Teon.5168 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 > @"Blastoise.6273" said: > It's true that there are more people than just big groups "own" or "speak" for the game mode. However, people in or following these large types of guilds do make up a big portion of WvW players. My understanding is that people come into WvW with enthusiasm or tolerating attitude that there will be PvP. With that said, when redesigning/updating WvW, it seems to only be things for the PvE players enjoyment. While this is my own assumption, I am under the impression that that majority of the people who enter WvW are doing so with the larger intent to PvP, not fight mobs.....or in this new update ride on one that can also break a door. I don't expect ANET to just pool all their resources into satisfying the PvP enthusiastic WvW guilds. That's just bad business. I can understand that. However, I will say what I personally see has been an issue in as far as the logic and approach to WvW updates rather than just satisfying one group. > > 1. The term "World vs World (WvW)" gave me the impression that it all about massive PvP. If it was about PvE, then I would just call it "World vs Environment (WvE)." I know, I know, semantics but you can see how that could cause confusion as the updates that have been made (inclusive of mounts) does not follow the path of the inherent phrase of WvW. I know people could argue that capping objectives is part of the WvW environment. I'm actually ok with it that part. I just personally want to see more PvP focused scenarios get some attention rather than only tools or bells and whistles that don't do anything for the PvP side. These updates mostly help the side of breaking doors that are better suited for PvE people. It doesn't do anything for the PvP stuff. > 2. Now don't get me wrong, I don't mind small bells and whistles here and there, but only as an added feature. I would prefer it isn't passed off as the only/main thing that they ever update on. They dress it up as this massive feature that everyone will get excited for. I would've welcomed this warclaw feature we already had those PvP scenarios in place. I'm sure the PvE enthusiastic people would appreciate it. Not sure about the PvP enthusiastic people though. I remember joking with some friends about mounts coming to WvW a year ago. We all laughed at how little we cared if that actually came to pass. We only cared if they made an update that actually gave us an interesting spin on PvP scenarios. > 3. Every update I've seen lately has done nothing to foster PvP scenarios. The only thing remotely close to that are balance patches. New siege weapons, tactivators, and even the KDR do nothing for PvP experiences. I'm mean, I guess that stuff is cool, but it isn't a PvP thing. KDR simply shows a measurement of PvP activity, but it really didn't do anything for the PvP aspect of WvW. Now that mounts are here are the new thing, it's just another mobile siege weapon to me. It still doesn't prioritize the PvP aspect of WvW. > > At this rate, it feels like WvW will become a game mode where you see enemy worlds....but you don't hurt each other. The only way to hurt each other is getting on defensive siege. It'd just become a PvE game mode with the added "race" feature. That's honestly what it feels like to me. Anything that fosters PvP seems to be a low priority to the ANET team. I can understand if whatever research the ANET claims to indicate that there isn't enough people in WvW that only wants a massive PvP situation. That could make sense to make it a low priority. But if that were the case, what's the point of having an environment built around the inherent idea of massive PvP? Might as well make it all PvE. > > Now, I'm not the type to say all of this without at least some kind of suggested solution. I know this may have a lot of flaws or opposing views with this but it was a thought in an effort to follow the inherent assumption of PvP or "WvW" side instead of the "WvE" side of things. An example of what I thought of before: > _When RBL was on that large revamp, they took Oasis from something very PvE (fighting mobs) to the same old thing in the Alpine BLs with spreading out and holding the points at all at once on a timer. So instead of doing that, I wondered what if they took that middle area and turned it into a large 3 way death pit every hour or something. Last server standing wins the bloodlust for the next round. At least this way, fights can ensue and people can actually fight each other instead of playing with tools that break doors._ > > If you're wondering why I'm focusing so much on the PvP scenarios of this game mode, it's because of that 1st reason: WvW inherently suggests massive PvP. I can't speak for the community of PvP enthusiastic people. This is just how i personally would like to see the path for WvW. If the game mode continues to do little to no moves to foster a higher PvP interest, there's no reason I wouldn't look into and/or trying other games....and I have been. I do enjoy Gw2 and hope it does change how I want to see it. But alas, I am only person. Very well said, and I agree with a lot of your points. I mean, if mounts are the next big thing for wvw, why not just give us all rabbit mounts so that we can just jump the walls of towers and castles and be done with it. I won't pass judgement until I see what this actually does to wvw......but I am not optimistic at all about it. Imo, it will make