Place your bets. Is ________ (massive spoiler)

[Magnus Godrik.5841]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"Magnus Godrik.5841" said:

> > Dragons cant foresee thier deaths. Kralkatorik couldnt and glint couldnt so obviously aureen cant. If they could glint would be alive and kralkatorrik wouldnt be kitten in his pants.

>

> I mean, Kralkatorrik saw a world without him. That means he saw after his death.

 

Yes but he didnt see how he dies and by whom.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"Magnus Godrik.5841" said:

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > @"Magnus Godrik.5841" said:

> > > Dragons cant foresee thier deaths. Kralkatorik couldnt and glint couldnt so obviously aureen cant. If they could glint would be alive and kralkatorrik wouldnt be kitten in his pants.

> >

> > I mean, Kralkatorrik saw a world without him. That means he saw after his death.

>

> Yes but he didnt see how he dies and by whom.

 

Doesn't really change anything. Glint couldn't see her death **or beyond it**. Kralkatorrik saw beyond his supposed death. Aurene saw her death.

 

Either Glint lied to her "journal", or she's the lesser of the three.

[Predator.2847]

> > >@"Magnus Godrik.5841" said:

>Yes but he didnt see how he dies and by whom.

 

Let show him this reality, BRING YOUR PICKAXE! It's time to mining a dragon!

[Bast.7253]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"Magnus Godrik.5841" said:

> > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > > @"Magnus Godrik.5841" said:

> > > > Dragons cant foresee thier deaths. Kralkatorik couldnt and glint couldnt so obviously aureen cant. If they could glint would be alive and kralkatorrik wouldnt be kitten in his pants.

> > >

> > > I mean, Kralkatorrik saw a world without him. That means he saw after his death.

> >

> > Yes but he didnt see how he dies and by whom.

>

> Doesn't really change anything. Glint couldn't see her death **or beyond it**. Kralkatorrik saw beyond his supposed death. Aurene saw her death.

>

> Either Glint lied to her "journal", or she's the lesser of the three.

 

If she couldn't see beyond her death then how does Ogden know about the lich being part of said prophecy? Or did I miss that that was information given to him by Glint long ago and we're just now hearing about it because this is the first time we've spoken to Ogden about it?

[borgs.6103]

It's going to be a "Freaky Friday" body-switch. It's Kralk that's dead in Aurene's corpse and Aurene is now Kralk. Problem solved! Dilemma deleted!

[Bast.7253]

You know, with all these time rifts going on, whose to say we aren’t in some nightmare fractal of Kralks doing and that fight either didn’t happen at all, didn’t go that way, or just didn’t finish because he trapped us in a time rift?

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"cptaylor.2670" said:

> You know, with all these time rifts going on, whose to say we aren’t in some nightmare fractal of Kralks doing and that fight either didn’t happen at all, didn’t go that way, or just didn’t finish because he trapped us in a time rift?

 

And next episode, we kill Kralkatorrik. But then we're back in the Auditorium, and Aurene flies through with Kralkatorrik bursting, and Aurene dies and we kill Kralkatorrik in revenge again. Then we're back in the Auditorium...

 

"Commander, I've come to barter!"

[Bast.7253]

Just want to make a note in the more logical thread choice.. but...

 

Why do people want this story to get darker and darker? In this season and expansion alone we've had Vlast sacrifice himself to save the player character from Balthazar before Aurene even had the chance to meet him, a charr cub's father be experimented on and tortured, a soldier ask to die alone on a floating platform in space just to avoid potential eternal slavery in undeath, a brother sacrifice his golem immortality just to become a gps to give us a slight advantage, and now people just want Aurene to stay dead? If you want it so damn dark why don't we just obliterate half of Tyria and change everything to greyscale. Just suck any potential light or hope out of every facet of this game that we can. For that matter, let's just cause Tyria to implode and have only 10 people or so magically find refuge in some time-loop in the mists where everyone dies over and over and over again. Just be as bleak as possible for an entire expansion.

 

 

I mean really, are people overlooking the fact that we've already had TWO sacrifices since Path of Fire released. Vlast and Blish. Both finite deaths. Do we really need Aurene's death to be the third in this increasingly cliché pattern.

 

 

Those of you that want her to stay dead and out of the picture, have you considered the fact that we will then be essentially spending an entire season somehow with this whole "Kralk is devouring the mists and destroying reality."

