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Discussion Thread: ArenaNet News of 21 February 2019 [Merged]


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While staff bloat due to cancellation of other projects is likely the biggest issue, I am afraid you can't make massive cuts without damaging a lot of developmental flow. It will take time for administration to figure out who will go. It will ruin the company's morale. It will likely take out at least a few people who were shifted to GW2 development after their project got cancelled. Overall this is not a good thing for GW2. However only time will tell just how bad this actually is.

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> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> > > Production is too slow, better lay of some workers so we produce even less and people spend even less money on our company

> >

> > the lay offs are because of an unannounced project being cancelled, gw2 is mostly unaffected by it

> For all we know, one of those unannounced projects might have been the next expac. At this moment i'd really want to hear Anet's official confirmation that there _will_ be a next expac, and that they aren't going back to ls-only release mode.

> If that's not true, i'd really want to hear it now as well, but a silence on this issue i'll also consider a kind of answer confirming that the game did get into a lower investment life support mode.

>

 

At least some of them were mobile titles, not the next expansion.

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Mobile cancellation is probably the main reason and I hope for a follow-up, but I'm a CoH vet. They were profitable but not profitable enough and NCSoft killed it. They probably could have gone to maintenance mode and still made money for years, but not NCSoft's way.

 

So I'm a _little_ concerned.

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> @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > > > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > > > > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > > > > > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Danikat.8537" said:

> > > > > > > > Saying we'll still get Season 5 after Season 4 actually tells us a lot. It means their plan hasn't changed as a result of this decision, and we're going to get at least 7 more living story releases,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Why at least 7? Why not at least 3 or 4?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > seasons tend to be 6 episodes plus the final episode f the current season

> > > > > > 6+1=7

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 3 more episodes suggests season 5 is 2 episodes long

> > > > > Doesn't mean they will do so again. I might remind you that if they would've stuck to their usual patterns we would've gotten an expansion this year after LS4. That didn't happen either. So there's no telling how long LS5 will be. What I do know is that the longer it is, the longer we have to wait for the next expansion, provided there will be one.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > they might change the length of season 5.

> > > > but even so, a 2 episode season? that's a tad bit absurd.

> > > >

> > > > also anet never established a pattern with seasons and xpacs.

> > > LS1 is gone. It was a different situation altogether and no longer is part of the game. Season 2 lead to HoT, Season 3 lead to PoF. Not so strange to think that Season 4 would lead to the next expansion, except it won't as we know. And yet that's what people were expecting initially.

> > >

> > > Now a season of 2 episodes would be strange, but then I never mention the number 2 so not sure why you use that number. But bottom line is that you cannot say what the minimum would be. So far LS2, 3 and 4 had 8, 6 and then 5 chapters. I don't see where you got your ideas.

> > >

> >

> > release> bit of a drought > season 1 > season 2 >1 year of nothing > hot > post-hot mess > season 3 > pof > season 4

> >

> > also you said

> > > Why at least 7? Why not at least 3 or 4?

> >

> > 3-1(one more episode of season 4 has been confirmed)=2

> I guess I missed the announcement that another season 4 episode was coming, but your "formula" still doesn't make sense. How does your formula explain going from 8 to 6 episodes from season 2 to 3? If you say that LS5 will have 7 episodes because LS4 will have 6, then clearly by that same reasoning season 3 should've had 9 episodes and not 6...

 

your math is off.

 

the 7 episodes i'm refering to are season 4 ep 6 and season 5 ep 1-6 not season 5 ep 1-7. it would mean season 3,4 and 5 have the same amount of episodes.

 

it's possible they'll change the amount of episodes of season 5 but i'll doubt they'll go below 5

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> @"Behellagh.1468" said:

> A company with a single product is a doomed company. ArenaNet needs to look at developing another product. Their primary source of income can't just be GW2 or the company will eventually be doomed.

 

It seems they followed exactly that advice, and it backfired, at the cost of their single product.