the Alpine maps like an arcade game, as those maps will become so incredibly small with mounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blocki.4931 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 > @"Gambino.2109" said: > > @"ResilientCrab.5162" said: > > > @"Gambino.2109" said: > > > Man.. all this talk about lag.. Yeah I remember that well when I use to play on a potato.. > > > Makes me wonder what specs people are running on their comp and what internet services they have.. cauuuuse I'm pretty sure anet can't fix all your lag problems > > > > It actually is server lag, i run a 1070 ti and an i7 7700k with 16gb of ram. The lag is more like me and my entire guild glitch out and rubber band for 30 seconds. > > Wow, I usually get the occasional bad ping, but a rubber band is probably the worst kind to deal with.. I mean there's also the frozen in place for a moment and dead the next but that was with the super old computer. > > But yeah, six years of this lag? Yikes This only happens with full blobs from all 3 servers clashing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teon.5168 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 > @"Mexi.2764" said: > I honestly believe we need a polling system where the anet team asks us what we want and at the end of the day we need our voices heard not sensored. > We used to have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teon.5168 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 > @"devious.4605" said: > > @"Naxos.2503" said: > > Need more info regarding that mount before crying wolf. > > > > Does everyone, without exception, and regardless of expansion packs get access to it ? (If no, then rage on.) > > > According to multiple media sources, it does require POF. > Pretty much saw the cash grab coming after poor 4th quarter earnings report. Yup. Gotta have PoF to get the wvw mount. Not to mention the money it will bring in due to skins being purchased. (Like skins will mean anything when the FPS plunges to 10-15 with huge mounted zerg battles). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Substance E.4852 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 > @"Mexi.2764" said: > I honestly believe we need a polling system where the anet team asks us what we want and at the end of the day we need our voices heard not sensored. > Anet doesn't need a poll to know people want matchup fixes that just magically work for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teon.5168 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 > @"ShinigamiPL.4086" said: > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > No more protecting the camps, no more resupplying, no more fixing the gates and locking the attackers inside... > Isn't that an inherent part of true WvW? It is in my book...../shrug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teon.5168 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 > @"Jasper Defthand.3018" said: > Am I the only one around here looking forward to the wvw mount? No longer having to rely on swiftness uptime to travel across the map to objectives hastily seems pretty good, and the rope siege ability looks cool. That will be true. What also will be true is that enemies will be able to react and get to you much faster when you're trying to take those across map objectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrGhosty.4296 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 > @"Naxos.2503" said: > Judging from this https://www.mmogames.com/gamenews/guild-wars-2-wvw-mount-warclaw-announced/ it Will upset balance by quite a lot, so I'm iffy about it now. > > For one, it's Path of Fire only, which arbitrarily locks a lot of potential new WvW players out, which is a bad deal for existing WvW ontop of the balance. > > Second, it has an attack, a siege and a dodge skill, which I assume will be usable Ontop of Bonds, which makes it far too powerful from the get go, unless you're a Path of Fire player and have the Opportunity to use that yourself. > > On the good side, it's useable outside of WvW, so that's a relatively positive thing for everyone involved. > > Overall though, I can understand the uproar from WvW, the only positive they'll get out of it is an increase interest in WvW, but those new players may not necessarily be interested in Staying in it, so it's a gamble at best. On the downside : it creates inequality between Path of Fire users and non-Path of Fire users, more so than glider ever could, because it gives access to a Lot of commodity to players who own it : Mobility, attack, siegeing, dodging, as well as extra HP for clever players. The fact that WvW player grievance are not heard is in my opinion still unfounded : They're working on Something, that much is clear, this is not so cheap cash grab, and has to be seen in the light of the upcoming alliance system, along with potentially more changes. It'll be messy for a while, and may end up a positive change when the whole thing is done. Until then, it's hard to say. I don't think it's unreasonable for Anet to put stuff behind an expansion any more than it would be "unreasonable" to expect them to pick it up in order to access the new elite specs. So anyone who is already dedicated to WvW likely already owns the expansion (and if they don't the xpacs seem to go on sale every other month or so.) For new players just dipping their toes in and deciding whether to not to invest in the game this is just yet