Please fix game balance

[Zero.3871]

What i have heard and would say over the years:

 

1 Solo roam

2 Duo roam

3-5 Roaming Group

6-10 Havoc

11-40 Zerg

41-60 Blob

61-80 Fullzone Blob

 

but i think somewhat subjective.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

> @"Zero.3871" said:

> What i have heard and would say over the years:

>

> 1 Solo roam

> 2 Duo roam

> 3-5 Roaming Group

> 6-10 Havoc

> 11-40 Zerg

> 41-60 Blob

> 61-80 Fullzone Blob

>

> but i think somewhat subjective.

 

I would agree with this list.

For the last tier, I've heard people call it a "map queue" more often.

Like people will go: "WTF XXX server brought a full map queue with golems to our keep!"

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"gebrechen.5643" said:

> > > In any case it doesn't say much about the balancing of the game. That's what the numbers are for.

> > And what does the numbers say? That there is 5x as many necros as there are thieves on a map, therefor necros are weak? Pros and cons in an RPG class system that gives certain classes advantages in certain situations. Thats how the game is played. Or are thieves also allowed to argue that they should be buffed in 1v1 **because** they are so much weaker in zerging than necro?

>

> Do not compare necro to thief. Necro is a far better 1v1 and Zerg class than thief will ever be. Necro can duel and be one of two main contributors to zergs,the other being fb, they just don’t make good Roamer due to mobility issues

 

Yeah you can duel on necro. But why would you want to loose 85% of the duels just because you're playing necro?

 

And also thief got its place in zergs. Not in the zerg groups but outside of it. Playing staff thief, rampaging in enemy backline.

 

Or in guildgroups. In good gvg-guilds there's always a thief.

[Shroud.2307]

> @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> > @"Zero.3871" said:

> > What i have heard and would say over the years:

> >

> > 1 Solo roam

> > 2 Duo roam

> > 3-5 Roaming Group

> > 6-10 Havoc

> > 11-40 Zerg

> > 41-60 Blob

> > 61-80 Fullzone Blob

> >

> > but i think somewhat subjective.

>

> I would agree with this list.

> For the last tier, I've heard people call it a "map queue" more often.

> Like people will go: "kitten XXX server brought a full map queue with golems to our keep!"

 

I like to call it an omni-blob. Or when multiple guilds (15 - 20 each) are in the same zerg it's a voltron.

[Mr Wipe of Scrubs.6491]

. .

[MUDse.7623]

wow even hiding your primary keybinds!

 

obviously both have to be squishy. we only discuss extreme cases in the forums.

[Mr Wipe of Scrubs.6491]

. .

[Burnfall.9573]

'Is it Time for Guild Wars 3?'

 

'What Are We Even Doing?

 

'In my previous articles, I’ve helped new players get back into Guild Wars 2 with articles explaining some of the mechanics of the game in a solemn attempt to preclude the dreaded MMO Return Burn that happens when players come back to a game and have no idea what is going on. Unfortunately for a lot of Guild Wars 2 players, this is common place. So much has changed from the initial launch, ranging from the way damage is dealt, to the way enemies are killed, and especially the way classes are built.

 

Sure, items may seem like a minor annoyance to new players trying to find their place, but this cascades across the entirety of the community, and it’s symptomatic of a host of problems that Guild Wars 2 has. Simply put, the game that has been building for over half a decade has had so many updates, changes, and additions, but they have been made in ways to show players that they could do them, without little thought on whether they should do them.

 

For example, long ago, the entire class system was changed from allowing bits and pieces of different trait lines to be utilized for a single overarching build, to a system that pigeon holes you into 3 specific trait lines. This was compounded when new specializations were created in lieu of introducing new classes. Those specializations would eventually lock a player into a sub class, taking the place of an entire trait line. While some arguments could be made that the streamlining of these classes and specializations was for ease of use and balance, from my estimation, the prevalent train of thought by many is that these classes have obscured the balance entirely, and every change to right the ship has done as much harm as it has good.

 

Could you imagine what ArenaNet could do if they didn’t have to continue trying to fix a mess of their own design and start fresh with a system that doesn’t try to wedge new subclasses into already established classes with fleshed out trait lines? As people continue to clamor for Dervishes and Monks from Guild Wars 1, with each new attempt at creating a specialization, they are forced to go back and rebalance the underlying profession, which many times doesn’t happen, and leads to severe imbalances.'