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> @"Kam.4092" said:

> You know, when you think about it, having 400 employees should have kept the game updated more frequently. Having 400 employees should have caused better marketing. I really don’t understand what all 400 would even be doing. The main content is Gem Store content. We will never know now. I just hope they end up learning a lesson from this, and push out more content, while doing a better job marketing their great game.

 

To be fair, Guild Wars is still one of the smoother running MMOs that even with population drops and shifts, has maintained a good player base over this many years. They have also delivered A LOT of content in game over these years and whether or not you (the general you not you specifically) enjoyed all of it or not, it still hasn't been a small undertaking so 400 employees isn't too crazy of a number.

 

All that being said, its rather unfortunate that I think some of what has hurt Anet has been the very thing they've been relying on as of late to stay out of the red. Micro-transactions for revenue are fine, but they were sitting hard into those mount skins and I still feel made a VERY big tactical error when they introduced them with the fervor over loot boxes, and instead of really listening to the outcry, they opted for placation and token changes that made MANY people like myself go from "I'll buy skins if you change this loot box thing and make them reasonably priced" and put us squarely in the "never going to buy a single skin" category. Add to that the number of people who haven't even bought PoF and yeah, you have a dire situation that cannot support those 400 employees. Or rather it can't live up to their projected numbers so good people will lose their jobs. We're seeing the same thing at other companies right now that ended up losing money when players stopped accepting being turned into walking ATMs. Thats not a sustainable business model and its not going to end well for Anet.

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_We can confirm that due to the cancellation of unannounced projects, ArenaNet will make staff reductions. This is part of a larger organizational restructuring within NCSOFT in the west, but the Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 game services will not be affected, nor is any upcoming game content canceled._

 

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-02-21-arenanet-reportedly-bracing-for-mass-layoffs

 

 

Do not panic, Gw2 is safe. It looks like ANet and NCsoft want to centralize their priorities - Guild Wars 2 is among them.

 

It was all planned to happen, but it's more about who will leave Anet, because no one is safe, even the Main composer or Lead Designers, but changes have to come. And restructuring is the first and hardest step to make.

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> @"X T D.6458" said:

> Sad to hear. This is the current trend among gaming companies looking to rework their business models to adapt to a changing playerbase and evolving customer demands.

> Hope it all works out eventually, Anet is one of the good ones. On a more positive note though the gaming industry is booming so jobs are available with many companies.

 

A)

I would say the MMO market is pretty flat while the market for Indie games are booming. The reason why the MMO market became this way is simple said greed and absolute dishonestly with their customers . The model is p2win or p2progress behind lootboxes(or random upgrades) . People just said bye to those games one earlier some people later.

 

The other problem is the majority of MMO which are published in the western world are Asian MMOs which have a complete different gaming philosophy to exaggerated it western players play a god , asian players play on a one-armed bandit. This results in Asian MMO having here a limited audience.

 

Gw2 is in the western world besides WoW and maybe Final Fantasy the only big MMO because of its style and monetization model. 90% of all players we get as a gild a returnees who quit other MMOs because they are dead.

 

B)

NCSoft is listed on the stock market these days you are in for trouble if your company is listen on one. Problem is not only demand the stock holders more money but they also start to meddle with the internals of a company which can lead to changes in the monetization model or company direction but to be honest most of the time they cut companies into pieces demanding to sell even part which makes still profit so that they company should focus on market segments where they see grow potential.

 

Which in my opinion is more then often delusional or worse the ones with grow potential are sold.

 

The reason why they are so hyper aggressive is too much money resulting in no more investment options and low yield on stock and return on capital. The money float comes from China and the federal banks after 2008(FED, EZB). Also this is part of a larger cycle of boom and bust. Here and example of too much money : https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/03/04/warren-buffetts-116-billion-cash-problem-will-it-b.aspx

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I feel bad for the people being laid off and the people who will remain working as they will now have to likely also increase their workloads without additional pay.

 

This hits both the fortunate and unfortunate to be honest.

