Discussion Thread: ArenaNet News of 21 February 2019 [Merged]

[Randulf.7614]

> @"scrumsome.7198" said:

> > @"kurfu.5623" said:

> > > @"Jura.2170" said:

> > > If Anet really needs more money to keep going, would it help if they removed turning gold into gems?

> > >

> > > How would you feel if they did that?

> >

> > It's an "exchange" - the gems you buy with gold came from a player that bought gems with real money.

>

> Could you please link to anything where Anet is confirming this?

>

 

There's a little in here

 

There was more clarity in the old forums, but I haven't found that. The statement from the person you quoted has been confirmed by the former gw2 economist before though

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I could be wrong but what I got from the articles was arenanet pulled resources from gw2 development team whether it was members or funds to try and grow by branching out into new projects which is usual expansion. Unfortunately it seems like they did this prematurely as usually a company expands when It can do so without negatively impacting its main project,the very project providing the finance of the new projects. Now if the new projects grew successfull worst case gw2 players would have dealt with lack of support as they have been noticing over the last couple years but in the long run the business may have faired very well.unfortunately seems like they weren’t ready to take on other commitments and not only has the development of gw2 suffered the last couple yrs for it but the projects are now cancelled due to what I can only assume was due to lack of progress in nsofts eyes ultimately who’s money is being used for the projects u cant really blame them for saying enough is enough. They stated that all these ongoing projects were causing un sustainable draws on their funds so lay offs arnt a surprise. That what I got from the articles though I could be wrong so.

[Aediph.2873]

Seems like a lot of folks are concerned more with money, and not enough about the passion in developing games these days. I'm reminded of when Earth & Beyond, along with City of Heroes and a few other MMORPGs shut down. Game experiences come and go, within an ever-changing landscape.

 

(Saw a few mentions of WoW. I haven't played WoW in over 5 years o_o how time flies)

From Space, to Planet-side, to abstract. I'll still be playing the games that I enjoy, regardless of what company is backing the development teams. When I no longer enjoy a game, I simply don't play it.

As a gamer and, secondly, a consumer: The games I love are the ones I buy and play to my hearts content. : ) I'd like to think others feel the same way.

[Opopanax.1803]

I hope Gaile Gray and MO pass the cut...

[Behellagh.1468]

Again, in the last 4 quarters GW2 made 80 Billion Korean Won (roughly $70 million USD). Third in revenue among the 5 PC MMOs that NCSOFT break down in their quarterly reports. GW2 is still over 60% of the revenue from the NA+EU region. The game is still doing ... alright. But not at those staffing levels which is the issue.

 

The NCSOFT mothership would (likely) really like them to focus on a more predictable revenue stream with expansions every few years rather than spend any excess trying to "expand" with other games. Yes this reminds me a bit with what happen to COH/COV with Paragon; except that GW2 is earning 6-7x the earning that City of Heroes reported in their last 4 reported quarters; with pulling the plug on any new IP. With the shut down of Carbine, ArenaNet is the only studio they have in NA left.

[Behellagh.1468]

Plus, if your convert the last year's revenue into "bulk" sub/vip rates of $12 a month, it would still be over 490,000 players.

[Bast.7253]

With there already being multiple threads on the matter, it would seem more beneficial to try to assemble our thoughts and concerns within the context of one thread. If you have concerns or thoughts, it's important to be at worst- non-bias, and at best, sensitive, thoughtful, and to use common sense. Let's have a mature and non-emotionally charged discussion.

 

To start off with my thoughts, as I've iterated in countless other threads by now.

 

The News of Lay-offs and What We Know

While even the discussion of the subject will seem at least a little insensitive to those affected, it's a discussion worth having.

1. We know it will be a fairly large number, and we know that it's caused by an unannounced project.

2. We have an official response stating, "We will be moving directly from Living World Season 4 into Season 5 as promised, and we plan to continue a regular cadence of updates and releases."

3. This implies that the current trajectory of Season 4 and Season 5 is still in the works.

 

What We Don't Know

1. We don't know what's to come after season 5, or if an expansion was being worked on during this time.

2. We don't know why the reasoning behind switching to Season 5 after Season 4, which could have been a decision to create more time for expansion development, a decision to make a non-expansion related plot separate from the plot of season 4 seem more cohesive in advance of the potential expansion, or a simply a new decision to release living story content in place of expansions as their new content delivery model.

