Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 > @"Arden.7480" said: > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > > @"Artyport.2084" said: > > > Is it possible we will find a secret stash of glints other eggs? I mean she had a ton in her lair in gw1 > > > > Pact Commander: I saw the Master of Peace take an egg. > > Ogden Stonehealer: The last one intact. It's been in stasis since her death. The Master of Peace is taking it where it will be safe and allowed to hatch. > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Arcana#At_the_Durmand_Priory > > > > Aurene's Egg was the "last one intact" meaning something happened to the other eggs. We do not know what, but given that the destroyers went after Vlast after he hatched, and did the same with Aurene, then it's likely some were sent after the other eggs and the eggs were destroyed. > > why are Primordus' minions so interested in killing the eggs, though? > > Why is Primordus so eager to destroy Glint's Legacy? Does he feel the danger? Honestly, I've wondered the same and originally I thought that due to the destroyer attack and the brief similarities between Primordus and Glint in GW1, that those two might be related. Then they made Kralkatorrik to be the one related. It's most curious because by all reasoning, the Pale Tree should be just as much of a threat, but the risen completely ignored the Pale Tree until sylvari began to spawn; and no other dragon besides Mordremoth bothers with the Pale Tree either. Curiously, only Kralkatorrik and Primordus seemed interested in Glint and her children. Maybe Primordus is the mamma dragon. > @"Randulf.7614" said: > Destroyers were fairly indiscriminate in what they killed and destroyed in gw1. Poss attracted to the magic otherwise I suspect they saw them just as a target While largely true, they did on occasion strike intentional places. The CTC, the baby dragon, the golem foundry, and the Raven Shrine being four most notable examples. Those were nigh endless waves assaulting the places, not indiscriminate attacks.> @"perilisk.1874" said: > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > > @"Artyport.2084" said: > > > Is it possible we will find a secret stash of glints other eggs? I mean she had a ton in her lair in gw1 > > > > Pact Commander: I saw the Master of Peace take an egg. > > Ogden Stonehealer: The last one intact. It's been in stasis since her death. The Master of Peace is taking it where it will be safe and allowed to hatch. > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Arcana#At_the_Durmand_Priory > > > > Aurene's Egg was the "last one intact" meaning something happened to the other eggs. We do not know what, but given that the destroyers went after Vlast after he hatched, and did the same with Aurene, then it's likely some were sent after the other eggs and the eggs were destroyed. > > That could just mean that they hatched, though. Even with Glint, Vlast, and Aurene, it wouldn't enough replacements to stabilize things, which sounds like a bad plan. And now we're down to one known scion, unless Vlast is restored. (Maybe Braham should be his champion, they've got the emo thing to bond over.) > > Could be there are some other scions waiting in the woodwork. But for whatever reason, Vlast was supposed to wait before replacing Kraalkatorik. Not sure what for, but I guess we will find out. Except that Aurene is repeatedly called the **second** scion of Glint, with Vlast being the first. If others hatched, Aurene would be the third, fourth, or fifth, etc. not the second. Unless they hatched with zero knowledge from the Exalted, but that seems counter-intuitive to the whole legacy dealio. But then again, not telling the Commander or the Pact that killing Elder Dragons without a replacement is a bad idea is also counter-intuitive.... _OGDEN!_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bast.7253 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 > @"Dimi Gravedancer.1463" said: > > @"ugrakarma.9416" said: > > The post-Joko "good awakened" being part of the "save the world crew" is a nice touch. We have the pact, the Destiny Edge, persons from GW1-NightFall, the Sunspears. I'm curious to know who else more will come up, or if will be there more "famous ghosts" from the mists. > > You know, this would be a good opportunity to get someone from Cantha to show up. Even if just for some "Foreshadowing", as I am 90% sure the next Xpac will be Cantha (at least I am praying) Well, I suppose there is the possibility of the Oracle of the Mists showing up. Might be a nice possible introduction to future plots. *shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SidewayS.3789 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 If the new Xpac will be another human expansion (Cantha) i wont buy it, and i know i lot of ppls will do the same. I want the new exp something around Charr or Norn or even Asura. I'm already fed up with these episodes, where no matter if you are a Charr/Norn/Asura even Sylvari, you are viewed like a human commander. Maybe next exp will be moving us east of Ascalon, where the Blood Legion have their own territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eekasqueak.7850 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 I'd be fine with Cantha if they find a way not to make it so human centric. Maybe even make humans the antagonists in it while we help out tengu or some other race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenom.9457 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 We have such a nice huge map right now and several dragons that could awaken at any moment - not to mention new threats can be written in at any time. I hope for cantha someday too but I think it’s several expansions away still Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 If Cantha shows up, I feel like it'd be part of a post-Elder Dragon storyline ArenaNet creates to keep GW2 going past its original primary plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sajuuk Khar.1509 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 > @"SidewayS.3789" said: > If the new Xpac will be another human expansion (Cantha) i wont buy it, and i know i lot of ppls will do the same. I want the new exp something around Charr or Norn or even Asura. I'm already fed up with these episodes, where no matter if you are a Charr/Norn/Asura even Sylvari, you are viewed like a human commander. Maybe next