Discussion Thread: ArenaNet News of 21 February 2019 [Merged]

[Kam.4092]

You know, when you think about it, having 400 employees should have kept the game updated more frequently. Having 400 employees should have caused better marketing. I really don’t understand what all 400 would even be doing. The main content is Gem Store content. We will never know now. I just hope they end up learning a lesson from this, and push out more content, while doing a better job marketing their great game.

[Tyson.5160]

> @"Xstein.2187" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > @"Xstein.2187" said:

> > > > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > > > @"Xstein.2187" said:

> > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > > > > > @"OutOfOrder.3719" said:

> > > > > > > Hopefully this is a wake up call that producing more gemstore skins does not generate significant Revenue in the long run. Or perhaps your price model of 2000 gems is ridiciously over Priced.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Do you have the stats for this?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Creating end game content has always been where MMO's have had the most success.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Keep developing PvP, WvW, Raids, Fractals. And actually introduce a new game type Guild Vs Guild utilizing the PvP rune/amulet system already.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Actually if things are going to get cut it will be the PvP, WvW and Raids... I’m not expecting that this is the case right now, but if it ever got that bad, the items that don’t make money will not get development time, kinda like what is currently happening.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > I wouldn't be so sure about that. One individual who wants legendary armor but doesn't want to raid would pay big bucks for converting gems to gold to pay for clears and achievements. I don't think you have stats for this either.

> > > > >

> > > > > p.s. gems price isn't the issue. They can change gem store item prices however they like and conversion costs are always set by supply and demand.

> > > >

> > > > Not saying Raids would get deleted, but development on future wings would cease. You would still have people converting gems for Legendary Armor for example, but hypothetically you could see the devs cease Raids production after Wing 7 and the raid Legendary ring is finished. For the continuation of products like Expansions, living world and mount skins.

> > >

> > > Ya, I know what you are saying, I just disagree with your reasoning for why. Just because raids only attract a small portion of the player base doesn't necessarily mean it makes a smaller percent of gem income. It could, but you don't know this. For all you know, much of their gem income could come from a small percent of the player base that spends lots of money for clears, achievements, and raid skins through gem/gold conversion.

> >

> > When comes down to it, if I had to make a choice between Expansions/Living World and Raids, I would have to choose the former. I don’t have the exact stats, but I’m sure most people would make the same choice.

>

> If it was a zero sum game, I would agree with you. However, the raid team makes up a very small percent of the staff compared to the living world and expansion team. Getting rid of the raid team would not be the same as getting rid of the living world team. The numbers are totally different. I agree with you that most enjoy the living story a lot more. However, simplified hypothetically, as a company if you had 100 people paying $5 a month and 2 paying $500 a month, what are you going to do?

 

I mean unfortunately we can really only speculate of course without getting proper stats.

[garpu.6210]

I lurk on the forums, but I've been playing since the original Guild Wars days. All the best to the people at ArenaNet. :(

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I would not be able to pay a subscription, but I wondered about it after reading people suggesting crowd-sourcing, etc.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> I would not be able to pay a subscription, but I wondered about it after reading people suggesting crowd-sourcing, etc.

 

Maybe optional subcription with the option to sell and buy content drops as dlc ala ESO. /shrug

[Vayne.8563]

> @"Xstein.2187" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > @"Xstein.2187" said:

> > > > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > > > @"OutOfOrder.3719" said:

> > > > > Hopefully this is a wake up call that producing more gemstore skins does not generate significant Revenue in the long run. Or perhaps your price model of 2000 gems is ridiciously over Priced.

> > > >

> > > > Do you have the stats for this?

> > > >

> > > > > Creating end game content has always been where MMO's have had the most success.

> > > > >

> > > > > Keep developing PvP, WvW, Raids, Fractals. And actually introduce a new game type Guild Vs Guild utilizing the PvP rune/amulet system already.

