All or Nothing: Requiem

[Arden.7480]

> @"Nath Forge Tempete.1645" said:

> I felt so bored reading it ... nothing really interesting there honestly. A website "wall" of text. I didn't feel anything special reading it ...

 

Then you haven't read Edge of Destiny. This "wall of text" resolves the whole Rytlock's and Logan's plot from the book - Rytlock actually tells how he got Sohothin, and hearing Logan that says "Your sword" is just so powerful! If you'd read the book, you would be really amazed by this line, because it's just everything! Also it gives more dialogues from the Mists that he had with Balthazar. It's just a massive lore bomb. Seeing that as a chapter from a book is just soo much better, it's such a great idea.

[zeldara.4127]

I liked it. Adds a bit more depth to or at least understanding of the character. Not that I like Rytlock anymore as a person knowing this. Perhaps even less, as I never quite got how selfish he was, the given reason/origin of it coming into expression isn't an excuse for it. But it is an explanation and those help put things in perspective. And atleast he seems to understand himself finally he's a bit of a >censored into kitten<. I do like him more as a character due to understanding him more. So yeah I think this written extra is a nice bonus. Though like many others I would have preferred to have gotten (part of) this info in game somehow. Without this thread I would not even have seen it. But website extra info > no lore info

[Fleebag.1384]

> @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> What did you think of the tale?

I really missed these background stories and would certainly like **more ** of them to flesh out and support the in-game content !!!

[Teratus.2859]

Such a good read ^^

 

And finally some actual backstory answering questions we've wanted answers to for many years :D

Very well done although it would be nice if these kinds of things happened in the game itself.

 

As some keep asking.. we really do need some kind of lorebook library system in the game so we can account bind books and letters of importance etc and read them whenever we like.

As much as I enjoyed Rytlocks story here I can't promise I'll read the others.. not because I don't want to.. I do, but i'll probably forget about them and end up missing them :(

 

That wouldn't happen if they were put into the game as readable diaries we could collect.

[hugo.4705]

I think it's definitely a good source of lore for any topic, if they don't have enough time to add it within maps, writers can develop several mysterious points / dead end of stories using those short-tales. A good thing maybe, will see.

[Nath Forge Tempete.1645]

> @"Arden.7480" said:

> > @"Nath Forge Tempete.1645" said:

> > I felt so bored reading it ... nothing really interesting there honestly. A website "wall" of text. I didn't feel anything special reading it ...

>

> Then you haven't read Edge of Destiny. This "wall of text" resolves the whole Rytlock's and Logan's plot from the book - Rytlock actually tells how he got Sohothin, and hearing Logan that says "Your sword" is just so powerful! If you'd read the book, you would be really amazed by this line, because it's just everything! Also it gives more dialogues from the Mists that he had with Balthazar. It's just a massive lore bomb. Seeing that as a chapter from a book is just soo much better, it's such a great idea.

 

actually i did :) but maybe I just don't like the way the last episode has been handled by the narrative team ^^

[Endless Soul.5178]

I thoroughly enjoyed it. At last we finally know how Rytlock found Sohothin. I'm also fine with it not being in-game. While I would have preferred it, I can understand the reasons why it isn't.

 

I'm looking forward to more of these!

[Gaile Gray.6029]

Folks interested in additional conversation or perhaps different viewpoints about this story might want to check out or join a [lively discussion ](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67300/thoughts-on-all-or-nothing-requiem-spoilers "lively discussion ")in the Lore Subforum!

[Randulf.7614]

I'm surprised he didn't mention how soft his fur is though. I mean, we're all thinking it

[NanoEliteSixSixSix.8935]

> @"Randulf.7614" said:

> I'm surprised he didn't mention how soft his fur is though. I mean, we're all thinking it

 

No point in bringing up what we already know, honestly. He kows that we know how soft that fur of his is.

[Junuve.2761]

I just wanted to log on here and say THANK YOU to the people who brought us this story, Alex Kain and I'm sure many other talented people working at Arenanet.

It was fantastic! Perhaps the format could use some tweaking (like the Balthazaar link loop thing that was a bit odd) but other than that minor nitpick I LOVED it. I'm so happy to see Rytlock get some much-deserved characterization! Not to mention the other themes and story lines this shed light on.

I look forward to the next two stories.

[Tom Abernathy.5893]

> @"Sojourner.4621" said:

> > @"TheOrlyFactor.8341" said:

> > > @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> > > I really enjoyed Rytlock's story today.

> > >

> > > What did you think of the tale?