3. To tie into the previous, with statements being made about receiving expansion level content with living story updates, if expansions are no longer the preferred development we do not know what kind of expansion-level content this could entail. I.e. Elite specializations, larger features like Mounts/Gliding/Guild Halls/new Armor and Weapon assets in the same quantity as an expansion/other features that are of a larger scope than to be expected within a living story update. This statement could solely be referring to story delivery and instanced content.

4. We don't know the current amount of people working on each team, or even decisively what teams there are working on Guild Wars 2, only a few announcements made here and there regarding restructuring and assumptions made based on past explanations of living story team format with an alternate fractal/raid release format with each episode.

5. We don't know how many resources in general have been put into Guild Wars 2 and not funneled into the unannounced projects.

 

The Rumors and My Reasoning

A compiled list of rumors based upon assumptions made from releases this season as well as everyone's favorite Twitterer.

 

1. We have rumors that developers have been pulled from Guild Wars 2 to these unannounced projects, this is somewhat inspired by one of the Twitter responses. We know that there has been quite a bit of restructuring this season alone that has changed up development. We have been told countless times that resources are fairly thin and it has been cited several times when asked why a particular aspect wouldn't get any new development, because it would sacrifice upcoming content. It's not unreasonable, but it stands to reason if resources and staff is being shuffled off to other projects, that they are most likely scraping by to deliver what they have in the time frame that they have. We have had a few hiccups this season in which delays have been caused due to production issues, whether it was stated to be for the benefit of quality assurance, restructuring, or changes made to benefit future releases. I'm certainly inclined to believe that a large part of these decisions was due to these unannounced projects and less focus on Guild Wars 2. It is possible that some of these beneficial changes may not truly be seen until Season 5, as it may have been too late in development in Season 4 for them to take effect, but that's relying on faith of content that hasn't been delivered yet. The one reason why I would believe this to be the case, is that it would be risky to make these suggestions only to have the same problems arise after they have supposedly taken effect. This is particularly troubling because it implies that no only are we essentially getting less than we could be, but that the developers still involved with Guild Wars 2 are undoubtedly putting in a colossal amount more effort to meet expectations that we as consumers didn't understand were as unrealistic. This speaks volumes about the developers involved with these releases as well as the people making the decisions to put these developers in the positions they are in, over there heads and blamed for something that is completely out of their control. To that, there will of course be volatile responses and negativity no matter what the outcome, but potentially enforcing a strict communication policy as one of many tools to censor and veil these kind of decisions only makes matters worse for everyone.

 

2. We have rumors that what we as Guild Wars 2 players spend is potentially funding more of these unannounced projects than it is Guild Wars 2, as the Guild Wars 2 has lost the focus and these unannounced projects have been consuming enough to warrant the parent company to step in and force them to refocus their efforts on their flagship product. This doesn't sit well with me as I would like to think that I'm funding the game I know and love and the people that work to make it that way, and not the idea of someone who had the power to make a seemingly reckless decision with resources, to the point that the game I play's content is potentially harmed by such decisions.

 

3. We have rumors, as previously discussed, that the expansion model is being dumped in favor of living story updates. You could look at this several ways. One - the living story updates could be more beneficial if given the same features as an expansion but delivered more frequently. Two - this is done to keep what steady balance they have with production while leaving minimal focus on Guild Wars 2 while the unannounced projects receive the bulk of the resources and attention. Three - they believe that this model is just more lucrative overall. Personally, I would be inclined to believe 2. Of course, it's the most pessimistic option, but if a parent company comes in and tells you to refocus your efforts, it could be partially due to the fact that siphoning resources and personnel to unreleased projects while leaving your largest product running on as few cylinders as manageable raised a red flag.

 

The Response from ArenaNet Team

"We know you have a lot of questions about the future of Guild Wars 2. We want to share with you what to expect moving forward for the game. First and foremost, we are still fully committed to all of our players and ongoing support of the game. We will be moving directly from Living World Season 4 into Season 5 as promised, and we plan to continue a regular cadence of updates and releases.