exp will be moving us east of Ascalon, where the Blood Legion have their own territory. -Any Jormag expansion will invariably take us to the Far shiverpeaks, and thus, old Norn lands. -Primordus, being underground, will likely take us to some old dwarven and Asura ruins. -Bubbles will be somewhere... be it Cantha, or the "sunken islands" or the "arid" region. I really don't see a place to fit in much Charr lands... outside of LW episodes for before or after a Jormag expansion that take place in the Blood Legion homeland area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perilisk.1874 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Cantha could always represent an opportunity for an old fashioned war plot. Which builds up, and then ends abruptly when DSD eats the Canthan and Tyrian navies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arden.7480 Posted January 4, 2019 Author Share Posted January 4, 2019 What made me thinking this evening when I was playing GW2 was the dialogue line from The Way Forward: _That was Josso Essher, one of the legacy's main architects. Sadly, he was lost in the attempt to convert Kralkatorrik._ "convert" Kralkatorrik, like making the same ritual as the Forgotten did to Glaust, so it became Glint? Can it still be a thing? Trying to convert him, instead of killing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 > @"Arden.7480" said: > Can it still be a thing? Trying to convert him, instead of killing? Follow up line to that: Sadizi: Yes. The Forgotten dared to try, but the hunger of the Elder Dragons is too strong. It proved a tragic failure. If the Forgotten couldn't do it, I doubt anyone can, because ultimately, Kralkatorrik isn't enslaved like Glint was. He's the slaver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig. Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 > @"Walhalla.5473" said: > There is something that bugs me here. We all saw the visions from Aurene where, despite what future it was, Aurene just died. And now we are trying to find something that gives us an edge against him. If so... why wasn't that thing included in the visions? Either it was there and the end would be the same or we aren't getting anything that gives us an edge. the vision.... it always showed the same thing - we try to confront Kralk directly with different allies, aurene died. It did not show that every path leads to Aurene death - just that a frontal assault in any form must fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOddOne.4387 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 I think that's undermining just how demoralising that vision was. Either it means something or it was pointless to have it in there in the first place, if it's going to be as simple as, "Oh well not EVERY one of those visions was a failure", because that's not what the vision was saying, from a narrative point of view. The only way the vision/s can be interpreted in a meaningful way to the story is that EVERY possibility currently imaginable by a prophetic dragon is going to fail, not just frontal attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sajuuk Khar.1509 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said: > I think that's undermining just how demoralising that vision was. > > Either it means something or it was pointless to have it in there in the first place, if it's going to be as simple as, "Oh well not EVERY one of those visions was a failure", because that's not what the vision was saying, from a narrative point of view. > > The only way the vision/s can be interpreted in a meaningful way to the story is that EVERY possibility currently imaginable by a prophetic dragon is going to fail, not just frontal attacks. We have already seen that the power of prophecy is limited by what the vision holder knows. Glint could foresee the future, but couldn't see her own death, she only stopped seeing things past a certain point, and didn't exactly what what that meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOddOne.4387 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 And? If we apply the same thing to Aurene, what's the point if we win against Kralkatorrik even if Aurene is dead? Which is why she didn't see that victory. Because that's a loss regardless, because we need Aurene to be alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sajuuk Khar.1509 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said: > And? If we apply the same thing to Aurene, what's the point if we win against Kralkatorrik even if Aurene is dead? Which is why she didn't see that victory. Because that's a loss regardless, because we need Aurene to be alive. Aurene's visions were limited by her understanding. All she could show is that any attempt to kill Kralk in the typical way would fail, but we are obviously going to Thunderhead Peaks to get some Mcguffin that would let us win in a non-conventional way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOddOne.4387 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Are they limited by her understanding though? That's never said. And again, it takes away from the narrative significance of that vision if it's any less than as catastrophic as was shown. It cheapens the drama of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sajuuk Khar.1509 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said: > Are they limited by her understanding though? That's never said. > > And again, it takes away from the narrative significance of that vision if it's any less than as catastrophic as was shown. It cheapens the drama of it. Based on what we know from Glint, most likely. I don't agree. The vision shows any mundane attack against Kralkatorik will fail, meaning, any attempt to do what we did with Zhiatan and Mordremoth will fail. That's pretty big given that throwing a bunch of mooks in airships and tanks at the enemy has pretty much been our large scale victory plan for the past 6 years. It still retains its importance of "guys, anything we try to do the normal way is screwed!