So It Doesn't Look Like Platforming was the Issue with HoT

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

For once would it kill you to address my other perfectly valid points instead of repeating the same replies worded differently?

 

And I say all this a someone who doesn't have a horse in the race. I don't care about the platform issue. But you are ignoring a great many things other people in this thread are saying.

 

Not only that, but you are dismissing them out of hand.

 

It's kid of bad when the jerk who keeps getting moderated and is permabanned on the old forums is the only one here empathising with these folk.

[EdgarMTanaka.7291]

I am not one who complained about platformer in GW2, HoT or PoF, I am one of those who got called White Knight.

I really like HoT, it is cool and the maps looks awesome and they have an okay difficulty. I never had problems with compleating jumps to reach vistas or mastery points becouse they where hard, mostly it was becouse I didn't have the masteries needed. What I find different and better with PoF is that the important masteries that you need for some mastery points are only at level 3 and all except 2 mounts are aquired during the story. HoT maby didn't need Lay-line gliding but I never found a alternative way and to master Lay-line gliding I had to collect alot of Masteries that was even harder to get and to find and thus making it feel like a platformer where I had to take mastery nr 5 before nr 1. Not only was Lay-line gliding a grind and needed alot of masteries but to continue the story and to get other masteries I needed Mushroom jumping and Exalted ecceptance or what its called and they where not at the first mastery level. But for PoF you just have to unlock the mounts (Masteries) and you can continue the story and keep leveling the mastery you want to.

 

So in short, what I beleave makes PoF less of a plattformer than HoT isn't really the actuall plattformer. It is becouse it is easier to see what mastery you need to reach a destination in PoF and it is easier to just level up and get that mastery you need.

[Vayne.8563]

> @EdgarMTanaka.7291 said:

> I am not one who complained about platformer in GW2, HoT or PoF, I am one of those who got called White Knight.

> I really like HoT, it is cool and the maps looks awesome and they have an okay difficulty. I never had problems with compleating jumps to reach vistas or mastery points becouse they where hard, mostly it was becouse I didn't have the masteries needed. What I find different and better with PoF is that the important masteries that you need for some mastery points are only at level 3 and all except 2 mounts are aquired during the story. HoT maby didn't need Lay-line gliding but I never found a alternative way and to master Lay-line gliding I had to collect alot of Masteries that was even harder to get and to find and thus making it feel like a platformer where I had to take mastery nr 5 before nr 1. Not only was Lay-line gliding a grind and needed alot of masteries but to continue the story and to get other masteries I needed Mushroom jumping and Exalted ecceptance or what its called and they where not at the first mastery level. But for PoF you just have to unlock the mounts (Masteries) and you can continue the story and keep leveling the mastery you want to.

>

> So in short, what I beleave makes PoF less of a plattformer than HoT isn't really the actuall plattformer. It is becouse it is easier to see what mastery you need to reach a destination in PoF and it is easier to just level up and get that mastery you need.

 

Doing research to know what masteries you need is actually the opposite of a platformer. Most platformers give you what you needs as you go. HoT really didn't. They gave you options and you had to figure out the best options, something Iv'e not seen in most platformers, which tend to be linear. But there are plenty of points you can't get in POF until you get advance jumping or advanced gliding. The only real difference is you get the points faster.

 

People were confused by the zones. But the amount of platforming you need? Take leyline gliding. There is precisely 2 hero points in all of hot that require leyline gliding, assuming you don't have a helpful mesmer, which every hero point train has. You need a guild or a friend who's a mesmer who has leyline gliding, or you need to get leyline gliding for all of two mastery points in all of hot. I'm not seeing that as making leyline gliding indespensible. In fact, when HoT launched, you could get one of those two points without leyline gliding, by doing some actual platforming. However, out of most of the points in most of the zones,. they're just on the way. Maybe a jumping mushroom. Maybe jumping into a hole.

 

Having to get masteries doesn't make the game more like a platformer, it makes it more like an old fashioned adventure game, where you needed to figure out what to do, and then do it. I liked HoT because I loved those old fashioned adventure games. But either way, the platforming you needed was minimal.

[symke.3105]

> @Vayne.8563 said:

> > @FrizzFreston.5290 said:

> > If you compare platforming in HoT and platforming in PoF it should be pretty obvious why PoF platforming is preferred.

>

> POF has platforming, HoT had very little. That's pretty much what I'm saying.