another carrot to entice them. More expansions sold means more funds going into the game which helps everyone out (mileage between game modes will vary). If this mount is something that's only available for the top of the top then I will be bummed. As for the person who talked about this mode being all about tactical gameplay I really wish I played on your server because with a few exceptions most of what I see just tends to be two groups that slam into each other and the one with more of X wins. I am also a bit hesitant about how this could affect the current balance of things but I'm prepared to see how it all shakes out in the end. The mount itself looks really cool and the utility seems pretty nifty so I'll def. be grinding for it at least for when i'm out in PvE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 > @"Naxos.2503" said: >..., it'll only discourage Any potential new player from engaging in the mode, if the moment they explore the map they get ganked by 5 players on their mount and insta-killed. I have this problem now, before mounts have been introduced. Not sure adding mounts will up my interest in WvW enough to hang out in that arena. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acyk.9671 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 > @"Nightshade.2570" said: > I am looking forward to it, and your all fools if you arent hoping that more people play wvw so that not just a small group of people control everything... > So that ANET makes some money off WvW for a change and thusly funds new projects involving WvW that dont involve encouraging people to to transfer. > > Im so tired of people afraid of change it sickens me. They want ANET to change wvw but not really they want it to stay exactly the same until they are alone on a borderlands... The thing is, being able to engage the fight with it could potentially have a real negative impact on the gameplay but i would like to experience it before having an opinion. It feels a lot like a cash grab to milk WvWers like cows and i highly doubt the money coming from it will finance WvW development. Are people playing WvW ready to give money to Anet after their intentional lack of improvement to the gamemode? And when they tried, it was so badly implemented that the player base suffered from it quite heavily. Anet has taken WvW players for fools for so long, it is normal for us to be reluctant or at least anxious about any change. If it was a change to make objectives relevant again, rework skirmishes, have a reason to win or provide fight i'm quite sure the general opinion would be different. Having to wait almost 3 months for Anet to fix balance problems that should have been fixed a year ago isn't helping.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinigamiPL.4086 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > You're argument is flawed on the face of it because you assume a world without roaming thieves being giant pains in the kitten would be a bad thing. > > You're also making incredibly presumptuous statements about mechanics that we haven't even tried yet. Hell, we don't even know if Anet isn't also packaging in other changes to WvW along with this. > > People need to stop acting like they just announced permanent "Golem Rush" mode until we can actually play around with the thing. You are right. I do not know many things. This is why i put there this little wording " if i understand the idea correctly". Maybe i will be 100% wrong. Or maybe not. I can only hope i'm wrong. But from my perspective this is far more than bringing us the ability to move faster as some people say. It's not like "new map refreshing experience". And i do not like roaming thiefs - believe me. But they way i see this atm , i do have question about future of roaming at all - whatever class you pick. I'm looking forward to see the mechanic that allows revenants, thiefs, rangers to chase a guy on the mount. And how many times players will spend on camps if they can attack every single tower without preparations and resupplying. I'm not even mentioning how fast big blobs will be moving and how will that affect less populated servers. Plus dont forget that we do know how effective is Anet in wvw game mode in terms of solving the problems. I did play gw2 just after realese, long before HoT or PoF. And i'm not alone with the feeling that they didnt' manage problems that where there from the start. So maybe it would be safer to solve issues we have before introducing new revolutions. And i see how many people moved to ESO or other mmos and they didnt come back after gliding nor will they come for mounts. And they were very active wvw players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentKill.9586 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 > @"gebrechen.5643" said: > Remember when everyone said "Gliding will kill wvw." It didn't. > Stop telling everyone the sky is falling, when you have ZERO information. It's stupid. > > Let's wait and see what we get. > you must have just bought the game and do not know anet very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenesisII.1540 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 > @"Substance E.4852" said: > I mean, holy hell, do you guys even actually play WvW? Nearly the NUMBER ONE PROBLEM people complain about is getting from point A to point B. Running back to a fight is so obnoxious that people lose stuff avoiding otherwise meaningless death. > > This solves