 

I mean really.. just to recap the overarching story here:

We have to kill the elder dragons.

If we kill the elder dragons, Tyria goes into chaos and can be destroyed.

Aurene and Vlast are meant to replace the two currently dead elder dragons.

Balthazar is threatening to kill Kralk so we have to kill Balthazar, but in doing so Kralk becomes more powerful.

We learn that Kralk now has the ability to travel to the mists, is eating the mists, and now not just Tyria but reality itself is at risk.

Aurene is now potentially dead, so we have Kralk still able to travel to the mists and reality is still at risk of being destroyed with no opposition.

 

So what's next? What's the next step in this fun little chain of higher and higher stakes bar-raising events?

 

We have another rogue god appear that prevents us from being able to pursue killing Kralk and creating another roadblock? We have another elder dragon show up and Kralk be like... nah bruh, you got my magic, and kill him too? Becoming even more powerful?

 

At some point they have to stop raising the bar. And spending an entire season finding some other solution for Kralk while we're still at risk of reality being destroyed seems like far worse writing than bringing Aurene back.

 

I do have to agree that they've kind of cornered themselves with the writing at this point.

 

Because now you're left with the choice of:

 

Do you want a somewhat predictable ending that can still be potentially well-written and rewarding to where we've been in the story?

 

Or do you want us to continue along this, reality is ending and there's no hope and now we have to find some other solution but we don't know what yet journey that could wind up with anything from Time Traveling, to alternate realities, to finding magical weapons that "do the work of elder dragons" and thus make all future elder dragon plots irrelevant unless it gets destroyed and we wind up going down this same series of ...big threat..setback...bigger threat...setback...biggest threat..setback…randomly introduced solution.

 

Idk. I think I'll go with the first choice and have a perfectly logical and rewarding solution to a problem that's been inflated over and over and over to the point that at any moment we could be dealing with some Warlord's of Draenor World of Warcraft time travel alternate dimension level story simply because we've blown everything so far out of proportion that we need a comic-book level reset on the entire story. And having this solution be because of a beloved fan-favorite character's death makes the most sense out of anything else.

 

Intentionally not showing Aurene's actual moment of death or letting us have interaction with her corpse, any of our team, and directly ending the instance with a black screen saying "I don't know" as well as countless hints about Joko being a part of this plan as well as dialogue establishing that awakening works on dragon minions.. as well as a dev post saying that Joko's death wasn't just a way to quickly write him off and change direction...

 

Like, why are people not seeing this? Why are people choosing not to embrace this as a viable and better alternative? Why discredit it as cheap or bad writing when we've had the building blocks being laid this entire time?

 

Also, to the note of the player character dying and returning to life by essentially bargaining their way out of the underworld... you're essentially using this as somekind of precedent or reason as to why they can't repeat something similar with Aurene.

 

But if you think about it, we fought Balthazar-- a former human god-- and died because we weren't ready. (I feel like this entire part of the story was only really implemented so that we would have interaction with Joko to begin with but beside the point)

 

Now Aurene, faces Kralk and dies because we're led to believe that she wasn't ready.

 

It's the exact same scenario, only if Aurene stays dead then what? What makes the player character so special that they can come back from the dead and not this dragon that's had an entire legacy and prophecy based around her with entire races of people ensuring her survival? How would that not be cheap? We deserve plot armor and a slap on the wrist in the form of everyone around us dying in the face of constantly looming apocalyptic level threats... but Aurene's plot armor is somehow more offensive?

 

 

The story is dark enough as it is and at some point this train has to get back on the track or just wreck completely.

 

So if you want it darker for the sake of it just being darker, in all sincerity, let's just blow up Tyria, the mists, and end the entire Guild Wars universe on that note. Then, as Guild Wars 3 never arrives as you may have potentially thought it would as the outcome of this whole scenario, you can see that darker story, shock value, and "bold story decisions" aren't everything you thought you wanted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

cp, while I do agree with most of your points... did you look at the results of the poll? 80% agree that this isn't the end for Aurene. On this forum, with this kind of question, that's a massive majority. There are dissenters, certainly, but aren't there always going to be people who like different things than you do? Ease up on 'em.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

I'd also like to add that it's not a certainty that Blish is dead. He said he'd be shutting off his higher functions, but that's exactly what happened to him in Amnoon. He's effectively in sensory deprivation mode, not dead. With golems being resistant / immune to branding, there's a chance he's still alive. Just gotta kill Kralkattorik then find the golem body. Even if the body is no good, whatever stores Blish's soul/consciousness may remain intact and transferable to a new body.

