WET FEN NOODLE, when 90% of the game is PVE you got to make every class feel powerful in it no matter the balance. that is the reason I have not played GW2 for over a year I have invested to much into my necro to feel like kitten when I play him and not enjoy it > > > > > > I agree, I made this thread as a vent and a lot of great points were/have been made so far. I think it’s interesting how many players who I suspect play other professions mainly will post things to the effect that necro is fine as is etc,and will have a ranger,mesmer or guard avatar > > > > A person's avatar has no bearing on anything. That's just a silly thing to consider. If you can't make an argument without taking shots at a person's avatar then your argument has no substance. > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > I have and it’s ok to be blunt, I get ur point. I love the dark them,style and flavor of the skills,arenet did a great job as far as creativity and visually of the profession and that makes me want to play it and don’t get me wrong I do enjoy it and that’s why I bothered making this thread. I’m not saying necro sucks and is not worth playing it’s just frustrating to see the balance team give blocks,invulnerability,high damage and mobility out like candy and leave out classes like necro,thief and ele. Those are real advantages in a combat mmo and classes should be on a more even playing field. I kno perfect balance isn’t reachable but can be a lot closer than what it is now. I play other professions often as well I like boonbeast in wvw often and it’s fun for me in burst but it’s skills etc become boring to me very fast, not saying they are in general and I’d rather have fun than be effective. I’d be great to be both lol but my point is I have tried all classes and their elites save for holo and reaper and core interest me the most skill and visual wise compared to others, exept daredevil lol who doesn’t like martial arts staff concept? But it turned out to be a spam fest and thief shares same issues exept mobility as necro,no good sustain options and damage to compansate for how squishy it is compared to the powercreep that’s other professions have evolved into. > > > > Balance is closer than you think. Necromancer can be strong in PvP/WvW if you play to its strengths. That doesn't mean its perfect but very few professions allow for 100% playability the way you want to. If I want to go into PvP and do well I take Holo. If I play Scrapper then I am playing a non-meta Elite and that's on me. At least Necromancer has two work Elites for competitive modes. There are some professions that have only one. Even some that only have one build. > > > > Your analysis is also off. Elementalist has great defense. It lacks power. I don't know why you keep tossing Thief into the mix since Deadeye and Daredevil are very strong contenders. They are highly mobile. If they had more blocks they would be far too strong as instead of having straight up blocks and invulnerability they have stealth and the ability to simply disappear. They trade in sustainability for higher mobility and alternate defense tactics. You seem to be lumping in professions without giving proper care to whether they support or detract from your argument or putting their deficiencies into proper context. I would also say they don't give those things out like candy. If they did some of those professions you left off your list would be doing better than they currently are. > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > Lol yeah cuz non deadeye thieves hit so hard these days cmon, u literally have to chip away at other classes and they their blocks and invulnerability skills than retreat by time uve taken but of health of them cuz two landed hits and ur dead, my gues is uve got ganked by deadeyes and are salty cuz no way anyone who knows thief or daredevil would say their damage is great compaired to their sustain > > > > Um, yeah. That's the playstyle. Thief isn't meant to just getting into the mix of things and do awesome. It's a roamer and sometimes +1. You seem to be arguing that all the professions play the same as you have repeatedly ignored how the profession actually works and why it does well in favor of making the false claim that something is wrong because they lack a list of traits you feel they should have. Well played Thieves/Daredevils/Deadeye get the job done. They may not do it in the fashion you want it to but that is due to balance reasons. You seem to be using balance as a catch all term for the professions all having the same basic abilities and that's not what balance is. > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > Lol yeah cuz non deadeye thieves hit so hard these days cmon, u literally have to chip away at other classes and they their blocks and invulnerability skills than retreat by time uve taken but of health of them cuz two landed hits and ur dead, my gues is uve got ganked by deadeyes and are salty cuz no way anyone who knows thief or daredevil would say their damage is great compaired to their sustain > > > > > > > > Non de thieves can oneshot just as easy. > > > > But since you know so much about thieves I'm sure you know this. > > > > > > > > Who cares if their