To Anet: When are you deleting thief?

[kop.8724]

Anet, when are you stoping to nerf deadeye?

 

This year you have ruined the thief.

 

you have reduced furtivity time

 

You have broken thief roaming with senti detection

 

Now you are destroying his gameplay to turn death judgement blockable.... because so many classes have block skills, returning damages back.

 

Well, I have to say, you can erase this class next patcch.

 

[MUDse.7623]

before anyone wonders

> @"kop.8724" said:

> furtivity

= stealth

 

i dont think we deadeyes are in such a bad spot for roaming that we need to discuss deleting it.

 

[Alatar.7364]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> before anyone wonders

> > @"kop.8724" said:

> > furtivity

> = stealth

>

 

Thank you.

 

 

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

To be honest I think deadeyes are in a fairly strong spot at the moment. Maybe try some other builds that aren't so dependant on stealth?

[whoknocks.4935]

They actually nerfed more core and daredevil more than deadeye... which is the brainless build of all thief builds have, even before condi thief.

 

Now seeing lot of condi deadeyes as well while roaming, pretty cancer if you ask me.

[El Psy Congroo.7965]

Deadeye is fine, I for once would like to see some changes to core thief or at least some new viable builds, the fact that d/p and s/d keep being the only viable builds since like 5 years is boring :/

[getalifeturd.8139]

Someone has to be Arenanet's punching bag.

[Alatar.7364]

> @"El Psy Congroo.7965" said:

> the fact that d/p and s/d keep being the only viable builds since like 5 years is boring :/

 

Uhm what?

S/D became viable **only** after the FS, LS and SE changes it was never meta before. It's in meta for a little bit over one year now, only D/Ps been there forever as **literally the only viable build** until Sword changes and S/D Condi.

[El Psy Congroo.7965]

> @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > @"El Psy Congroo.7965" said:

> > the fact that d/p and s/d keep being the only viable builds since like 5 years is boring :/

>

> Uhm what?

> S/D became viable **only** after the FS, LS and SE changes it was never meta before. It's in meta for a little bit over one year now, only D/Ps been there forever as **literally the only viable build** until Sword changes and S/D Condi.

 

Over a year? What do you mean I remember seeing S/D way before that.

Edit: Yep just search thief s/d on youtube, you'll find a bunch of videos from 2015 from the (then) popular thief youtubers.

[SteepledHat.1345]

Just play rev. It's the new thief.

[Alatar.7364]

> @"El Psy Congroo.7965" said:

> > @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > > @"El Psy Congroo.7965" said:

> > > the fact that d/p and s/d keep being the only viable builds since like 5 years is boring :/

> >

> > Uhm what?

> > S/D became viable **only** after the FS, LS and SE changes it was never meta before. It's in meta for a little bit over one year now, only D/Ps been there forever as **literally the only viable build** until Sword changes and S/D Condi.

>

> Over a year? What do you mean I remember seeing S/D way before that.

> Edit: Yep just search thief s/d on youtube, you'll find a bunch of videos from 2015 from the (then) popular thief youtubers.

 

There were also people running Staff with UC and other builds like that, they **existed**, they were "doable", but by miles not even close to meta. There was literally only one S/D build regarding conquest before the rework, was almost never used except by people bored of D/P as, opposed to d/p, it was pretty much useless.

Before the rework of mentioned traits you would barely ever see any non-d/p.

 

EDIT: of course there was the time of S/D Condition, but that was short time abuse, not really meta as per say.

[Ario.8964]

DE itself ruined the thief class. It introduced a stupid gimmick that carries sub-par players by allowing them to camp stealth and then one shot players. It should never have been implemented into the game in the first place.

 

DE aside, anet has clearly shown a lack of understanding in how the thief class functions and too often gives into complaints from the community that are ill-founded. Even just looking at s/d, it used to be an incredibly high skill build with many interesting mechanics and hidden tricks. You could jump cast with sword 2 to play more aggressively with the sacrifice of a safety port, you used to be able to pre- load LS for bursts at the cost of sacrificing an evade in combat if you got caught out. The set had lots of evades built in but it had very little sustain, and incredibly low condi removal so dodging everything was mandatory and showed off good thief play.