 

Chances are ArenaNet won't bring him back, mind you, but it is theoretically plausible.

[RedShark.9548]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"Magnus Godrik.5841" said:

> > Dragons cant foresee thier deaths. Kralkatorik couldnt and glint couldnt so obviously aureen cant. If they could glint would be alive and kralkatorrik wouldnt be kitten in his pants.

>

> I mean, Kralkatorrik saw a world without him. That means he saw after his death.

 

His magic stays in the world as part of the all thingy, so technically he wouldnt die, the world lived on without his body and mind, but his magic... Something like that

[lokh.2695]

Seeing how everone was super sad that glint died....until the writers decided that she is still alive and well as a spirit in the mists, I doubt that Aurene has left the story. I assume that "the thing about ascension that can only be shared between dragons" is the secret how to permanently live in the mists and communicate with the normal world.

[hugo.4705]

yes, no resurrection stone or anything. I've enough of seeing any movie or game playing with death like it was nothing. Stay dead, the impact and feels will be stronger. Poor PI Joko, he definitely deserved a whole season more than a dragon, but that how it goes, I'm happy with kralk too. Twist: We fight branded Aurene just like in the trials, could be epic or dramatic, two dragoons against us xD

->Pretty hard to see who will help us now, certainly not baddies, asurans should have teleported themselves in the most hidden complex ever known.

->More awakened? No reasons, Olmakhans? We killed those innocent peoples. My guess would be charrs homeland, to recruit more cats and leading them to suicide.

OR second twist: Charrs in charr homeland at the contrary of olmakhans developped advanced mechanics that are almost like asuran technology: A very huge Gunmachine ready to welcome kralk. Steampunk map?

 

Can't figure what is enough to kill him, mega crystals boomers-speakers only give him a little vertigo... Epic inter-dimensional fight?

[Castigator.3470]

> @"hugo.4705" said:

> Can't figure what is enough to kill him, mega crystals boomers-speakers only give him a little vertigo... Epic inter-dimensional fight?

Blood and Iron Legions reveal their Siege Gun? That thing would be able to damage Kralkatorrik one crater at a time. Especially if they hit the eyes, which leads to the question: How does Kralkatorriks body even work? Does he have a brain in that crystalline head of his?

[hugo.4705]

> @"Castigator.3470" said:

> > @"hugo.4705" said:

> > Can't figure what is enough to kill him, mega crystals boomers-speakers only give him a little vertigo... Epic inter-dimensional fight?

> Blood and Iron Legions reveal their Siege Gun? That thing would be able to damage Kralkatorrik one crater at a time. Especially if they hit the eyes, which leads to the question: How does Kralkatorriks body even work? Does he have a brain in that crystalline head of his?

 

Yup, about kralk, I suppose he has a giant magnetite within his head making some electro-magnetic connections between all crystals within his body kinda like a resonance. That's why he got disturbed by crystal shock-waves within the last instance for me. His weakness are the crystal that create his body/blood.

[derd.6413]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> I'd also like to add that it's not a certainty that Blish is dead. He said he'd be shutting off his higher functions, but that's exactly what happened to him in Amnoon. He's effectively in sensory deprivation mode, not dead. With golems being resistant / immune to branding, there's a chance he's still alive.

 

next episode we go to the mists to save aurene but save blish instead

[hugo.4705]

I hope blish is alive, it's an awesome character, we know that like a regular golem, he can shut down himself. Plus, inquest golem are immune to branding like MN-4C3. We will find his exosqueleton within the mists no doubts on that.

[syszery.1592]

Probably not because Joko and Kralkatorrik also didn't absorb all the magic and so...

[TheQuickFox.3826]

I think the GW2 story would devalue death too much if perished characters can be brought back to life too often. Therefore I think death is permanent here. If you would have asked me, I would not have let her die to begin with, not so soon/young at least.

But let's see what happens next. I'm all ears.

