Teamwork rewarded over skill?

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

> @"Palador.2170" said:

> So, is this about wanting harder single player content? Or is this really about wanting exclusive rewards?

>

> To be honest, this sounds like what the "we want raids" crowd used to say. "Give us the content we want! And then, you have to give us special rewards for doing it!" No. The content should be reward enough. If you need some bright and shiny pixel toy to show the world what a special snowflake you are, then it's not about the game at all. Content most people can't finish means content most people are not enjoying, and if everyone finishes it then the rewards are hardly the exclusive items you want.

 

Wanting difficult single player content that is properly rewarded so there is incentive to do it.

 

Making the content difficult also makes the reward exclusive.

 

Making the content difficult based on an individual's skill, is the purest test in the video game world. Thus the reward is then a reflection of this skill as is its exclusivity.

 

Having a reward that is rare and highly coveted, encourages play and improvement in this implemented difficult single player content, opening the way for more content of this genre in gw2. Having treasure in the game that is hard to obtain generates value and thus more people playing longer to improve their skills in order to obtain said rare item. Thus more hours of people playing gw2 in general.

 

 

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Palador.2170" said:

> So, is this about wanting harder single player content? Or is this really about wanting exclusive rewards?

>

> To be honest, this sounds like what the "we want raids" crowd used to say. "Give us the content we want! And then, you have to give us special rewards for doing it!" No. The content should be reward enough. If you need some bright and shiny pixel toy to show the world what a special snowflake you are, then it's not about the game at all. Content most people can't finish means content most people are not enjoying, and if everyone finishes it then the rewards are hardly the exclusive items you want.

 

It's a bit of a ruse; you can be assured that if the harder single content was implemented and rewarded with the same kind of loot already available in the game ... it would still be a problem for the OP. It's not about the satisfaction of completing harder content; it's about the prestige associated with doing it. In otherwords, showing off.

 

I can't support any idea that would force a situation in an MMO into a single player RPG. Too little payback for too much work. It's just not the market that plays this game.

 

 

[Palador.2170]

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> Wanting difficult single player content that is properly rewarded so there is incentive to do it.

Or, and this is just a thought, content that is FUN TO PLAY should be added instead. Easy or hard, as long as it's fun. If you need some prize at the end to goad you into doing it, then is it really something you want to be doing?

 

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> It's a bit of a ruse; you can be assured that if the harder single content was implemented and rewarded with the same kind of loot already available in the game ... it would be a problem for the OP.

Yeah, I know.

[Edelweiss.4261]

I like this game because its base systems reward cooperation more than any other mmo. If you seek difficulty, other games will suite you better. If you seek to be special, then maybe you'd prefer single player. They've already locked content between the watching-paint-dry that is raiding. I think that is more than enough.

[Gop.8713]

I would be in favor of challenging individual content and neutral towards offering rewards for such content, but opposed to offering exclusive rewards . . .

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

Why does it feel like those opposed to an exclusive reward for said hard solo content, oppose it because they dont posses the skill to obtain it if it was implemented. In a game like fashion wars its 99% showing off, especially in an mmo. If everyone can get every item because its easy then where is the novelty?

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"mauried.5608" said:

> Its an MMO, not a single player game.

> Far too much effort for Devs to develop single player content for a tiny subset of the player base.#

 

Actually, no. In [this thread](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/64100/suggestion-open-world-questing "this thread") I am asking for more real questing in GW2, like we have seen with the Caladbolg quest chain, the weapon design contest winners' quest chain, etc.

 

Even MMO's need something that makes the open world more interesting for each individual, as most people _are_ roaming the country solo _most of the time_, unless they are currently participating in events or requiring help in story missions (or doing dungeons, fractals, raids or WvW).

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> Why does it feel like those opposed to an exclusive reward for said hard solo content, oppose it because they dont posses the skill to obtain it if it was implemented. In a game like fashion wars its 99% showing off, especially in an mmo. If everyone can get every item because its easy then where is the novelty?

 

That is literally you reading into something which is based on your own perception.

