Quadox.7834 Posted March 3, 2019 Author Share Posted March 3, 2019 > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > @"Ario.8964" said: > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said: > > > > > > > I like how you're already proposing nerfs to sneak gyro and we haven't even seen its new implementation yet. Nice! > > > > > > > > > > > > There have been many instances where they make something completely broken and it takes months to fix. > > > > > > > > > > So let's break it before we know what it does? > > > > > > > > Nothing wrong with expressing possible concerns for things overperforming since I'm pretty sure nobody here likes it when the game goes through cycles of "this is the most op spec, play it". I agree, we should be careful about going straight for nerf, but it's reasonable to voice concerns as it gives anet an idea of something they could have possibly overlooked or it gives them something to watch and see if it indeed overperforms. > > > > > > Yeah, but the lack of confidence in this kind of statement is staggering. Usually when things become OP, it's because there were certain interactions between gear, traits, or skills that the devs didn't anticipate. Individual skill changes alone rarely result in something becoming OP, and they are well-aware that drastically reworking something can cause it to become unbalanced. > > > > But we **do** know what it does, that's the whole point of the patch notes. We know that 1. gyro is untargetable 2. moving stealth aoe for allies 3. moving smokefield, the only one of its type. > > What I'm saying is we don't know a lot of things, we just know the general idea: > > 1. We don't know if the smoke field is for the whole duration of the gyro. > 2. We don't know if the gyro still has a fuel system or HP while the engineer is using it. > 3. We also don't know if the reworked gyro has the same duration. > 4. We don't know if the gyro will be treated like Shadow Refuge (leave the area, get revealed). > Yes that's why I said "depends on duration and implementation", not "this is broken". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadox.7834 Posted March 3, 2019 Author Share Posted March 3, 2019 Edit: added grove rune and DE binding shadow. Edit2: tried to make list ordered by importance within each category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > I doubt Anet have time to read through hundreds of pages of balance discussion, so I thought we should have a thread for simple, to-the-point talk about the highest-priority nerfs/hotfixes for PvP (ideally before patch goes live), *be conservative; only include what you think is truly most important to make PvP "playable".* > > > > > > **General** > > > > > > * Remove Energy Sigil from PvP (~+50% endurance, boosts certain traits too much, boost the whole Mirage spec.)(read comments below) > > > > Just give staff ele some bonus then, because it barely manages to compete with energy sigil equipped. > > Yes, but this is more long-term. We will see if tempest buffs can help ele. They won't. We get a few extra worthless boons on shouts, which is just more ammo to Necros... actual useful buffs would be: - more than 1 stack of stab when traited - adding stability to the earth shout - adjusting water overload to heal more per pulse and lower the final healing pulse (same as they did for guard staff) - more health on successful rebound procs Things to actually help against the current META and powercreep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagg.9236 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > I doubt Anet have time to read through hundreds of pages of balance discussion, so I thought we should have a thread for simple, to-the-point talk about the highest-priority nerfs/hotfixes for PvP (ideally before patch goes live), *be conservative; only include what you think is truly most important to make PvP "playable".* > > > > > > > > **General** > > > > > > > > * Remove Energy Sigil from PvP (~+50% endurance, boosts certain traits too much, boost the whole Mirage spec.)(read comments below) > > > > > > Just give staff ele some bonus then, because it barely manages to compete with energy sigil equipped. > > > > Yes, but this is more long-term. We will see if tempest buffs can help ele. > > They won't. > We get a few extra worthless boons on shouts, which is just more ammo to Necros... > > actual useful buffs would be: > - more than 1 stack of stab when traited > - adding stability to the earth shout > - adjusting water overload to heal more per pulse and lower the final healing pulse (same as they did for guard staff) > - more health on successful rebound procs > > Things to actually help against the current META and powercreep. Please never suggest adding more stability and health generation to this dumpster fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > I doubt Anet have time to read through hundreds of pages of balance discussion, so I thought we should have a thread for simple, to-the-point talk about the highest-priority nerfs/hotfixes for PvP (ideally before patch goes live), *be conservative; only include what you think is truly most important to make PvP "playable".* > > > > > > > > > > **General** > > > > > > > > > > * Remove Energy Sigil from PvP (~+50% endurance, boosts certain traits too much, boost the whole Mirage spec.)(read comments below) > > > > > > > > Just give staff ele some bonus then, because it barely manages to compete with energy sigil equipped. > > > > > > Yes, but this is more long-term. We will see if tempest buffs can help ele. > > > > They won't. > > We get a few extra worthless boons on shouts, which is just more ammo to Necros... > > > > actual useful buffs would be: > > - more than 1 stack of stab when traited > > - adding stability to the earth shout > > - adjusting water overload to heal more per pulse and lower the final healing pulse (same as they did for guard staff) > > - more health on successful rebound procs > > > > Things to actually help against the current META and powercreep. > > Please never suggest adding more stability and health generation to this dumpster fire. Is there something wrong with Tempest having a reliable source of stability to keep up with the CC power creep? Is there something wrong with a support skill actually supporting rather than just being "my arms are folded, free kill right here"? No doubt its a dumpster fire but that's because people who don't play Tempest keep coming up with "genius" suggestions that don't actually help at all. you can see one of these examples in this thread https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/64202/compressing-ele-single-hand-weapons-into-a-fair-yet-viable-kit-for-pvp#latest ... Oh it was you who suggested this.... go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagg.9236 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > > I doubt Anet have time to read through hundreds of pages of balance discussion, so I thought we should have a thread for simple, to-the-point talk about the highest-priority nerfs/hotfixes for PvP (ideally before patch goes live), *be conservative; only include what you think is truly most important to make PvP "playable".* > > > > > > > > > > > > **General** > > > > > > > > > > > > * Remove Energy Sigil from PvP (~+50% endurance, boosts certain traits too much, boost the whole Mirage spec.)