 

https://www.mmorpg.com/guild-wars-2/columns/is-it-time-for-guild-wars-3-1000013321

 

'

 

[Xtinct.7031]

Didn't we have a whole thread devoted to talking about how LB soulbeast was broken in wvw? You might be asking yourself why are we still seeing these threads?

For real tho, soulbeast and mirage are broken in wvw right now. Anet needs to take a serious look at both of these spec's and how they are being used in small scale wvw fights.

[Mr Wipe of Scrubs.6491]

. .

[apharma.3741]

> @"Xtinct.7031" said:

> Didn't we have a whole thread devoted to talking about how LB soulbeast was broken in wvw? You might be asking yourself why are we still seeing these threads?

> For real tho, soulbeast and mirage are broken in wvw right now. Anet needs to take a serious look at both of these spec's and how they are being used in small scale wvw fights.

 

While they're at it can they look into transferring some of the PvP nerfs to druid over to WvW? Can still stealth and reset every 10s.

[juno.1840]

> @"Mr Wipe of Scrubs.6491" said:

> Yeah if ANet nerf soulbeast to kitten just because of it being OP in small scale fights, idk what would I do with a soulbeast when I fight outnumbered anymore :)

>

> Soulbeast is pure worthless when you are outnumbered by your enemies with the amount of reflects from Firebrands/ warrior's WoD/ Mesmer's feedback.

>

> Depending on the build you run you only have 1 - 3 unblockable. Without unblockable and outnumbered you cant hit nothing at all.

>

> Well go ahead and nerf the dmg actually, just give me more unblockable lul, I'd rather have more unblockable hits than attacks that cant even hit at all.

 

noty -- unblockable is bad for the game, especially when skills exist that cannot be fully evaded with a single dodge.

 

Using reflects is an active form of play. The game needs more active skills and less passive skills.

 

I think what you should ask for are some non-projectile options.

[LordEnki.9283]

It's really bad. Damage is through the roof and half the classes are viable anymore. A lot problem is they don't balance for WvW most of the time. If they separate skills it's between pve and spvp and we get stuck on one side or the other.

[Shadowcat.2680]

> @"juno.1840" said:

> > @"Mr Wipe of Scrubs.6491" said:

> > Yeah if ANet nerf soulbeast to kitten just because of it being OP in small scale fights, idk what would I do with a soulbeast when I fight outnumbered anymore :)

> >

> > Soulbeast is pure worthless when you are outnumbered by your enemies with the amount of reflects from Firebrands/ warrior's WoD/ Mesmer's feedback.

> >

> > Depending on the build you run you only have 1 - 3 unblockable. Without unblockable and outnumbered you cant hit nothing at all.

> >

> > Well go ahead and nerf the dmg actually, just give me more unblockable lul, I'd rather have more unblockable hits than attacks that cant even hit at all.

>

> noty -- unblockable is bad for the game, especially when skills exist that cannot be fully evaded with a single dodge.

>

> Using reflects is an active form of play. The game needs more active skills and less passive skills.

>

> I think what you should ask for are some non-projectile options.

 

I don't know that I'd call spamming 3 off cd in the courage tome "active play."

[Mr Wipe of Scrubs.6491]

. .

[gebrechen.5643]

Wow skills exist that cant be evaded with a single dodge ?, yes please fix meteor then because I cant fully evade meteor with 1 dodge, cause 24 hits with a full cast

You can evade meteor with a single dodge. You can even walk out of it.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"gebrechen.5643" said:

> You can evade meteor with a single dodge. You can even walk out of it.

There is no way to dodge through a meteor shower end to end with a single dodge. Dodge is 300 units - meteor shower has a 360 unit radius. You wont even get halfway through the full shower area on a single dodge. Each impact also has a 180 radius, meaning *you cant even dodge through a single meteor impact in the worst case scenario* (beginning the dodge at the edge of the impact). Technically its even worse than that since the impact can hit the edge of the shower radius, ie maximum distance and managing an impact at the beginning and end would be 1080 units needed to be traveled with a 300 unit dodge.

 

So please, do tell how you can evade a meteor with a single dodge or walk out of it.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"aspirine.6852" said:

> I think scaling down the damage in WvW a bit would make for more longer lasting fights. But it would also be needed to cut back on the healing a lot.