> > > >

> > > > Actually if things are going to get cut it will be the PvP, WvW and Raids... I’m not expecting that this is the case right now, but if it ever got that bad, the items that don’t make money will not get development time, kinda like what is currently happening.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > I wouldn't be so sure about that. One individual who wants legendary armor but doesn't want to raid would pay big bucks for converting gems to gold to pay for clears and achievements. I don't think you have stats for this either.

> > >

> > > p.s. gems price isn't the issue. They can change gem store item prices however they like and conversion costs are always set by supply and demand.

> >

> > Not saying Raids would get deleted, but development on future wings would cease. You would still have people converting gems for Legendary Armor for example, but hypothetically you could see the devs cease Raids production after Wing 7 and the raid Legendary ring is finished. For the continuation of products like Expansions, living world and mount skins.

>

> Ya, I know what you are saying, I just disagree with your reasoning for why. Just because raids only attract a small portion of the player base doesn't necessarily mean it makes a smaller percent of gem income. It could, but you don't know this. For all you know, much of their gem income could come from a small percent of the player base that spends lots of money for clears, achievements, and raid skins through gem/gold conversion. The other thing I am worried about is downward spirals. You could make lots of money on something. However, because you don't have the resources to develop that said something, you may never know if will make money lots of money in the first place.

 

As far as I can see, raids themselves didn't do the damage, but the idea that the game which had been casual for 3.5 years and suddenly turned more hard core with Heart of Thorns did cost the company. I complained about this happening back then and I've said it all along.

 

As an author, I know that you can't change the direction a book is going in without a very good reason and without losing some of your readship. You make a comedy, changing it to a western halfway through will lose you readers. Those that came for the comedy.

 

This game was dead casual for 3.5 years and people cried on the forums for harder content. But the people who post on forums are never the majority of any MMO. And there were, apparently, a lot of people who wanted more easy content rather than harder content.

 

There was no gradual ramp up from core to HOT. The difficulty spike was extreme. That was badly done. I said it then, I say it now. It definitely cost the company players. Did enough raiders join the game to replace the casuals who left due to increasing difficulty. It seems unlikely considering how many raiding games are actually out there. WoW is going to have more raids. FF XIV is going to have more raids.

 

Anet had one thing that made is special/different and instead of running with it, they changed direction and it cost them. HoT was not well received, even though some people like it now. The problem with raids is that it added to the over all feel that this game is no longer for the casual. It made people feel, rightly or wrongly, that the game was no longer theirs.

 

Up until raids, I could get virtually everything in PvE in the game. I can't get legendary armor without raiding and I won't be forced into raids, nor will I spend gold to pay other people to raid for me, because that's not why I play games. I bought a game without raids and Anet changed it on me. Ever since then this game has been a bit less mine. It had been completely mine and they took away just a bit.

 

But if you add in the complexity of HoT zones, and the difficulty of HoT mobs (which I loved but a lot of people didn't), you have a fiasco on your hands. Raids didn't cause that. But raids provides a convenient scapegoat for it. In the mean time, I'm not convinced raiding added to the bottom line of the game, since the perception disenfranchised so many people. Particularly because for 9 months after HoT launched the only updates were PvP tournaments and raids. A lot of casual players walked away during time and never looked back.

 

It's easy to blame raids, but in and of themselves, they weren't the issue. But the perception of raids certainly contributed to a casual exodus and it's my believe casuals spend more money than hard core players.

[Xar.6279]

Casuals plays GW2 because its b2p/f2p game. So they dont have to spend money on it. That's why they're here. And they tells that openly very often.

While:

 

WvW players plays GW2 because they like Mass-PvP. So I am pretty sure alot of them would spend money if their game mode would be supported enough.

 

 

PvP players plays GW2 because they like to PvP. So I am pretty sure alot of them would spend money if their game mode would be supported enough.

 

 

Raid players plays GW2 because they like Raiding. So I am pretty sure alot of them would spend money if their game mode would be supported enough.

 

Meantime: PvP is almost dead. Raids? same. WvW? Oh. W8. What's WvW?

So its not weird that game dont make enough money. People dont want to pay for nothing.

