Please fix game balance

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > @"aspirine.6852" said:

> > > I think scaling down the damage in WvW a bit would make for more longer lasting fights. But it would also be needed to cut back on the healing a lot.

> >

> > Imo single damage on this game is fine, theres alot of counter to it, they need to reduce the aoe and cleaves.. that's what unskilled players dont want tho.

> > Some cleave skills actually need to be single target...

>

>

> But AoE skills are only good versus people who stack, otherwise they function just like single target ones...

>

> The things that make brainless zerging so effective are downstate and AoE caps, nerfing AoEs would make buff both stacking and the downstate.

>

> Something about the narrative you're trying to push just doesn't add up.

>

>

You know the narrative is always all over the place right? Uncapped AoE is often brought up as the holy grail of "fight zergs" yet at the same time people complain that skills do too much damage and zerglings get instantly killed with little warning.

 

[DemonSeed.3528]

> @"Mr Wipe of Scrubs.6491" said:

> There's even invisible wall sometimes when you are clearly on a FLAT terrain and it says obstructed, it rarely happens but I've had that happen at least 3 times in the past 8-12 months of playing ranger in WvW.

 

The most notorious place for me is near the outer rims of north camp on alpine border near the bench area near the dolly/supps. It's really nice to kite a ranger there lol. I can never use my axe/sbow in that area. [note: you don't actually have to be at the benches, just anywhere near the rim of the circle like between the bench and the hut near synthesizers].

 

[lodjur.1284]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > > @"aspirine.6852" said:

> > > > I think scaling down the damage in WvW a bit would make for more longer lasting fights. But it would also be needed to cut back on the healing a lot.

> > >

> > > Imo single damage on this game is fine, theres alot of counter to it, they need to reduce the aoe and cleaves.. that's what unskilled players dont want tho.

> > > Some cleave skills actually need to be single target...

> >

> >

> > But AoE skills are only good versus people who stack, otherwise they function just like single target ones...

> >

> > The things that make brainless zerging so effective are downstate and AoE caps, nerfing AoEs would make buff both stacking and the downstate.

> >

> > Something about the narrative you're trying to push just doesn't add up.

> >

> >

> You know the narrative is always all over the place right? Uncapped AoE is often brought up as the holy grail of "fight zergs" yet at the same time people complain that skills do too much damage and zerglings get instantly killed with little warning.

>

 

Noone has whined about AoEs doing too much damage (except you I suppose), what they are whining about is the that zergfights suffer from visual bloating, due to there being more red circles than ever, TTK in a zerg when caught outside of your blob is 0.1 sec as it has always been lol.

 

Damage is too high outside of zergs with soulbeast for example doing 5k+ autoattacks against people in trailblazer armor with protection on.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > > @"aspirine.6852" said:

> > > > I think scaling down the damage in WvW a bit would make for more longer lasting fights. But it would also be needed to cut back on the healing a lot.

> > >

> > > Imo single damage on this game is fine, theres alot of counter to it, they need to reduce the aoe and cleaves.. that's what unskilled players dont want tho.

> > > Some cleave skills actually need to be single target...

> >

> >

> > But AoE skills are only good versus people who stack, otherwise they function just like single target ones...

> >

> > The things that make brainless zerging so effective are downstate and AoE caps, nerfing AoEs would make buff both stacking and the downstate.

> >

> > Something about the narrative you're trying to push just doesn't add up.

> >

> >

> You know the narrative is always all over the place right? Uncapped AoE is often brought up as the holy grail of "fight zergs" yet at the same time people complain that skills do too much damage and zerglings get instantly killed with little warning.

>

 

Well i think both could be achieved, IMO it is what i always defended, strong aoe classes but most reamin single to cleave damage designed, still with a mix of aoe depending on the skill logic itself.

This is at most hilarious.....we can find a cleave skills list, but now aoe skills list on the wiki, game is so absurd broken on that, that even Anet try to hide it :}

 

 

The point would be most skills become single target, like:

Most autos would become single just a few could become cleaves.

Mighty Blow, it would damage 1 target and still be blaster finisher, maybe would become a KD, and if target has stability would have another effect.

Sword Arc, could still be a cleave

Whirling, Wrath could maintain 5 targets

Leap of Faith, single target only or at max cleave to 2 nearest enemies of the target we are leapign into, still only target would take damage.

 

Now with alot of skills reduced from cleave to single and some aoe to single or cleave, some AOE classes could get it AOE cap increased, ill go for spells that go more logical (IMO) to get the aoe cap increased.

Meteor storm cap (the anti zerg busting skills) 7 targets with a trait or some option that increases it to +2 or 3 targets but would cause skills exaustion (based on gw1 exaustion but skills casted would not enter in CD and would be grayed out for some time, getting out of combat would start a timer that would reduce(end) exaustion effect faster from skills bar.