 

Now 3 is unblockable spam, 2 has 0 depth to the skill, and the acrobatics line has been changed into a safety net for people who can't dodge things properly (instant reflexes). Not to mention senseless gutting of stealth skills by introducing a cd because people couldn't block once and get a free kill on a thief, d/p 5 getting a larger interval of blind pulses because people couldn't kill a thief by standing still and AAing it, reveal going to 4 seconds in pvp because players couldn't do something as simple as ccing the thief within 3 seconds. The list goes on but the point I'm making is: anet doesn't understand thief, and made poor decisions with handling it's balance due to bad players complaining about it because it wasn't a free win. Thief is now either a gimmick from DE or a shadow of a it's formerly interesting self.

 

But hey, at least we can run away and go decap...

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

> @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > @"El Psy Congroo.7965" said:

> > the fact that d/p and s/d keep being the only viable builds since like 5 years is boring :/

>

> Uhm what?

> S/D became viable **only** after the FS, LS and SE changes it was never meta before. It's in meta for a little bit over one year now, only D/Ps been there forever as **literally the only viable build** until Sword changes and S/D Condi.

 

You must not have played around Launch, for the first 8-12 months of Gw2 S/D was meta along side D/P, it received some nerfs, and then they nerfed Acro and S/D more and it’s fell out of favor when HoT was getting ready to be released.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

What I find really funny is in wvw how a mesmer or ranger can literally keep up with u when u try and run and will just tear u apart,mobility has been handed out soo much that thief is barely ahead,with everything those classes have,yea that’s balance

[kash.9213]

> @"Ario.8964" said:

> **DE itself ruined the thief class**. It introduced a stupid gimmick that carries sub-par players by allowing them to camp stealth and then one shot players. It should never have been implemented into the game in the first place.

>

> DE aside, anet has clearly shown a lack of understanding in how the thief class functions and too often gives into complaints from the community that are ill-founded. Even just looking at s/d, it used to be an incredibly high skill build with many interesting mechanics and hidden tricks. You could jump cast with sword 2 to play more aggressively with the sacrifice of a safety port, you used to be able to pre- load LS for bursts at the cost of sacrificing an evade in combat if you got caught out. The set had lots of evades built in but it had very little sustain, and incredibly low condi removal so dodging everything was mandatory and showed off good thief play.

>

> Now 3 is unblockable spam, 2 has 0 depth to the skill, and the acrobatics line has been changed into a safety net for people who can't dodge things properly (instant reflexes). Not to mention senseless gutting of stealth skills by introducing a cd because people couldn't block once and get a free kill on a thief, d/p 5 getting a larger interval of blind pulses because people couldn't kill a thief by standing still and AAing it, reveal going to 4 seconds in pvp because players couldn't do something as simple as ccing the thief within 3 seconds. The list goes on but the point I'm making is: anet doesn't understand thief, and made poor decisions with handling it's balance due to bad players complaining about it because it wasn't a free win. Thief is now either a gimmick from DE or a shadow of a it's formerly interesting self.

>

> But hey, at least we can run away and go decap...

 

I agree with the rest of that, but DE hasn't ruined the thief class. The elite has introduced some problems, mostly through it's changes after it's launch due to complaints and overreactions to mechanics that weren't actually a problem but not well understood, so now they all get to fuck around with our stealth so those players can chew on that for awhile. Apart from the frantic stealth mess the rest of DE elite is well designed and fun to play and though the variety in builds has been reduced over it's last couple of changes, there's still some choice there. Sub-par players don't live long enough to cause people to complain about them and good players aren't camping stealth, people them stealth while fighting and lump them in with all the cannon fodder hopping around with stealth who aren't a threa because, thief, and that's what people harp on.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Literally players just hop up and down messing around in a group of four enemies that have to chase around and take forever to kill,and almost take out all 4 players kitten ridiculous

[Alatar.7364]

> @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > > @"El Psy Congroo.7965" said:

> > > the fact that d/p and s/d keep being the only viable builds since like 5 years is boring :/

> >

> > Uhm what?

> > S/D became viable **only** after the FS, LS and SE changes it was never meta before. It's in meta for a little bit over one year now, only D/Ps been there forever as **literally the only viable build** until Sword changes and S/D Condi.

>

> You must not have played around Launch, for the first 8-12 months of Gw2 S/D was meta along side D/P, it received some nerfs, and then they nerfed Acro and S/D more and it’s fell out of favor when HoT was getting ready to be released.

 

Around launch power D/D was meta (along with entire thief spec) due to issues with Cloak and Dagger at start.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

 

> @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > > @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > > > @"El Psy Congroo.7965" said:

> > > > the fact that d/p and s/d keep being the only viable builds since like 5 years is boring :/

> > >

> > > Uhm what?