 

Maybe she can come back in spirit form or as any other form / rebirth. But not in her own body as it is clearly destroyed beyond healing by the crystal dragon.

[Bast.7253]

 

 

 

> @"TheQuickFox.3826" said:

> I think the GW2 story would devalue death too much if perished characters can be brought back to life too often. Therefore I think death is permanent here. If you would have asked me, I would not have let her die to begin with, not so soon/young at least.

> But let's see what happens next. I'm all ears.

>

> Maybe she can come back in spirit form or as any other form / rebirth. But not in her own body as it is clearly destroyed beyond healing by the crystal dragon.

 

 

I think this is partially due to the pc already pulling the trick once. I think it may have been better in the long run to not do that to begin with but I feel like the ultimate goal of that was to introduce us to joko. And who knows, maybe that moment will tie in with whatever we need to do for Aurene. People complaining about eir and Snaff I think are missing the point that if not for the rifts they wouldn’t be able to come back as they have. They would just be spirits in the mists. The ghost army though with Joko was another case. I think in general they’ve done so much ghost and resurrection this expansion that having one more honesty wouldn’t matter.

 

 

[Tora.7214]

> @"Agrotera.1254" said:

> I didn't read all of the comments so this may have already been said.

> >! Glint sent Aurene to learn about Ascension. Glint sent you to learn how everything started. Glint then tells you that Aurene must do something that is going to be very hard for her. She makes it clear that Aurene needs to be able to count on you to get her through it. I think that what Aurene learned is that to Ascend she has to die. Think about it, what is harder than knowing that you are going to die and doing what needs to be done anyways? That is why she needs you, to give her the strength to do what must be done, knowing that you have her back. I believe that Aurene is going to Ascend and return to help us take Kralk down once and for all.

 

To add to this. It also would explained why this conversation needed to be private because, be honest, if Glint would have told the commander that Aurene needed to die. Would the commander have allowed Aurene anywhere near the battle or even carry it trough at all? No. Leaving the commander in blank about this point was necesary for the battle to go trough, weaken Kralkatoric, and do what she needed to do. The way she looked at the commander moments before Kralk awakened may have seem like her looking for ensurance to the commander (because of the way we nodded) but it might have just been because Aurene knew that now was the time and that she wanted to look at him/her one last time because she doesnt know in what state she will be once she ascends, if she comes back as a gigantic elder dragon then that very well will mark the end of her travelings with Dragon's Watch

 

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

> @"Teratus.2859" said:

 

> It's not entirely how I thought it was going to end, I wasn't actually expecting Aurine to die although I can't see it being permanent since we've already established that Kralkatorrik cannot be destroyed without being replaced.

>

> Aurine is the only being we know of who can achieve this goal

 

eh...?

 

What about the Pale Tree? She is on a level like Glint was. Inclusive prophetic abilities and visions. The only difference between Glint and Pale Tree - the Tree did not need the Forgotten, Zephyrites, dwarves and other gullible slaves to work for her. She just makes them. A lot. Every day.

 

 

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

> The only difference between Glint and Pale Tree - the Tree did not need the Forgotten, Zephyrites, dwarves and other gullible slaves to work for her. She just makes them. A lot. Every day.

 

To be fair:

 

1. *Someone* had to purify the Pale Tree + Malyck's Tree. It sure as heck wasn't Ventari. And Forgotten are a pretty strong candidate for that, given they were doing stuff in the Maguuma.

2. [Glint](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Distorted_Facet.jpg) [did](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Crystal_Guardian) [make](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Crystal_Spider) [minions](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aurene) [too](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vlast).

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

Malyck's tree? I can't remember any hint that it might be 'purified'. From what we saw in Maguuma it is save to assume it never was.

 

Still, now that Aurene is dead, the Pale Tree is the only KNOWN free acting dragon champion we got.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

> Malyck's tree? I can't remember any hint that it might be 'purified'. From what we saw in Maguuma it is save to assume it never was.

 

The fact Malyck was a sylvari and not a mordrem (aka wasn't corrupted) is proof, really. Anet even confirmed that Malyck's Tree wasn't a Blighting Tree shortly after HoT, and that we haven't seen it yet, when talking about the lack of Malyck (and his tree) in the expansion.

 

Plus, there's no event after Ronan got the Pale Tree's seed that would result in it being purified, so it likely happened to the entire cave of seeds.