 

**People are opposed to exclusive single player content because developing said content costs resources. Resources many feel could be devoted to a much larger crowd of the player base.**

 

As far as difficult solo content getting more attention compared to raids:

**Queen's Gauntlet solo fights**:

_The Blazing Light: 14.9% (this has been in game since 2013)

Kingslayer: 5.9%_

 

**Compared to raid completion over the years**:

_Beyond the Vale(W1B1 - Vale Guardian): 30%

Fire Extinguisher (W1B3 - Sabetha): 19.96%_

 

_Souled Out (W5B1 - Soulless Horro): 9.4%

What's Death May Never Die (W5B4 - Dhuum): 6.6%_

 

_A Thunderous Fall (W6B1 - Conjured Amalgamate): 7.4%

The Fire Djinn Extinguished (W6B3 - Qadim): 4.4%_

 

I'm not so sure your assumption that difficult solo content has this much a draw. If I had to take a guess, a vast majority of the people who complete the difficult solo content are the same people who also complete the difficult raid content (sort of spillover). While the vast majority of the remaining player base, which make no mistake is likely significantly bigger than either group (hard content solo and group enthusiast), has no interest in either content.

 

Seems to me like devoting developer resources to difficult solo content would only be for the already hardcore crowd and might not draw any or close to no additional players from the casual player base.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> As far as difficult solo content getting more attention compared to raids:

> **Queen's Gauntlet solo fights**:

> _The Blazing Light: 14.9% (this has been in game since 2013)

> Kingslayer: 5.9%_

 

I belong to the small 5.9%? :o I am feeling special now! ;) :p

 

Seriously, you can't compare duels to solo content in general. (Also, "_since_ 2013"? Remember that this was **not available** since 2014 and only re-introduced last summer. ;) )

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

If you want challenging single player content, why not play a challenging single player game? There's a strong market for this.

GW2 is an MMO and the devs only have so much bandwidth to work on so many things. They aren't going to prioritize lots of Liadri fights, when it can take the same resources as developing fun group fights (instanced or not).

 

I don't fault the OP for wanting or asking for this. I'm just surprised that they don't already realize it's unrealistic to expect it in _this_ game.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > As far as difficult solo content getting more attention compared to raids:

> > **Queen's Gauntlet solo fights**:

> > _The Blazing Light: 14.9% (this has been in game since 2013)

> > Kingslayer: 5.9%_

>

> I belong to the small 5.9%? :o I am feeling special now! ;) :p

>

> Seriously, you can't compare duels to solo content in general. (Also, "_since_ 2013"? Remember that this was **not available** since 2014 and only re-introduced last summer. ;) )

 

Actually, wasn't the Gauntlet available during the Queens Jubilee event which was in August 2013 (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Queen%27s_Jubilee). Yes the gauntlet was unavailable for a long time and was added back in years later with new fights. But I know Liadri was available in its first iteration, or am I mixing something up?

 

I agree on the duels part, I basically took the only real challenging solo content available. Which already says a lot about how much value Arenanet puts on very challenging solo content. Add in to this the lower rewards compared to raids and fractals and the disparity grows. Still gives enough concern that since they are not developing more content in this direction, this might not be the game for this type of content.

[phs.6089]

Why would they bother making solo content in MMO?

What is there for Arena to spend time and resources?

Show them the money they can earn by adding solo content.

 

Gauntlet was a sad content imo. Jut like any other solo content in any MMO i have seen so far.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > Why does it feel like those opposed to an exclusive reward for said hard solo content, oppose it because they dont posses the skill to obtain it if it was implemented. In a game like fashion wars its 99% showing off, especially in an mmo. If everyone can get every item because its easy then where is the novelty?

>

> That is literally you reading into something which is based on your own perception.