 

And as we can see casuals can't support this game enough. Even mount skins didnt make enough money.

[gregor lightbringer.7143]

I would only like to suggest is to fix what needs to be fixed and get back to what made the GW series great.

[X T D.6458]

Sad to hear. This is the current trend among gaming companies looking to rework their business models to adapt to a changing playerbase and evolving customer demands.

Hope it all works out eventually, Anet is one of the good ones. On a more positive note though the gaming industry is booming so jobs are available with many companies.

[Avelione.6075]

I wish ANet was free from any bigger company looming over them. Why do they fire people? How about cutting your big salaries, people at the top? ;p

[X T D.6458]

> @"Avelione.6075" said:

> I wish ANet was free from any bigger company looming over them. Why do they fire people? How about cutting your big salaries, people at the top? ;p

 

Its called business, and sometimes you have to cut costs to save it.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"Jura.2170" said:

> If Anet really needs more money to keep going, would it help if they removed turning gold into gems?

>

> How would you feel if they did that?

 

Here's the choice you have to make about that.

 

Either:

 

+ Gems purchased with gold are put into the exchange by players buying those gems with RL money. There is a 15% surcharge (similar to the one on the TP) so that every 100 gems put in yields 85 gems that a player can obtain via gold. This means that the gold for gems exchange actually makes ANet more money than they'd make if the exchange did not exist; _or_

+ That's not how the exchange works, and ANet put a mechanism into the game that cuts their revenue stream.

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Currency_exchange

[Avelione.6075]

> @"X T D.6458" said:

> > @"Avelione.6075" said:

> > I wish ANet was free from any bigger company looming over them. Why do they fire people? How about cutting your big salaries, people at the top? ;p

>

> Its called business, and sometimes you have to cut costs to save it.

 

Costs? You mean, cut off people to not pay them salaries.

[X T D.6458]

> @"Avelione.6075" said:

> > @"X T D.6458" said:

> > > @"Avelione.6075" said:

> > > I wish ANet was free from any bigger company looming over them. Why do they fire people? How about cutting your big salaries, people at the top? ;p

> >

> > Its called business, and sometimes you have to cut costs to save it.

>

> Costs? You mean, cut off people to not pay them salaries.

 

Its called overhead which affects whatever product or service a company is offering, and if you let it blow up everyone loses their job when the company goes out of business. Emotions cant be mixed with logic and reality. The gaming industry is changing (as all do at some point) and if a company wants to stay in business it has to adapt. Unfortunately layoffs are part of that, it is nothing new, its terrible, but it is also essential at times for a company to survive and rework itself to come out stronger.

[Avelione.6075]

> @"X T D.6458" said:

> > @"Avelione.6075" said:

> > > @"X T D.6458" said:

> > > > @"Avelione.6075" said:

> > > > I wish ANet was free from any bigger company looming over them. Why do they fire people? How about cutting your big salaries, people at the top? ;p

> > >

> > > Its called business, and sometimes you have to cut costs to save it.

> >

> > Costs? You mean, cut off people to not pay them salaries.

>

> Its called overhead, and if you let it blow up everyone loses their job when the company goes out of business. Emotions cant be mixed with logic and reality. The gaming industry is changing (as all do at some point) and if a company wants to stay in business it has to adapt. Unfortunately layoffs are part of that, it is nothing new, its terrible, but it is also essential at times for a company to survive and rework itself to come out stronger.

 

Well, I hope it does so, cause if this is business, than business like this sucks!

[Jevati.4328]

It's annoying to see people freaking out like this is the end of GW2 or something. I feel terrible for the employees who will be layed off, but that in no way means GW2 is doomed or even in trouble.

 

Let's just send good thoughts to the employees and keep enjoying the game we love (or, whining incessantly about it on the forums, take your pick).

[MHaastrup.6978]

> @"X T D.6458" said:

> > @"Avelione.6075" said:

> > > @"X T D.6458" said:

> > > > @"Avelione.6075" said:

> > > > I wish ANet was free from any bigger company looming over them. Why do they fire people? How about cutting your big salaries, people at the top? ;p

> > >

> > > Its called business, and sometimes you have to cut costs to save it.