We know Guild Wars 2 is important to you, and as our players, you are important to us. Rest assured that we are still working to add great new content to the game. We are deeply grateful to all of you for your support during this difficult time."

 

While this was a very quick response and one that wants to be uplifting, I can certainly understand the sentiment that doesn't quite hit the mark. Of course, expecting an elaborate response at this time would be unreasonable either way, especially given how recently this news was released. But for me personally and many others, I think a big issue with it is the fact that it answers a question most of us weren't asking. I think most people with common sense realized that Season 4 and 5 already having been in development weren't at risk of being canceled. And "regular cadence of updates and releases" is fairly vague. Again, all of this is to be expected and there hasn't been enough time to provide anything other than a slightly hopeful but overall vague response. My biggest issue with it however, is with what people are interpreting from it. Reading this as solid evidence that Guild Wars 2 will not be affected by something of this magnitude seems a bit delusional. Sure, it's possible that Guild Wars 2 won't be affected because the only people affected by the lay-offs will be the ones working on the unannounced projects and the current teams will remain the same. But that's not likely. The likely scenario, along with letting go of positions that aren't deemed absolutely necessary, is that they will keep the strongest and most beneficial. Some of the strongest and beneficial may have been ones working on these other projects. So, then we have the issue of another restructuring. We have people being moved out of Guild Wars 2 and others moved in, which comes with its own set of challenges in the form of catching the new team members up to speed whether it be general work flow or overall story and design decisions that have already been made. It's not realistic to assume that this will have absolutely no impact. It's also not logical to assume that this won't cause potentially major changes for undeveloped releases, or affect the cadence of already planned releases. After all, we have confirmation that the releases are still planned, not that they are planned and on schedule, which in and of itself has been a little hard to nail down as it falls outside the original 2-3 months. The negativity toward the current release cadence is another thing I think could have been somewhat avoided if we had known that, speculatively, there are less resources and developers involved with said releases.

 

 

 

Of course, everyone will have their own speculation. The game is obviously still earning plenty of money to stay afloat, and I don't think anyone could question that. Obviously, this is a delicate subject, especially for the creators of our beloved game, but I think it's one worth having non-the-less. Despite the insensitivity, as I believe they themselves have expressed, showing passion towards the product is a good sign. Ambivalence shows lack of demand, and lack of demand leads to uncertainty, reduced productivity, and potentially diminished inspiration.

 

 

To close out my thoughts, I wish the best to all of those affected by this and whether it be chalked up to corporate greed in favor of more profitable venues, mismanagement and poor decisions, or a hopefully not but possibly typical day as someone employed in the game industry... I hope that your next step is rewarding, fruitful, and filled with that feeling of fate closing one door to open one even better. And to the ones remaining, I hope that despite the low morale, you're still filled with passion about what you do despite the circumstances, and that you shrug off any regret you may have and realize for every doubt or fear you have, there's a player gleefully spamming space bar eager for their next adventure, a player sitting on their tiny asura with the feeling of being a child again, a player finding their next scantily clad outfit and pumping it up with as many particle effects as possible with pride, a pair of friends endlessly failing at jumping puzzles, a guild introducing a new player to the wonders of Shadow Behemoth, or a group of 50 complete strangers working together to slay an overgrown worm. And I hope that you remember that each of those players is undoubtedly thankful for the opportunity you have given them to express themselves in a way that they can only do in a virtual word, connect with people in a way that they may feel incapable of in the real world to combat the loneliness they carry with them each day, or simply feel a sense of magic and excitement that lets them escape from the chaos, mundanity, or general stress of what they wake up to. It's not an easy feat to have that kind of impact on that many people, and no matter how big or small the job you do, at some point whether it was an inspiring conversation you had with a colleague in the break-room, or the last-minute ambient dialogue you added and were afraid nobody would notice, or the attention to detail that made you realize that the light hitting that one tree by that one rock would give it an added sense of realism and depth, you made a difference.