>

> **People are opposed to exclusive single player content because developing said content costs resources. Resources many feel could be devoted to a much larger crowd of the player base.**

>

> As far as difficult solo content getting more attention compared to raids:

> **Queen's Gauntlet solo fights**:

> _The Blazing Light: 14.9% (this has been in game since 2013)

> Kingslayer: 5.9%_

>

> **Compared to raid completion over the years**:

> _Beyond the Vale(W1B1 - Vale Guardian): 30%

> Fire Extinguisher (W1B3 - Sabetha): 19.96%_

>

> _Souled Out (W5B1 - Soulless Horro): 9.4%

> What's Death May Never Die (W5B4 - Dhuum): 6.6%_

>

> _A Thunderous Fall (W6B1 - Conjured Amalgamate): 7.4%

> The Fire Djinn Extinguished (W6B3 - Qadim): 4.4%_

>

> I'm not so sure your assumption that difficult solo content has this much a draw. If I had to take a guess, a vast majority of the people who complete the difficult solo content are the same people who also complete the difficult raid content (sort of spillover). While the vast majority of the remaining player base, which make no mistake is likely significantly bigger than either group (hard content solo and group enthusiast), has no interest in either content.

>

> Seems to me like devoting developer resources to difficult solo content would only be for the already hardcore crowd and might not draw any or close to no additional players from the casual player base.

 

They have yet to put a worthwhile reward to this content. A mini pet nobody uses doesn't count. How about making it harder and putting a legendary in there?

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> If you want challenging single player content, why not play a challenging single player game? There's a strong market for this.

> GW2 is an MMO and the devs only have so much bandwidth to work on so many things. They aren't going to prioritize lots of Liadri fights, when it can take the same resources as developing fun group fights (instanced or not).

>

> I don't fault the OP for wanting or asking for this. I'm just surprised that they don't already realize it's unrealistic to expect it in _this_ game.

 

I do play single player games, what's even more fun is an mmo where they have single player content that is very challenging and a matching rare/hard to obtain reward that you can show off to others. Makes the loot feel highly prized and significant compared to other loot, because it is a representation of your skill level and nothing else.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

Here's how this goes.

 

Players ask for/demand hard PvE content. While a few may not care about rewards, they're a small minority. So, the demand really is for the package deal.

 

ANet is a studio whose brain trust is friendly to good gamers (hardcore, elite, whatever term you care to use). So, they look at adding such content. However, the higher up the skill continuum they aim the content, the fewer players who will complete it. So, to make it cost effective to create the content, they tune it so it is at least doable/accessible to decent players as well.

 

So, the new content debuts. During the initial reactions, one group praises ANet for adding something challenging. This lasts for a variable amount of time, sometimes a few days, sometimes a few weeks, sometimes a bit longer. Then, that group starts complaining that the content is too easy. Of course, if the rewards didn't require repeat play, they got it and moved on to demanding something new and different, so the difficulty or lack thereof is moot..

 

Meanwhile, a different group complains because they find the content too hard, and they want the rewards. Often ANet holds firm to what is really a moderate challenge due to the accessibility issues. Sometimes, they nerf. Either way, some people are unhappy.

 

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

 

The moral of the story? If you are (or, think you are) among the top players in terms of skill, don't expect PvE challenge to test you to your limits once you get past the learning curve; or, often, from the beginning. It's not going to happen. I get the desire for such, but the reality is that ANet has to make money, as much as the long-time-gamer in management might want to scratch that itch.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > Why does it feel like those opposed to an exclusive reward for said hard solo content, oppose it because they dont posses the skill to obtain it if it was implemented. In a game like fashion wars its 99% showing off, especially in an mmo. If everyone can get every item because its easy then where is the novelty?

> >

> > That is literally you reading into something which is based on your own perception.