> >

> > Costs? You mean, cut off people to not pay them salaries.

>

> Its called overhead which affects whatever product or service a company is offering, and if you let it blow up everyone loses their job when the company goes out of business. Emotions cant be mixed with logic and reality. The gaming industry is changing (as all do at some point) and if a company wants to stay in business it has to adapt. Unfortunately layoffs are part of that, it is nothing new, its terrible, but it is also essential at times for a company to survive and rework itself to come out stronger.

 

> @"X T D.6458" said:

> > @"Avelione.6075" said:

> > > @"X T D.6458" said:

> > > > @"Avelione.6075" said:

> > > > I wish ANet was free from any bigger company looming over them. Why do they fire people? How about cutting your big salaries, people at the top? ;p

> > >

> > > Its called business, and sometimes you have to cut costs to save it.

> >

> > Costs? You mean, cut off people to not pay them salaries.

>

> Its called overhead which affects whatever product or service a company is offering, and if you let it blow up everyone loses their job when the company goes out of business. Emotions cant be mixed with logic and reality. The gaming industry is changing (as all do at some point) and if a company wants to stay in business it has to adapt. Unfortunately layoffs are part of that, it is nothing new, its terrible, but it is also essential at times for a company to survive and rework itself to come out stronger.

 

Add to this that layoffs tend to find better jobs with a higher salary too.

[X T D.6458]

> @"Avelione.6075" said:

> > @"X T D.6458" said:

> > > @"Avelione.6075" said:

> > > > @"X T D.6458" said:

> > > > > @"Avelione.6075" said:

> > > > > I wish ANet was free from any bigger company looming over them. Why do they fire people? How about cutting your big salaries, people at the top? ;p

> > > >

> > > > Its called business, and sometimes you have to cut costs to save it.

> > >

> > > Costs? You mean, cut off people to not pay them salaries.

> >

> > Its called overhead, and if you let it blow up everyone loses their job when the company goes out of business. Emotions cant be mixed with logic and reality. The gaming industry is changing (as all do at some point) and if a company wants to stay in business it has to adapt. Unfortunately layoffs are part of that, it is nothing new, its terrible, but it is also essential at times for a company to survive and rework itself to come out stronger.

>

> Well, I hope it does so, cause if this is business, than business like this sucks!

 

It does suck yes, and I hope it all works out for them. Lets all just wish them the best, maybe buy some gems ;)

[Puma.3645]

-moved to another thread-

[Xar.6279]

Where are those mystical casuals which spends alot of their money in gem shop when they just received (few weeks ago) new living story episode. Whole new map. New mount skins, etc etc?

Oh. Maybe they just logged for about 2 hours and just left? As always?

What if its all about pvp, raid and wvw players which are here daily. Playing their favorite, but broken and unsupported modes?

And also paying for casuals, to let them login once per 4 months?

[X T D.6458]

> @"MHaastrup.6978" said:

> > @"X T D.6458" said:

> > > @"Avelione.6075" said:

> > > > @"X T D.6458" said:

> > > > > @"Avelione.6075" said:

> > > > > I wish ANet was free from any bigger company looming over them. Why do they fire people? How about cutting your big salaries, people at the top? ;p

> > > >

> > > > Its called business, and sometimes you have to cut costs to save it.

> > >

> > > Costs? You mean, cut off people to not pay them salaries.

> >

> > Its called overhead which affects whatever product or service a company is offering, and if you let it blow up everyone loses their job when the company goes out of business. Emotions cant be mixed with logic and reality. The gaming industry is changing (as all do at some point) and if a company wants to stay in business it has to adapt. Unfortunately layoffs are part of that, it is nothing new, its terrible, but it is also essential at times for a company to survive and rework itself to come out stronger.