(read comments below) > > > > > > > > > > Just give staff ele some bonus then, because it barely manages to compete with energy sigil equipped. > > > > > > > > Yes, but this is more long-term. We will see if tempest buffs can help ele. > > > > > > They won't. > > > We get a few extra worthless boons on shouts, which is just more ammo to Necros... > > > > > > actual useful buffs would be: > > > - more than 1 stack of stab when traited > > > - adding stability to the earth shout > > > - adjusting water overload to heal more per pulse and lower the final healing pulse (same as they did for guard staff) > > > - more health on successful rebound procs > > > > > > Things to actually help against the current META and powercreep. > > > > Please never suggest adding more stability and health generation to this dumpster fire. > > Is there something wrong with Tempest having a reliable source of stability to keep up with the CC power creep? > Is there something wrong with a support skill actually supporting rather than just being "my arms are folded, free kill right here"? Stability spam and protracted invulnerability periods are what got GW2 to the putrid state in which it finds itself now. The playstyles of every class which participates in GW2's PvP meta are tragically homogenized, and asking for any other given build to join the illustrious ranks of "passive baby boi who doesn't do anything until all of his CDs are up" isn't adding any further depth or engaging flavor to this game's combat; all it does is spread the same shallow, grey shade of GW2's meta game a little bit further across the class selection. That aside, Tempest is a terrible addition to the game in how it is basically just core ele except it gets extra buttons to press for baseline extra damage and healing. It's incredibly one-dimensional and doesn't really provide anything to the class or the game on the whole. Obviously, adding random boons to a few extra skills won't do anything for the spec, but getting the spec up to par with anything that is currently competitive would require just pumping its lightning field damage, giving it a bunch of easy stability, or some other brainless assembly of buffs which typically carry every other meta build. Suggestions like that don't make any class "good," they only further engorge the already saturated pantheon of generic, DPS specs that also happen to go invuln whenever they engage. > > No doubt its a dumpster fire but that's because people who don't play Tempest keep coming up with "genius" suggestions that don't actually help at all. > > you can see one of these examples in this thread > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/64202/compressing-ele-single-hand-weapons-into-a-fair-yet-viable-kit-for-pvp#latest > ... Oh it was you who suggested this.... go figure. Oh wow, a suggestion to re-work and compress a bunch of core Elementalist weapons which are hopelessly straightforward in their usage and which see almost zero play in any capacity. Guess we'll just ignore the idea of giving Elementalist a flexible, free-aim, mid-range option with lots of movement in favor of just slapping some extra passive stability onto Tempest--a buff which would inevitably get ignored anyway since Weaver is already a low-effort spec which gets loads of passive stability and also evades while dealing damage! Top tier idea, my absolute boi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 most of these are lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > > > I doubt Anet have time to read through hundreds of pages of balance discussion, so I thought we should have a thread for simple, to-the-point talk about the highest-priority nerfs/hotfixes for PvP (ideally before patch goes live), *be conservative; only include what you think is truly most important to make PvP "playable".* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **General** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Remove Energy Sigil from PvP (~+50% endurance, boosts certain traits too much, boost the whole Mirage spec.)(read comments below) > > > > > > > > > > > > Just give staff ele some bonus then, because it barely manages to compete with energy sigil equipped. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, but this is more long-term. We will see if tempest buffs can help ele. > > > > > > > > They won't. > > > > We get a few extra worthless boons on shouts, which is just more ammo to Necros... > > > > > > > > actual useful buffs would be: > > > > - more than 1 stack of stab when traited > > > > - adding stability to the earth shout > > > > - adjusting water overload to heal more per pulse and lower the final healing pulse (same as they did for guard staff) > > > > - more health on successful rebound procs > > > > > > > > Things to actually help against the current META and powercreep. > > > > > > Please never suggest adding more stability and health generation to this dumpster fire. > > > > Is there something wrong with Tempest having a reliable source of stability to keep up with the CC power creep? > > Is there something wrong with a support skill actually supporting rather than just being "my arms are folded, free kill right here"? > > Stability spam and protracted invulnerability periods are what got GW2 to the putrid state in which it finds itself now. The playstyles of every class which participates in GW2's PvP meta are tragically homogenized, and asking for any other given build to join the illustrious ranks of "passive baby boi who doesn't do anything until all of his CDs are up" isn't adding any further depth or engaging flavor to this game's combat; all it does is spread the same shallow, grey shade of GW2's meta game a little bit further across the class selection. > > That aside, Tempest is a terrible addition to the game in how it is basically just core ele except it gets extra buttons to press for baseline extra damage and healing. It's incredibly one-dimensional and doesn't really provide anything to the class or the game on the whole. Obviously, adding random boons to a few extra skills won't do anything for the spec, but getting the spec up to par with anything that is currently competitive would require just pumping its lightning field damage, giving it a bunch of easy stability, or some other brainless assembly of buffs which typically carry every other meta build. Suggestions like that don't make any class "good," they only further engorge the already saturated pantheon of generic, DPS specs that also happen to go invuln whenever they engage. > > > > > No doubt its a dumpster fire but that's because people who don't play Tempest keep coming up with "genius" suggestions that don't actually help at all. > > > > you can see one of these examples in this thread > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/64202/compressing-ele-single-hand-weapons-into-a-fair-yet-viable-kit-for-pvp#latest > > ... Oh it was you who suggested this.... go figure. > > Oh wow, a suggestion to re-work and compress a bunch of core Elementalist weapons which are hopelessly straightforward in their usage and which see almost zero play in any capacity. Guess we'll just ignore the idea of giving Elementalist a flexible, free-aim, mid-range option with lots of movement in favor of just slapping some extra passive stability onto Tempest--a buff which would inevitably get ignored anyway since Weaver is already a low-effort spec which gets loads of passive stability and also evades while dealing damage! Top