Healing Rain, increase cap to 10 and remove burn of affected targets(or at least would remove always this condi in first place if fire+extra condi is to strong) + condi removed.

Unsteady Ground keep the 10 targets, add slow condi and players affected in UG move % slower as well, if vertical skills aplyed on affected target ,target is KD or looses stability.

Necromancer wells could be increase to 7 players as well i believe, i believe scourge sand cleaving is accurate and balanced in a way, we tend to blame aoe lameness to scourges alone, but the real issue are all the range aoe classes and melee classes where most/alot stuff is aoe.

 

Well i think this can explain a bit the logic im aplying, by removing lots of cleave/aoe but increasing on strong aoe skills, this is just some example out of the box.

IMO the only problem with the balance is Anet was awafull in sspreading the AOE effect in the classes design, so they slacker solution for balance is make everything mostly aoe... well.. that's preciselly the oposite effect.

 

 

With this changes i think GVG could be way more skilled than scourges aoe spam out of a mesmer stealth.. skill yeah right... that died in gw1 guys, maybe in future could actually something.

On WvW game would be more about learn where is enemy aoe group, while melee could have more space and players could dedica more to pay atention to the targets doings and wereabout rather than lay aoe aoe aoe and hope to have way more aoe and players than adversaries.

 

IMO it would increase player skills overtime, and game quality.

 

 

[lodjur.1284]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > > > @"aspirine.6852" said:

> > > > > I think scaling down the damage in WvW a bit would make for more longer lasting fights. But it would also be needed to cut back on the healing a lot.

> > > >

> > > > Imo single damage on this game is fine, theres alot of counter to it, they need to reduce the aoe and cleaves.. that's what unskilled players dont want tho.

> > > > Some cleave skills actually need to be single target...

> > >

> > >

> > > But AoE skills are only good versus people who stack, otherwise they function just like single target ones...

> > >

> > > The things that make brainless zerging so effective are downstate and AoE caps, nerfing AoEs would make buff both stacking and the downstate.

> > >

> > > Something about the narrative you're trying to push just doesn't add up.

> > >

> > >

> > You know the narrative is always all over the place right? Uncapped AoE is often brought up as the holy grail of "fight zergs" yet at the same time people complain that skills do too much damage and zerglings get instantly killed with little warning.

> >

>

> Well i think both could be achieved, IMO it is what i always defended, strong aoe classes but most reamin single to cleave damage designed, still with a mix of aoe depending on the skill logic itself.

> This is at most hilarious.....we can find a cleave skills list, but now aoe skills list on the wiki, game is so absurd broken on that, that even Anet try to hide it :}

 

Anet doesn't run the wiki. Noone is trying to hide anything, noone just thought it was worth the effort to create a list of all AoE skills in the game.

 

> The point would be most skills become single target, like:

> Most autos would become single just a few could become cleaves.

> Mighty Blow, it would damage 1 target and still be blaster finisher, maybe would become a KD, and if target has stability would have another effect.

> Sword Arc, could still be a cleave

> Whirling, Wrath could maintain 5 targets

> Leap of Faith, single target only or at max cleave to 2 nearest enemies of the target we are leapign into, still only target would take damage.

 

So add more CC to burst skills and buff downstate, ye no thanks.

 

> Now with alot of skills reduced from cleave to single and some aoe to single or cleave, some AOE classes could get it AOE cap increased, ill go for spells that go more logical (IMO) to get the aoe cap increased.

> Meteor storm cap (the anti zerg busting skills) 7 targets with a trait or some option that increases it to +2 or 3 targets but would cause skills exaustion (based on gw1 exaustion but skills casted would not enter in CD and would be grayed out for some time, getting out of combat would start a timer that would reduce(end) exaustion effect faster from skills bar.

> Healing Rain, increase cap to 10 and remove burn of affected targets(or at least would remove always this condi in first place if fire+extra condi is to strong) + condi removed.

> Unsteady Ground keep the 10 targets, add slow condi and players affected in UG move % slower as well, if vertical skills aplyed on affected target ,target is KD or looses stability.

> Necromancer wells could be increase to 7 players as well i believe, i believe scourge sand cleaving is accurate and balanced in a way, we tend to blame aoe lameness to scourges alone, but the real issue are all the range aoe classes and melee classes where most/alot stuff is aoe.

>

> Well i think this can explain a bit the logic im aplying, by removing lots of cleave/aoe but increasing on strong aoe skills, this is just some example out of the box.

> IMO the only problem with the balance is Anet was awafull in sspreading the AOE effect in the classes design, so they slacker solution for balance is make everything mostly aoe... well.. that's preciselly the oposite effect.

