Upcoming Balance Notes

[Titan.8215]

Could you consider reverting the split of Superior Elements for Weaver to be the same in all game modes please, its hard to cap crit with ele after banners nerf in pve while in other classes are so easy. I dont understand why a class that is fully glass cannon and do the same dmg as others like thief has that bad cc (I mean, you can cc but you lose all your dps doing it while with DE poison you dont, or dh elite trap) and now even cant cap critic. Consider giving elementalist a bit more utilities for pve, like more accessible cc and better crit chance or even some kind of barrier (with dh you have better defenses)

 

At least tempest changes are good imo, and overall changes I like them too, but when I read that now and in the future you are going to focus on support tempest it afraid me a bit.

 

Please give some love to ele (specially Weaver) in all game modes.

[hugo.4705]

Please, will speak about my bow dragonhunter for once: Design a trait to reduce bow skills recharge by 20%. DH have 0 alacrity apart when using a specific elite skill. The recharge kill the whole thing. I must use as traitline dh-zeal-radiance to deal important damages. BUT I have to chose Firebrand to gain alacricity LOL it's no sense, add bow recharge in DH traitline!

Also I'm sacrifying my consecration reducing trait: (hello purging flame) a very long cooldown, with no way of reducing it. Apart sacrifying bow.

[Yasi.9065]

Firebrand doesnt have access to alacrity.

[Milosz.5938]

Hehehehehehehehe

trololololo

_Conjure Frost Bow: Changed the name of the item summoned by this skill from "ice bow" to "frost bow."_ the most important change hehehehehehehehehehe

 

and few other nice fragments :astonished: ;

 

 

...The increased boon duration that this skill grants has been increased from 2 seconds to 3 seconds. wow 1 secund more thxxxxxxx trololo

 

**((((((((((((((((((** "Wash the Pain Away!": This skill now cleanses one condition from nearby allies on its final pulse.

• "Feel the Burn!": This skill now applies 3 stacks of might to nearby allies for 10 seconds in addition to its other effects. Updated the effects to more accurately represent the attack's radius. Updated the hit detection to be more consistent at close distances.

• "Flash-Freeze!": This skill now applies 4 seconds of regeneration to nearby allies in addition to its other effects.

• "Aftershock!": This skill now applies 5 seconds of protection to nearby allies in addition to its other effects.

• "Eye of the Storm!": This skill now applies 10 seconds of swiftness to nearby allies in addition to its other effects.

• "Rebound!": This skill now applies 5 seconds of fury to nearby allies in addition to its other effects. **)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))** = **1 elixir in engineer utility skill's slot** **trolololo so why you wrote soo much text...**

Usefull trololo changes in trololo elementalist.

 

WOW thx ....from 2 to 3 secunds... more time for laughing

 

[The Dervish.7384]

Interesting gyro changes. However, you are ruined my Dolyak run fun with full gyro Scrapper based on "... Gyro Self-Destruct". OK I forgive you for that ^^

[Klypto.1703]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> in general I like the direction these change are headed.

> praise be trollnet:

> • Repeater: For builds that use a pistol in their main hand with no off-hand weapon, the damage of this skill has been increased by 20%. Striking a foe with this skill now applies 4 seconds of bleeding per hit.

 

Yeah you haven't *lived* until you play with no offhand weapon just so you can go into the fight knowing you will learn how to die better.

[scerevisiae.1972]

#The Spirit changes are truly terrible.

 

I'm really disappointed with the spirit changes, specifically (1) the HUGE NERF of Spirit of Nature healing, and (2) that the changes will not actually make spirits usable.

 

Why are you nerfing Spirit of Nature? It's the only spirit that's remotely worth using, but it's hardly overwhelming. It's main use is low-level sustained healing under fire, eg: arrow carts. I've never used the active because of its static nature, but the passive healing use is fine and impactful enough to be worth slotting into a healing build.

 

What I don't get is why would you nerf it from its current 192 base + 0.15 coefficient to 101 + 0.035 coefficient. That's about an 80% nerf. WHAT THE...?? Making it relocate does not materially affect it's healing impact.... I just don't get it.

 

More generally, I don't think the changes are going to make spirits worth using for the (IMO pretty obvious) reason that they are still very easily killed, and the changes proposed do nothing to address this, in fact it actually makes them worse because they'll be relocated to the ranger's position where they'll be easily AOEed down.