> > > S/D became viable **only** after the FS, LS and SE changes it was never meta before. It's in meta for a little bit over one year now, only D/Ps been there forever as **literally the only viable build** until Sword changes and S/D Condi.

> >

> > You must not have played around Launch, for the first 8-12 months of Gw2 S/D was meta along side D/P, it received some nerfs, and then they nerfed Acro and S/D more and it’s fell out of favor when HoT was getting ready to be released.

>

> Around launch power D/D was meta (along with entire thief spec) due to issues with Cloak and Dagger at start.

 

S/D was also Meta, it only stopped being meta shortly before HoT. And D/D was only meta the first 4-6months after launch, after that it’s was a one shot meme build.

[Ario.8964]

> @"kash.9213" said:

> > @"Ario.8964" said:

> > **DE itself ruined the thief class**. It introduced a stupid gimmick that carries sub-par players by allowing them to camp stealth and then one shot players. It should never have been implemented into the game in the first place.

> >

> > DE aside, anet has clearly shown a lack of understanding in how the thief class functions and too often gives into complaints from the community that are ill-founded. Even just looking at s/d, it used to be an incredibly high skill build with many interesting mechanics and hidden tricks. You could jump cast with sword 2 to play more aggressively with the sacrifice of a safety port, you used to be able to pre- load LS for bursts at the cost of sacrificing an evade in combat if you got caught out. The set had lots of evades built in but it had very little sustain, and incredibly low condi removal so dodging everything was mandatory and showed off good thief play.

> >

> > Now 3 is unblockable spam, 2 has 0 depth to the skill, and the acrobatics line has been changed into a safety net for people who can't dodge things properly (instant reflexes). Not to mention senseless gutting of stealth skills by introducing a cd because people couldn't block once and get a free kill on a thief, d/p 5 getting a larger interval of blind pulses because people couldn't kill a thief by standing still and AAing it, reveal going to 4 seconds in pvp because players couldn't do something as simple as ccing the thief within 3 seconds. The list goes on but the point I'm making is: anet doesn't understand thief, and made poor decisions with handling it's balance due to bad players complaining about it because it wasn't a free win. Thief is now either a gimmick from DE or a shadow of a it's formerly interesting self.

> >

> > But hey, at least we can run away and go decap...

>

> I agree with the rest of that, but DE hasn't ruined the thief class. The elite has introduced some problems, mostly through it's changes after it's launch due to complaints and overreactions to mechanics that weren't actually a problem but not well understood, so now they all get to kitten around with our stealth so those players can chew on that for awhile. Apart from the frantic stealth mess the rest of DE elite is well designed and fun to play and though the variety in builds has been reduced over it's last couple of changes, there's still some choice there. Sub-par players don't live long enough to cause people to complain about them and good players aren't camping stealth, people them stealth while fighting and lump them in with all the cannon fodder hopping around with stealth who aren't a threa because, thief, and that's what people harp on.

 

DE play is some of the most boring to watch/play against imo. Stealth on dodge should never have been a thing (bound through blind fields is fine because there's counterplay to it, not just free stealth), mark allows people to build malice even when the mark itself is dodged (eliminates all need to properly time it), and the fact that they can burst you for obscene amounts of damage from stealth and from range (this not only includes DJ, but rifle 3 as well) leads me to disagree with the notion that DE is well designed. It is very stagnant gameplay and is reflective of a lack of thought put in for how it interacts with other mechanics in the game. That being said, I think if certain aspects were changed (mainly the first two things I mentioned) I could see DE developing into a cool style that would open up some ranged pressure options for thief outside of stealth and attempt a 1 shot over and over until the target dies or you get 1 shot by someone else before you re-stealth.

[kash.9213]

> @"Ario.8964" said:

> > @"kash.9213" said:

> > > @"Ario.8964" said:

> > > **DE itself ruined the thief class**. It introduced a stupid gimmick that carries sub-par players by allowing them to camp stealth and then one shot players. It should never have been implemented into the game in the first place.

> > >

> > > DE aside, anet has clearly shown a lack of understanding in how the thief class functions and too often gives into complaints from the community that are ill-founded. Even just looking at s/d, it used to be an incredibly high skill build with many interesting mechanics and hidden tricks. You could jump cast with sword 2 to play more aggressively with the sacrifice of a safety port, you used to be able to pre- load LS for bursts at the cost of sacrificing an evade in combat if you got caught out. The set had lots of evades built in but it had very little sustain, and incredibly low condi removal so dodging everything was mandatory and showed off good thief play.