>

 

There should be no AoE cap.

 

AoE cap is why AoEs are dominant. If AoE caps didn't exist people would be forced to stack, therefore single target skills would be more useful.

 

All changes you proposed would be a buff to zergs.

 

The reason scourge gets blamed is cause it causes visual clutters when you stack 20 of the 300 radius shade, this is a zerg issue, not a balance one (fyi scourges do terrible damage in zergs).

 

> With this changes i think GVG could be way more skilled than scourges aoe spam out of a mesmer stealth.. skill yeah right... that died in gw1 guys, maybe in future could actually something.

> On WvW game would be more about learn where is enemy aoe group, while melee could have more space and players could dedica more to pay atention to the targets doings and wereabout rather than lay aoe aoe aoe and hope to have way more aoe and players than adversaries.

>

> IMO it would increase player skills overtime, and game quality.

 

25-50 vs 25-50 will never have any amount of skill required it's just in the nature of things when you're that many players.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

>(big snip)

>There should be no AoE cap.

 

>AoE cap is why AoEs are dominant. If AoE caps didn't exist people would be forced to stack, therefore single target skills would be more useful.

 

>All changes you proposed would be a buff to zergs.

 

>The reason scourge gets blamed is cause it causes visual clutters when you stack 20 of the 300 radius shade, this is a zerg issue, not a balance one (fyi scourges do >terrible damage in zergs).

>(snip)

> 25-50 vs 25-50 will never have any amount of skill required it's just in the nature of things when you're that many players.

 

Why would be a buff to zergs if aoe is increased with key skills, it would just involve more skill rather continuous aoe spam... in a way every class would have a few aoe+cleave skills rather than be everything or almost ev eryhing cleave+aoe, the increase of aoe in some skills acutally would put a smaller group in chance to wipe a much bigger one, the thing is balance and cleverness is needed, and that is aquired by making lesse really strong aoe spells, some cleave and more single target combat, not by give all aoes to most classes, some skills need to be "key pwners" on zerg busting, after that it would be most about player side skill and not more about well... keep the aoe spam.. that isnt skill...

 

Oh yeah the visual clutter produced from scourges is a pain.., reason i said it was ok since is about visual clutter, the issue is the balance on alot of skills being designed to hit several mobs player dont need to think who he is atacking since most skills are cleave and aoe... wich creates the to much friendly/carry help about aoe issue in game, while some skill should actually should have its aoe targets alved.

 

 

AOE cap is limited not because Anet wants but due server loads, so if u want aoe cap increased u to need to take it from somewhere else...

Gw1 worked great with alot of single targets skils.

 

 

[lodjur.1284]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> >(big snip)

> >There should be no AoE cap.

>

> >AoE cap is why AoEs are dominant. If AoE caps didn't exist people would be forced to stack, therefore single target skills would be more useful.

>

> >All changes you proposed would be a buff to zergs.

>

> >The reason scourge gets blamed is cause it causes visual clutters when you stack 20 of the 300 radius shade, this is a zerg issue, not a balance one (fyi scourges do >terrible damage in zergs).

> >(snip)

> > 25-50 vs 25-50 will never have any amount of skill required it's just in the nature of things when you're that many players.

>

> Why would be a buff to zergs if aoe is increased with key skills, it would just involve more skill rather continuous aoe spam... in a way every class would have a few aoe+cleave skills rather than be everything or almost ev eryhing cleave+aoe, the increase of aoe in some skills acutally would put a smaller group in chance to wipe a much bigger one, the thing is balance and cleverness is needed, and that is aquired by making lesse really strong aoe spells, some cleave and more single target combat, not by give all aoes to most classes, some skills need to be "key pwners" on zerg busting, after that it would be most about player side skill and not more about well... keep the aoe spam.. that isnt skill...

 

AoEs aren't any easier to use than a generic single target skill that tracks the enemy anyway...

The counter to single targeting is stacking+healing, which zergs do.

The counter to AoE capped skills is stacking+healing, which zergs do.

 

The counter to AoEs without caps is to spread, the counter to spreading is single targeting.

 

> Oh yeah the visual clutter produced from scourges is a pain.., reason i said it was ok since is about visual clutter, the issue is the balance on alot of skills being designed to hit several mobs player dont need to think who he is atacking since most skills are cleave and aoe... wich creates the to much friendly/carry help about aoe issue in game, while some skill should actually should have its aoe targets alved.

 

So you wanna buff stacking, got it.

 

> AOE cap is limited not because Anet wants but due server loads, so if u want aoe cap increased u to need to take it from somewhere else...

> Gw1 worked great with alot of single targets skils.