part of that problem while giving the mode more dimensionality which it desperately needs since people are obviously bored with the format as is. Not the number one problem for a wvw player, maybe for a pve player. If that was the case then they'd be better off just setting up waypoints in every structure. Also complaining about getting into a fight while on the way to a fight.. why even play wvw. If you're running a zerg build then do a better job of not getting detected before you get back to your group. Dying has to have some punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSeed.3528 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > @"Naxos.2503" said: > > > For one, it's Path of Fire only, which arbitrarily locks a lot of potential new WvW players out, which is a bad deal for existing WvW ontop of the balance. > > That is certainly an issue, but I suppose one shouldn't expect full support without the latest version of the game. Not having PoF specs tends to lock one out of the meta except for a few builds anyways. > > On the other hand, races do let you rent a mount though; wonder if they could do something like that here. > > Nope, just look at gliding. This will be pof only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vasdamas Anklast.1607 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Overall it made same impression on me as that diablo mobile announcement on BlizzCon Think I'll go have a look at that l2 remastered after all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juno.1840 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 > @"AcOpolitico.7568" said: > Thanks for this Thread. > EVERYONE should like this! > Please DON´T give the WvW a mount!!! > > I am also thinking about to quit this game! > Thanks for NOTHING @ ArenaNet "Mounts" definitely not the same as "Nothing". Everyone who says they are quitting WvW over mounts are flat out lying. The game mode has become stale and mounts will freshen it up a bit. The only thing players like you are accomplishing is discouraging ANet from implementing anything. Is that really what you want? You know what will really make people quit????? Anet actually doing "NOTHING". Bunch of spoiled players coming in to complain about something they haven't even tried... something new... to a game mode that desperately needs something new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphus.3061 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 It could have been worse. They could have announced WvW for Mobile. :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redseven.3985 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 100% agree OP. The one thing everyone was worrying it was going to be, it was. Either out of touch or they just don't care and will do w/e they feel like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naxos.2503 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 In my opinion, it'll cause balance issues on the sole logic that people play WvW without Path of Fire, and that does include free to play players. Yes, there is gliding, but Gliding doesn't have an attack skill, is slow, and cannot attack gates. On that basis alone, there will be a very big gap between players depending on the expansions they own or dont. Large gaps like these will have people complaining about how unfair it is that they're forced to buy Path of Fire to level the playing field, so it is in effect a form of Pay to Win. This coming from someone who owns Path of Fire and will have access to said mount. Upset players tend to not stick around a mode that essentially punishes them for not shelling out more cash. It's personally my biggest concern out of everything else. On the plus side, map mobility could be a boon, and monetizing WvW Could reinforce their interest in developping the mode further, there is not much use putting such a feature along with inevitable mount skins, if when all WvW players get it, there is no incentive for new players to do the same, so if they're smart, they'll make the mode more appealing to the broader playerbase and rejuvenate the WvW Community. Now I see those comments coming, but yes, that does mean WvW May become more casualized as a result, but you cannot have your butter, the cake, and the milkmaid. If population in WvW is an issue, casualizing the mode will certainly make it more accessible and more popular. As far as balance is concerned, I think WvW is the hardest mode to balance out of PvE and PvP and WvW, considering the sheer amount of variable, even when it comes to matchups. Considering the state of WvW, I'd suggest we take what we can get, and see how the devs carry it on afterward with the Added income and responsability to Keep that income steady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcOpolitico.7568 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 > @"juno.1840" said: > > "Mounts" definitely not the same as "Nothing". Everyone who says they are quitting WvW over mounts are flat out lying. > > The game mode has become stale and mounts will freshen it up a bit. The only thing players like you are accomplishing is discouraging ANet from implementing anything. Is that really what you want? > > You know what will really make people quit????? Anet actually doing "NOTHING". > > Bunch of spoiled players coming in to complain about something they haven't even tried... something new... to a game mode that desperately needs something new. Mounts are