sustain damage is not that good (still miles ahead of some other professions) if you can press 2 skills and instagib from stealth? > > > > > > Im am not a professional by any stretch but I’ve spent a lot of hrs on thief but I’ve never been able to one shot on a core or daredevil and I don’t use stealth invisibility skills which is maybe why my damage is lower. With that said if what u say is true than why do on numerous occasions well known top thief players( not DE) like sindrener etc avoid most 1v1 due to knowing the class limitations and use it’s strenths to decap and +1 enemies that are distracted and with damage already taken. If the have this magical damage u speak of why are the not great dueler like thier discription and universally known to be at a disadvantage in a 1v1 and have to use cheap mechanics like fight resets and +1. Or are u such a high skill level with thief that without using cheap back stab mechanics thru invisibility to magically one shot and produce higher damage than rest of us? Maybe less players would resort to using such a cheesy mechanic as perma stealth DE if the thief’s other specs weren’t nurfed so hard over the years due to salty whiners who got beat by skilled thieves and couldn’t handle it and maybe thieves wouldn’t get their other specs gutted due to the addition of the cheese DE spec and it’s balancing attempts by arenet > > > > Ok, now I'm convinced, you don't get what balance is. Just because you don't use invisibility doesn't mean there is something wrong with Thief. That means there is something wrong with you. If you aren't doing well with the profession then it's because you are not using all the tools given to you to do well with it. Instead of learning how to play Thief you instead claim its not balanced because it lacks the skills you need to survive to play the way you want to play. That is not balance, that is player preference. Balance is not everything having high damage and high sustain. Balance is not everyone being a great dueler. All of your balance arguments amount to "why doesn't everything play the same way?" > > > > You know why top Thieves stick to decape and +1? Because that's what Thief is built around. That's the game play. Thief was given a lot of tools to be able to bounce around the map. They leave the dueling to other people. You seem to not get PvP in this game. This isn't a game where everyone is good at everything. It's a team game in which different professions are given different strengths in order to make the team succeed. > > > > You clearly do not understand Thief game play and all your balance arguments revolve around you not being able to do something as opposed to whether or not what you are using was actually meant to do it in the first place. If you are losing with Thief that's because you are clearly not good with it. Everything you've said in this post indicates as much. > > > > Necromancer does have balance issues. You, sadly, are no where near any of them. > > > ahh yes don't pug and just have guilds run the raid when you want them to that is as easy as JUSTWIN 4HEAD ITS THAT EZ you don't even know how stupid that sounds. also it is RARE at best that someone will accept a necro into a PUG because of their kitten damage output and pretty much offering nothing to the table. even more so after this update more then likely also when you do play necro in raids you feel like you are hitting everything with a wet noodle unless you are a power reaper then you are hitting them with a dried out noodle. that is unless the bosses have a kitten ton of boons to corrupt.... o wait they usually don't so yes you "CAN" play necro in raids but you would be better off with literally any other class in that slot. ok lets compare the ONLY THING you can do in WvW maps is capture areas and kill enemy invaders, kill a few veteran bosses and recruit some mercenaries as events. now lets look at PVE events, killing a multitude of bosses many of them unique, there is also chain events, meta events, story, specializations, collections, also fractals, raids, map completion that is actually meaningful unlike WvW map completion, WvW does not change it is the same old same old capture areas where you can do many different things in PVE and that changes PER MAP. that is how 90% of the content IS PVE maps is a huge part of that because they can only put SO MUCH CONTENT IN MAPS, also again it shows how when a expansion comes out there is no PVP maps or WvW maps but PVE MAPS so If you can't clearly see that pretty much 90% of the game is PVE then you are blind All I have to say is look at raidar.Necromancers are strong on some bosses, but not everyone dominates the same bosses. If you want to play reaper, learn to join a guild and also: The kind of burst is different for classes too.You have large targets small targets, and each class is strong in different things. The reason you want to join a guild, is because puggists can be very elitists, and wont give you a chance.A guild is more likely to give you a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dace.8173 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > im speaking of pvp,wvw etc. Pve its decent cuz well your fighting npc’s lol > > > > > > not if you are