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castigator.3470 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said: > Are they limited by her understanding though? That's never said. > > And again, it takes away from the narrative significance of that vision if it's any less than as catastrophic as was shown. It cheapens the drama of it. I'd say prophecy is a shaky business to begin with. Your predictions are not actually set in stone, but they can manifest. In this regard, prophecies are actually safer than visions, because they can be pretty vague. A vision like Aurene's confrontation rests on the commander attacking Kralkatorrik in a frontal assault. If we airdrop the commander onto Kralkatorrik from above and have him attack the elder dragon from the inside, the scenario of confrontation as shown in the vision will be useless, as it shows a path left untraveled. And that's a thing with seers and visions, you have to ask the right questions to get the right answers. The answer to what happens, if we assault Kralkatorrik is perfectly clear. A better question might have been "How do we fulfill Glint's Legacy?". If this returns a blank, the old plan might have been derailed too much and we'll have to improvise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perilisk.1874 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Considering Glint couldn't foresee her death, it's possible that Aurene is misunderstanding the visions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOddOne.4387 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Yes, yes. All valid options, point still stands: Why show the vision in that case. Why make it such a dramatic storytelling device if nothing is going to come of it because "oh lol we'll just do what the vision didn't show!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig. Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 because it is a dramatic revelation for Aurene? An Aurene that is very young and unused to think about visions and prophecies? She just saw herself die over and over again, was shocked and ran away. As I would expect from a being that is almost a child. At that moment she lacked the capacity to see the ray of hope in there: that the vision showed the same attack over and over again. I am shocked that none of the oh-so-smart-characters saw it. This was a moment where Aurene needed guidance by an educated, intelligent being and all her comrades failed her. Because they are all idiots. Ryt, PC, Taimi... a bunch of windowlicking glue eaters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said: > Are they limited by her understanding though? That's never said. > > And again, it takes away from the narrative significance of that vision if it's any less than as catastrophic as was shown. It cheapens the drama of it. From what we see, it's limited by Aurene's and the Commander's (thus the player's) understanding. The vision was showing us with various combinations of our **current** allies and weaponry. Be it Pact, Elonian alliance, Dragon's Watch, or the tools we've seen used (such as the Mega-LIT canon that took down Zhaitan - or possibly a modification of the Warbeast, hard to tell what the canon is meant to be). Thus the idea would then be that we're getting something that the Commander and Aurene do not know about, thus wasn't in any of those dozens of visions, and should in theory give us the edge over Kralkatorrik. Though Kralkatorrik has gotten far stronger than ever anticipated. The narrative significance is that, at the current moment, Aurene and her allies has no means of beating Kralkatorrik. The entire purpose of Episode 5 has so far been suggested to be about finding that means. I don't think that cheapens the drama at all. Not only is it bringing up the drama for the confrontation, but it's forcing the Commander to go out and explore while Kralkatorrik is getting stronger in the hopes of finding a means to prevent that vision. The vision's primary purpose is effectively to prolong the plot just a bit more by two releases. It prevents us from just going into the Mists and facing Kralkatorrik in Episode 4, and it's telling the Commander to not even try it because it'll be a failure. Obviously we will manage to beat Kralkatorrik. ArenaNet doesn't tell stories where the hero dies in the end, just stories where the heroes make things worse when solving the issues in front of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arden.7480 Posted January 5, 2019 Author Share Posted January 5, 2019 > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > @"Arden.7480" said: > > Can it still be a thing? Trying to convert him, instead of killing? > > Follow up line to that: > > Sadizi: Yes. The Forgotten dared to try, but the hunger of the Elder Dragons is too strong. It proved a tragic failure. > > If the Forgotten couldn't do it, I doubt anyone can, because ultimately, Kralkatorrik isn't enslaved like Glint was. He's the slaver. > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > @"Arden.7480" said: > > Can it still be a thing? Trying to convert him, instead of killing? > > Follow up line to that: > > Sadizi: Yes. The Forgotten dared to try, but the hunger of the Elder Dragons is too strong. It proved a tragic failure. > > If the Forgotten couldn't do it, I doubt anyone can, because ultimately, Kralkatorrik isn't enslaved like Glint was. He's the slaver. Of course I read the full dialogue, but if they even dared to try, then they must have had reasons to do so. We don't know what or who failed, and why such powerful beings, as the Forgotten are, failed. Why did they even dared to try to convert Kralk, right? And where was Glint, when they were doing that? Are there any historical book that can help me find answers to those questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 We do know what failed... Sadizi states it right _there_. Kralkatorrik's hunger was too strong. They couldn't "purify" Kralkatorrik, despite working the ritual. Also, since Kralkatorrik was awake when the Forgotten tried, Glint was dead. That's where she was - six feet under (or rather, a few thousand feet in the sky in an airship being harvested for crystal and magic). The only question that remains is "why did the Forgotten think it could work?" Chances are, they probably had doubts it would, but thought along the lines of the old phrase nothing ventured, nothing gained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arden.7480 Posted January 5, 2019 Author Share Posted January 5, 2019 so they risked everything for something they could have predicted? But if it was after Glint's death, then why didn't they help her and Destiny's Edge out to bring down Kralkatorrik? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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