 

Define platforming in a way everyone can understand and agree with it.

[Player.9621]

people were just whinging about HoT areas because it took effort to travel from one spot to another

you couldnt just autorun to the boss then autoattack it while you watch netflix, you had to work for it

[Vayne.8563]

> @symke.3105 said:

> > @Vayne.8563 said:

> > > @FrizzFreston.5290 said:

> > > If you compare platforming in HoT and platforming in PoF it should be pretty obvious why PoF platforming is preferred.

> >

> > POF has platforming, HoT had very little. That's pretty much what I'm saying.

>

> Define platforming in a way everyone can understand and agree with it.

 

Platforming is a type of gaming where you need to navigate something in order to progress through it. That would represent HOT and a game like say Tomb Raider. But the difference between say a platform game and an non-platform game is that they navigation requires some skill on the part of the person playing the game.

 

Jumping puzzles in Guild Wars 2 are platforming, because in many cases you're not just jumping, but you have to turn while jumping or jump shorter or longer. Jumping mushrooms aren't platforming because you get on a mushroom and it takes you to a preprogrammed position without any effort on the part of the player. It's no different than stepping into an asura gate. You interact with the mushroom and you were there you're supposed to be.

 

I'd consider having to catch updrafts in a specific order a type of platforming because there's skill involved in navigating those updrafts. The key word here isn't just moving from platform to platform. It's a game in which moving from platform to platform requires player skill.

 

There are definitely vistas and pois in HOT that require platforming. Anything out on a branch, for example However, there are two hero points in Verdant Brink at the bottom of chasms, linked with Nuhoch Wallows. Entering a wallow is like entering a portal. It requires no skill other than a simple interact. Those two hero points would not be considered platforming, unless you decided to glide down to get them, rather than waiting to get Nuhoch Wallows. The gliding would take skill, and thus it would make it platforming

 

Platforming games like Tombraider are all about jumping skills. Hand-eye, coordination, timing. Nuhoch wallows are about pressing the letter f.

[FrizzFreston.5290]

> @Vayne.8563 said:

> > @FrizzFreston.5290 said:

> > If you compare platforming in HoT and platforming in PoF it should be pretty obvious why PoF platforming is preferred.

>

> POF has platforming, HoT had very little. That's pretty much what I'm saying.

 

What you classify as platforming isnt the same what everyone else does.

 

So if you want to be right in your own view of the word platforming then thats going to be a very one sided and pointless discussion. (And has been so far) Stating that it wasnt an issue only stresses the fact you dont care to understand players who according to you use the word wrong.

 

Its an exercise in pointlessness. Good job.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> HoT was nothing more than a knee-jerk reaction from Anet caving to all the kitten demands of the forum.

 

And PoF is also a reaction to the kitten demands of the forum vocal minority

[EdgarMTanaka.7291]

> @Vayne.8563 said:

> > @EdgarMTanaka.7291 said:

> > I am not one who complained about platformer in GW2, HoT or PoF, I am one of those who got called White Knight.

> > I really like HoT, it is cool and the maps looks awesome and they have an okay difficulty. I never had problems with compleating jumps to reach vistas or mastery points becouse they where hard, mostly it was becouse I didn't have the masteries needed. What I find different and better with PoF is that the important masteries that you need for some mastery points are only at level 3 and all except 2 mounts are aquired during the story. HoT maby didn't need Lay-line gliding but I never found a alternative way and to master Lay-line gliding I had to collect alot of Masteries that was even harder to get and to find and thus making it feel like a platformer where I had to take mastery nr 5 before nr 1. Not only was Lay-line gliding a grind and needed alot of masteries but to continue the story and to get other masteries I needed Mushroom jumping and Exalted ecceptance or what its called and they where not at the first mastery level. But for PoF you just have to unlock the mounts (Masteries) and you can continue the story and keep leveling the mastery you want to.

> >

> > So in short, what I beleave makes PoF less of a plattformer than HoT isn't really the actuall plattformer. It is becouse it is easier to see what mastery you need to reach a destination in PoF and it is easier to just level up and get that mastery you need.

>

> Doing research to know what masteries you need is actually the opposite of a platformer. Most platformers give you what you needs as you go. HoT really didn't. They gave you options and you had to figure out the best options, something Iv'e not seen in most platformers, which tend to be linear. But there are plenty of points you can't get in POF until you get advance jumping or advanced gliding. The only real difference is you get the points faster.