 

People here are talking about dead maps and gems and how badly the game needs a engine update this is all true and we all know it. Anet has to know it and while we do appreciate the shiny stuff in the gem story we also love being able to do new content. Its about time living world goes back to not adding a new map every time. WE DO LIKE NEW CONTENT IN OLD MAPS. There is nothing wrong with doing this and while gating core accounts out from this content would be impossible who knows maybe it gets people on core accounts to buy the expansions in the end. New core player sees crazy event an gets curious and buys the x packs for the story to find out whats going on etc.

 

I do like going back to areas from gw1 or just new areas in general but i dont think we need to do it with every story release.

- it slows down the release of new content as new maps have to be made and tested / walled off to prevent map breaks

- it gates players without x packs 100% out of living world content meaning they have no reason to even buy something when all they get is a email saying new content click here to buy.. show them some of this content in game and get them interested!

- quality of life can be focused on in all modes over building new maps for 2 hours of story every 3 months in 1 map that gets dull after a month unless it has a meta worth Farming and even then 3 months later the map gets forgotten about in the next living world story.

 

Its called living **world**

We need to see whats happening in other parts of the world anyways the old parts HOW IS THE CURRENT STORY AFFECTING THESE OTHER PLACES?!?!? its the Living world but only small niche spots are being focused on ideally several other parts of the world should be as well. Why not even move some of living world over into WvW events even.

 

With new content old maps we could expect

- higher populations in older maps

- less time between living world updates

- other modes to finally get some love wvw and pvp are both in a mess right now

- possibly **feature pack** updates (I REALLY MISS THESE) I want new missing skill types to be filled in, and other small quality of life updates. *necro player* WHERE IS MY ELITE SIGNET AND WELL

 

BUT

Yes I hope this does more good than bad anet show us that you can be the one company to turn this around rather than just let it keep you down. I never thought ESO or Blade and Soul would out last GW2 let my thoughts be wrong here. You have a great game but it has its problems in every mode that need to be addressed.

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> @"Behellagh.1468" said:

> A company with a single product is a doomed company. ArenaNet needs to look at developing another product. Their primary source of income can't just be GW2 or the company will eventually be doomed.

 

IF the game is good enough it can be the main source of income for a long time actually

See World of Warcraft not counting the past 5-6 years (give or take a few more) or so but everything before that. That game thrived for a very very very VERY long time as one of blizzards main games its not impossible to do but it requires great focus and care be put into the game. In but in the years of 2016 up till now really thats something that seems to be lacking in the pc gaming industries specifically with mmos to a greater extent.

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> @"Arden.7480" said:

> _We can confirm that due to the cancellation of unannounced projects, ArenaNet will make staff reductions. This is part of a larger organizational restructuring within NCSOFT in the west, but the Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 game services will not be affected, nor is any upcoming game content canceled._

>

> https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-02-21-arenanet-reportedly-bracing-for-mass-layoffs

>

>

> Do not panic, Gw2 is safe. It looks like ANet and NCsoft want to centralize their priorities - Guild Wars 2 is among them.

>

> It was all planned to happen, but it's more about who will leave Anet, because no one is safe, even the Main composer or Lead Designers, but changes have to come. And restructuring is the first and hardest step to make.

 

From the article:

> As of September, ArenaNet employed around 400 working on **various projects**, though the studio's primary focus has been on Guild Wars 2 and its subsequent expansions.

 

and

> We can confirm that due to the cancellation of unannounced projects, ArenaNet will make staff reductions

 

and

> For those of us working on GW2, our mandate was essentially to make it look like there was the same level of resources devoted to GW2, when they were actually steadily moving people off of it onto the other projects.

 

It looks like they are gonna fire people that were working on "cancelled" products? Not the actual game itself?