like NOTHING. They won´t freshen it up like, they will give a hype for about 2 weeks and then it´s over - great "fresh up"! And I don´t lie about quitting.. If the mount is that what I think it is, you won´t see me again in GW2 till it´s fixed, deleted or nerfed so no one wants it anymore. I complain about the real Problems in WvW - class balancing, enjoyable rewards for server, guild and player, A NEW MAP!?! - maybe WvW is a competitive game mode. Yes we need some changes but that ones - no gimmicks or something like that. I know that there are many problems between the devs and the WvW players but is it that hard to do something the players want? For instance the alliance system - I am looking forward to it. This is a good idea - maybe the first really joyable one! I know what you mean and I think you are right, mounts aren´t nothing, but they are nothing compared to existing problems in WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrior Xsr.1672 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Next thing you know.... They will have a fast car that can shoot down walls and gates. Mounts are so crazy! <-----Complete sarcasm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaeys.3102 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 > @"AcOpolitico.7568" said: > > @"juno.1840" said: > > > > "Mounts" definitely not the same as "Nothing". Everyone who says they are quitting WvW over mounts are flat out lying. > > > > The game mode has become stale and mounts will freshen it up a bit. The only thing players like you are accomplishing is discouraging ANet from implementing anything. Is that really what you want? > > > > You know what will really make people quit????? Anet actually doing "NOTHING". > > > > Bunch of spoiled players coming in to complain about something they haven't even tried... something new... to a game mode that desperately needs something new. > > Mounts are like NOTHING. They won´t freshen it up like, they will give a hype for about 2 weeks and then it´s over - great "fresh up"! > And I don´t lie about quitting.. If the mount is that what I think it is, you won´t see me again in GW2 till it´s fixed, deleted or nerfed so no one wants it anymore. > I complain about the real Problems in WvW - class balancing, enjoyable rewards for server, guild and player, A NEW MAP!?! - maybe > WvW is a competitive game mode. Yes we need some changes but that ones - no gimmicks or something like that. > I know that there are many problems between the devs and the WvW players but is it that hard to do something the players want? > For instance the alliance system - I am looking forward to it. This is a good idea - maybe the first really joyable one! > > I know what you mean and I think you are right, mounts aren´t nothing, but they are nothing compared to existing problems in WvW. There is a balance patch coming next week as well. And the last time they gave us a new map, people screamed and yelled at them to the point where I don't really blame them for being wary of trying anything new in WvW. At least them try something new - small or large - without literally complaining about it before it is even in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redseven.3985 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 > > There is a balance patch coming next week as well. > > And the last time they gave us a new map, people screamed and yelled at them to the point where I don't really blame them for being wary of trying anything new in WvW. > > At least them try something new - small or large - without literally complaining about it before it is even in the game. > It does not need to be "in the game" to foresee the problems that will arise. A "balance patch" is not going to be enough (it hasn't been so far). There needs to be a very concentrated effort here. As for a new map, simply implement a pole. Give us 3 options and let us vote. It's really not hard to plz wvw players just use basic common sense. Radical change no one asked for in a competitive game mode is obviously not going to work out well.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 > @"Redseven.3985" said: > > > > There is a balance patch coming next week as well. > > > > And the last time they gave us a new map, people screamed and yelled at them to the point where I don't really blame them for being wary of trying anything new in WvW. > > > > At least them try something new - small or large - without literally complaining about it before it is even in the game. > > > > It does not need to be "in the game" to foresee the problems that will arise. A "balance patch" is not going to be enough (it hasn't been so far). There needs to be a very concentrated effort here. As for a new map, simply implement a pole. Give us 3 options and let us vote. It's really not hard to plz wvw players just use basic common sense. Radical change no one asked for in a competitive game mode is obviously not going to work out well.. No offense, but it sounds like you are hard to please. Right now you are judging the book by its cover. Wait until it’s out, open it up, read a couple chapters and make an educated evaluation of what is presented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gebrechen.5643 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 So, sky is falling, guys? All the negativity and bullshittery for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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