>

> People were confused by the zones. But the amount of platforming you need? Take leyline gliding. There is precisely 2 hero points in all of hot that require leyline gliding, assuming you don't have a helpful mesmer, which every hero point train has. You need a guild or a friend who's a mesmer who has leyline gliding, or you need to get leyline gliding for all of two mastery points in all of hot. I'm not seeing that as making leyline gliding indespensible. In fact, when HoT launched, you could get one of those two points without leyline gliding, by doing some actual platforming. However, out of most of the points in most of the zones,. they're just on the way. Maybe a jumping mushroom. Maybe jumping into a hole.

>

> Having to get masteries doesn't make the game more like a platformer, it makes it more like an old fashioned adventure game, where you needed to figure out what to do, and then do it. I liked HoT because I loved those old fashioned adventure games. But either way, the platforming you needed was minimal.

 

It doesn't matter how much you say that you can do this and you can do that to easier get that Mastery or do this to get that HP, what I mean is that I beleave that many players complain about HoT being to platforming from hard navigated maps like Tangled Depts or hindered access from Events or from not having the masteries required.

Also, no you don't get more mastery points in PoF, each mastery has only 4 levels wich requires alot less mastery points to master compaired to those initial to HoT.

Even if you have a guild or a friend with a mesmer it is an obstacle that requires a special ability, some may even see using mesmer portal as cheating.

As I said in another post, I do like HoT and there is alot I like with that expansion but the maps, there is something that makes me tired of them. I have done 100% on VB but the other maps I havent done exploring and I love exploring usually, I have done exploring the other maps with my main and alts but HoT maps is just... no... I dunno if it is Event lock out or if it is becouse it's so hard to navigate I just can't get me to explore them. Some see all these problem as a Plattformer problem, it is too hard to navigate or just can't do jumps becouse they dont have a mastery or the time/friend/Guild/currage to get help from a mesmer.

 

In my case, I have more or less just done the story of PoF and I have level 3 for my Raptor, Springer and Skimmer without really having to bother to look for mastery points.

[Substance E.4852]

> @Vayne.8563 said:

> Platforming is a type of gaming where you need to navigate something in order to progress through it. That would represent HOT and a game like say Tomb Raider. But the difference between say a platform game and an non-platform game is that they navigation requires some skill on the part of the person playing the game.

 

That's literally just you making up definitions to fit your narrative. Required skill is relative and not any kind of reasonable measure whatsoever.

 

"Platformers", when considering non-2d games, are essentially any game where navigation of the environment is the primary puzzle to be solved or obstacle to overcome.

 

Enemies can be present, but aren't required, and are usually treated as environment hazards rather than the primary focus of completing the game. Think goombas or the turrets in Portal vs enemies in dark souls. Some games like megaman can have a big boss fight at the end of the level that serves as the driving force behind advancing the area, but such a feature isn't required to be considered a platformer. Most people just prefer killing things along the way to pure, peaceful puzzle solving.

 

They usually also require heavy amounts of Y/Z axis movement. This disqualifies games that might otherwise apply with the other factors like Legend of Grimlock.

 

Neither PoF, nor HoT, is a "platformer", they're action adventure games. But, the amount of environment navigation you have to engage in PoF is minute compared to HoT. Not to mention that 90% of it goes out the window once you get a gryphon while gliding was an essential part of navigating HoT.

[Vayne.8563]

> @"Substance E.4852" said:

> > @Vayne.8563 said:

> > Platforming is a type of gaming where you need to navigate something in order to progress through it. That would represent HOT and a game like say Tomb Raider. But the difference between say a platform game and an non-platform game is that they navigation requires some skill on the part of the person playing the game.

>

> That's literally just you making up definitions to fit your narrative. Required skill is relative and not any kind of reasonable measure whatsoever.

>

> "Platformers", when considering non-2d games, are essentially any game where navigation of the environment is the primary puzzle to be solved or obstacle to overcome.

>

> Enemies can be present, but aren't required, and are usually treated as environment hazards rather than the primary focus of completing the game. Think goombas or the turrets in Portal vs enemies in dark souls. Some games like megaman can have a big boss fight at the end of the level that serves as the driving force behind advancing the area, but such a feature isn't required to be considered a platformer. Most people just prefer killing things along the way to pure, peaceful puzzle solving.