 

Imo single damage on this game is fine, theres alot of counter to it, they need to reduce the aoe and cleaves.. that's what unskilled players dont want tho.

Some cleave skills actually need to be single target...

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> > Rather than put the blame on soulbeasts, I guess the most culpable factor is the necro's lack of mobility, not just to run, but to catch opponents.

> >

> > The most obvious opponent that exploits a necro's lack of mobility is a Soulbeast.

> > I've met soulbeasts who longbows you from far with knockback and rapid fire. Then when it doesnt kill you, they **turn around and run away from you** until their longbow cooldown is ready again then they turn back and try to knockback and rapid fire you again. Rinse and repeat until you die because even if you try to run in the opposite direction yourself, you can't outrun a soulbeast. Your only hope is LOS in the area that you can use, which isn't always available in WvW.

> >

> > The sad thing is, this sort of skill-less gameplay employed by soulbeasts works on a necro and only a necro because there is almost nothing we can do to close the gap apart from some situational jukes which I will not post here because I still use them to kill less experienced soulbeasts who employ the above cheap tactics, and is the perfect example of the terrible lack of mobility on a necromancer.

>

> This,so much this!^

 

That only works on 1vs1 on larger groups the ranger classes cant do much, due sustain of scourge and boon speed from other classes, if the scourge side is builded for sustain the other group wont have much chance, all they will be hitting will be barrier, and being opressed by the broken aoe spam wvw is about, unless they bail out.

 

if 2 groups of same size fight, will win the one that has less/none rangers and more scourges...

Scourges stacked with cheese builds can be a movable wall of barrier and condi damage, tdlr thats most what is needed actually to achieve overperformance w/o any kind of effort and poor or almost none sacrifice on the build itself.

 

Scourge movement is a aceptable excuse only when on 1vs1 or very small skirmishes...like 5vs5... on bigger groups it's totally different.

[Mr Wipe of Scrubs.6491]

. .

[juno.1840]

> @"Mr Wipe of Scrubs.6491" said:

> Wow skills exist that cant be evaded with a single dodge ?, yes please fix meteor then because I cant fully evade meteor with 1 dodge, cause 24 hits with a full cast :scream:.

> Same for rapid fire cause 10 hits, people dodge once and I still hit them 1-3 times :cry:.

>

 

 

Meteor shower is RNG. It has a large radius but you can walk through the entire thing and sometimes not get hit. The meteors fall in a random pattern hitting a small AoE circle each. The length of the cast determines how long the shower lasts and how many meteors fall.

 

In addition to simply walking out of the circle, you can dodge, or use blocks (i.e. aegis).

 

I'm not sure what point you're trying to prove.

[Mr Wipe of Scrubs.6491]

. .

[gebrechen.5643]

> @"Mr Wipe of Scrubs.6491" said:

> > @"gebrechen.5643" said:

> > You can evade meteor with a single dodge. You can even walk out of it.

>

> Wow all the eles that used meteor on you must've casted it with the edge of the circle on you and you've never once been in the middle.

 

I really don't want to question your intelligence, but if you are getting hit by a meteor outside of a zerg situation you must be terrible slow at reaction times or afk. You can even watch the ele start casting and if you still fail to move your character it is still enough time to press your dodge key without getting hit.

 

That's a complete different story when it comes to soul beasts, that can hit you out of stealth, on above 2000 range, with an unblockable shot that is not fully avoidable even when dodging. Your only hope is the broken line of sight which almost never happens on most wvw maps.

 

 

[Mr Wipe of Scrubs.6491]

. .

[lodjur.1284]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @"aspirine.6852" said:

> > I think scaling down the damage in WvW a bit would make for more longer lasting fights. But it would also be needed to cut back on the healing a lot.

>

> Imo single damage on this game is fine, theres alot of counter to it, they need to reduce the aoe and cleaves.. that's what unskilled players dont want tho.

> Some cleave skills actually need to be single target...

 

 

But AoE skills are only good versus people who stack, otherwise they function just like single target ones...

 

The things that make brainless zerging so effective are downstate and AoE caps, nerfing AoEs would make buff both stacking and the downstate.

 

Something about the narrative you're trying to push just doesn't add up.