 

[psyt.9415]

I hope that when the dust settles some of these employees become more loose lipped under cover of anonymity. I'm curious how much of our hard earned dollars spent on GW2 was funnelled into NCSofts bullshit side (most likely mobile) projects believing the NA market is similar to the Korean market. There better be some sort of GW2 expac in the works. I would be pissed if all that revenue was was being funnelled into some garbage GW2 mobile game. We seen what happened to Blizz with Diablo. We'eve seen IO take back the Hitman franchise from Square and Bungie take back Destiny for Activision, maybe Anet should take back GW2....

[phs.6089]

I'm starting to think they will pull [Valve](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-Life_(series) "Valve") rather then Blizzard

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Yet, no one complained when other NCSoft games' revenue was used to finance the creation of Guild Wars 2....

I suppose what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander, nowadays.

[Danikat.8537]

Look at it this way: Because NCSoft funded the creation of GW1 and GW2, and quite likely the expansions as well, Anet were contractually obligated to give them that money, regardless of what NCSoft did with it. So it almost doesn't matter what they used it for, it wasn't going to be kept by Anet anyway.

 

You may as well complain that Anet also give "your" money to their employees, who may well use it to pay for things you don't approve of - including other games. But once you've given it to someone else it ceases to be your money and you get no say in how it's used. (Beyond the terms of the transaction of course - if you pay for a service and don't receive it you can complain, but it's not up to you how that money is used next.)

[Goettel.4389]

I think it was around seven. Maybe eight.

Units.

Of something.

[Randulf.7614]

How they spend your money is largely not our business since you get a return already for it. I totally get people thinking it helps guide the business but the reality is it is t that simple.

 

This isn’t an Anet or NCSoft thing either, businesses owned by others often move investments around subsidiaries. Profits from other games no doubt funded gw2 which seems to be acceptable?

 

If you are hoping for full transparency then I wouldn’t hold my breath to be honest.

 

 

 

 

[Randulf.7614]

When things stabilise I do agree we need a roadmap and expac clarification tho

[Erasculio.2914]

> @"psyt.9415" said:

> I hope that when the dust settles some of these employees become more loose lipped under cover of anonymity. I'm curious how much of our hard earned dollars spent on GW2 was funnelled into NCSofts kitten side

Nothing.

 

Based on what we have been told, the money earned from GW2 was used to fund ArenaNet projects that didn't work, not NC Soft projects. The money didn't go to Carbine or to fund Blade & Souls; people from ArenaNet were working on games other than GW2 (remember how ArenaNet was hiring people with experience in mobile games?).

 

As maligned as NC Soft is for City of Heroes and Wildstar, this time the blunder appears to have happened within ArenaNet.

 

[Leo G.4501]

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> Yet, no one complained when other NCSoft games' revenue was used to finance the creation of Guild Wars 2....

> I suppose what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander, nowadays.

 

I'm glad there are some people that understand what a publisher does. Do people honestly think that development studios just have money to make their dream games? Or that the loans they take out are just paid back the day the game is put on the market? Or that there aren't obligations when you loan people millions of dollars for years and years?

[MDove.2391]

Deepest, Well Wishes to All the Anet Team. Amazingly Beautiful game.

 

*SALUTES*

[Jura.2170]

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> NCSoft games' revenue was used to finance the creation of Guild Wars 2

 

How much did it cost?

 

Each year and in total before release?

[Yargesh.4965]

> @"Jura.2170" said:

> > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > NCSoft games' revenue was used to finance the creation of Guild Wars 2

>

> How much did it cost?

>

> Each year and in total before release?

 

1. How would anyone outside of the game know?

2. How is it anyone's business outside of the game besides arrogance?

[Bloodstealer.5978]

OP.. I have already posted comments to the kind of posts like yours that appeared in other threads, but I will give it another go..

Set up your own business launch a product and sit back and hope that product keeps you afloat and moving forward forever.. maybe then you will realise ANET have a responsibility to their business, their employees, shareholders and maybe even a little to us players to ensure that the business remains viable. That means new projects need to be identified, new ideas tried out. Some will work and many wont, that is how it works. Do you think GW2 was just bank rolled by ANET off the back of a previous product that was beginning to show signs it had seen to many winters, what do you think should happen when blips occur in revenue do you allow it to become not just a blip but potentially a growing trend..