tier idea, my absolute boi. > exactly my point... Tempest doesnt have stab spam or invuln spam and even with your clear lack of knowledge about the class you insist on these ridiculous changes while simultaneously attempting to discredit those who actually main the class through thick and thin. I explained quite thoroughly in your other thread the issues that arose from ideas such as removing fields and finishers from Elementalists.. Like seriously? no wonder you say the class is 1 dimensional, doesn't even sound like your utilizing the class properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackTruth.6813 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 I don't know about Defy Pain and Rousing Resillience, it's too pointless to nerf those right now because it's not like you can't use conditions on Endure Pain and it's not like the healing does anything when there is so much damage right now..1000 toughness but no soldier amulet to back it up should still be killable within seconds. Passive gameplay like Defy Pain needed to go a long time ago but I don't know if it's the way to go nowadays when the damage pool is high. MAYBE shake it off needs to be looked at, but that's a maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadox.7834 Posted March 3, 2019 Author Share Posted March 3, 2019 > @"BlackTruth.6813" said: > I don't know about Defy Pain and Rousing Resillience, it's too pointless to nerf those right now because it's not like you can't use conditions on Endure Pain and it's not like the healing does anything when there is so much damage right now..1000 toughness but no soldier amulet to back it up should still be killable within seconds. > > Passive gameplay like Defy Pain needed to go a long time ago but I don't know if it's the way to go nowadays when the damage pool is high. > > MAYBE shake it off needs to be looked at, but that's a maybe. If Slb and Mirage get nerfed enough we will start to see defense Warriors (and Holo), and this build is even harder to +1 by rev and (especially) thief. The sustain is absolutely overtuned (ele sustain is also too high but less of a problem right now). But sure I will think about if there is a better angle of attack, like Shake it Off. I can agree that Defy Pain is highest priority but I can't understand why this is still in the game (same with thief passive evade). They did take steps to reduce passive traits so they should go all the way. Ill remove it from the list because it reqiures a rework. To @"sephiroth.4217" and @"Swagg.9236" I agree that it would be good not to powercreep Tempest too much. Better to nerf FB for example. @"Stand The Wall.6987" Many agree with many/most of the points so please explain what you disagree with. Thanks. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilyanna.9361 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > @"BlackTruth.6813" said: > > I don't know about Defy Pain and Rousing Resillience, it's too pointless to nerf those right now because it's not like you can't use conditions on Endure Pain and it's not like the healing does anything when there is so much damage right now..1000 toughness but no soldier amulet to back it up should still be killable within seconds. > > > > Passive gameplay like Defy Pain needed to go a long time ago but I don't know if it's the way to go nowadays when the damage pool is high. > > > > MAYBE shake it off needs to be looked at, but that's a maybe. > > If Slb and Mirage get nerfed enough we will start to see defense Warriors (and Holo), and this build is even harder to +1 by rev and (especially) thief. The sustain is absolutely overtuned (ele sustain is also too high but less of a problem right now). But sure I will think about if there is a better angle of attack, like Shake it Off. > > I can agree that Defy Pain is highest priority but I can't understand why this is still in the game (same with thief passive evade). They did take steps to reduce passive traits so they should go all the way. > Ill remove it from the list because it reqiures a rework. > > To @"sephiroth.4217" and @"Swagg.9236" I agree that it would be good not to powercreep Tempest too much. Better to nerf FB for example. > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" > Many agree with many/most of the points so please explain what you disagree with. Thanks. :) Nerfing FB won't do anything, Anet spitefully made the class coherently better than Tempest in every way because people couldn't handle getting their Condi damage mitigated at the time. Now we just have an auramancer that doesn't bump out auras, but just stronger boons and like seven different ways to ignore hard CCs cause free stunbreak mantra and three whole ass books to spit out boons all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadox.7834 Posted March 4, 2019 Author Share Posted March 4, 2019 > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > @"BlackTruth.6813" said: > > > I don't know about Defy Pain and Rousing Resillience, it's too pointless to nerf those right now because it's not like you can't use conditions on Endure Pain and it's not like the healing does anything when there is so much damage right now..1000 toughness but no soldier amulet to back it up should still be killable within seconds. > > > > > > Passive gameplay like Defy Pain needed to go a long time ago but I don't know if it's the way to go nowadays when the damage pool is high. > > > > > > MAYBE shake it off needs to be looked at, but that's a maybe. > > > > If Slb and Mirage get nerfed enough we will start to see defense Warriors (and Holo), and this build is even harder to +1 by rev and (especially) thief. The sustain is absolutely overtuned (ele sustain is also too high but less of a problem right now). But sure I will think about if there is a better angle of attack, like Shake it Off. > > > > I can agree that Defy Pain is highest priority but I can't understand why this is still in the game (same with thief passive evade). They did take steps to reduce passive traits so they should go all the way. > > Ill remove it from the list because it reqiures a rework. > > > > To @"sephiroth.4217" and @"Swagg.9236" I agree that it would be good not to powercreep Tempest too much. Better to nerf FB for example. > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" > > Many agree with many/most of the points so please explain what you disagree with. Thanks. :) > > Nerfing FB won't do anything, Anet spitefully made the class coherently better than Tempest in every way because people couldn't handle getting their Condi damage mitigated at the time. Now we just have an auramancer that doesn't bump out auras, but just stronger boons and like seven different ways to ignore hard CCs cause free stunbreak mantra and three whole kitten books to spit out boons all day. > > So you think FB is too strong, but making it weaker (nerfing) won't help??? That doesn't make any sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilyanna.9361 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > @"BlackTruth.6813" said: > > > > I don't know about Defy Pain and Rousing Resillience, it's too pointless to nerf those right now because it's not like you can't use conditions on Endure Pain and it's not like the healing does anything when there is so much damage right now..1000 toughness but no soldier amulet to back it up should still be killable within seconds. > > > > > > > > Passive gameplay like