playing end game content, you will be asked to leave T4 challenges/100's/nightmares, never allowed into raids unless you made the raid but then it will take longer to fill because people know necro is garbo in PVE, pretty much any endgame content is locked off from necros and you don't even feel powerful when you are roaming because of the 50 Epi nerfs and that pretty much every skill now requires boon corrupt to actually do damage but in PVE hardly if any PVE enemies have boons and even if they do they do not re-apply them to be reliable damag > > > > I wouldn't say never. It's already been shown in previous threads that Necromancers get taken along in end game PvE content. > > > > > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said: > > > its so stupid that a class like necro is the weakest class in PVE when the game is 90% PVE, just have a harsher split between PVE necro and PVP/WVW necro and make necro powerful LIKE HOT release days, those were the golden times for necro and now after 1k nerfs necro is literally nearly unplayable in end game content which is the really only content worth doing and anything else you feel like you are hitting everything WITH A WET FEN NOODLE, when 90% of the game is PVE you got to make every class feel powerful in it no matter the balance. that is the reason I have not played GW2 for over a year I have invested to much into my necro to feel like kitten when I play him and not enjoy it > > > > Because skill split doesn't actually address most of the core issues. If skill split was an actual solution it would be working now. The fact that it isn't, highlights how skill splits won't net you the desired results. Also, no you do not make every class feel powerful no matter the balance. That creates more issues than it solves. At some point, player outcry over the ridiculousness created by that situation would find some folks hit with some fairly harsh nerfs. > > I don't agree here. They have the possibility to use skillsplit, yet they are doing it very poorly. That's why skillsplit doesn't work. > > For example they could have chosen to nerf proc-traits in pvp-modes only, by removing the ability to crit. Yet they chose to nerf them in pve as well. > skillsplit?- No, even though these were clearly only PvP related nerds, which also lowered pve DPS. > > > > I'd also like to see where you get that 90% of the game number from. People make claims like that and rarely back it with a credible source that indicates the number should be taken seriously. > > > > It could fix some but I don't think it will fix most of what plagues Necromancer. One of the reasons they likely don't skill split harder is that you don't want to create to large of a difference between the PvE and PvP/WvW experince. You want them to play relatively the same. It's why there is so much bleed over. > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said: > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said: > > > > @"Dace.8173" said: > > > > > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said: > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > im speaking of pvp,wvw etc. Pve its decent cuz well your fighting npc’s lol > > > > > > > > > > not if you are playing end game content, you will be asked to leave T4 challenges/100's/nightmares, never allowed into raids unless you made the raid but then it will take longer to fill because people know necro is garbo in PVE, pretty much any endgame content is locked off from necros and you don't even feel powerful when you are roaming because of the 50 Epi nerfs and that pretty much every skill now requires boon corrupt to actually do damage but in PVE hardly if any PVE enemies have boons and even if they do they do not re-apply them to be reliable damag > > > > > > > > I wouldn't say never. It's already been shown in previous threads that Necromancers get taken along in end game PvE content. > > > > > > > > > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said: > > > > > its so stupid that a class like necro is the weakest class in PVE when the game is 90% PVE, just have a harsher split between PVE necro and PVP/WVW necro and make necro powerful LIKE HOT release days, those were the golden times for necro and now after 1k nerfs necro is literally nearly unplayable in end game content which is the really only content worth doing and anything else you feel like you are hitting everything WITH A WET FEN NOODLE, when 90% of the game is PVE you got to make every class feel powerful in it no matter the balance. that is the reason I have not played GW2 for over a year I have invested to much into my necro to feel like kitten when I play him and not enjoy it > > > > > > > > Because skill split doesn't actually address most of the core issues. If skill split was an actual solution it would be working now. The fact that it isn't, highlights how skill splits won't net you the desired results. Also, no you do not make every class feel powerful no matter the balance. That creates more issues than it solves. At some point, player outcry over the ridiculousness created by that situation would find some folks hit with some fairly harsh nerfs. > > > > > > > > I'd also like to see where you get that 90% of the game number