 

The only way spirits are going to ever work is if they are unkillable, or something like 90% resistant to AOE attacks that do not directly target them, giving them some longevity to apply their buffs. Further they should also apply their active on death so that the skill is guaranteed to have at least some impact even if quickly killed.

 

Honestly though after 6 years of being useless, i was expecting a much more thought-through, measured buff to make these skills worth considering but as it stands, these changes are a net NERF. Super disappointed.

[Unknown.3976]

Scrapper will remain a rare unicorn in PvE setting; gyro rework does nothing to address the lack of role/purpose that cripples scrapper in PvE mode.

 

Tempest changes are welcoming, support tempest might see some play in open world and we might see the return of support tempest in WvW.

 

Guardian condi specs getting a boost is interesting. Torch 5 might finally have a use.

 

I am ambivalent about the rest of the changes, will have to play the game post-patch to determine how effective they are.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JohnWater.5760]

Thanks for everything, except for the Elementalist (The forgotten).

They have a lot of CD and the cast is too long for many skills, and nothing is doing about it. "Interrupted" all the time.

Conjure weapons should be like Engineer weapons, endless.

The Elite Gliph summon have to be endless too . Similar with the Necro Golem.

Scepter Water 2 no ground target and make it a blast combo please.

And more survival to them.

 

[melandru.3876]

some good changes

some bad changes

some forgotten changes

 

 

r.i.p. power berserker

r.i.p. warrior offhand sword overhaul

r.i.p. main hand mace overhaul( weapon to slow, for to little dmg u would be a fool to not use axe mainhand) mace is only there for burst and 3 for the cc

[Daishi.6027]

I'm not displeased with the .25 reduction on mirage cloak but the vigor and jaunt changes from the past should be reconsidered.

 

If this was where we were going to go those prior changes don't feel right, despite many peoples complaints mirage's evasion up time is not superior any class that has access to a lot of evades on weapon skills, or can gain evasion readily like DD.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"RAZOR.7246" said:

> > > @"spartan.9421" said:

> > > Tell me how freaking out is going to help with anything. Answer: it won't. Constructive criticism and helpful feedback *after* the patch is what will help ANET make the right adjustments.

> >

> > While freaking out doesn't help anyone, there's no reason why this format of feedback before an actual patch hits can't work. There are a lot of points made on here that are valid. There's no point waiting another 3 months for a change when some feedback can be given now to prevent some of these changes. This kind of open communication with players regarding changes is important for the future of the game so that players aren't left in the dark for months on end. As hard as some on here may find it to believe not all balance decisions are the best thing for the game and the player experience and some players may have something worthwhile to contribute.

> >

>

> I would say the opposite: How can anyone have valid points without playing a classes' changes in the actual environment with all the other changes from the others classes as well?

It's called "being experienced" and "knowing your class well".

 

[Dececrator.9021]

I was expecting to see something interesting on thief, instead you are buffing pistol. Another pew pew weapon with little player skill requirement.

You keep ignoring dagger builds and especially the use of backstab which is one of the hardest skills to land and deals at this moment 2/3 or less of other classes skills that need a little or no effort from the player.

This game essentially has no "assassin" class cause the way you keep updating the mechanics, makes the only class able to surprise and backstab being ineffective if played as one, struggling to land 10k of backstab while a warrior F1 does like 14k or an aoe from Soulbeast can reach 18k easy.

So the players that like the use of dagger start attacking from forward as if they were warriors, since there is no real benefit attacking from the back side with a dagger..

A great example of the really low dagger damage and utility is the usage of sword from the same class. Going in and out with No2 easy, using an S/P 3 with a 3.8k of damage on skill and at the same moment applying stun just by hitting 1 button, while in the same build stats a backstab has 2.6k IF you have the skill or luck to land it from backwards.

A good example for the diminishing of the "assassin" class is that you gave the shadow shot more damage than a well landed backstab. You took the only possible to backstab class of the game and made it sniper and staff user eliminating the true nature of the class.

 

Thank you.

 

- To avoid any miscomprehension: the use of the word "assassin" is used to describe in the above text the one and only class that in every game has the ability to land a backstab blow.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"RAZOR.7246" said:

> > > > @"spartan.9421" said:

> > > > Tell me how freaking out is going to help with anything. Answer: it won't. Constructive criticism and helpful feedback *after* the patch is what will help ANET make the right adjustments.