> > >

> > > Now 3 is unblockable spam, 2 has 0 depth to the skill, and the acrobatics line has been changed into a safety net for people who can't dodge things properly (instant reflexes). Not to mention senseless gutting of stealth skills by introducing a cd because people couldn't block once and get a free kill on a thief, d/p 5 getting a larger interval of blind pulses because people couldn't kill a thief by standing still and AAing it, reveal going to 4 seconds in pvp because players couldn't do something as simple as ccing the thief within 3 seconds. The list goes on but the point I'm making is: anet doesn't understand thief, and made poor decisions with handling it's balance due to bad players complaining about it because it wasn't a free win. Thief is now either a gimmick from DE or a shadow of a it's formerly interesting self.

> > >

> > > But hey, at least we can run away and go decap...

> >

> > I agree with the rest of that, but DE hasn't ruined the thief class. The elite has introduced some problems, mostly through it's changes after it's launch due to complaints and overreactions to mechanics that weren't actually a problem but not well understood, so now they all get to kitten around with our stealth so those players can chew on that for awhile. Apart from the frantic stealth mess the rest of DE elite is well designed and fun to play and though the variety in builds has been reduced over it's last couple of changes, there's still some choice there. Sub-par players don't live long enough to cause people to complain about them and good players aren't camping stealth, people them stealth while fighting and lump them in with all the cannon fodder hopping around with stealth who aren't a threa because, thief, and that's what people harp on.

>

> DE play is some of the most boring to watch/play against imo. Stealth on dodge should never have been a thing (bound through blind fields is fine because there's counterplay to it, not just free stealth), mark allows people to build malice even when the mark itself is dodged (eliminates all need to properly time it), and the fact that they can burst you for obscene amounts of damage from stealth and from range (this not only includes DJ, but rifle 3 as well) leads me to disagree with the notion that DE is well designed. It is very stagnant gameplay and is reflective of a lack of thought put in for how it interacts with other mechanics in the game. That being said, I think if certain aspects were changed (mainly the first two things I mentioned) I could see DE developing into a cool style that would open up some ranged pressure options for thief outside of stealth and attempt a 1 shot over and over until the target dies or you get 1 shot by someone else before you re-stealth.

 

..... Like I said, aside from "stealth mess" or stealth on dodge, DE is designed well and original DE was even better. Because you found it boring doesn't mean is was designed poorly or Anet would drop you a line before each launch.

 

If the DE can't build malice then one dodge shuts down the whole fight, have fun playing against a DE who does nothing but burst and reset.

 

An obscene amount of damage usually means an obscene lack of defense and from range should mean they'll be up against line of site, obstruction, dodge, etc. It's up close you need to worry about, and worry just as much if not more about staff DD's. I won't do as much damage as you're expecting, but I'll take those boons from you and load up quick with modifiers from interrupts and other pulling/control opening actions dismantling you and probably dropping you pretty quick without messing around in stealth giving you more chances and if I don't drop you in those first 4 seconds or so you're build probably isn't getting 'one shot' by "obscene amounts of damage" either.

 

With Kneel skills, Death's Retreat, Snipers Cover, and most of the kit you should never have any down time while providing support and opportune offense and control not to mention the game play of cover and move for you squad is awesome and the whole kit together doesn't get enough credit.

 

I'd prefer original DE build but with Snipers Cover in there someplace but there's nothing stagnant about the game play if you're actually playing it currently either.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

To be honest, I play S/P DE the same way I played S/P DD and core, build tanky so I'm hard enough to kill that I can run around in circles til people get bored chasing me, wait for one guy to get caught on his own, and then kill him and dance on his corpse. Rinse and repeat.

 

Sure, the DE stealth build is pretty bad for the game. So is the core S/D build abusing instant reflexes and improv with daggerstorm (literally no skill required playing that sometimes). It's all cheese at the end of the day, just pick your flavour.

[Turk.5460]

I got bored of DE and I'm having great fun in WvW with a throwback build - S/D Condi Daredevil. Just a Venom/Infiltrator's Strike/Steal/Dodge combo will leave your target ticking at 1/4 of their healthbar. It's only escape is SS/Shortbow though, which is enough for WvW roaming.

[El Psy Congroo.7965]

> @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > @"El Psy Congroo.7965" said:

> > > @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > > > @"El Psy Congroo.7965" said:

> > > > the fact that d/p and s/d keep being the only viable builds since like 5 years is boring :/

> > >

> > > Uhm what?