from. People make claims like that and rarely back it with a credible source that indicates the number should be taken seriously. > > > > > > > > > > try joining pugs with necro most of the time you will be turned down, asked to swap, or just kicked outright, there is VERY FEW EXCEPTIONS, and skill split while it may not be the only thing needed for necro it would be very nice and help, and 90% of the game is PVE ok what 10 PVP maps, all small btw, with 4-5 WvW maps that are actually pretty decent while in PVE you got all of fractals, dungeons, 20+ maps, raids, etc, etc, etc as well as MANY MANY MANY more achievments through PVE then PVP and WvW COMBINED, when a expansion comes along whats most of it? o right PVE not PVP maps or WvW maps. and I said 90% because anyone with half a brain could easily see how much more substantial content in PVE is then there is in PvP/WvW but I guess I was wrong > > > > Then don't PUG. Folks act like the only way to do this content is to PUG. That simply is not true. The guy who runs my guild plays Necromancer almost exclusively in pretty much all the content. He doesn't care what other people think of Necromancer he does his thing anyway. If he can't find a PUG he asks in guild if anyone wants to go. Even then, it has been shown in previous threads that Necromancers can PUG. > > > > Also, skill split won't solve anything. Moreso since the problems are not 100% around the skills themselves but features of the profession. Also, unless you quote an actual source for that 90% I'm just going to disregard it and assume you made the number up to bolster a weak argument. None of what you've said to justify the number are qualities that would make PvE 90% of the game since people play WvW/PvP for more than just the number of maps. Ad hom attacks do not make your argument credible. Either quote a source for that number or I'm just going to say you made it up based on assumptions as opposed to provable facts. > > > > As for the half of a brain, I can Raid with my Reaper anytime I want sooooooo. > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > @"Jeknar.6184" said: > > > > Just play Scourge... People always complain about necromancer, but everytime I'm in WvW or PvP there are scourges everywhere, and they are not exactly the easiest class to kill unless they are alone (but then again, necro never been a great duelist). > > > > > > > > In PvE tho, RIP Necro... > > > > > > I get ur point for sure just don’t wanna be a aoe spam bot lol not really a playstyle I enjoy and really only way to be effective with scourge,tho I do see the appeal I’d have for others > > > > You do realize that you've undermined your point. Someone offered you a solution and you ignored it even though that solution happens to work. That indicates that at least part of the problem is related to yourself and not just ANet. A lot of your complaints seemed to be around what Necromancer isn't as opposed to whether or not it can actually perform. > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said: > > > > its so stupid that a class like necro is the weakest class in PVE when the game is 90% PVE, just have a harsher split between PVE necro and PVP/WVW necro and make necro powerful LIKE HOT release days, those were the golden times for necro and now after 1k nerfs necro is literally nearly unplayable in end game content which is the really only content worth doing and anything else you feel like you are hitting everything WITH A WET FEN NOODLE, when 90% of the game is PVE you got to make every class feel powerful in it no matter the balance. that is the reason I have not played GW2 for over a year I have invested to much into my necro to feel like kitten when I play him and not enjoy it > > > > > > I agree, I made this thread as a vent and a lot of great points were/have been made so far. I think it’s interesting how many players who I suspect play other professions mainly will post things to the effect that necro is fine as is etc,and will have a ranger,mesmer or guard avatar > > > > A person's avatar has no bearing on anything. That's just a silly thing to consider. If you can't make an argument without taking shots at a person's avatar then your argument has no substance. > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > I have and it’s ok to be blunt, I get ur point. I love the dark them,style and flavor of the skills,arenet did a great job as far as creativity and visually of the profession and that makes me want to play it and don’t get me wrong I do enjoy it and that’s why I bothered making this thread. I’m not saying necro sucks and is not worth playing it’s just frustrating to see the balance team give blocks,invulnerability,high damage and mobility out like candy and leave out classes like necro,thief and ele. Those are real advantages in a combat mmo and classes should be on a more even playing field. I kno perfect balance isn’t reachable but can be a lot closer than what it is now. I play other professions often as well I like boonbeast in wvw often and it’s fun for me in burst but it’s skills etc become boring to me very fast, not saying they are in general and I’d rather have fun than be effective. I’d be great to be both lol but my point is I have