> > >

> > > While freaking out doesn't help anyone, there's no reason why this format of feedback before an actual patch hits can't work. There are a lot of points made on here that are valid. There's no point waiting another 3 months for a change when some feedback can be given now to prevent some of these changes. This kind of open communication with players regarding changes is important for the future of the game so that players aren't left in the dark for months on end. As hard as some on here may find it to believe not all balance decisions are the best thing for the game and the player experience and some players may have something worthwhile to contribute.

> > >

> >

> > I would say the opposite: How can anyone have valid points without playing a classes' changes in the actual environment with all the other changes from the others classes as well?

> It's called "being experienced" and "knowing your class well".

>

 

So that allows you to predict how things work with all the game changes? I disagree. No experience will be enough to tell Anet what direction to change the game, especially since they don't primarily balance based on performance.

[Exalted Quality.8534]

> @"Iozeph.5617" said:

> > @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> > Again a bit unsatisfied by the elementalist changes... The shouts buffs are really nice but I'd like to see more things changed. A Tempest class mechanic that actually feels like a mechanic instead of a mere AOE cooldown, for example. But most importantly this update does nothing to fix the inherent problems people have been pointing out for years now. I see others classes receive reworks on their gyros or spirits... When do we get our summoned weapons rework? :/

> >

> > As a whole, I also hope to see one day new core elite skills added. The elementalist could use a signet elite and an arcane elite, the thief could get a trap elite... And so on. We are in dire need of more elite skills options, those we have right now make me feel very restricted in how I can use them.

>

> Gyros suck, they're still going to suck when they're turned into wells after the changes because the rest of what's framing them is a hot mess. Core Engineer is still rubbish. Kits have been left in a sorry, non-competitive state(mortar kit included), and any Scrapper using hammer in competitive modes is still going to be kited because they have no weapon swap. Counting on kits to make up for the inability to keep someone in melee range with anemic hammer damage besides if you do get some hits in won't cut it unless you're getting cheap shots in because you're being being carried by a group of friends. You're wondering about summoned weapons? Engineers are wondering why turrets(save perhaps healing turret), and a majority of their gadgets - things which apart from the lackluster kits also used to partially define them, have been a complete waste of bar slots for years.

>

> But we're not supposed to mention that. We're supposed to shut up and be pathetically grateful we were given the abortion known as the Holosmith- the almost but not quite ultimate faceroll elite.

 

UMAD BRO?

[Ryou.2398]

> @"Zenith.7301" said:

> The power reaper and herald PvE "buff" are laughable. The power reaper didn't even gain a significant buff, and for some reason you think power reapers use any of those shouts whose marginal damage you buffed by 40% (40% of nothing is still nothing).

>

> The power herald ones are even more pathetic. You nerfed the consistency of power herald in the 10% damage modifier only to gain a 2.5% damage buff under ideal raid settings (and a nerf everywhere else) plus a slight compensation to shackling wave to mitigate the nerf it suffered.

>

> Power herald and reaper didn't need <5% damage buffs, these specs are behind by as much as 5-6k DPS from the competition; that is, more than 20-30% behind the other top power specs.

>

> The Tempest "buffs" are also marginal and won't see them in a support spot over a druid when it gained a handful of low duration boons on some gimmick shout skills that barely have benefit in PvE.

>

> The patch notes don't fail to disappoint. All you did was nerf druid, chrono, and guardian. Meanwhile daredevils remain as busted as they are for how braindead they are to play in PvE, and somehow it's the mirage's dodge duration that is the problem when you have a thief spec with 3 dodges and massive endurance recharge doing top level DPS by just autoattacking things with the occasional dodge.

 

I am baffled after all this time and the state of reverent with these changes, maybe im missing something or this is just getting ridiculous now.

[PookieDaWombat.6209]

> @"DiogoSilva.7089" said:

> > @"Sorem.9157" said:

> > @"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048"

> >

> > I urge you to reconsider this change:

> >

> > • Righteous Instincts: This trait's critical-chance bonus has been reduced from 50% to 25%.

> >

> > It is the bread and butter for many Guardian builds other than the Core Guardian, which is where it is causing most trouble.

> >

> > Harrier Firebrand viability will diminish even more after this, despite being a high skill floor build, it is constantly getting hit because of other Guardian meta builds. PvE dragonhunter also relies on this trait and despite being a strong burst option, it is what most Guardians play for PvE.

> >

> > Again, i urge you to reconsider the nerf and try to target specifically the build that is causing trouble, which is radiance core guardian for pvp.

> The problem with this trait is that it was so strong, that pretty much nearly every build had to use it. This applies to PvE as well. Now we should see more diversity, hopefully. And it's still a pretty strong trait.