>

> > @"X T D.6458" said:

> > > @"Avelione.6075" said:

> > > > @"X T D.6458" said:

> > > > > @"Avelione.6075" said:

> > > > > I wish ANet was free from any bigger company looming over them. Why do they fire people? How about cutting your big salaries, people at the top? ;p

> > > >

> > > > Its called business, and sometimes you have to cut costs to save it.

> > >

> > > Costs? You mean, cut off people to not pay them salaries.

> >

> > Its called overhead which affects whatever product or service a company is offering, and if you let it blow up everyone loses their job when the company goes out of business. Emotions cant be mixed with logic and reality. The gaming industry is changing (as all do at some point) and if a company wants to stay in business it has to adapt. Unfortunately layoffs are part of that, it is nothing new, its terrible, but it is also essential at times for a company to survive and rework itself to come out stronger.

>

> Add to this that layoffs tend to find better jobs with a higher salary too.

 

Great job market right now, so silver lining. I hope they all find a new home :heart:

[Puma.3645]

> @"Xar.6279" said:

> Where are those mystical casuals which spends alot of their money in gem shop when they just received (few weeks ago) new living story episode. Whole new map. New mount skins, etc etc?

> Oh. Maybe they just logged for about 2 hours and just left? As always?

> What if its all about pvp, raid and wvw players which are here daily. Playing their favorite, but broken and unsupported modes?

> And also paying for casuals, to let them login once per 4 months?

 

im one of those mystical casuals. and to be fair its not even about us anymore. every aspect of the game is just a bit underwhelming right now. i keep coming back for the story because theres nothing to do in between when youve got 200+ mastery level. whats there to log in for if you have no social connections in the game? i love pvp but even the maps are like the same as when i started 4 years ago. and sometimes i rage too hard in pvp so i dont play that much

[crosknight.3041]

Jim Sterling was right, publishers are about that short gain.

while anet has stumbled with some of it's monitization ~~looking at the lootbox bollocks~~ it has mostly been great and should be a good example of a live service.

 

MASS LAYOFFS SHOULD NOT BE NORMAL! from the kotaku article linked arlier

 

"Songyee Yoon, the CEO of Korean publisher NCSoft West, which owns ArenaNet, e-mailed employees this afternoon with the news. “Our live game business revenue is declining as our franchises age, delays in development on PC and mobile have created further drains against our revenue projects, while our operating costs in the west have increased,” she wrote."

 

maybe instead of firing a bunch of people the CEO should take a pay cut like nintendo is known to do when they are having financial failures.

 

it's like every few months we hear about mass layoffs in the game industry, and again it should not be normal.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> I would not be able to pay a subscription, but I wondered about it after reading people suggesting crowd-sourcing, etc.

 

One way WoW does it, you can buy subscriptions from other players with gold. A player will buy a subscription with real money from Blizzard and place it on their ‘Trading Post’ for another player to buy with gold. Players can buy more than one month’s worth and store it in their inventory till they want to use it. That could be one possibility if they added subscriptions to this game.

[crepuscular.9047]

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:> I wonder....if the game was in danger of going down, would players be more accepting of a subscription-model?> Would that 'save' Guild Wars2 and/or ArenaNet?subscription is pretty much dead... even WoW is shifting part of the business model through WoW Tokens to sustain their player numbers, because they know that people in this time and age are reluctant to pay for subscriptions

what i've seen with a few other games i had played in the past is there are two different special currencies, the ones you can get free in game will cost more to get the same item from the shopwhat anet could possibly do is copying the model by introducing an alternative gem that can only be purchased with real money; lets just call it 'bounded gems', and the current gems lets call it 'unbounded gems'bounded gems can be traded into gold like unbounded gems, but you get more gold, BUT you cannot convert gold back to bounded gems, only into unbounded gemsbounded gems can purchase items from gems store at the current gem cost; the cost to buy gem store items through unbounded gems would be higher compared to bounded gemsnow the tricky bit is monitoring the conversion rate of unbound gems and gold, it needs to take the amount of liquid gold in the economy into account just like central banks with their monetary policies, not just by buyer vs seller, which was the model they took from GW1's material tradingit would be a complex formula