> >

> > Gonna copy/paste the post I made in the Lore section here because I'm too lazy to type it all out again. :P

> >

> > > @"TheOrlyFactor.8341" said:

> > > I thought it was a well-told story. It really doesn't make me more sympathetic towards Rytlock though. If anything, it's made me less so. For all this talk about warbands and families and having cubs, he didn't (and in my opinion still doesn't) act like someone who has their priorities straight. It was all about him and his life. To Hell with everyone else. He talks about how important Destiny's Edge was to him, how he was loyal to them, how they were his warband/family yet it was him who decided to dissolve them and (from my perspective) abandon them in LWS3.1. It was him who decided to peace out and form Dragon's Watch with the Commander. He flees and retreats at actual failure rather than picking himself back up and pushing on, rather than check on those who managed to survive the confrontation with Mordremoth. I don't find that respectable in fictional characters or in real life.

> > >

> > > Rytlock being bullied as a cub is no excuse or justification for his behavior either. Instead of rising above his experiences, he let them control him. In an ironic twist, he kind of became a bully himself in the process, from my perspective. Him holding onto that tough guy shtick even at the end of the story is also concerning as I certainly think that's a harmful social byproduct of him being bullied. By making it about him, by having this tough guy/gruff facade up all the time, he hurt everyone around him: Destiny's Edge, Dragon's Watch, his cubs, etc.

> > >

> > > Sure, he's admitting _now_ that the whole thing with Balthazar was his fault but many of us know what they say about hindsight. The metaphorical horse is already out of the barn. Why wasn't he thinking of his cubs or Destiny's Edge - his supposed warband at the time - when he went after Sohothin, when he was stomping around the Mists trying to find that dumb sword and reignite it? (This is meant to be a rhetorical question, by the way. It's stated several times in the story why he wasn't thinking about anything or anyone else. I even mentioned why a few times in my own post.)

> > >

> > > If stories - good stories at that - are supposed to entice a reaction from the reader, then I give kudos to whoever wrote this because it did just that. I didn't like Rytlock before this story and I hate him even more now after reading this.

> > >

> > > Hopefully the next two stories will be just as good considering they're also for characters I don't care for.

> > >

> > > ( For those of you who are in the pro-Rytlock camp who happen to read this and want to try to change my mind, don't. I don't mind discussing things I may have missed/overlooked in this story but my negative opinion and loathing for Rytlock as a character won't be changing. Save your keystrokes and time. )

>

> It's fine to dislike Rytlock. I think you can be understanding and sympathetic towards a character, however, without necessarily liking them. Rytlock wasn't raised the way you were raised or I was raised. Charr values are not Human values, and you can't look at them that way. I am sympathetic towards Rytlock from the perspective of how he was raised, and glad that Rytlock is showing that despite everything he actually does have the ability to evolve and mature as a character. That doesn't mean I like who he is, and certainly not who he was. Rytlock very much has always been a selfish character, and this story reinforces that. I am certainly interested to see how he evolves as a character from here, now that he has had a bit of an epiphany about himself. The story did a good job of instilling that imo. Just have to see if it sticks. The story also provided some interesting insights that were implied but not necessarily outright stated about charr culture as well.

 

Yeah, keep in mind that, from our POV at least, exploring a character doesn't necessarily mean getting you to like them more. In fact, some of the time it definitely doesn't. Our philosophy on storytelling is that it's driven by character and conflict, and by conflicts WITHIN characters: every character has something fundamental they want, and something they need, and the distance between the two of those things provides the road map of how they get from the first to the second. Sometimes they don't, of course, and that's tragic--but also, hopefully, moving. What we want is for you to care, good or bad.

 

The comments regarding Rytlock and his selfishness are well-taken; historically he's been pretty self-involved. In talking about him, our Narrative team has also come to feel that that cynical affect is also covering up some other, more complicated stuff, some of which Alex explores in the Twine piece. We actually jumped off of the Behind the Voice video Rubi did with Steve Blum,

in which he talked about how he can relate to Rytlock because he was small and got bullied growing up too, just like Rytlock. We thought that was a marvelous insight and window we could enter to start exploring Rytlock's psychology more deeply than we had before. For us, the contrast between the huge warrior Rytlock is and the small, vulnerable, picked-on cub he feels like inside was the perfect contrast to work with. He is an anti-hero with some deep issues, and that's catnip for storytellers.

[Tyson.5160]

> @"perilisk.1874" said:

> So, the Commander crying is now canon, huh? Would have thought s/he would have hardened up after the first 1000 NPCs were killed off. Where are Tybalt's tears, you kitten?

 

Aurene was described as a daughter to them... Like losing a child... Who doesn’t cry over that?