 

AoE caps are negative for server performance. The game needs to calculate who gets hit and also zergs fights are longer and encourage stacking>more lag, without AoE caps the zerg fights would be over if people tried stacking and server performance would increase, fairly simple stuff.

This isn't GW1.

 

 

 

[Burnfall.9573]

(what is the point of this post? The point is, this is the direct impact of dedicate devoted passionate leaders who has made a difference in players lives-in game. These devoted teachers were inspiration to many present and to new players alike. They took the time to teach players in game, via steaming and by video outlets. Their passion, devotion, patience, motivation, willingfulness to listen to both positiveness and negativeness, to help strengthen players..inspirational.

 

Teachers/Leaders plays important role in the game. Their professional efforts and caring hearts to educate, to inspire others

 

 

'True Leaders servers people. Servers their best interests, and in doing so, will not always be popular, may not always impress.. Because True Leaders are motivated by loving concerns rather than a desire for personal glory, They are willing to pay the price'

 

**Leaders create new Leaders**

 

Continual refusal to fix the state of the game, will result leaders leaving...resulting their students-the players leaving soon after. Who will point the way when the state of the game drives them away?

 

 

Tubby Two Ton-

 

'want to again thank everyone for the overwhelming support you all have shown me, serious luv to everybody. There are many reasons why I am quitting this game that I will not get into but I will still continue to post new content here and there on whatever game I will be playing on stream.'

 

'Thanks for being such an amazing content creator and friend! See you around <3 happy holidays!'

 

'NOOOOOOO! You were the best rev steamer and most educational . Will miss ya !'

 

'Sad to hear... You were one of the best players in the game and also one of the most educational in terms of trying to explain how to play Rev. I enjoyed both your YT videos and your streams inmensely, and my only regret was not being able to follow you more frequently due the huge hour disparity (Spain here). Anyway, thanx a lot for your invaluable contribution to the class and the game, best of lucks in your future endeavours and your days in the Earth...'

 

'Sad to see you go man...always enjoyed the streams. Dueling you and chatting with you made me a much better rev main, and I’ll be playing rev till the end. Thought about starting to make some vids for revs and builds, but just not the same as you man! Best of luck to whatever you decide to do'

 

's sad to know this news I loved watching you play it made me also dedicate myself to my rev and improve a lot I always follow your stream but I confess that I will miss seeing these plays of yours, but you know what's best for you I wish you good luck ! (and if I wanted to go back, I'd leave a lot more happy people) ??

 

'Another one bites the dust :( you were one of the best and will be remembered'

 

'I just got back to GW2 after leaving 2 years ago. Sad to see the good ones going'

 

'Hello, I just started playing the game and have all the extras and came across your video where you talk about the imbalance and because of this you leave the game? How do I understand the strong imbalance in pvp in this regard?'

 

'im new to gw2 and now i see people leaving :( i only got to lvl 40 then i stop playing cuz i have no friends to play :( '

 

[EremiteAngel.9765]

> @"Brujeria.7536" said:

> Anet please fix the balance in your game. Things like this should not be possible under ANY circumstance. Getting critical hit for 10 k damage by an 1500 range AUTOATTACK is unaccaptable. Getting hit for 6 k damage by a 1200 RANGE CROWD CONTROL ABILITY is unacceptable.

>

> Regardless of the gamemode. Regardless of the cirumstance. Its a ranged weapon, requiring 0 skill or coordination, simple key spaming. Damage numbers like this might be acceptable if the base healthpool is 200k.

>

> This is just a isolated sample of the many cases of balance that are wrong in the game. Warriors critting for 6 k damage with a gapcloser and stun skill. Warriors critting for 6 k damage with a EVADE skill. Thief having a 4 SECOND EVADE THAT DEALS DAMAGE AND HAS NO COUNTERPLAY. Thiefs hitting you for 12 k damage out of stealth, with no counterplay. Engies with a 2 second CD gapcloser that crits for 5 k damage while spilling boons. Multiple, overlapping skilleffects and skills that are so overtuned, both in damage and effect. Your philosophy always where to not add mechanics that are unfun to play against. Why do these things exist? Why do they even get buffed? Why do classes like thief and mesmer exist in its current state? Its not fun to fight against a class that can disengage at will, or vs a class that has such a high evade / damage immunity uptime with NO counterplay.

>

> Balance like this is a disgrace to the entire game you built, it nullifies the great quick and very fluid combat system you crafted. It ruins all the combat mechanics you created and added. The powercreep simply devalues active play, it devalues strategy, tactics and timing in exchange for powercreep.

>

>

> [https://imgur.com/a/Il3COBk](https://imgur.com/a/Il3COBk "https://imgur.com/a/Il3COBk")

>

 

It isn't just the high damage power creep that needs to be reviewed.