Defy Pain needed to go a long time ago but I don't know if it's the way to go nowadays when the damage pool is high. > > > > > > > > MAYBE shake it off needs to be looked at, but that's a maybe. > > > > > > If Slb and Mirage get nerfed enough we will start to see defense Warriors (and Holo), and this build is even harder to +1 by rev and (especially) thief. The sustain is absolutely overtuned (ele sustain is also too high but less of a problem right now). But sure I will think about if there is a better angle of attack, like Shake it Off. > > > > > > I can agree that Defy Pain is highest priority but I can't understand why this is still in the game (same with thief passive evade). They did take steps to reduce passive traits so they should go all the way. > > > Ill remove it from the list because it reqiures a rework. > > > > > > To @"sephiroth.4217" and @"Swagg.9236" I agree that it would be good not to powercreep Tempest too much. Better to nerf FB for example. > > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" > > > Many agree with many/most of the points so please explain what you disagree with. Thanks. :) > > > > Nerfing FB won't do anything, Anet spitefully made the class coherently better than Tempest in every way because people couldn't handle getting their Condi damage mitigated at the time. Now we just have an auramancer that doesn't bump out auras, but just stronger boons and like seven different ways to ignore hard CCs cause free stunbreak mantra and three whole kitten books to spit out boons all day. > > > > > > So you think FB is too strong, but making it weaker (nerfing) won't help??? That doesn't make any sense. I mean who else could take FB's place? What could scrapper bring to the table? What could Tempest bring to the table? Firebrand does everything right. I am not saying it's stupidly op because it did get nerfs, but what I am saying is that Anet just made it a simply /better/ support compared to all of the other support specs. Nerfing it to the floor will make it useless and buffing it too much will make it so no one will ever die in a teamfight. What I am saying is that Firebrand will always just be the number one support and all the rest just severely lack to the point where no one uses them, or only die hard fans will use them. Ideally, the supports all should be viable in some way. Whether it be for a specific boons, more potent healing, or heavy CC/tank. The issue we have now is that Firebrand takes most of these spots except for maybe heavy CC. It's a multi-purpose support instead of being designed like scrapper who was your cc tank or tempest who was your potent healer/aura-giver. It's like league where you have enchanters, tanks, engagers. There is no champion that exists currently that has ALL three of those categories. They will have one or two at best. I hope I have cleared that up because again, I don't WANT Firebrand to be nerfed, but I don't want it to be the end all, be all support either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadox.7834 Posted March 4, 2019 Author Share Posted March 4, 2019 > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > @"BlackTruth.6813" said: > > > > > I don't know about Defy Pain and Rousing Resillience, it's too pointless to nerf those right now because it's not like you can't use conditions on Endure Pain and it's not like the healing does anything when there is so much damage right now..1000 toughness but no soldier amulet to back it up should still be killable within seconds. > > > > > > > > > > Passive gameplay like Defy Pain needed to go a long time ago but I don't know if it's the way to go nowadays when the damage pool is high. > > > > > > > > > > MAYBE shake it off needs to be looked at, but that's a maybe. > > > > > > > > If Slb and Mirage get nerfed enough we will start to see defense Warriors (and Holo), and this build is even harder to +1 by rev and (especially) thief. The sustain is absolutely overtuned (ele sustain is also too high but less of a problem right now). But sure I will think about if there is a better angle of attack, like Shake it Off. > > > > > > > > I can agree that Defy Pain is highest priority but I can't understand why this is still in the game (same with thief passive evade). They did take steps to reduce passive traits so they should go all the way. > > > > Ill remove it from the list because it reqiures a rework. > > > > > > > > To @"sephiroth.4217" and @"Swagg.9236" I agree that it would be good not to powercreep Tempest too much. Better to nerf FB for example. > > > > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" > > > > Many agree with many/most of the points so please explain what you disagree with. Thanks. :) > > > > > > Nerfing FB won't do anything, Anet spitefully made the class coherently better than Tempest in every way because people couldn't handle getting their Condi damage mitigated at the time. Now we just have an auramancer that doesn't bump out auras, but just stronger boons and like seven different ways to ignore hard CCs cause free stunbreak mantra and three whole kitten books to spit out boons all day. > > > > > > > > > > So you think FB is too strong, but making it weaker (nerfing) won't help??? That doesn't make any sense. > > I mean who else could take FB's place? What could scrapper bring to the table? What could Tempest bring to the table? > > Firebrand does everything right. I am not saying it's stupidly op because it did get nerfs, but what I am saying is that Anet just made it a simply /better/ support compared to all of the other support specs. Nerfing it to the floor will make it useless and buffing it too much will make it so no one will ever die in a teamfight. What I am saying is that Firebrand will always just be the number one support and all the rest just severely lack to the point where no one uses them, or only die hard fans will use them. > > Ideally, the supports all should be viable in some way. Whether it be for a specific boons, more potent healing, or heavy CC/tank. The issue we have now is that Firebrand takes most of these spots except for maybe heavy CC. It's a multi-purpose support instead of being designed like scrapper who was your cc tank or tempest who was your potent healer/aura-giver. > > It's like league where you have enchanters, tanks, engagers. There is no champion that exists currently that has ALL three of those categories. They will have one or two at best. I hope I have cleared that up because again, I don't WANT Firebrand to be nerfed, but I don't want it to be the end all, be all support either. I think that's wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilyanna.9361 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > > @"BlackTruth.6813" said: > > > > > > I don't know about Defy Pain and Rousing Resillience, it's too pointless to nerf those right now because it's not like you can't use conditions on Endure Pain and it's not like the healing does anything when there is so much damage right now..1000 toughness but no soldier amulet to back it up should still be killable within seconds. > > > > > > > > > > > > Passive gameplay like Defy Pain needed to go a long time ago but I don't know if it's the way to go nowadays when the damage pool is high. > > > > > > > > > > > > MAYBE shake it off needs to be looked at, but that's a maybe. > > > > > > > > > > If Slb and Mirage get nerfed enough we will start to see defense Warriors (and Holo), and