> >

> > **People are opposed to exclusive single player content because developing said content costs resources. Resources many feel could be devoted to a much larger crowd of the player base.**

> >

> > As far as difficult solo content getting more attention compared to raids:

> > **Queen's Gauntlet solo fights**:

> > _The Blazing Light: 14.9% (this has been in game since 2013)

> > Kingslayer: 5.9%_

> >

> > **Compared to raid completion over the years**:

> > _Beyond the Vale(W1B1 - Vale Guardian): 30%

> > Fire Extinguisher (W1B3 - Sabetha): 19.96%_

> >

> > _Souled Out (W5B1 - Soulless Horro): 9.4%

> > What's Death May Never Die (W5B4 - Dhuum): 6.6%_

> >

> > _A Thunderous Fall (W6B1 - Conjured Amalgamate): 7.4%

> > The Fire Djinn Extinguished (W6B3 - Qadim): 4.4%_

> >

> > I'm not so sure your assumption that difficult solo content has this much a draw. If I had to take a guess, a vast majority of the people who complete the difficult solo content are the same people who also complete the difficult raid content (sort of spillover). While the vast majority of the remaining player base, which make no mistake is likely significantly bigger than either group (hard content solo and group enthusiast), has no interest in either content.

> >

> > Seems to me like devoting developer resources to difficult solo content would only be for the already hardcore crowd and might not draw any or close to no additional players from the casual player base.

>

> They have yet to put a worthwhile reward to this content. A mini pet nobody uses doesn't count. How about making it harder and putting a legendary in there?

 

The content rewards exactly what you wanted:

- unique rewards in form of titles and minipets to show off

 

There will never be legendary gear for "difficult game play" ever in this game. If you still don't understand that legendary gear is tied to resource consumption and removal from the game, no amount of me explaining this to you will change this. Legendary gear (and to some extent sigil/rune and ascended gear) are meant to drain the game economy and encourage trade over the TP. AFK legendary armor from spvp is pretty much a dead give away.

 

You are playing the wrong game. Don't worry though, this thread will get closed after 3-4 pages again. You will again make a new thread about the exact same topic and the majority of responses will remain the exact same until:

- you either accept that this game does not cater to the difficult solo crowd

- get tired and leave

- Arenanets metrics and game data actually show and encourage this type of content development and they implement this (which is absolutely irrelevant to how many threads you create since they go by in game metrics of completed content)

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> Why does it feel like those opposed to an exclusive reward for said hard solo content, oppose it because they dont posses the skill to obtain it if it was implemented. In a game like fashion wars its 99% showing off, especially in an mmo. If everyone can get every item because its easy then where is the novelty?

 

Perhaps others are not pursuing content, rewards, etc because of its exclusivity, but rather because they like the item?

[Rasimir.6239]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > I already said a new difficult dungeon that can only be soloed. A very difficult jumping puzzle like mad kings clock tower but make it harder and throw in random elements and make it time sensitive. Or a very difficult rollerbeetle mount race that throws out hazards or random elements and has to be completed in a very tight window of time.

> In my opinion these suggestions would target such a small sub-set of the GW population such that ANet wouldn't see fit to spend resources toward them. However, if you are able to show enough player interest and enthusiasm, then they might.

>

> /me shrugs

>

Problem with that is, if it's something that interests enough players, it'll eventually be something that a considerable amount of players can do (as most will quickly lose said interest if they find the rewards out of their reach), which in turn makes the rewards too common to suit the thread opener.

 

[Randulf.7614]

Most of the concerns are already addressed here. Skill base for the game is so varied, it would be impossible to find something challenging enough that people would still complain is too easy. Players already complain that raids are too easy or too hard. I dont really see how the game will benefit from this overall even though i understand the ops thirst for it.

 

Id rather they catered for the all and use group instances for the niche challenges. I want the game to be more inclusive, not less

[Hitman.5829]

Yes, we need solo content. I am so tired of putting my trust, time and effort in others just so they screw up on the content.

For example: Today (1/3/19) I was playing fractals and my team kept dying on the last boss. In the end all of them forfeited and my precious time was lost because the noobs clicked on the door that takes you out to the main room.

 

I had placed my trust on these 4000 - 5000 level players and I regret it. And this is not the only time that it has happened to me!

[Angelweave.1856]

Great idea, would be awesome to make it happen. ESO did it and called the Maelstrom Arena.

It was super hard but the rewards make it worth farming, even with all the guides in the world and doing the same fights over and over again it was still a challenge.