[hugo.4705]

Will never cry for aurene and never considered her as our daughter, it's mind parasitism. We only used her as a weapon. Whereas Tybalt was always a great pal, he clearly deserved some tears. Joko was awesome too, playing with us. Okay with scarlet but a bit cliché. Agent Batanga is very nice too.

[zealex.9410]

So.. When is Master splintugh i mean Ratlocughhh Rytlock, yes Rytlock. When is Rytlock gonna start telling shitty dad jokes?

[Randulf.7614]

> @"hugo.4705" said:

> Will never cry for aurene and never considered her as our daughter, it's mind parasitism. We only used her as a weapon. Whereas Tybalt was always a great pal, he clearly deserved some tears. Joko was awesome too, playing with us. Okay with scarlet but a bit cliché. Agent Batanga is very nice too.

 

Precisely. Aurene was never anything more than a tool to be used for the Commander (or at best a begrudging pet) and rarely did the story establish the connection as anything more. Caithe had more of that familial bond although it wasn't overly explored. By the time she "mind melded" with Aurene in ep5, it was lost almost immediately after and it lost any real impact.

 

Whilst I liked the 'thought train', I would have preferred that "daughter" line to have been left out given it didn't fit at all

[zeldara.4127]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> So.. When is Master splintugh i mean Ratlocughhh Rytlock, yes Rytlock. When is Rytlock gonna start telling kitten dad jokes?

 

You asked for it:

 

Rytlock: "Our cat is getting old, guess I will start calling him grandPAW"

 

(dodges the rotten tomatoes)

 

[Exalted Quality.8534]

thanks for explaining why rytlock is a biggity ole bish. very insightful. I have 2 requests (listed in order of importance)

 

1) can we pls get a tears of runtlock themed glider and mini-pet in the ? store?

 

2) can you actually start working on a balance patch now?

 

Thanks!

[perilisk.1874]

> @"Randulf.7614" said:

> > @"hugo.4705" said:

> > Will never cry for aurene and never considered her as our daughter, it's mind parasitism. We only used her as a weapon. Whereas Tybalt was always a great pal, he clearly deserved some tears. Joko was awesome too, playing with us. Okay with scarlet but a bit cliché. Agent Batanga is very nice too.

>

> Precisely. Aurene was never anything more than a tool to be used for the Commander (or at best a begrudging pet) and rarely did the story establish the connection as anything more. Caithe had more of that familial bond although it wasn't overly explored. By the time she "mind melded" with Aurene in ep5, it was lost almost immediately after and it lost any real impact.

>

> Whilst I liked the 'thought train', I would have preferred that "daughter" line to have been left out given it didn't fit at all

 

What, don't you remember that one time we carried her egg around for five minutes and then dropped her off at Eggcare, or the time we showed up for her hatching, and left her in the care of Caithe, or the time we played hide and seek a little and she failed to be of any help in fighting oozes and a boss, and then we left? I guess we also got to say hi a sec while being murdered, and we teamed up for a big fight. Oh, and who can forget the time she ate a dude?

 

Seriously, the Commander is like the worst dragon parent ever. At best, the PC treats Aurene as a powerful but serially absent guildmate.

[Maulclaw.4365]

This feels really out of character for Rytlock, especially when it comes to cubs. There's been a decade worth of content related to that charr and the whole 'family' business was never a concern for the character. I'm not even going to read Caithe's... I'd rather avoid another assassination of character.

[zealex.9410]

> @"RandomWolf.3986" said:

> This feels really out of character for Rytlock, especially when it comes to cubs. There's been a decade worth of content related to that charr and the whole 'family' business was never a concern for the character. I'm not even going to read Caithe's... I'd rather avoid another assassination of character.

 

It states why its wasnt a "concern" to the character, why it still largely isnt.

[Super Hayes.6890]

I don't have much to say except THANK YOU! I really enjoyed the writing and love that you guys are adding to the characters in this way. I don't always have time to game but reading is more often an option.

[Zychuu.7294]

It was great to read about Rytlock's past and how he got hold of Sohothin, but the part about his cubs was a little out of the blue imho.

 

[Sojourner.4621]

> @"Tom Abernathy II.5241" said:

> > @"Sojourner.4621" said:

> > > @"TheOrlyFactor.8341" said:

> > > > @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> > > > I really enjoyed Rytlock's story today.

> > > >

> > > > What did you think of the tale?