Do you -

A - Go bury your head in the sand and hope by tomorrow all will be good again in the world, business as usual.

B - Ask anyone and everyone to offer you charity in the hope it plugs the deepening hole that the revenue stream is pouring down.

or maybe

C - Plan ahead, take action, look into other ideas and new products that the company can add to its portfolio that might generate new additional revenue streams so as to not to continue to place so much reliance on a 6yr old product that is inevitably going to be faced with decline if it hasn't already.

Sorry but the worst thing any business can do is stand still imo and trust to luck.

 

As for your hard earned dollars.. yep they are hard earned, but you chose to use them to buy something which you deemed of value to you.. that hard earned dollar isn't yours any longer it is ANET's.. cos you know they also worked hard to earn it... believe it or not ANET is a business with overheads, as is NC Soft, they are not charities set up to provide you with your fun fix and from the point you agreed to buy anything from them that is the last time you have any say in what the business does with that dollar.

You may not like any particular facet of the business, whether that be NC Soft, ANET, Blizzard, Activision, Turbine or whatever/whoever, they may not like you but you choose to put money into the coffers, it is up to ANET/NC Soft as to how it gets spent, what it is spent on and that includes GW2 related content or other potential projects.. you are supporting the business that provides you access to GW2. without revenue you don't get to play GW2 period. Similarly if the business cant remain viable cos a 6yr old product is beginning to show signs of decline those other projects might just of been a lifeline to many employees throughout ANET/NC Soft and vice vera.. some of them proved to not be viable, others may still be in the pipeline.. we have no idea how or what effects they may or may not of had on GW2 other than the fact that if new products were never to be looked into there wont be a GW2 anyway cos they all have relevance to the business viability as a whole.

[Gehenna.3625]

> @"Randulf.7614" said:

> How they spend your money is largely not our business since you get a return already for it. I totally get people thinking it helps guide the business but the reality is it is t that simple.

I think that people who dropped a lot of cash on gems do have a fair reason to ask this question since the return is a lot less for them than what they put into it. But even the whales will have to realize that their investment into the game, doesn't actually make them an investor. So that should be food for thought.

> This isn’t an Anet or NCSoft thing either, businesses owned by others often move investments around subsidiaries. Profits from other games no doubt funded gw2 which seems to be acceptable?

That's pretty much true in my opinion as well.

> If you are hoping for full transparency then I wouldn’t hold my breath to be honest.

Agreed. That will never happen

 

 

[MrThebigcheese.2014]

Haven't played in years.

 

They should have actually made Guild Wars 2 with the classes everyone knew and loved. Not the bizarre, no roles nonsense they launched with. It was hard to come back from that. They went from arguably the best class system in any of these games to one of the worst.

[Gehenna.3625]

> @"wickedkae.4980" said:

> I am now also on hold purchasing any more gems, or really, even playing. Not going to sink time into a game that will not exist in a few months. We need some answers. We aren't getting an xpack, which is a staple of MMO's, so this is a real bad sign that this game is done.

 

Although I understand the fear people may have, I really don't think this puts GW2 at risk of closing down in a few months and the unfortunate reality is that if people stop putting money into this game, well, that will definitely lead to the end of this game. If anything the cost reductions that are achieved by letting people go will ensure the game gets more time rather than less. I don't blame you for not wanting to spend your money on gems but that's the one thing that keeps this game alive and nothing else. Choose wisely.

[FrizzFreston.5290]

Well, consider that if they had put all that money on GW2 related projects the question would be: "How many longterm GW2 projects will be binned?" instead.

 

Whether a next expac or a gw3 was in the works, or a mobile game or a whole different game, **does it matter**? In the end all that work was for nothing, and we will never see the result. To claim GW2 would've done better, is equally pointless as they would most likely have to cancel stuff further along the line just as much.

 

Rather be glad they did invest on something that GW2 can hopefully do without. Not that it's equally wasteful to see that effort gone to waste either way.