this build is even harder to +1 by rev and (especially) thief. The sustain is absolutely overtuned (ele sustain is also too high but less of a problem right now). But sure I will think about if there is a better angle of attack, like Shake it Off. > > > > > > > > > > I can agree that Defy Pain is highest priority but I can't understand why this is still in the game (same with thief passive evade). They did take steps to reduce passive traits so they should go all the way. > > > > > Ill remove it from the list because it reqiures a rework. > > > > > > > > > > To @"sephiroth.4217" and @"Swagg.9236" I agree that it would be good not to powercreep Tempest too much. Better to nerf FB for example. > > > > > > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" > > > > > Many agree with many/most of the points so please explain what you disagree with. Thanks. :) > > > > > > > > Nerfing FB won't do anything, Anet spitefully made the class coherently better than Tempest in every way because people couldn't handle getting their Condi damage mitigated at the time. Now we just have an auramancer that doesn't bump out auras, but just stronger boons and like seven different ways to ignore hard CCs cause free stunbreak mantra and three whole kitten books to spit out boons all day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you think FB is too strong, but making it weaker (nerfing) won't help??? That doesn't make any sense. > > > > I mean who else could take FB's place? What could scrapper bring to the table? What could Tempest bring to the table? > > > > Firebrand does everything right. I am not saying it's stupidly op because it did get nerfs, but what I am saying is that Anet just made it a simply /better/ support compared to all of the other support specs. Nerfing it to the floor will make it useless and buffing it too much will make it so no one will ever die in a teamfight. What I am saying is that Firebrand will always just be the number one support and all the rest just severely lack to the point where no one uses them, or only die hard fans will use them. > > > > Ideally, the supports all should be viable in some way. Whether it be for a specific boons, more potent healing, or heavy CC/tank. The issue we have now is that Firebrand takes most of these spots except for maybe heavy CC. It's a multi-purpose support instead of being designed like scrapper who was your cc tank or tempest who was your potent healer/aura-giver. > > > > It's like league where you have enchanters, tanks, engagers. There is no champion that exists currently that has ALL three of those categories. They will have one or two at best. I hope I have cleared that up because again, I don't WANT Firebrand to be nerfed, but I don't want it to be the end all, be all support either. > > I think that's wrong. How is that wrong? Explain? Is that not how DPSers are split up? Ones that do good single-target dps? Ones that do good AOE? Ones that are good in power? Ones that are good in Condi? How is having different sects of supports different from having different sects do? Every spec is, technically, supposed to be 'good' at something. Or do you mean that I am about the fact that Firebrand is a oppressive support when it comes to comparing the spec to other supports? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluri.2653 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Forgot stealth on dodge, revert blinding powder to no cast. Then we gucci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilyanna.9361 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Accidental double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadox.7834 Posted March 4, 2019 Author Share Posted March 4, 2019 > @"bluri.2653" said: > Forgot stealth on dodge, revert blinding powder to no cast. Then we gucci Reason I didn't add stealth on dodge is because that traits requires a rework (unless you just lower it to 0 seconds lel), but sure I'll add. Not sure Bliding Powder revert is one of the highest priorites (if so I would have a whole list of reverts for Mesmer). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadox.7834 Posted March 4, 2019 Author Share Posted March 4, 2019 > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > > > @"BlackTruth.6813" said: > > > > > > > I don't know about Defy Pain and Rousing Resillience, it's too pointless to nerf those right now because it's not like you can't use conditions on Endure Pain and it's not like the healing does anything when there is so much damage right now..1000 toughness but no soldier amulet to back it up should still be killable within seconds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Passive gameplay like Defy Pain needed to go a long time ago but I don't know if it's the way to go nowadays when the damage pool is high. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > MAYBE shake it off needs to be looked at, but that's a maybe. > > > > > > > > > > > > If Slb and Mirage get nerfed enough we will start to see defense Warriors (and Holo), and this build is even harder to +1 by rev and (especially) thief. The sustain is absolutely overtuned (ele sustain is also too high but less of a problem right now). But sure I will think about if there is a better angle of attack, like Shake it Off. > > > > > > > > > > > > I can agree that Defy Pain is highest priority but I can't understand why this is still in the game (same with thief passive evade). They did take steps to reduce passive traits so they should go all the way. > > > > > > Ill remove it from the list because it reqiures a rework. > > > > > > > > > > > > To @"sephiroth.4217" and @"Swagg.9236" I agree that it would be good not to powercreep Tempest too much. Better to nerf FB for example. > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" > > > > > > Many agree with many/most of the points so please explain what you disagree with. Thanks. :) > > > > > > > > > > Nerfing FB won't do anything, Anet spitefully made the class coherently better than Tempest in every way because people couldn't handle getting their Condi damage mitigated at the time. Now we just have an auramancer that doesn't bump out auras, but just stronger boons and like seven different ways to ignore hard CCs cause free stunbreak mantra and three whole kitten books to spit out boons all day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you think FB is too strong, but making it weaker (nerfing) won't help??? That doesn't make any sense. > > > > > > I mean who else could take FB's place? What could scrapper bring to the table? What could Tempest bring to the table? > > > > > > Firebrand does everything right. I am not saying it's stupidly op because it did get nerfs, but what I am saying is that Anet just made it a simply /better/ support compared to all of the other support specs. Nerfing it to the floor will make it useless and buffing it too much will make it so no one will ever die in a teamfight. What I am saying is that Firebrand will always just be the number one support and all the rest just severely lack to the point where no one uses them, or only die hard fans will use them. > > > > > > Ideally, the supports all should be viable in some way. Whether it be for a specific boons, more potent healing, or heavy CC/tank. The issue we have now is that Firebrand takes most of these spots except for maybe heavy CC. It's a multi-purpose support instead of being designed like scrapper