There is also an issue with the mobility creep that has created an imbalance between long-range classes and melee classes.

I posted this earlier for a discussion from a WvW perspective in mind but it was moved to the professions thread.

 

In the past I used to think that mobility like leaps, dash, blinks etc. was mainly prioritized for melee builds/weapons.

Hence we see many of the short-ranged melee weapons having mobility gap-closing skills (the only exception is Necro weapons having no mobility skills at all).

Range weapons of 1200+ range and beyond generally had no mobility skill attached to it.

Instead, Range weapons generally had a defensive mechanism to it that is not mobility related, like knockback, chill, push, immobilize etc.

 

This allowed melee builds to close the gap on range builds.

And it allowed Range builds to defend itself when the melee got close.

**At this stage, a proper fight will happen where skills mattered more.**

 

Now, we have the longest range class with a Soulbeast spec that is also more mobile than every other classes' melee builds (except for thieves) due to the merge mechanics with Bird pets.

And we have a long-range rifle wielding Deadeye with a spammable mobility skill on the weapon and also happens to already be one of the most mobile thief class.

**Now, these classes are just out-kiting and out-ranging almost every other class/build that it is more about whether you can even catch them.**

 

So I was wondering...like...

 

* Why was Soulbeast given so much more mobility on like their 'Owl' pet when they also have the longest range attack? Shouldn't their mobility be kept at core-ranger levels because of their long-range attacks?

* Why was Deadeye given a spammable mobility skill on a long-range weapon when they already are the most mobile class? Shouldn't there be no mobility skills attached to a long-range weapon?

 

Do these classes not already have sufficient tools from their core skills/weapons to survive when a melee build gap-closes without being given even more mobility?

[Kovu.7560]

> @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> > @"Brujeria.7536" said:

> > Anet please fix the balance in your game. Things like this should not be possible under ANY circumstance. Getting critical hit for 10 k damage by an 1500 range AUTOATTACK is unaccaptable. Getting hit for 6 k damage by a 1200 RANGE CROWD CONTROL ABILITY is unacceptable.

> >

> > Regardless of the gamemode. Regardless of the cirumstance. Its a ranged weapon, requiring 0 skill or coordination, simple key spaming. Damage numbers like this might be acceptable if the base healthpool is 200k.

> >

> > This is just a isolated sample of the many cases of balance that are wrong in the game. Warriors critting for 6 k damage with a gapcloser and stun skill. Warriors critting for 6 k damage with a EVADE skill. Thief having a 4 SECOND EVADE THAT DEALS DAMAGE AND HAS NO COUNTERPLAY. Thiefs hitting you for 12 k damage out of stealth, with no counterplay. Engies with a 2 second CD gapcloser that crits for 5 k damage while spilling boons. Multiple, overlapping skilleffects and skills that are so overtuned, both in damage and effect. Your philosophy always where to not add mechanics that are unfun to play against. Why do these things exist? Why do they even get buffed? Why do classes like thief and mesmer exist in its current state? Its not fun to fight against a class that can disengage at will, or vs a class that has such a high evade / damage immunity uptime with NO counterplay.

> >

> > Balance like this is a disgrace to the entire game you built, it nullifies the great quick and very fluid combat system you crafted. It ruins all the combat mechanics you created and added. The powercreep simply devalues active play, it devalues strategy, tactics and timing in exchange for powercreep.

> >

> >

> > [https://imgur.com/a/Il3COBk](https://imgur.com/a/Il3COBk "https://imgur.com/a/Il3COBk")

> >

>

> It isn't just the high damage power creep that needs to be reviewed.

> There is also an issue with the mobility creep that has created an imbalance between long-range classes and melee classes.

> I posted this earlier for a discussion from a WvW perspective in mind but it was moved to the professions thread.

>

> In the past I used to think that mobility like leaps, dash, blinks etc. was mainly prioritized for melee builds/weapons.

> Hence we see many of the short-ranged melee weapons having mobility gap-closing skills (the only exception is Necro weapons having no mobility skills at all).

> Range weapons of 1200+ range and beyond generally had no mobility skill attached to it.

> Instead, Range weapons generally had a defensive mechanism to it that is not mobility related, like knockback, chill, push, immobilize etc.

>

> This allowed melee builds to close the gap on range builds.

> And it allowed Range builds to defend itself when the melee got close.

>

> Now, we have the longest range class with a Soulbeast spec that is also more mobile than every other classes' melee builds (except for thieves) due to the merge mechanics with Bird pets.

> And we have a long-range rifle wielding Deadeye with a spammable mobility skill on the weapon and also happens to already be one of the most mobile thief class.