[Swagger.1459]

Please read these first…

 

http://www.danieldecker.net/successful-marketing-starts-with-the-wiifm-factor/

 

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/36063/old-forum-thread-about-balance-that-s-worth-reading

- https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/home/leaving?target=https%3A%2F%2Fforum-en.gw2archive.eu%2Fforum%2Farchive%2Fbalance%2FPvX-Balance-Iteration-Wrongdoing

 

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/8080/forbes-interview-and-my-thoughts-on-competitive-gameplay-development

 

EVERYBODY uses a character to go through this game world. THAT IS THE COMMON FACTOR in all of this regardless of what mode you prefer. It has been made VERY CLEAR that the profession and build options in GW1 WERE WELL LIKED. Even older games like City of Heroes, which DID NOT hold a candle to the GW2 world and story and graphics and maps and rewards… HAD FAR BETTER CLASS DESIGNS THAT DREW A VERY STRONG EMOTIONAL CONNECTION. City of Heroes was shut down, but you have like 4 different projects going on to GET THAT “HERO” feeling and connection back, that's NOT present in tons of games, while playing a character. PLAYERS LOVE THEIR CHARACTERS, want to see them grow and feel like a “hero”, so making characters better IS A PRIORITY THAT CAN’T BE IGNORED. With that stuff said, lets move on…

 

We need to avoid being passive when it comes to generating money for the game. Everyone in the equation benefits for better sales numbers. So I present the following ideas...

 

MEANIGFUL DIRECT SALES TO GENERATE REVENUE

 

OPTIONAL paid “ViP” membership… which includes

- ALL subscribers earn a new currency using this type of idea. Yes, the thread obviously says "veteran", but can be tailored for ANY PLAYER WHO HOLDS AN ACTICE SUB... https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/66248/veteran-reward-system

- Permanent booster effects https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Booster

 

While having an active optional sub, players earn “prestige coins”, can spend “prestige coins” and have all major buffs as permanent effects.

 

MORE NEW ITEMS ON THE GEM STORE MORE FREQUENTLY

- There are too many recycled items on the store

 

LEAVE ITEMS UP PERMANENTLY PERIOD

- It’s kinda really really meh to tell a customer, WHO WANTS TO SPEND MONEY, to wait on spending that money.

 

TWICE PER YEAR UPDATES (in addition to LW and balance "stuff")

- SUMMER- PAID E-Specs Pac NOT not tied to an Xpac.

- WINTER- (LESSER THAN CURRENT STANDARD COST) PAID Mini-Xpac

 

That becomes 2x per year the team gives stronger, AND MORE MEANINGFUL, updates to the game outside of Living World updates.

 

INDIRECT SALES THAT GENERATE BUZZ AND INTEREST OUT IN THE MMO REALM AND ON GAMING NEWS SITES

- Profession improvements (do you know how much press, buzz and interest WoW’s class revamp got? A TON).

- Raid difficulty settings (END GAME NEEDS TO BE ACCESSIBLE FOR ALL YOUR PLAYERS, NOT JUST SOME).

- Upgrade game engine to address LAG (this has to be ongoing for a game like GW2 that INTENTIONALLY piles massive amounts of players together by design).

- THERE IS A MARKET FOR RvR GAMEPLAY… People are already asking if Camelot Unchained will have combat as good as GW2. AND HANDS DOWN, Arenanet does open world the ABSOLUTE BEST out of ANY fantasy MMO out there… Can you imagine if professions 2.0 happened and Anet put the “magic” into our “open world” WvW? https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/62658/alliance-design-that-stops-the-qq

 

PROFESSIONS 2.0 IDEAS FOR THE FUTURE

- https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/62555/putting-fun-back-into-designs-and-balancing

- https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/28024/increasing-ttk-undoing-old-split-changes-and-eliminating-skill-splitting

- https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/9804/wvw-only-movement-skills-since-we-have-mounts-now

- https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/44028/ideas-to-tone-down-offensive-aoes

- https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67283/i-would-like-to-discuss-visual-tells-for-wvw

- https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/64920/weapon-and-build-diversity

- https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/21472/missing-weapon-sets-for-professions-and-some-suggestions

- There are also missing slot skills across professions (stuff like no Ranger Trap Elite Skill for example) that should be completed.

 

MORE EDITS COMING