tried all classes and their elites save for holo and reaper and core interest me the most skill and visual wise compared to others, exept daredevil lol who doesn’t like martial arts staff concept? But it turned out to be a spam fest and thief shares same issues exept mobility as necro,no good sustain options and damage to compansate for how squishy it is compared to the powercreep that’s other professions have evolved into. > > > > Balance is closer than you think. Necromancer can be strong in PvP/WvW if you play to its strengths. That doesn't mean its perfect but very few professions allow for 100% playability the way you want to. If I want to go into PvP and do well I take Holo. If I play Scrapper then I am playing a non-meta Elite and that's on me. At least Necromancer has two work Elites for competitive modes. There are some professions that have only one. Even some that only have one build. > > > > Your analysis is also off. Elementalist has great defense. It lacks power. I don't know why you keep tossing Thief into the mix since Deadeye and Daredevil are very strong contenders. They are highly mobile. If they had more blocks they would be far too strong as instead of having straight up blocks and invulnerability they have stealth and the ability to simply disappear. They trade in sustainability for higher mobility and alternate defense tactics. You seem to be lumping in professions without giving proper care to whether they support or detract from your argument or putting their deficiencies into proper context. I would also say they don't give those things out like candy. If they did some of those professions you left off your list would be doing better than they currently are. > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > Lol yeah cuz non deadeye thieves hit so hard these days cmon, u literally have to chip away at other classes and they their blocks and invulnerability skills than retreat by time uve taken but of health of them cuz two landed hits and ur dead, my gues is uve got ganked by deadeyes and are salty cuz no way anyone who knows thief or daredevil would say their damage is great compaired to their sustain > > > > Um, yeah. That's the playstyle. Thief isn't meant to just getting into the mix of things and do awesome. It's a roamer and sometimes +1. You seem to be arguing that all the professions play the same as you have repeatedly ignored how the profession actually works and why it does well in favor of making the false claim that something is wrong because they lack a list of traits you feel they should have. Well played Thieves/Daredevils/Deadeye get the job done. They may not do it in the fashion you want it to but that is due to balance reasons. You seem to be using balance as a catch all term for the professions all having the same basic abilities and that's not what balance is. > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > Lol yeah cuz non deadeye thieves hit so hard these days cmon, u literally have to chip away at other classes and they their blocks and invulnerability skills than retreat by time uve taken but of health of them cuz two landed hits and ur dead, my gues is uve got ganked by deadeyes and are salty cuz no way anyone who knows thief or daredevil would say their damage is great compaired to their sustain > > > > > > > > Non de thieves can oneshot just as easy. > > > > But since you know so much about thieves I'm sure you know this. > > > > > > > > Who cares if their sustain damage is not that good (still miles ahead of some other professions) if you can press 2 skills and instagib from stealth? > > > > > > Im am not a professional by any stretch but I’ve spent a lot of hrs on thief but I’ve never been able to one shot on a core or daredevil and I don’t use stealth invisibility skills which is maybe why my damage is lower. With that said if what u say is true than why do on numerous occasions well known top thief players( not DE) like sindrener etc avoid most 1v1 due to knowing the class limitations and use it’s strenths to decap and +1 enemies that are distracted and with damage already taken. If the have this magical damage u speak of why are the not great dueler like thier discription and universally known to be at a disadvantage in a 1v1 and have to use cheap mechanics like fight resets and +1. Or are u such a high skill level with thief that without using cheap back stab mechanics thru invisibility to magically one shot and produce higher damage than rest of us? Maybe less players would resort to using such a cheesy mechanic as perma stealth DE if the thief’s other specs weren’t nurfed so hard over the years due to salty whiners who got beat by skilled thieves and couldn’t handle it and maybe thieves wouldn’t get their other specs gutted due to the addition of the cheese DE spec and it’s balancing attempts by arenet > > > > Ok, now I'm convinced, you don't get what balance is. Just because you don't use invisibility doesn't mean there is something wrong with Thief. That means there is something wrong with you. If you aren't doing well with the profession then it's because you are not using all the tools given to you to do well with it. Instead of learning how to play Thief you instead claim its not