> > >

> > > Gonna copy/paste the post I made in the Lore section here because I'm too lazy to type it all out again. :P

> > >

> > > > @"TheOrlyFactor.8341" said:

> > > > I thought it was a well-told story. It really doesn't make me more sympathetic towards Rytlock though. If anything, it's made me less so. For all this talk about warbands and families and having cubs, he didn't (and in my opinion still doesn't) act like someone who has their priorities straight. It was all about him and his life. To Hell with everyone else. He talks about how important Destiny's Edge was to him, how he was loyal to them, how they were his warband/family yet it was him who decided to dissolve them and (from my perspective) abandon them in LWS3.1. It was him who decided to peace out and form Dragon's Watch with the Commander. He flees and retreats at actual failure rather than picking himself back up and pushing on, rather than check on those who managed to survive the confrontation with Mordremoth. I don't find that respectable in fictional characters or in real life.

> > > >

> > > > Rytlock being bullied as a cub is no excuse or justification for his behavior either. Instead of rising above his experiences, he let them control him. In an ironic twist, he kind of became a bully himself in the process, from my perspective. Him holding onto that tough guy shtick even at the end of the story is also concerning as I certainly think that's a harmful social byproduct of him being bullied. By making it about him, by having this tough guy/gruff facade up all the time, he hurt everyone around him: Destiny's Edge, Dragon's Watch, his cubs, etc.

> > > >

> > > > Sure, he's admitting _now_ that the whole thing with Balthazar was his fault but many of us know what they say about hindsight. The metaphorical horse is already out of the barn. Why wasn't he thinking of his cubs or Destiny's Edge - his supposed warband at the time - when he went after Sohothin, when he was stomping around the Mists trying to find that dumb sword and reignite it? (This is meant to be a rhetorical question, by the way. It's stated several times in the story why he wasn't thinking about anything or anyone else. I even mentioned why a few times in my own post.)

> > > >

> > > > If stories - good stories at that - are supposed to entice a reaction from the reader, then I give kudos to whoever wrote this because it did just that. I didn't like Rytlock before this story and I hate him even more now after reading this.

> > > >

> > > > Hopefully the next two stories will be just as good considering they're also for characters I don't care for.

> > > >

> > > > ( For those of you who are in the pro-Rytlock camp who happen to read this and want to try to change my mind, don't. I don't mind discussing things I may have missed/overlooked in this story but my negative opinion and loathing for Rytlock as a character won't be changing. Save your keystrokes and time. )

> >

> > It's fine to dislike Rytlock. I think you can be understanding and sympathetic towards a character, however, without necessarily liking them. Rytlock wasn't raised the way you were raised or I was raised. Charr values are not Human values, and you can't look at them that way. I am sympathetic towards Rytlock from the perspective of how he was raised, and glad that Rytlock is showing that despite everything he actually does have the ability to evolve and mature as a character. That doesn't mean I like who he is, and certainly not who he was. Rytlock very much has always been a selfish character, and this story reinforces that. I am certainly interested to see how he evolves as a character from here, now that he has had a bit of an epiphany about himself. The story did a good job of instilling that imo. Just have to see if it sticks. The story also provided some interesting insights that were implied but not necessarily outright stated about charr culture as well.

>

> Yeah, keep in mind that, from our POV at least, exploring a character doesn't necessarily mean getting you to like them more. In fact, some of the time it definitely doesn't. Our philosophy on storytelling is that it's driven by character and conflict, and by conflicts WITHIN characters: every character has something fundamental they want, and something they need, and the distance between the two of those things provides the road map of how they get from the first to the second. Sometimes they don't, of course, and that's tragic--but also, hopefully, moving. What we want is for you to care, good or bad.

>

> The comments regarding Rytlock and his selfishness are well-taken; historically he's been pretty self-involved. In talking about him, our Narrative team has also come to feel that that cynical affect is also covering up some other, more complicated stuff, some of which Alex explores in the Twine piece. We actually jumped off of the Behind the Voice video Rubi did with Steve Blum,

>

> in which he talked about how he can relate to Rytlock because he was small and got bullied growing up too, just like Rytlock. We thought that was a marvelous insight and window we could enter to start exploring Rytlock's psychology more deeply than we had before. For us, the contrast between the huge warrior Rytlock is and the small, vulnerable, picked-on cub he feels like inside was the perfect contrast to work with. He is an anti-hero with some deep issues, and that's catnip for storytellers.

 

Senpai noticed me!

 

Anyway, really cool stuff and thanks to all the writing team. I am a huge lore junkie and regardless of how it makes me feel about the characters, one way or another I want to read more. I am sure we all have our own vision of what each character is _really_ like, but I for one love seeing whether that image is confirmed or even when it's thrown out and something new comes to light that I hadn't considered.

[Cyanchiv.2583]

I enjoyed Rytlock's story. It was great to learn more about how his personality was shaped and to learn about what he really values in life.