>

> So I was wondering...like...

>

> * Why was Soulbeast given so much more mobility on like their 'Owl' pet when they also have the longest range attack? Shouldn't their mobility be kept at core-ranger levels because of their long-range attacks?

> * Why was Deadeye given a spammable mobility skill on a long-range weapon when they already are the most mobile class? Shouldn't there be no mobility skills attached to a long-range weapon?

>

> Do these classes not already have sufficient tools from their core skills/weapons to survive when a melee build gap-closes without being given even more mobility?

 

Kiting the enemy is what the thief and ranger do well, neither do especially well while sitting in melee with a melee-oriented profession pounding on them. Moreover, a lot of those control effects are hardly effective when the biggest melee bruisers (warrior and engineer) have plenty of their own mobility, stab uptime, stunbreaks, cleansing, healing and traits that mitigate the effectiveness of soft CC and improve inherent tankiness.

 

The coin has two sides.

 

~ Kovu

[EremiteAngel.9765]

> @"Kovu.7560" said:

> > @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> > > @"Brujeria.7536" said:

> > > Anet please fix the balance in your game. Things like this should not be possible under ANY circumstance. Getting critical hit for 10 k damage by an 1500 range AUTOATTACK is unaccaptable. Getting hit for 6 k damage by a 1200 RANGE CROWD CONTROL ABILITY is unacceptable.

> > >

> > > Regardless of the gamemode. Regardless of the cirumstance. Its a ranged weapon, requiring 0 skill or coordination, simple key spaming. Damage numbers like this might be acceptable if the base healthpool is 200k.

> > >

> > > This is just a isolated sample of the many cases of balance that are wrong in the game. Warriors critting for 6 k damage with a gapcloser and stun skill. Warriors critting for 6 k damage with a EVADE skill. Thief having a 4 SECOND EVADE THAT DEALS DAMAGE AND HAS NO COUNTERPLAY. Thiefs hitting you for 12 k damage out of stealth, with no counterplay. Engies with a 2 second CD gapcloser that crits for 5 k damage while spilling boons. Multiple, overlapping skilleffects and skills that are so overtuned, both in damage and effect. Your philosophy always where to not add mechanics that are unfun to play against. Why do these things exist? Why do they even get buffed? Why do classes like thief and mesmer exist in its current state? Its not fun to fight against a class that can disengage at will, or vs a class that has such a high evade / damage immunity uptime with NO counterplay.

> > >

> > > Balance like this is a disgrace to the entire game you built, it nullifies the great quick and very fluid combat system you crafted. It ruins all the combat mechanics you created and added. The powercreep simply devalues active play, it devalues strategy, tactics and timing in exchange for powercreep.

> > >

> > >

> > > [https://imgur.com/a/Il3COBk](https://imgur.com/a/Il3COBk "https://imgur.com/a/Il3COBk")

> > >

> >

> > It isn't just the high damage power creep that needs to be reviewed.

> > There is also an issue with the mobility creep that has created an imbalance between long-range classes and melee classes.

> > I posted this earlier for a discussion from a WvW perspective in mind but it was moved to the professions thread.

> >

> > In the past I used to think that mobility like leaps, dash, blinks etc. was mainly prioritized for melee builds/weapons.

> > Hence we see many of the short-ranged melee weapons having mobility gap-closing skills (the only exception is Necro weapons having no mobility skills at all).

> > Range weapons of 1200+ range and beyond generally had no mobility skill attached to it.

> > Instead, Range weapons generally had a defensive mechanism to it that is not mobility related, like knockback, chill, push, immobilize etc.

> >

> > This allowed melee builds to close the gap on range builds.

> > And it allowed Range builds to defend itself when the melee got close.

> >

> > Now, we have the longest range class with a Soulbeast spec that is also more mobile than every other classes' melee builds (except for thieves) due to the merge mechanics with Bird pets.

> > And we have a long-range rifle wielding Deadeye with a spammable mobility skill on the weapon and also happens to already be one of the most mobile thief class.

> >

> > So I was wondering...like...

> >

> > * Why was Soulbeast given so much more mobility on like their 'Owl' pet when they also have the longest range attack? Shouldn't their mobility be kept at core-ranger levels because of their long-range attacks?

> > * Why was Deadeye given a spammable mobility skill on a long-range weapon when they already are the most mobile class? Shouldn't there be no mobility skills attached to a long-range weapon?

> >

> > Do these classes not already have sufficient tools from their core skills/weapons to survive when a melee build gap-closes without being given even more mobility?