balanced because it lacks the skills you need to survive to play the way you want to play. That is not balance, that is player preference. Balance is not everything having high damage and high sustain. Balance is not everyone being a great dueler. All of your balance arguments amount to "why doesn't everything play the same way?" > > > > You know why top Thieves stick to decape and +1? Because that's what Thief is built around. That's the game play. Thief was given a lot of tools to be able to bounce around the map. They leave the dueling to other people. You seem to not get PvP in this game. This isn't a game where everyone is good at everything. It's a team game in which different professions are given different strengths in order to make the team succeed. > > > > You clearly do not understand Thief game play and all your balance arguments revolve around you not being able to do something as opposed to whether or not what you are using was actually meant to do it in the first place. If you are losing with Thief that's because you are clearly not good with it. Everything you've said in this post indicates as much. > > > > Necromancer does have balance issues. You, sadly, are no where near any of them. > > > ahh yes don't pug and just have guilds run the raid when you want them to that is as easy as JUSTWIN 4HEAD ITS THAT EZ you don't even know how stupid that sounds. also it is RARE at best that someone will accept a necro into a PUG because of their kitten damage output and pretty much offering nothing to the table. even more so after this update more then likely also when you do play necro in raids you feel like you are hitting everything with a wet noodle unless you are a power reaper then you are hitting them with a dried out noodle. that is unless the bosses have a kitten ton of boons to corrupt.... o wait they usually don't so yes you "CAN" play necro in raids but you would be better off with literally any other class in that slot. ok lets compare the ONLY THING you can do in WvW maps is capture areas and kill enemy invaders, kill a few veteran bosses and recruit some mercenaries as events. now lets look at PVE events, killing a multitude of bosses many of them unique, there is also chain events, meta events, story, specializations, collections, also fractals, raids, map completion that is actually meaningful unlike WvW map completion, WvW does not change it is the same old same old capture areas where you can do many different things in PVE and that changes PER MAP. that is how 90% of the content IS PVE maps is a huge part of that because they can only put SO MUCH CONTENT IN MAPS, also again it shows how when a expansion comes out there is no PVP maps or WvW maps but PVE MAPS so If you can't clearly see that pretty much 90% of the game is PVE then you are blind Dude, I'm in 5 guilds. It was super easy for me to get into those 5 guilds. I always have folks to do stuff with. Tonight I was working on some grunt work for one of the Legendaries I'm after. It required jump puzzles. I suck at jump puzzles. One of the folks in one of the guilds I'm in came to help out. I'd of never completed that jump puzzle without that help. This is a social game. I see folks advertising their guild all the time. It is easy to find a guild if you want to be in one. If you think suggesting that instead of PUGing you should join a guild is stupid then maybe that's why you don't get to enjoy the game the way you want to. I have guild folks to WvW with, PvP with, Raid with, Fractals ...... whatever I need. Like I said, I can take my Reaper into a Raid whenever I want. You can call it stupid all day but while you're complaining that you can't use your Necromancer with PUGs I'm busy using my Necromancer with my guildmates. If you want to say its rare that people take a Necromancer then that's on you. Folks have shown in other threads that it isn't You don't have to PUG. If you choose to PUG and can't find folks to play with then that's also on you. Since you refuse to actually cite a source for your magical 90% number I'm basically considering it a made up figure to bolster your fairly weak argument. More so since you seem to be discussing things sans any true insight into why people do the things they do, i.e. no true understanding into what drives WvW/PvP/PVE (also if you are going to argue WvW doesn't change then you might as well argue that Raiding and Fractals don't change all that much either. It's not like they pump in a new one for people to do every week). Here's a clue though, counting maps doesn't actually tell you much about how the content is actually being used. Also, ad hom attacks really don't make your 90% even truer. You're not going to get anywhere with that 90% number as you can't actually factual show it to be true. You are using extremely bad inference (and ad homs) in order to make that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimon.7840 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Btw, can anyone test this build in higher PvP ranks?: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRBLbhG2IJNUTjt2gPNwfjDohS2ABwyOThauEotQPEqA-jphIQBZY/BFeQA23DAQelBAwJAgbHBAA I came up with it last Saturday, and me and a friend had fun to duoqueue with it. Against