 

Although I might sounds as rude, I must say that in some very selfish/cynical way I'm actually happy. Not happy for the employees that will get fired of course, as it's unlikely that it was their fault. At least those left with the company will be working on Guild Wars 2 and not a shadow "side project" that was draining resources and manpower. It was making it look like Arenanet has far less employees (judging by the release schedule) so now that the "extra project" was cancelled, the developers that will stay, will be all Guild Wars 2 developers.

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This may be a bit random and not completly related but most of the people that left the game around HoT (me included) are hardly coming back... one of the big complains i saw was the adition od Raids and the massive focus on them that Anet as put in, leaving people that would like to have a more semi-hardcore experience to bite the dust, there were no new dungeons added even after so many LW releases and two full expansions... (OK HoT was kinda a quarter of an expansion at release), but even so...

 

I saw lots of guilds getting disbanded with HoT release, also alojside with that Guilds also lost there usefulness once you can be in multiple guilds at once and removing the benefits of representing a guild wne t along with it.

 

And in regards to Guild Wars in the terms of PVP the only Guild Wars that Guildwars has is its name.

 

I have to say ... it's a shame, this game had so much raw potencial and was ahead of it time... I still remeber the first time i got into game, the music, the art style, the combat system - for the first time in all MMO's i have played before i could atack while moving away from aoes , everyting was great... even what at one point people stated cursing (the first season of LW) was fantastic and more epic... the Karka event an only-once event was fantastic ...

 

In regards when the base game went on a limited Free-to-play it has created an artifical influx of new players ... but like everyting .. things come and go ...

 

That said, I wish the best for the people that are being let go.

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I really think GW2 only has two major problems that help drive players away:

 

1. Slow/weak content/feature/balance updates (both communication and actual updates) fails to sustain player interest in the game. Why do we still have no new weapon types, no alternate weapon skills, no way of preserving builds, no new dungeons, no new races and only 1 new class? And why are PoF zones still so mob-crazy? Why do we not have shifting reward metas that can help keep the game fresh by encouraging players to hop around the world instead of just farming silverwastes and istan?

 

 

2. Heavy-handed over-monetization of rewards has the opposite of the desired effect - people get burned out by being overloaded with expensive choices and stop spending altogether. Even though I'd normally be very interested in buying mount skins, I never do because they're overpriced and there are too many of them. **When they decided to charge $25 for skins they were releasing regularly and could only be obtained through the gem store it was a strong sign they were headed down a path of sinking the game through over-monetization.** They took something that should have been game-saving and, through short-sighted greed and ignorance about consumer psychology, all but made it game-ruining instead. If I was working for Anet, I would have fought tooth and nail against the idea of $25 mount skins and pushed hard to oust whomever was behind that decision.

 

Even though layoffs always are hard, maybe they can use it as an opportunity to shift their whole execution model around new content in a way that can benefit the long term health of the game. Putting more energy into real content, intelligent balance updates, and in-game rewards and less energy into the gem shop and samey-same living world updates will likely **increase** the amount players spend.

 

Here's keeping my fingers cross that GW2 can really live up to its potential instead of being sunset over the next few years.

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> @"Einlanzer.1627" said:

> Even though layoffs always are hard, maybe they can use it as an opportunity to shift their whole execution model around new content in a way that can benefit the long term health of the game. Putting more energy into real content, intelligent balance updates, and in-game rewards and less energy into the gem shop will likely **increase** the amount players spend.

 

The layoffs are for those that were working on unannounced projects of Arenanet, not those working on Guild Wars 2. Those extra projects were cancelled.

This won't affect Guild Wars 2 in a negative way. Or, if anything, it will be "better" in a sense that employees of Arenanet won't be allocated to those other projects instead of working on Guild Wars 2.