> > > S/D became viable **only** after the FS, LS and SE changes it was never meta before. It's in meta for a little bit over one year now, only D/Ps been there forever as **literally the only viable build** until Sword changes and S/D Condi.

> >

> > Over a year? What do you mean I remember seeing S/D way before that.

> > Edit: Yep just search thief s/d on youtube, you'll find a bunch of videos from 2015 from the (then) popular thief youtubers.

>

> There were also people running Staff with UC and other builds like that, they **existed**, they were "doable", but by miles not even close to meta. There was literally only one S/D build regarding conquest before the rework, was almost never used except by people bored of D/P as, opposed to d/p, it was pretty much useless.

> Before the rework of mentioned traits you would barely ever see any non-d/p.

>

> EDIT: of course there was the time of S/D Condition, but that was short time abuse, not really meta as per say.

 

Hmm I remember seeing either Orange Logo or The Abjured using an S/d thief on tournament, maybe it was a short abuse or maybe I'm just mixing memories. Any ways, S/d has still being used for a long time and of course way more than any DD or DE build.

[Alatar.7364]

> @"El Psy Congroo.7965" said:

> > @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > > @"El Psy Congroo.7965" said:

> > > > @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > > > > @"El Psy Congroo.7965" said:

> > > > > the fact that d/p and s/d keep being the only viable builds since like 5 years is boring :/

> > > >

> > > > Uhm what?

> > > > S/D became viable **only** after the FS, LS and SE changes it was never meta before. It's in meta for a little bit over one year now, only D/Ps been there forever as **literally the only viable build** until Sword changes and S/D Condi.

> > >

> > > Over a year? What do you mean I remember seeing S/D way before that.

> > > Edit: Yep just search thief s/d on youtube, you'll find a bunch of videos from 2015 from the (then) popular thief youtubers.

> >

> > There were also people running Staff with UC and other builds like that, they **existed**, they were "doable", but by miles not even close to meta. There was literally only one S/D build regarding conquest before the rework, was almost never used except by people bored of D/P as, opposed to d/p, it was pretty much useless.

> > Before the rework of mentioned traits you would barely ever see any non-d/p.

> >

> > EDIT: of course there was the time of S/D Condition, but that was short time abuse, not really meta as per say.

>

> S/d has still being used for a long time and of course way more than any DD or DE build.

 

DD d/p has been meta for **much** longer than S/D ever was and as such was used ten times over the amount of S/D. DD is also the same build as d/p was since 5 years ago or so, it only dropped SA for DD.

I still see more DEs than any other thief build.

 

 

[TorQ.7041]

> @"Ario.8964" said:

> DE itself ruined the thief class. It introduced a stupid gimmick that carries sub-par players by allowing them to camp stealth and then one shot players. It should never have been implemented into the game in the first place.

>

> DE aside, anet has clearly shown a lack of understanding in how the thief class functions and too often gives into complaints from the community that are ill-founded. Even just looking at s/d, it used to be an incredibly high skill build with many interesting mechanics and hidden tricks. You could jump cast with sword 2 to play more aggressively with the sacrifice of a safety port, you used to be able to pre- load LS for bursts at the cost of sacrificing an evade in combat if you got caught out. The set had lots of evades built in but it had very little sustain, and incredibly low condi removal so dodging everything was mandatory and showed off good thief play.

>

> Now 3 is unblockable spam, 2 has 0 depth to the skill, and the acrobatics line has been changed into a safety net for people who can't dodge things properly (instant reflexes). Not to mention senseless gutting of stealth skills by introducing a cd because people couldn't block once and get a free kill on a thief, d/p 5 getting a larger interval of blind pulses because people couldn't kill a thief by standing still and AAing it, reveal going to 4 seconds in pvp because players couldn't do something as simple as ccing the thief within 3 seconds. The list goes on but the point I'm making is: anet doesn't understand thief, and made poor decisions with handling it's balance due to bad players complaining about it because it wasn't a free win. Thief is now either a gimmick from DE or a shadow of a it's formerly interesting self.

>

> But hey, at least we can run away and go decap...

 

For one a good DE build doesn't have true perma stealth else. 2. If you are getting one shotted... That's really your own problem if you cant dodge a dot on your head with a sound and a giant laser beam pointed at you which is now blockable. Then really you just didn't learn game mechanics.

 

Carry players lol. Carry them to silver? Cos u really don't see many DEs around