I don't remember anyone saying it was a cake walk, it was a mission to finish even with check points.

[mauried.5608]

How about some challenging content with an outcome if you lose and a legendary weapon if you win.

One of the problems with all MMOs , is that there is no consequence for losing.

If your character dies, you just WP and your alive again.

If your gear is damaged, off to a repair station and your as good as new again.

Lets add some consequence for losing.

If you die, then your dead.

Your character is instantly deleted, any gold and / or items your character is carrying is lost.

You are free to create another Character at level 1 and try again when you get to LV 80.

Wonder why no one will be interested in this type of challenging content?

 

[lokh.2695]

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

 

> Tldr: Add in exclusive rewards which can only be obtained via an individual's skill.

 

The moment you add this, the forums will flare up with "nerf plox"-threads and the whine of thousands of players who want things for free and no effort. "This was marketed as a casual game and my understanding of casual is basically afk'ing and maybe autoattacking my way to victory" or "I work 60 hours per week and have 12 kids to take care of, my special circumstances in life make it so I only have 20min per month of playtime and this content doesn't cater to my own personal situation, though I paid full price for the game. Therefor I am entitled to every reward, pls nerf or make available for me as well...". I'm not saying that I personally would mind it, I'd like it if there was more rewarding/challenging solo content, but that used to didn't go well with the community in the past...

[Cristalyan.5728]

> @"lokh.2695" said:

> > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

>

> > Tldr: Add in exclusive rewards which can only be obtained via an individual's skill.

>

> The moment you add this, the forums will flare up with "nerf plox"-threads and the whine of thousands of players who want things for free and no effort. "This was marketed as a casual game and my understanding of casual is basically afk'ing and maybe autoattacking my way to victory" or "I work 60 hours per week and have 12 kids to take care of, my special circumstances in life make it so I only have 20min per month of playtime and this content doesn't cater to my own personal situation, though I paid full price for the game. Therefor I am entitled to every reward, pls nerf or make available for me as well...". I'm not saying that I personally would mind it, I'd like it if there was more rewarding/challenging solo content, but that used to didn't go well with the community in the past...

 

=) Dear ANet. I'm one of the 12 kids. Even if that person called "father" for the sake of tradition complains about his playing time, I - although being in the same family - have time to spend 60 hours per week playing GW2 and still having time to sleep, eat and play other games. Even if I have reasons to complain (The parents don't buy me the latest gaming machine, forcing me to use an ancient 1 year old potato. Also, they absurdly insist that I should go to school. My older brother is under a greater pressure - they asked him to find a job!! They consider that at 22 he is old enough to try to live on his own. And so on), I won't do this. I'm not a whiner.

 

I want very difficult content. Although my older brother is somehow worried about his future he still considers he can delay the moment he will start a career (other than game player) for another 5-6 years. So, he supports my request too.

 

In the end: We, the **real** players are the life of this game. We buy the shiny items from Gem Store ..... Woaa! I like the newest items. I need them.

Where is father? GRRR !! He works all the time and is not at home when I need his credit card!! I only need his help once in a while and I don't have it! And still **he** complains about the game!

[starlinvf.1358]

> @"mauried.5608" said:

> How about some challenging content with an outcome if you lose and a legendary weapon if you win.

> One of the problems with all MMOs , is that there is no consequence for losing.

> If your character dies, you just WP and your alive again.

> If your gear is damaged, off to a repair station and your as good as new again.

> Lets add some consequence for losing.

> If you die, then your dead.

> Your character is instantly deleted, any gold and / or items your character is carrying is lost.

> You are free to create another Character at level 1 and try again when you get to LV 80.

> Wonder why no one will be interested in this type of challenging content?

>

 

Legendary gambling? I this might be the pinacle of resource sinks.....

 

 

Make legendary, bet it in a battle against a Zommaros gambit, and if you win, you get +1 enchantment toward a new aura effect. Or go the Eternity route, and require 2 weapons of the same class to forge a mist breaker legendary. First to get all 3 underwater ones will winn gw2!!