>

> They usually also require heavy amounts of Y/Z axis movement. This disqualifies games that might otherwise apply with the other factors like Legend of Grimlock.

>

> Neither PoF, nor HoT, is a "platformer", they're action adventure games. But, the amount of environment navigation you have to engage in PoF is minute compared to HoT. Not to mention that 90% of it goes out the window once you get a gryphon while gliding was an essential part of navigating HoT.

 

Okay, so Divinity's Reach is a platformer if you use portals? No it's not. Teleporting around doesn't make a game a platformer. Look a shooting game requires you to shoot. The skill is in the shooting. A pvp game requires you to beat other players. The skill is in in fighting. A driving game the skill is in driving. And a platforming game the skill is in platform.

 

Suppose I had a game with a bunch of platforms but you move through them without any difficulty what soever, shooting stuff. Well, it would be a shooter, because the emphasis is on shooting.

 

A platforming game centers on skill being needed to platform. Let's list some platforming games. Donkey Kong, in which you have to jump over barrels, which requires skill. Tomb Raider, where the skill is in jumping over platforms Is there killing? Sure. But the platforming is the name of the game There are shooters that have platforming in them, but they become shooters, because shooting is the main focus.

 

Stepping on a mushroom will never be platforming if it just deposits you where you want to go because for that, there is no skill level. Every single person can get on a mushroom. Every single person can use a nuhoch wallow. I can't use a nuhoch wallow better than you. Saying that it's just a matter of skill and that's not a reason to classify a game is wrong. All FPSs are classified as FPSs not based on skill but based on focus. You still need skill to play them. And the same is true of HoT. Getting from platform to platform is easy if you step on a mushroom or use a wallow in most cases. The same can not be said about PoF, which has actual platforming.

 

My source is that I've played platform games my whole life., So tell me which platform games can you name that required no platforming skill?

[Vayne.8563]

> @FrizzFreston.5290 said:

> > @Vayne.8563 said:

> > > @FrizzFreston.5290 said:

> > > If you compare platforming in HoT and platforming in PoF it should be pretty obvious why PoF platforming is preferred.

> >

> > POF has platforming, HoT had very little. That's pretty much what I'm saying.

>

> What you classify as platforming isnt the same what everyone else does.

>

> So if you want to be right in your own view of the word platforming then thats going to be a very one sided and pointless discussion. (And has been so far) Stating that it wasnt an issue only stresses the fact you dont care to understand players who according to you use the word wrong.

>

> Its an exercise in pointlessness. Good job.

 

It may be pointless to you, but clarifying language is not pointless to me, because without clarifying terms, there is no communications and we might as well close down every forum in existence. I'm not the one making up definitions here. I've played literally dozens of platforming games, if not hundreds, and every single one of them required platforming skill. Merely having platforms doesn't make a game a platformer.

[iAimToPlease.7304]

I've actually always enjoyed platforming in GW2, I wouldn't complain that about the platforming in and of itself in HoT, I think the issue to a lot of people when it comes to platforming in HoT is more down to map design more than anything.

[Jana.6831]

> @Vayne.8563 said:

> It may be pointless to you, but clarifying language is not pointless to me, because without clarifying terms, there is no communications and we might as well close down every forum in existence. I'm not the one making up definitions here. I've played literally dozens of platforming games, if not hundreds, and every single one of them required platforming skill. Merely having platforms doesn't make a game a platformer.

 

At least Verdant Brink without masteries is platforming at it's finest: You have to take updrafts, have to time when you deploy your glider and have got no idea what the right updrafts are and where they will lead you (no platforming game ever did that though, the path was always clear). = You have a unique definition of the term "platforming" and complain that people have got other definitions. It doesn't get any more senseless than that actually.

[CharterforGw.3149]

"I've had conversations"

"there were disccusions"

"I remember having these converstions with people"

 

You keep falling back to these "conversations" you've supposedly had that prove you right, but you don't seem to post any links where we can have a look at these conversations. Or did you have these conversations irl, mouth to mouth talking? which makes it worse to use as proof.

 

Just post the links to these conversations you've had, or stop using them to fall back on as if they are facts.

[Vayne.8563]

> @CharterforGw.3149 said:

> "I've had conversations"

> "there were disccusions"

> "I remember having these converstions with people"

>

> You keep falling back to these "conversations" you've supposedly had that prove you right, but you don't seem to post any links where we can have a look at these conversations. Or did you have these conversations irl, mouth to mouth talking? which makes it worse to use as proof.