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> @"derd.6413" said:

> > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > > > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > > > > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > > > > > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Danikat.8537" said:

> > > > > > > > > Saying we'll still get Season 5 after Season 4 actually tells us a lot. It means their plan hasn't changed as a result of this decision, and we're going to get at least 7 more living story releases,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Why at least 7? Why not at least 3 or 4?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > seasons tend to be 6 episodes plus the final episode f the current season

> > > > > > > 6+1=7

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 3 more episodes suggests season 5 is 2 episodes long

> > > > > > Doesn't mean they will do so again. I might remind you that if they would've stuck to their usual patterns we would've gotten an expansion this year after LS4. That didn't happen either. So there's no telling how long LS5 will be. What I do know is that the longer it is, the longer we have to wait for the next expansion, provided there will be one.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > they might change the length of season 5.

> > > > > but even so, a 2 episode season? that's a tad bit absurd.

> > > > >

> > > > > also anet never established a pattern with seasons and xpacs.

> > > > LS1 is gone. It was a different situation altogether and no longer is part of the game. Season 2 lead to HoT, Season 3 lead to PoF. Not so strange to think that Season 4 would lead to the next expansion, except it won't as we know. And yet that's what people were expecting initially.

> > > >

> > > > Now a season of 2 episodes would be strange, but then I never mention the number 2 so not sure why you use that number. But bottom line is that you cannot say what the minimum would be. So far LS2, 3 and 4 had 8, 6 and then 5 chapters. I don't see where you got your ideas.

> > > >

> > >

> > > release> bit of a drought > season 1 > season 2 >1 year of nothing > hot > post-hot mess > season 3 > pof > season 4

> > >

> > > also you said

> > > > Why at least 7? Why not at least 3 or 4?

> > >

> > > 3-1(one more episode of season 4 has been confirmed)=2

> > I guess I missed the announcement that another season 4 episode was coming, but your "formula" still doesn't make sense. How does your formula explain going from 8 to 6 episodes from season 2 to 3? If you say that LS5 will have 7 episodes because LS4 will have 6, then clearly by that same reasoning season 3 should've had 9 episodes and not 6...

>

> your math is off.

>

> the 7 episodes i'm refering to are season 4 ep 6 and season 5 ep 1-6 not season 5 ep 1-7. it would mean season 3,4 and 5 have the same amount of episodes.

>

> it's possible they'll change the amount of episodes of season 5 but i'll doubt they'll go below 5

My math isn't off. Your math just isn't making any sense. So really you need to better explain your calculations. I also doubt they'll go below 5, but your reasoning for saying it's 7 minimum so far doesn't make any sense at all.

 

 

 

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> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Einlanzer.1627" said:

> > Even though layoffs always are hard, maybe they can use it as an opportunity to shift their whole execution model around new content in a way that can benefit the long term health of the game. Putting more energy into real content, intelligent balance updates, and in-game rewards and less energy into the gem shop will likely **increase** the amount players spend.

>

> The layoffs are for those that were working on unannounced projects of Arenanet, not those working on Guild Wars 2. Those extra projects were cancelled.

> This won't affect Guild Wars 2 in a negative way. Or, if anything, it will be "better" in a sense that employees of Arenanet won't be allocated to those other projects instead of working on Guild Wars 2.

 

That doesn't necessarily mean it won't impact the workstream organization around Guild Wars 2. It should, in all honesty.

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> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> Although I might sounds as rude, I must say that in some very selfish/cynical way I'm actually happy. Not happy for the employees that will get fired of course, as it's unlikely that it was their fault. At least those left with the company will be working on Guild Wars 2 and not a shadow "side project" that was draining resources and manpower. It was making it look like Arenanet has far less employees (judging by the release schedule) so now that the "extra project" was cancelled, the developers that will stay, will be all Guild Wars 2 developers.

 

The only questionable part about that is what if extra un announced projects included possibly a 3rd xpack for gw2 or season 6 etc.

We really have no way of knowing. On top of this anet needs to give us a road map now and i mean more than what they have told us so far that the game will continue into season 5.

 

Now is the time to lay out a hard strong road map for at least the next year or two with detailed specifics about what is planned. Other wise people will continue to assume the worst and this kind of thinking is infectious.