>

> Kiting the enemy is what the thief and ranger do well, neither do especially well while sitting in melee with a melee-oriented profession pounding on them. Moreover, a lot of those control effects are hardly effective when the biggest melee bruisers (warrior and engineer) have plenty of their own mobility, stab uptime, stunbreaks, cleansing, healing and traits that mitigate the effectiveness of soft CC.

>

> The coin has two sides.

>

> ~ Kovu

 

I agree that it is something that they excel at.

My point is, their core versions of thief and ranger with their weapons/traits/skills already provide the tools for the elite counterparts to kite efficiently.

So why give them even more mobility to the point where it has become imbalanced?

And yes, warriors/engineers are also mobile.

It used to be balanced where they can close the gap on a ranger/thief and a proper fight breaks out.

Now? They can't catch an extreme kiting high DPS longrange ranger either.

Just watch Glad's streams.

They can't even touch him as he kites and blasts them from 1800 range.

[Kovu.7560]

I'm speaking super generally here.

 

If a warrior or engineer closes the gap on a thief or ranger and the thief or ranger used all of their tools to create another gap, the thief or ranger fucked up their rotation. Lack of said tools was part of the reason rangers were the laughing stock pre HoT. Rangers and thieves can't tank on power builds like warriors and engineers can. That's why they have lots of tools to kite. Kiting is their defense.

 

~ Kovu

[EremiteAngel.9765]

> @"Kovu.7560" said:

> I'm speaking super generally here.

>

> If a warrior or engineer closes the gap on a thief or ranger and the thief or ranger used all of their tools to create another gap, the thief or ranger kitten up their rotation. Lack of said tools was part of the reason rangers were the laughing stock pre HoT. Rangers and thieves can't tank on power builds like warriors and engineers can. That's why they have lots of tools to kite. Kiting is their defense.

>

> ~ Kovu

 

I'm not against reasonable amount of kiting tbh.

But given the range of their longbows, soulbeasts have gotten too much through Swoop on the bird pet.

 

* Pet bird Swoop - 1200 range (10 secs CD) (CD can be cut to 5 secs if you super-cancel the skill near the end of the leap)

* Hornet sting/Monarch leap - 1000 range (8 secs CD) or

* Great sword Swoop - 1000 range (12 secs CD)

 

This is not even factoring the already existing defensive mechanisms on the class.

Knockback on LB, Invis on LB, block on GS, Evades on S/D, invis on interactions with pet fields etc.

 

I've even seen soulbeasts who run **quickdraw/warrior runes** for 66% skill CD reduction on swap and 8 seconds weapon swapping CD.

This effectively makes Hornet sting/Monarch Leap 3 seconds and Greatsword swoop 4 seconds.

My gosh you can't even begin to imagine the mobility that they have.

 

**Near 1200 range swoop on 5 seconds CD + 1000 range Hornet sting/Monarch Leap on 3 seconds CD**

 

It has gotten to a point where extreme kiting soulbeasts can only be caught by thief and mesmer/revs to some extent.

[LetoII.3782]

Soulbeast does pretty well in melee range too.

[Strider Pj.2193]

Winter’s bite and maul are slack.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

Honestly I don't get why my threads that is more relevant to WvW gets moved out to all the profession forums while other people's roaming montages get to stay on this forum.

 

Is it okay if I share this here?

 

Please ignore that I was using a necro and instead look at what is broken on these classes that needs balancing.

 

I'm showing why perma invis needs to be balanced...why quickness + death judgement from invis is undodgeable...why it is unhealthy for perma invis thief to contest keep and 1-shot backstab players running out of spawn with zero tells...why giving DE the ability to remove reveal is bad...why condi mirage has so much condi spike application that I had to run 8-9 anti-condi tools just to break even...why soulbeast has so much mobility for such a long range high spike DPS class...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsfYoi5SQc4

[Xtinct.7031]

> @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> > @"Brujeria.7536" said:

> > Anet please fix the balance in your game. Things like this should not be possible under ANY circumstance. Getting critical hit for 10 k damage by an 1500 range AUTOATTACK is unaccaptable. Getting hit for 6 k damage by a 1200 RANGE CROWD CONTROL ABILITY is unacceptable.

> >

> > Regardless of the gamemode. Regardless of the cirumstance. Its a ranged weapon, requiring 0 skill or coordination, simple key spaming. Damage numbers like this might be acceptable if the base healthpool is 200k.

> >

> > This is just a isolated sample of the many cases of balance that are wrong in the game. Warriors critting for 6 k damage with a gapcloser and stun skill. Warriors critting for 6 k damage with a EVADE skill. Thief having a 4 SECOND EVADE THAT DEALS DAMAGE AND HAS NO COUNTERPLAY. Thiefs hitting you for 12 k damage out of stealth, with no counterplay. Engies with a 2 second CD gapcloser that crits for 5 k damage while spilling boons. Multiple, overlapping skilleffects and skills that are so overtuned, both in damage and effect. Your philosophy always where to not add mechanics that are unfun to play against. Why do these things exist? Why do they even get buffed? Why do classes like thief and mesmer exist in its current state? Its not fun to fight against a class that can disengage at will, or vs a class that has such a high evade / damage immunity uptime with NO counterplay.