who was your cc tank or tempest who was your potent healer/aura-giver. > > > > > > It's like league where you have enchanters, tanks, engagers. There is no champion that exists currently that has ALL three of those categories. They will have one or two at best. I hope I have cleared that up because again, I don't WANT Firebrand to be nerfed, but I don't want it to be the end all, be all support either. > > > > I think that's wrong. > > How is that wrong? Explain? > > Is that not how DPSers are split up? Ones that do good single-target dps? Ones that do good AOE? Ones that are good in power? Ones that are good in Condi? > > How is having different sects of supports different from having different sects do? Every spec is, technically, supposed to be 'good' at something. > > Or do you mean that I am about the fact that Firebrand is a oppressive support when it comes to comparing the spec to other supports? Because you can nerf it by removing some of these options and not making it good at everything as you say. A nerf doesn't have to be number changes like "lowered trait X by Y%". However, I can't make suggestions because Guardian is one of my least played so I don't know what makes it so strong / what needs nerfs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > > > > @"BlackTruth.6813" said: > > > > > > > > I don't know about Defy Pain and Rousing Resillience, it's too pointless to nerf those right now because it's not like you can't use conditions on Endure Pain and it's not like the healing does anything when there is so much damage right now..1000 toughness but no soldier amulet to back it up should still be killable within seconds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Passive gameplay like Defy Pain needed to go a long time ago but I don't know if it's the way to go nowadays when the damage pool is high. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > MAYBE shake it off needs to be looked at, but that's a maybe. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If Slb and Mirage get nerfed enough we will start to see defense Warriors (and Holo), and this build is even harder to +1 by rev and (especially) thief. The sustain is absolutely overtuned (ele sustain is also too high but less of a problem right now). But sure I will think about if there is a better angle of attack, like Shake it Off. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can agree that Defy Pain is highest priority but I can't understand why this is still in the game (same with thief passive evade). They did take steps to reduce passive traits so they should go all the way. > > > > > > > Ill remove it from the list because it reqiures a rework. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To @"sephiroth.4217" and @"Swagg.9236" I agree that it would be good not to powercreep Tempest too much. Better to nerf FB for example. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" > > > > > > > Many agree with many/most of the points so please explain what you disagree with. Thanks. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > Nerfing FB won't do anything, Anet spitefully made the class coherently better than Tempest in every way because people couldn't handle getting their Condi damage mitigated at the time. Now we just have an auramancer that doesn't bump out auras, but just stronger boons and like seven different ways to ignore hard CCs cause free stunbreak mantra and three whole kitten books to spit out boons all day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you think FB is too strong, but making it weaker (nerfing) won't help??? That doesn't make any sense. > > > > > > > > I mean who else could take FB's place? What could scrapper bring to the table? What could Tempest bring to the table? > > > > > > > > Firebrand does everything right. I am not saying it's stupidly op because it did get nerfs, but what I am saying is that Anet just made it a simply /better/ support compared to all of the other support specs. Nerfing it to the floor will make it useless and buffing it too much will make it so no one will ever die in a teamfight. What I am saying is that Firebrand will always just be the number one support and all the rest just severely lack to the point where no one uses them, or only die hard fans will use them. > > > > > > > > Ideally, the supports all should be viable in some way. Whether it be for a specific boons, more potent healing, or heavy CC/tank. The issue we have now is that Firebrand takes most of these spots except for maybe heavy CC. It's a multi-purpose support instead of being designed like scrapper who was your cc tank or tempest who was your potent healer/aura-giver. > > > > > > > > It's like league where you have enchanters, tanks, engagers. There is no champion that exists currently that has ALL three of those categories. They will have one or two at best. I hope I have cleared that up because again, I don't WANT Firebrand to be nerfed, but I don't want it to be the end all, be all support either. > > > > > > I think that's wrong. > > > > How is that wrong? Explain? > > > > Is that not how DPSers are split up? Ones that do good single-target dps? Ones that do good AOE? Ones that are good in power? Ones that are good in Condi? > > > > How is having different sects of supports different from having different sects do? Every spec is, technically, supposed to be 'good' at something. > > > > Or do you mean that I am about the fact that Firebrand is a oppressive support when it comes to comparing the spec to other supports? > > Because so can nerf it by removing some of these options and not making it good at everything as you say. A nerf doesn't have to be number changes like "lowered trait X by Y%". Guardian is one of my least played so I don't know what makes it so strong / what needs nerfs. The other fella was right on the money.. FB fills the majority of support roles on its own and unless the whole class gets a rework then theres simply no room for other supports... What was a support before PoF has become a supplement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 hmmmm. Buff thief Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluri.2653 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > > > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > > > > > @"BlackTruth.6813" said: > > > > > > > > > I don't know about Defy Pain and Rousing Resillience, it's too pointless to nerf those right now because it's not like you can't use conditions on Endure Pain and it's not like the healing does anything when there is so much damage right now..1000 toughness but no soldier amulet to back it up should still be killable within seconds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Passive gameplay like Defy Pain needed to go a long time ago but I don't know if it's the way to go nowadays when the damage pool is high. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > MAYBE shake it off needs to be looked at, but that's a maybe. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If Slb and Mirage get nerfed enough we will start to see defense Warriors (and Holo), and this build is even harder to +1 by rev and (especially) thief. The sustain is absolutely overtuned (ele sustain is also too high but less of a problem right now). But sure I will think about if there is a better angle of attack, like Shake it Off. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can agree that Defy Pain is highest priority but I can't understand why this is still in the game (same with thief passive evade). They did take steps to reduce passive traits so they should go all the way. > > > > > > > > Ill remove it from the list because it reqiures a rework. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To @"sephiroth.4217" and @"Swagg.9236" I agree that it would be good not to powercreep Tempest too much. Better to nerf FB for example. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" > > > > > > > > Many agree with many/most of the points so please explain what you disagree with. Thanks. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nerfing FB won't do anything, Anet spitefully made the class coherently better than Tempest in every way because people couldn't handle getting their Condi damage mitigated at the time. Now we just have an auramancer that doesn't bump out auras, but just stronger boons and like seven different ways to ignore hard CCs cause free stunbreak mantra and three whole kitten books to spit out boons all day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you think FB is too strong, but making it weaker (nerfing) won't help??? That doesn't make any sense. > > > > > > > > > > I mean who else could take FB's place? What could scrapper bring to the table? What could Tempest bring to the table? > > > > > > > > > > Firebrand does everything right. I am not saying it's stupidly op because it did get nerfs, but what I am saying is that Anet just made it a simply /better/ support compared to all of the other support specs. Nerfing it to the floor will make it useless and buffing it too much will make it so no one will ever die in a teamfight. What I am saying is that Firebrand will always just be the number one support and all the rest just severely lack to the point where no one uses them, or only die hard fans will use them. > > > > > > > > > > Ideally, the supports all should be viable in some way. Whether it be for a specific boons, more potent healing, or heavy CC/tank. The issue we have now is that Firebrand takes most of these spots except for maybe heavy CC. It's a multi-purpose support instead of being designed like scrapper who was your cc tank or tempest who was your potent healer/aura-giver. > > > > > > > > > > It's like league where you have enchanters, tanks, engagers. There is no champion that exists currently that has ALL three of those categories. They will have one or two at best. I hope I have cleared that up because again, I don't WANT Firebrand to be nerfed, but I don't want it to be the end all, be all support either. > > > > > > > > I think that's wrong. > > > > > > How is that wrong? Explain? > > > > > > Is that not how DPSers are split up? Ones that do good single-target dps? Ones that do good AOE? Ones that are good in power? Ones that are good in Condi? > > > > > > How is having different sects of supports different from having different sects do? Every spec is, technically, supposed to be 'good' at something. > > > > > > Or do you mean that I am about the fact that Firebrand is a oppressive support when it comes to comparing the spec to other supports? > > > > Because so can nerf it by removing some of these options and not making it good at everything as you say. A nerf doesn't have to be number changes like "lowered trait X by Y%". Guardian is one of my least played so I don't know what makes it so strong / what needs nerfs. > > The other fella was right on the money.. > FB fills the majority of support roles on its own and unless the whole class gets a rework then theres simply no room for other supports... > What was a support before PoF has become a supplement. > Agreed fully, i dislike all suggestions around buffing all supports to meet fb, fb is the issue and needs toning down/reworked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadox.7834 Posted March 5, 2019 Author Share Posted March 5, 2019 > @"bluri.2653" said: > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > > > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"BlackTruth.6813" said: > > > > > > > > > > I don't know about Defy Pain and Rousing Resillience, it's too pointless to nerf those right now because it's not like you can't use conditions on Endure Pain and it's not like the healing does anything when there is so much damage right now..1000 toughness but no soldier amulet to back it up should still be killable within seconds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Passive gameplay like Defy Pain needed to go a long time ago but I don't know if it's the way to go nowadays when the damage pool is high. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > MAYBE shake it off needs to be looked at, but that's a maybe. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If Slb and Mirage get nerfed enough we will start to see defense Warriors (and Holo), and this build is even harder to +1 by rev and (especially) thief. The sustain is absolutely overtuned (ele sustain is also too high but less of a problem right now). But sure I will think about if there is a better angle of attack, like Shake it Off. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can agree that Defy Pain is highest priority but I can't understand why this is still in the game (same with thief passive evade). They did take steps to reduce passive traits so they should go all the way. > > > > > > > > > Ill remove it from the list because it reqiures a rework. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To @"sephiroth.4217" and @"Swagg.9236" I agree that it would be good not to powercreep Tempest too much. Better to nerf FB for example. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" > > > > > > > > > Many agree with many/most of the points so please explain what you disagree with. Thanks. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nerfing FB won't do anything, Anet spitefully made the class coherently better than Tempest in every way because people couldn't handle getting their Condi damage mitigated at the time. Now we just have an auramancer that doesn't bump out auras, but just stronger boons and like seven different ways to ignore hard CCs cause free stunbreak mantra and three whole kitten books to spit out boons all day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you think FB is too strong, but making it weaker (nerfing) won't help??? That doesn't make any sense. > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean who else could take FB's place? What could scrapper bring to the table? What could Tempest bring to the table? > > > > > > > > > > > > Firebrand does everything right. I am not saying it's stupidly op because it did get nerfs, but what I am saying is that Anet just made it a simply /better/ support compared to all of the other support specs. Nerfing it to the floor will make it useless and buffing it too much will make it so no one will ever die in a teamfight. What I am saying is that Firebrand will always just be the number one support and all the rest just severely lack to the point where no one uses them, or only die hard fans will use them. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ideally, the supports all should be viable in some way. Whether it be for a specific boons, more potent healing, or heavy CC/tank. The issue we have now is that Firebrand takes most of these spots except for maybe heavy CC. It's a multi-purpose support instead of being designed like scrapper who was your cc tank or tempest who was your potent healer/aura-giver. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's like league where you have enchanters, tanks, engagers. There is no champion that exists currently that has ALL three of those categories. They will have one or two at best. I hope I have cleared that up because again, I don't WANT Firebrand to be nerfed, but I don't want it to be the end all, be all support either. > > > > > > > > > > I think that's wrong. > > > > > > > > How is that wrong? Explain? > > > > > > > > Is that not how DPSers are split up? Ones that do good single-target dps? Ones that do good AOE? Ones that are good in power? Ones that are good in Condi? > > > > > > > > How is having different sects of supports different from having different sects do? Every spec is, technically, supposed to be 'good' at something. > > > > > > > > Or do you mean that I am about the fact that Firebrand is a oppressive support when it comes to comparing the spec to other supports? > > > > > > Because so can nerf it by removing some of these options and not making it good at everything as you say. A nerf doesn't have to be number changes like "lowered trait X by Y%". Guardian is one of my least played so I don't know what makes it so strong / what needs nerfs. > > > > The other fella was right on the money.. > > FB fills the majority of support roles on its own and unless the whole class gets a rework then theres simply no room for other supports... > > What was a support before PoF has become a supplement. > > > > Agreed fully, i dislike all suggestions around buffing all supports to meet fb, fb is the issue and needs toning down/reworked. I also agree with this. (In fact I would perfer to see no buffs to **any** class until we are down to pre- trait rework levels, but alas...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadox.7834 Posted March 5, 2019 Author Share Posted March 5, 2019 > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > > > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > > > > > @"BlackTruth.6813" said: > > > > > > > > > I don't know about Defy Pain and Rousing Resillience, it's too pointless to nerf those right now because it's not like you can't use conditions on Endure Pain and it's not like the healing does anything when there is so much damage right now..1000 toughness but no soldier amulet to back it up should still be killable within seconds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Passive gameplay like Defy Pain needed to go a long time ago but I don't know if it's the way to go nowadays when the damage pool is high. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > MAYBE shake it off needs to be looked at, but that's a maybe. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If Slb and Mirage get nerfed enough we will start to see defense Warriors (and Holo), and this build is even harder to +1 by rev and (especially) thief. The sustain is absolutely overtuned (ele sustain is also too high but less of a problem right now). But sure I will think about if there is a better angle of attack, like Shake it Off. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can agree that Defy Pain is highest priority but I can't understand why this is still in the game (same with thief passive evade). They did take steps to reduce passive traits so they should go all the way. > > > > > > > > Ill remove it from the list because it reqiures a rework. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To @"sephiroth.4217" and @"Swagg.9236" I agree that it would be good not to powercreep Tempest too much. Better to nerf FB for example. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" > > > > > > > > Many agree with many/most of the points so please explain what you disagree with. Thanks. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nerfing FB won't do anything, Anet spitefully made the class coherently better than Tempest in every way because people couldn't handle getting their Condi damage mitigated at the time. Now we just have an auramancer that doesn't bump out auras, but just stronger boons and like seven different ways to ignore hard CCs cause free stunbreak mantra and three whole kitten books to spit out boons all day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you think FB is too strong, but making it weaker (nerfing) won't help??? That doesn't make any sense. > > > > > > > > > > I mean who else could take FB's place? What could scrapper bring to the table? What could Tempest bring to the table? > > > > > > > > > > Firebrand does everything right. I am not saying it's stupidly op because it did get nerfs, but what I am saying is that Anet just made it a simply /better/ support compared to all of the other support specs. Nerfing it to the floor will make it useless and buffing it too much will make it so no one will ever die in a teamfight. What I am saying is that Firebrand will always just be the number one support and all the rest just severely lack to the point where no one uses them, or only die hard fans will use them. > > > > > > > > > > Ideally, the supports all should be viable in some way. Whether it be for a specific boons, more potent healing, or heavy CC/tank. The issue we have now is that Firebrand takes most of these spots except for maybe heavy CC. It's a multi-purpose support instead of being designed like scrapper who was your cc tank or tempest who was your potent healer/aura-giver. > > > > > > > > > > It's like league where you have enchanters, tanks, engagers. There is no champion that exists currently that has ALL three of those categories. They will have one or two at best. I hope I have cleared that up because again, I don't WANT Firebrand to be nerfed, but I don't want it to be the end all, be all support either. > > > > > > > > I think that's wrong. > > > > > > How is that wrong? Explain? > > > > > > Is that not how DPSers are split up? Ones that do good single-target dps? Ones that do good AOE? Ones that are good in power? Ones that are good in Condi? > > > > > > How is having different sects of supports different from having different sects do? Every spec is, technically, supposed to be 'good' at something. > > > > > > Or do you mean that I am about the fact that Firebrand is a oppressive support when it comes to comparing the spec to other supports? > > > > Because so can nerf it by removing some of these options and not making it good at everything as you say. A nerf doesn't have to be number changes like "lowered trait X by Y%". Guardian is one of my least played so I don't know what makes it so strong / what needs nerfs. > > The other fella was right on the money.. > FB fills the majority of support roles on its own and unless the whole class gets a rework then theres simply no room for other supports... > What was a support before PoF has become a supplement. > I agree, **and that's why it needs nerfs**. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcanistSeven.8720 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 > * Instant Reflexes you want to nerf one of the few defense traits thief has. its on a 40 second cooldown and 90 second cooldown in pvp. > * Binding Shadow this can be countered by a block, dodge, or a stun break and if anything deaths judgment should get a nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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