 

We need to see something, some kind of model of sorts

 

Month 1 -

New story, New Feature updates, New content like raids / fractals, these take turns already so thats fine, new legendary weapons etc (not always a new map every time)

 

Month 2 -

New balance, wvw and pvp events related to previous story release. Sudden brand storm instabilities in wvw etc. pvp rewards / maps or modes that don't specifically require top tourney play so that a larger majority can be involved. This keeps wvw and pvp players up to date with living story without specifically forcing them to play it in pve also gives them things to do.

 

Month 3 -

New side story or additional events/semi meta events in old maps related to previous story release shows small hints of progression in the living world from the end of the previous story and hints that will lead into the new story.

 

Month 4-

( Gap for work time ) and Repeat

 

Maybe every other 3-4 months we can get a new map but we should certainly not be getting new maps every time while neglecting the rest of the world because thats not living world Thats living section. >_> Considering the current story's situation we should be seeing the most crazy things happening all over the world right now.

 

 

 

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> @"hugo.4705" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > > @"Ayakaru.6583" said:

> > > > Production is too slow, better lay of some workers so we produce even less and people spend even less money on our company

> > >

> > > the lay offs are because of an unannounced project being cancelled, gw2 is mostly unaffected by it

> > For all we know, one of those unannounced projects might have been the next expac. At this moment i'd really want to hear Anet's official confirmation that there _will_ be a next expac, and that they aren't going back to ls-only release mode.

> > If that's not true, i'd really want to hear it now as well, but a silence on this issue i'll also consider a kind of answer confirming that the game did get into a lower investment life support mode.

> >

>

> Yeah just thinking the same, but their special statement made me lost:

> "We will release expansion level living story episodes" just whut.

> Btw was in their very long video saying lws5 will follow lws4

 

"This is part of a larger organizational restructuring within NCSOFT in the west, but the Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 game services will not be affected, nor is any upcoming game content canceled."

 

This leaves me to believe that if an expansion is in the works, it’s unaffected.

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> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Danikat.8537" said:

> > Saying we'll still get Season 5 after Season 4 actually tells us a lot. It means their plan hasn't changed as a result of this decision, and we're going to get at least 7 more living story releases, which if we assume the absolute bare minimum of 2 months per episode gives us another 12 months of content. In other words they've confirmed their plans for the next year or more.

> >

> > According to various rumours and articles I've seen most of the layoffs will be related to one or more un-related projects. Which as I understand it isn't that unusual in the games industry. Developers usually have more than 1 game they're working on and you have to do some work on it before you can decide if it's worth taking through to release or not. If not that project is gone and those people need new jobs. Sometimes that will be within the same company, sometimes not. It sucks, but it's not unusual.

> The most worrying thing is that the next expac wasn't announced yet, so it may very well be one of those cancelled unannounced projects.

 

That is my fear as well.. the message is vague, almost veiled in its message.

However I do wholeheartedly agree with @"Randulf.7614" - this news has only been out a matter of hours, it's likely still a blur for many in ANET and requesting we get told information that may not even be common knowledge within the employee base as yet and then letting the forums and social medias run rampant with wild speculations kinda sucks for those who might already be, or fear they will be affected by this announcement.

But yeah, those un announced projects.. hmmm I guess time will tell if GW2 will continue under a much diluted plan beyond LS5, which if true will only serve to harm, perhaps event stunt its future.

 

Until the smoke clears and veils lifted its really just all hearsay.. But at some point I think ANET will need to post out some kind of roadmap beyond LS5 not just for us the players but for its hard working staff that make it through this difficult period.

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> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> The most worrying thing is that the next expac wasn't announced yet, so it may very well be one of those cancelled unannounced projects.

 

Again, "We can confirm that due to the cancellation of unannounced projects, ArenaNet will make staff reductions. This is part of a larger organizational restructuring within NCSOFT in the west, **but the Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 game services will not be affected, nor is any upcoming game content canceled**."

 

According to their statements, the layoffs and cancelled projects are not related to Guild Wars.

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