>

 

Agreed. Been playing guardian from day one. I can't say I'm angry at this one. Its an understandable "nerf".

[Sorem.9157]

> @"PookieDaWombat.6209" said:

> > @"DiogoSilva.7089" said:

> > > @"Sorem.9157" said:

> > > @"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048"

> > >

> > > I urge you to reconsider this change:

> > >

> > > • Righteous Instincts: This trait's critical-chance bonus has been reduced from 50% to 25%.

> > >

> > > It is the bread and butter for many Guardian builds other than the Core Guardian, which is where it is causing most trouble.

> > >

> > > Harrier Firebrand viability will diminish even more after this, despite being a high skill floor build, it is constantly getting hit because of other Guardian meta builds. PvE dragonhunter also relies on this trait and despite being a strong burst option, it is what most Guardians play for PvE.

> > >

> > > Again, i urge you to reconsider the nerf and try to target specifically the build that is causing trouble, which is radiance core guardian for pvp.

> > The problem with this trait is that it was so strong, that pretty much nearly every build had to use it. This applies to PvE as well. Now we should see more diversity, hopefully. And it's still a pretty strong trait.

> >

>

> Agreed. Been playing guardian from day one. I can't say I'm angry at this one. Its an understandable "nerf".

 

I also have been playing Guardian since day one. This change does nothing but reduce build diversity.

 

If by now with all the arguments presented here and on the Guardian subforum you can't realize that, i can do nothing for you.

[PookieDaWombat.6209]

> @"Sorem.9157" said:

> > @"PookieDaWombat.6209" said:

> > > @"DiogoSilva.7089" said:

> > > > @"Sorem.9157" said:

> > > > @"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048"

> > > >

> > > > I urge you to reconsider this change:

> > > >

> > > > • Righteous Instincts: This trait's critical-chance bonus has been reduced from 50% to 25%.

> > > >

> > > > It is the bread and butter for many Guardian builds other than the Core Guardian, which is where it is causing most trouble.

> > > >

> > > > Harrier Firebrand viability will diminish even more after this, despite being a high skill floor build, it is constantly getting hit because of other Guardian meta builds. PvE dragonhunter also relies on this trait and despite being a strong burst option, it is what most Guardians play for PvE.

> > > >

> > > > Again, i urge you to reconsider the nerf and try to target specifically the build that is causing trouble, which is radiance core guardian for pvp.

> > > The problem with this trait is that it was so strong, that pretty much nearly every build had to use it. This applies to PvE as well. Now we should see more diversity, hopefully. And it's still a pretty strong trait.

> > >

> >

> > Agreed. Been playing guardian from day one. I can't say I'm angry at this one. Its an understandable "nerf".

>

> I also have been playing Guardian since day one. This change does nothing but reduce build diversity.

>

> If by now with all the arguments presented here and on the Guardian subforum you can't realize that, i can do nothing for you.

 

LOL, one GM trait that I don't touch on my Guardian unless I'm doing a power build on one of my 3 guardians gets a slight nerf and you're claiming a huge hit to build diversity. News flash: if all of your builds are using that one GM trait as a crutch, then you have the opposite of build diversity.

[Sorem.9157]

> @"PookieDaWombat.6209" said:

> > @"Sorem.9157" said:

> > > @"PookieDaWombat.6209" said:

> > > > @"DiogoSilva.7089" said:

> > > > > @"Sorem.9157" said:

> > > > > @"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048"

> > > > >

> > > > > I urge you to reconsider this change:

> > > > >

> > > > > • Righteous Instincts: This trait's critical-chance bonus has been reduced from 50% to 25%.

> > > > >

> > > > > It is the bread and butter for many Guardian builds other than the Core Guardian, which is where it is causing most trouble.

> > > > >

> > > > > Harrier Firebrand viability will diminish even more after this, despite being a high skill floor build, it is constantly getting hit because of other Guardian meta builds. PvE dragonhunter also relies on this trait and despite being a strong burst option, it is what most Guardians play for PvE.

> > > > >

> > > > > Again, i urge you to reconsider the nerf and try to target specifically the build that is causing trouble, which is radiance core guardian for pvp.

> > > > The problem with this trait is that it was so strong, that pretty much nearly every build had to use it. This applies to PvE as well. Now we should see more diversity, hopefully. And it's still a pretty strong trait.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Agreed. Been playing guardian from day one. I can't say I'm angry at this one. Its an understandable "nerf".