not so good players we could easily defend points alone 1v2 The sustain is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dace.8173 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 > @"Nimon.7840" said: > Btw, can anyone test this build in higher PvP ranks?: > > http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRBLbhG2IJNUTjt2gPNwfjDohS2ABwyOThauEotQPEqA-jphIQBZY/BFeQA23DAQelBAwJAgbHBAA > > I came up with it last Saturday, and me and a friend had fun to duoqueue with it. > > Against not so good players we could easily defend points alone 1v2 > > The sustain is ridiculous. I'll give it a try this week and see how it performs. I've been meaning to swap into my Reaper this week anyway, as I'm long overdo on posting his Reaper look to GW2 Style and now that I have a winter break I'm getting caught up (I've created 12 new looks for various builds since October!!!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 > @"Nimon.7840" said: > Btw, can anyone test this build in higher PvP ranks?: > > http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRBLbhG2IJNUTjt2gPNwfjDohS2ABwyOThauEotQPEqA-jphIQBZY/BFeQA23DAQelBAwJAgbHBAA > > I came up with it last Saturday, and me and a friend had fun to duoqueue with it. > > Against not so good players we could easily defend points alone 1v2 > > The sustain is ridiculous. Played for a while. I am going to add this to the builds I play. This makes 3 core builds I am fond of along with Core Signets, Core Cele. VP and rune of earth stack multiplicativly which is interesting. You get a lot of healing. Did you every try Sanc Runes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithranArkanere.8957 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 The problem is the pace. Combat in a game with these many skills should have the pace of a waltz, or Queen's "We Will Rock You", and instead it has become like bebop jazz. No. Like Flight of the bumblebee. Waaay too many skills that can be used while another skill is being used. Waaay too many actions that can be performed during a defensive stance, evade or block. Things needs to slow down. A LOT. I'm talking aftercast on way more things, and overall 1/3 of the damage and 1/5 of the healing speeds we are seeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dace.8173 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 > @"MithranArkanere.8957" said: > The problem is the pace. > > Combat in a game with these many skills should have the pace of a waltz, or Queen's "We Will Rock You", and instead it has become like bebop jazz. No. Like Flight of the bumblebee. > > Waaay too many skills that can be used while another skill is being used. Waaay too many actions that can be performed during a defensive stance, evade or block. > > Things needs to slow down. A LOT. I'm talking aftercast on way more things, and overall 1/3 of the damage and 1/5 of the healing speeds we are seeing. I really don't think pacing is the problem since a lot of the issue that hold Necromancer back have been present for six years. So well before we got to bebop jazz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimon.7840 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > Btw, can anyone test this build in higher PvP ranks?: > > > > http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRBLbhG2IJNUTjt2gPNwfjDohS2ABwyOThauEotQPEqA-jphIQBZY/BFeQA23DAQelBAwJAgbHBAA > > > > I came up with it last Saturday, and me and a friend had fun to duoqueue with it. > > > > Against not so good players we could easily defend points alone 1v2 > > > > The sustain is ridiculous. > > Played for a while. I am going to add this to the builds I play. This makes 3 core builds I am fond of along with Core Signets, Core Cele. > VP and rune of earth stack multiplicativly which is interesting. You get a lot of healing. > > Did you every try Sanc Runes? Didn't try sanctuary runes. I wanted to get as much protection uptime as I could. Don't know him much I get without the rune, or if sanctuary might be better. But cheesy deadeyes onehitting themselves is pretty fun to watch xD Because nobody expects necro to have magnetic aura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dace.8173 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 > @"Nimon.7840" said: > Btw, can anyone test this build in higher PvP ranks?: > > http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRBLbhG2IJNUTjt2gPNwfjDohS2ABwyOThauEotQPEqA-jphIQBZY/BFeQA23DAQelBAwJAgbHBAA > > I came up with it last Saturday, and me and a friend had fun to duoqueue with it. > > Against not so good players we could easily defend points alone 1v2 > > The sustain is ridiculous. I like this build. I gave it a spin tonight and I did fairly well with it. I had concerns that I'd underperform with it since it's been years since I've played core Necromancer but I took to it really fast (like seriously I had even forgotten what standard Shroud let me do). It had nice sustain and I was able to outlive most of the Reapers I faced. I found myself being able to take a fair chunk of damage from most folks I fought. I think it has potential. I'll have to play it more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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