>

> Just post the links to these conversations you've had, or stop using them to fall back on as if they are facts.

 

I don't need to post these links. Not only have other people in this thread said they remember the same things, but at least 1 person in this thread admitted to having those opinions and stating them. Why should I have to do research to appease people who don't believe me. The conversations happened, whether you believe it or not. The fact that I'm not going to spend my time trawling through the old forum without a search engine indicates nothing but the fact that it's a waste of time.

[Vayne.8563]

> @Jana.6831 said:

> > @Vayne.8563 said:

> > It may be pointless to you, but clarifying language is not pointless to me, because without clarifying terms, there is no communications and we might as well close down every forum in existence. I'm not the one making up definitions here. I've played literally dozens of platforming games, if not hundreds, and every single one of them required platforming skill. Merely having platforms doesn't make a game a platformer.

>

> At least Verdant Brink without masteries is platforming at it's finest: You have to take updrafts, have to time when you deploy your glider and have got no idea what the right updrafts are and where they will lead you (no platforming game ever did that though, the path was always clear). = You have a unique definition of the term "platforming" and complain that people have got other definitions. It doesn't get any more senseless than that actually.

 

Yes, updrafts are a form of platforming You can cross the entire zone without taking a single updraft, though and you can get to all the stuff in the canopy with choppers. You don't have to play massive, find the next updraft unless you want to...or you haven't figured out the zone. It's a puzzle. That's the point of it. Not everyone likes puzzles and those people can watch a video. But that doesn't make puzzles a bad thing, nor does it make the game a platformer.

[atticus.5284]

what is the point of this thread? it's clear people used the term "platforming" as a generic term to mean the confused layout of HoT which most people didn't like. OK - and we're done, right?

[Torolan.5816]

and there we are again, at square 1 of the old discussion. It is not even that important if HoT was a platformer or not, the real issue is that most of the HoT maps were inflated puzzles with arcade minigames if you follow the idea of Vayne or a crushingly annoying 3d plattformer with multiple routes if you ask other people. It is for me not a question that HoT gets more bearable with more masteries, but it never gets really good.

 

Neither option of these maps seems desireable for me. It has not to be as flat as a tundra plain, but i don´t want to crawl through a stony desert with the occasional Ayers Rock between sand or a tropical version of the grand canyon either. If I want to solve riddles, I look for the riddle in my newspaper. If i want to play a plattformer, I play a successor of the games I mentioned. If I can´t figure something out by simply playing in reasonable amount of time, it is a waste of time in my opinion. i remember following a friend to a hidden mastery point i would be still looking for today probably without his help. this is not my idea of fun, and obviously enough people agreed with me so that Anet overthought their policy.

[Torolan.5816]

and there we are again, at square 1 of the old discussion. It is not even that important if HoT was a platformer or not, the real issue is that most of the HoT maps were inflated puzzles with arcade minigames if you follow the idea of Vayne or a crushingly annoying 3d plattformer with multiple routes if you ask other people. It is for me not a question that HoT gets more bearable with more masteries, but it never gets really good.

 

Neither option of these maps seems desireable for me. It has not to be as flat as a tundra plain, but i don´t want to crawl through a stony desert with the occasional Ayers Rock between sand or a tropical version of the grand canyon either. If I want to solve riddles, I look for the riddle in my newspaper. If i want to play a plattformer, I play a successor of the games I mentioned. If I can´t figure something out by simply playing in reasonable amount of time, it is a waste of time in my opinion. i remember following a friend to a hidden mastery point i would be still looking for today probably without his help. this is not my idea of fun, and obviously enough people agreed with me so that Anet overthought their policy.

[Vayne.8563]

> @Torolan.5816 said:

> and there we are again, at square 1 of the old discussion. It is not even that important if HoT was a platformer or not, the real issue is that most of the HoT maps were inflated puzzles with arcade minigames if you follow the idea of Vayne or a crushingly annoying 3d plattformer with multiple routes if you ask other people. It is for me not a question that HoT gets more bearable with more masteries, but it never gets really good.