> >

> > I also have been playing Guardian since day one. This change does nothing but reduce build diversity.

> >

> > If by now with all the arguments presented here and on the Guardian subforum you can't realize that, i can do nothing for you.

>

> LOL, one GM trait that I don't touch on my Guardian unless I'm doing a power build on one of my 3 guardians gets a slight nerf and you're claiming a huge hit to build diversity. News flash: if all of your builds are using that one GM trait as a crutch, then you have the opposite of build diversity.

 

News flash: if that one trait allows you to run several different builds, as long as you build around it, you have build diversity.

Harrier Firebrand was built around RI. Core Guard was built around RI. Diviner DH was build around RI. I'm sure there are more people running around with custom builds that i can't list aswell. All builds you will less of because of the nerf. How can you not understand this? How is this an increase in build diversity?

 

The "boost" they gave the other GM traits did not take them out of their niche uses. Burn Firebrand on PvE will carry on using Amplified Wrath, like they always did and on specific fractal/raid enconters people will still run Perfected Inscriptions, like they always did. People will run the same builds with the same roles, absolutely nothing will change, except for the fact that the builds that rely on RI will be weaker and possibly thrown out of the meta.

 

Please explain me, how is taking alway possibilities an increase to build diversity, if none of the specs that depend on that possibility are broken? If RI trait led to some breaking-meta build that overshadowed other professions at their specific roles were a thing, i'd understand they wanting to tone it down, but it didn't.

 

Your logic makes absolutely zero sense. Deleting builds just because they all use one trait in common is not adding build diversity.

[Fishrock.5207]

Thanks for still posting this! <3

 

Changes look interesting, should be fun!

[Smoosh.2718]

I have made a post on what Banners could be rather than this current banner change.

I have included all banners bar the Battle Standard.

 

Warrior needs a true support build, like all the other classes have and this could do it. - this way would could have micro-managment of banner skills while in combat.

 

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/70393/warrior-banners-and-what-they-could-be-suggestion#latest

[Zenith.7301]

> @"Ryou.2398" said:

> > @"Zenith.7301" said:

> > The power reaper and herald PvE "buff" are laughable. The power reaper didn't even gain a significant buff, and for some reason you think power reapers use any of those shouts whose marginal damage you buffed by 40% (40% of nothing is still nothing).

> >

> > The power herald ones are even more pathetic. You nerfed the consistency of power herald in the 10% damage modifier only to gain a 2.5% damage buff under ideal raid settings (and a nerf everywhere else) plus a slight compensation to shackling wave to mitigate the nerf it suffered.

> >

> > Power herald and reaper didn't need <5% damage buffs, these specs are behind by as much as 5-6k DPS from the competition; that is, more than 20-30% behind the other top power specs.

> >

> > The Tempest "buffs" are also marginal and won't see them in a support spot over a druid when it gained a handful of low duration boons on some gimmick shout skills that barely have benefit in PvE.

> >

> > The patch notes don't fail to disappoint. All you did was nerf druid, chrono, and guardian. Meanwhile daredevils remain as busted as they are for how braindead they are to play in PvE, and somehow it's the mirage's dodge duration that is the problem when you have a thief spec with 3 dodges and massive endurance recharge doing top level DPS by just autoattacking things with the occasional dodge.

>

> I am baffled after all this time and the state of reverent with these changes, maybe im missing something or this is just getting ridiculous now.

 

It's just their balance team instead of coming up with obvious numerical solutions and tuning decides to offer gimmicks to not have to do split skill balancing across the board.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > It's called "being experienced" and "knowing your class well".

> >

>

> So that allows you to predict how things work with all the game changes?

To a certain degree, yes. There are always going to be surprises, but quite often the end result can be blindingly obvious to anyone that has even a little deeper knowledge of the subject.

 

> I disagree. No experience will be enough to tell Anet what direction to change the game, especially since they don't primarily balance based on performance.

Wouldn't the same apply to the balance devs as well? Are you saying they are changing things blindly without being able to see what is going to happen until _after_ the patch?

 

 

[Obtena.7952]

There is always one big problem with that way of thinking ... you forget there are going to be always more balance patches.

 

Sure it does apply to them ... and if things are not right ... they can fix them at another patch later on. Having some idea of how things will turn out isn't a reason to not make changes, even if people predict some negative impacts.

 

Either the change gives them what they wanted or it doesn't. If it doesn't, they do something else. If it does, job done.