> >

> > Balance like this is a disgrace to the entire game you built, it nullifies the great quick and very fluid combat system you crafted. It ruins all the combat mechanics you created and added. The powercreep simply devalues active play, it devalues strategy, tactics and timing in exchange for powercreep.

> >

> >

> > [https://imgur.com/a/Il3COBk](https://imgur.com/a/Il3COBk "https://imgur.com/a/Il3COBk")

> >

>

> It isn't just the high damage power creep that needs to be reviewed.

> There is also an issue with the mobility creep that has created an imbalance between long-range classes and melee classes.

> I posted this earlier for a discussion from a WvW perspective in mind but it was moved to the professions thread.

>

> In the past I used to think that mobility like leaps, dash, blinks etc. was mainly prioritized for melee builds/weapons.

> Hence we see many of the short-ranged melee weapons having mobility gap-closing skills (the only exception is Necro weapons having no mobility skills at all).

> Range weapons of 1200+ range and beyond generally had no mobility skill attached to it.

> Instead, Range weapons generally had a defensive mechanism to it that is not mobility related, like knockback, chill, push, immobilize etc.

>

> This allowed melee builds to close the gap on range builds.

> And it allowed Range builds to defend itself when the melee got close.

> **At this stage, a proper fight will happen where skills mattered more.**

>

> Now, we have the longest range class with a Soulbeast spec that is also more mobile than every other classes' melee builds (except for thieves) due to the merge mechanics with Bird pets.

> And we have a long-range rifle wielding Deadeye with a spammable mobility skill on the weapon and also happens to already be one of the most mobile thief class.

> **Now, these classes are just out-kiting and out-ranging almost every other class/build that it is more about whether you can even catch them.**

>

> So I was wondering...like...

>

> * Why was Soulbeast given so much more mobility on like their 'Owl' pet when they also have the longest range attack? Shouldn't their mobility be kept at core-ranger levels because of their long-range attacks?

> * Why was Deadeye given a spammable mobility skill on a long-range weapon when they already are the most mobile class? Shouldn't there be no mobility skills attached to a long-range weapon?

>

> Do these classes not already have sufficient tools from their core skills/weapons to survive when a melee build gap-closes without being given even more mobility?

 

Exactly, it isnt just power damage that is creating broken classes but the combination of it along with mobility skills. When a class is capable of disengaging and reengaging into combat with weapon and utility abilities on low cooldowns it put them at a huge advantage in the situation. This is why, soulbeast and mirage are so broken at the moment.

 

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> Honestly I don't get why my threads that is more relevant to WvW gets moved out to all the profession forums while other people's roaming montages get to stay on this forum.

>

> Is it okay if I share this here?

>

> Please ignore that I was using a necro and instead look at what is broken on these classes that needs balancing.

>

> I'm showing why perma invis needs to be balanced...why quickness + death judgement from invis is undodgeable...why it is unhealthy for perma invis thief to contest keep and 1-shot backstab players running out of spawn with zero tells...why giving DE the ability to remove reveal is bad...why condi mirage has so much condi spike application that I had to run 8-9 anti-condi tools just to break even...why soulbeast has so much mobility for such a long range high spike DPS class...

>

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsfYoi5SQc4

 

+1 Great Job!!

 

name another game company who put with this trash during its 6 years in the industry? ?

 

Seriously, as;k yourself... how does this toxicity benefit a health of a competitive game?? How much more sufficient evidence of truth needed for all players and non players to not clearly see the direction of the the game balance? Should 6 more years convit you? will it be enough?

 

(it's no brainer that gw2 toxic game balance is giving the industry + (gw2 competitors) more reasons to celebrate)

--we don't need to tell them anything, **'Actions Speak Louder Than Words'**> the toxic game balance speaks for itself---

 

They read the balance patch notes too, they watch the aftermath of videos after balance patch releases too, they take note and witness long term unresolved and ignore matters too, they read and take notes of years of neglect by the balance team and game designers to turn this game into a healthy competitive learning game by its players.

 

Yes, they are watching and learning carefully, closely to not make the same mistakes in their game. Afterall,, players needing a healthy competitive fun gaming scene with having risk+reward design and mechanics, should be embraced and welcomed wholeheartedly with open arms

 

---keep the videos coming

 

(have a good day everyone)