>

> Neither option of these maps seems desireable for me. It has not to be as flat as a tundra plain, but i don´t want to crawl through a stony desert with the occasional Ayers Rock between sand or a tropical version of the grand canyon either. If I want to solve riddles, I look for the riddle in my newspaper. If i want to play a plattformer, I play a successor of the games I mentioned. If I can´t figure something out by simply playing in reasonable amount of time, it is a waste of time in my opinion. i remember following a friend to a hidden mastery point i would be still looking for today probably without his help. this is not my idea of fun, and obviously enough people agreed with me so that Anet overthought their policy.

 

It wouldn't be important if it weren't miscommunicating it to people who haven't played it. That's my take on it and it will ALWAYS be my take on it. Presumably you saw the posts by people who didn't buy hot because of stuff said loudly on the forums which turned out not be to true for them. Saying it's a platformer gives the wrong impression to people who actually play platformers.

 

It's like someone who's really bad at shooting, plays guild wars 2, can't kill stuff and starts calling it a shooter loudly everywhere. It's not a shooter and calling it so just gives other people reading the wrong impression.

[Evil.1580]

More and more people are returning to HoT each day. Won't be long before the maps feel like a core Tyria map.

[FrizzFreston.5290]

There is no way of giving people the right impression without letting them play through it themselves. There's no telling whether people agree or disagree with the issues of players who already played it.

 

If you want to give players the right impression then all the opinions on this forum hold equal value, no matter how often and how much you criticize eachothers opinions.

 

If you think that one type of gamer, who reads the forums who didn't buy HoT who ONLY looks at the platforming complains AND let that be a deciding factor in whether or not they buy HoT is important, then me getting a precursor from the mystic forge is important too.

[MMAI.5892]

> @Vayne.8563 said:

> It wouldn't be important if it weren't miscommunicating it to people who haven't played it. That's my take on it and it will ALWAYS be my take on it. Presumably you saw the posts by people who didn't buy hot because of stuff said loudly on the forums which turned out not be to true for them. Saying it's a platformer gives the wrong impression to people who actually play platformers.

>

> It's like someone who's really bad at shooting, plays guild wars 2, can't kill stuff and starts calling it a shooter loudly everywhere. It's not a shooter and calling it so just gives other people reading the wrong impression.

 

*...which turned out not be to true for them* - But does that make it any less true for the people who made the initial statement? For someone who is well versed and excels in platform style play, I doubt much beyond jumping puzzles would qualify as a 'true platforming game' for people who vehemently hate platforming, their take will be different. Honestly, taking any one set of opinions about a game from forums and basing a decision to play or not on them is all in the eye of the beholder. There will be no such thing as the perfect review that accurately encompasses the entirety of a game using only objective views of terminology that are universally agreed upon. It just doesn't exist. Secondly, just because there may be more platforming in PoF (I honestly don't know because I don't really care to do a complete, side by side comparison) doesn't necessarily mean that the less platforming in HoT wasn't harder or more frustrating for people. It was for me and I now looking forward to blazing through TD on my mounts since it's the only map I've yet to complete in HoT.

 

My pardon if I've misunderstood some of your points and please feel free to correct. That said, there are comments where you seem to be 'moving the goal posts'. For example, in one of your comments, you said something to effect of having a mesmer friend or using an HP train with mesmers will allow most if not all platforming for HPs (and other places) in HoT to be skipped. The implication seeming to be that because they can be skipped in this fashion, the platforming is either no longer platforming or incidental. Okay, but the same is true for PoF. I've run around the maps except for Vabbi at this point quite a bit and can reach most everything on foot. It might be a lot harder and/or longer in some areas due to area effects like sulfur or the branded area effect, but it's not impossible. I could also pay for a mesmer portal or use TP to friends (seen a lot of those advertised as well) but that doesn't negate the utility and platforming aspects anymore than taking a mesmer portal to the end of the JP makes the JP no longer platforming. I've also learned what class skills I can use (namely GS3, and Wings of Resolve) to 'skip' over certain platforming sections. I don't think this negates the obvious other mechanics just because I've found a less intensive way of doing it.

 

Also, I feel that HoTs platforming and its difficulty gates a lot more of HoTs content than in PoF. A lot of mastery points are directly tied to adventures and a lot of those are definitely platforming games. Someone already mentioned the HoT mastery insight that lies at the top of a jumping puzzle in VB. Many collection achievements rely on those things as well and if iirc (and I might not, admittedly) some of the events required it as well. There's also that bit of story that is, I believe, not only platforming, but timed platforming. So far in my PoF experience, there is a lot less of that kind of gating and what there is, thus far, has been easier to accomplish than HoT. And therein the difference probably lies. I'll gladly do a thousand bunny jumps across the desert that take me 1 or 2 tries to do versus hours of falling, dying, bafflingly 'slippery' ledges, while trying to figure out one convoluted path to get to one POI or HP.

 

Is it possible that people are over-inflating the importance and difficulty of HoT platforming because it blends into other aspects of HoT (difficulty in navigating, mob density, etc) that frustrated them as well and platforming was the proverbial straw? Sure. But I don't think that can be completely hand waved away either as those things contributed to the difficulty of those maps.

 

 

 

[Djinn.9245]

> @MMAI.5892 said:

> > @Vayne.8563 said:

> > It wouldn't be important if it weren't miscommunicating it to people who haven't played it. That's my take on it and it will ALWAYS be my take on it. Presumably you saw the posts by people who didn't buy hot because of stuff said loudly on the forums which turned out not be to true for them. Saying it's a platformer gives the wrong impression to people who actually play platformers.

> >

> > It's like someone who's really bad at shooting, plays guild wars 2, can't kill stuff and starts calling it a shooter loudly everywhere. It's not a shooter and calling it so just gives other people reading the wrong impression.

>

> *...which turned out not be to true for them* - But does that make it any less true for the people who made the initial statement? For someone who is well versed and excels in platform style play, I doubt much beyond jumping puzzles would qualify as a 'true platforming game' for people who vehemently hate platforming, their take will be different. Honestly, taking any one set of opinions about a game from forums and basing a decision to play or not on them is all in the eye of the beholder. There will be no such thing as the perfect review that accurately encompasses the entirety of a game using only objective views of terminology that are universally agreed upon. It just doesn't exist. Secondly, just because there may be more platforming in PoF (I honestly don't know because I don't really care to do a complete, side by side comparison) doesn't necessarily mean that the less platforming in HoT wasn't harder or more frustrating for people. It was for me and I now looking forward to blazing through TD on my mounts since it's the only map I've yet to complete in HoT.

>

> My pardon if I've misunderstood some of your points and please feel free to correct. That said, there are comments where you seem to be 'moving the goal posts'. For example, in one of your comments, you said something to effect of having a mesmer friend or using an HP train with mesmers will allow most if not all platforming for HPs (and other places) in HoT to be skipped. The implication seeming to be that because they can be skipped in this fashion, the platforming is either no longer platforming or incidental. Okay, but the same is true for PoF. I've run around the maps except for Vabbi at this point quite a bit and can reach most everything on foot. It might be a lot harder and/or longer in some areas due to area effects like sulfur or the branded area effect, but it's not impossible. I could also pay for a mesmer portal or use TP to friends (seen a lot of those advertised as well) but that doesn't negate the utility and platforming aspects anymore than taking a mesmer portal to the end of the JP makes the JP no longer platforming. I've also learned what class skills I can use (namely GS3, and Wings of Resolve) to 'skip' over certain platforming sections. I don't think this negates the obvious other mechanics just because I've found a less intensive way of doing it.

>

> Also, I feel that HoTs platforming and its difficulty gates a lot more of HoTs content than in PoF. A lot of mastery points are directly tied to adventures and a lot of those are definitely platforming games. Someone already mentioned the HoT mastery insight that lies at the top of a jumping puzzle in VB. Many collection achievements rely on those things as well and if iirc (and I might not, admittedly) some of the events required it as well. There's also that bit of story that is, I believe, not only platforming, but timed platforming. So far in my PoF experience, there is a lot less of that kind of gating and what there is, thus far, has been easier to accomplish than HoT. And therein the difference probably lies. I'll gladly do a thousand bunny jumps across the desert that take me 1 or 2 tries to do versus hours of falling, dying, bafflingly 'slippery' ledges, while trying to figure out one convoluted path to get to one POI or HP.

>

> Is it possible that people are over-inflating the importance and difficulty of HoT platforming because it blends into other aspects of HoT (difficulty in navigating, mob density, etc) that frustrated them as well and platforming was the proverbial straw? Sure. But I don't think that can be completely hand waved away either as those things contributed to the difficulty of those maps.

>

Nice post. I agree with most of what you are saying even while at the same time I stand by my complaints about Anet introducing more and more platforming _mechanics_ to the game from Dry Top through HoT.