new mount is too fast. Change My Mind

[Duckota.4769]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > @"Duckota.4769" said:

> > > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > > > @"Duckota.4769" said:

> > > > > @"Clownmug.8357" said:

> > > > > Why would you want to be slower? This game's not a walking simulator.

> > > >

> > > > Because I don't enjoy the fact you can avoid combat at will, and no I dont play a cheese build.

> > >

> > > But prior to the mount patch, several specs could do just that, with some not having to sacrifice too much in the damage or defenses department. Interestingly enough those few classes were usually the ones people chose to roam with. Now that the ability is afforded to everyone, it's a bit late to object to that strategy.

> >

> > Name one that didn't sacrifice things in the defensive department. I can think of...... soulbeast and that might be a stretch. Since without mobility it just gets destroyed up close. Unless we're talking about boonbeast.

>

> Condi Mirage + Holosmith both come to mind (in addition to Soulbeast you mentioned) and if you mean to tell me they sacrificed offensive/defensive utility for mobility, I'd hate to see what they could do in full offense mode. Deadeye of course, like most thief builds, suffered in the defensive department, but until recently they basically chose whether there was going to be a fight or not, and/or whether to reset/flee.

>

 

Condi mirage was killed off on offense recently. Jaunt wasn't much mobility but was nerfed. Rocket boots were required to run away as holosmith and spoiler (anyone who ran them is bad as there are just better options). Soulbeast ya if they traited right but a lot were glassy and 3 hits hurt them quite badly. Holosmith is seeing its defensive abilities tuned down a bit patch by patch. Mounts aren't the answer. Proper balance is. Thats what Im saying.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"Duckota.4769" said:

>

> Uh.... did you read that? No offense. My source would be that 453 > 390. Right? Am I looking at this wrong?

 

My original post (that you quoted) I was referencing the Wiki: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warclaw.

[Duckota.4769]

> @"Balsa.3951" said:

> > @"Duckota.4769" said:

> > > @"Balsa.3951" said:

> > > > @"Duckota.4769" said:

> > > > > @"Balsa.3951" said:

> > > > > > @"Duckota.4769" said:

> > > > > > > @"Clownmug.8357" said:

> > > > > > > Why would you want to be slower? This game's not a walking simulator.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Because I don't enjoy the fact you can avoid combat at will, and no I dont play a cheese build.

> > > > >

> > > > > Many classes can avoid combat at will before mount why no “ban stealth in wvw “ ?

> > > >

> > > > Because it has counterplay. There are a ton of reveals. Some AoE. I think stealth also needs/needed a rework, but it at least had counterplay.

> > >

> > > So what’s ur counter to getting jumped on out of stealth ? Can u really stop a thief from escaping u ?

> > >

> > > Mounts have a counter too it called dmg and evade, I don’t care if one guy runs away from me who doesn’t want 1v1 me. I don’t get high on fighting unprepared non roomers who only want catch up with the commander.

> > >

> > > Sorry for u but from now on u will fight people who are ready for 1v1 but I promise u ur skills will improve fighting those from now on

> >

> > Dude I already looked for outnumbereds. I dont want to fight any of you 1v1. I wanted to fight you guys 1v2. Or 1v3. Yeah I'd lose a lot. Already did, but it was fun. And my counter to getting jumped out of stealth is to have decent reactions. Nothing can permastealth that i know of as of the most recent patch. You're missing the point entirely. You should not be free to avoid conflict at will to play the game mode how you want. Conflict should be a core part of the game mode and not just the conflict you're lookign for. Trust me when I say I dont look for zergs to run me over, but man did it happen. It will continue to happen, but it will no longer happen that I have a fun fight with 3 people on their way to an objective because they'll just leap 3 times and theyre riding off into the sunset. Back to die to 14k hammer hits before they run here and say its a good change bc all roaming builds were cheesy. See the irony here?

>

> I promise u no 3 ppl will run away from u beeing 1 using their mount....u don’t look that danger

 

You've roamed yeah? I have 4 people run to their guards and sit there. Only to run into portal. Or 2 who run up and get on cannons. Zzzzzzzz.

[Balsa.3951]

> @"Duckota.4769" said:

> > @"Balsa.3951" said:

> > > @"Duckota.4769" said:

> > > > @"Balsa.3951" said:

> > > > > @"Duckota.4769" said:

> > > > > > @"Balsa.3951" said:

> > > > > > > @"Duckota.4769" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Clownmug.8357" said:

> > > > > > > > Why would you want to be slower? This game's not a walking simulator.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Because I don't enjoy the fact you can avoid combat at will, and no I dont play a cheese build.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Many classes can avoid combat at will before mount why no “ban stealth in wvw “ ?

> > > > >

> > > > > Because it has counterplay. There are a ton of reveals. Some AoE. I think stealth also needs/needed a rework, but it at least had counterplay.

> > > >

> > > > So what’s ur counter to getting jumped on out of stealth ? Can u really stop a thief from escaping u ?

> > > >

> > > > Mounts have a counter too it called dmg and evade, I don’t care if one guy runs away from me who doesn’t want 1v1 me. I don’t get high on fighting unprepared non roomers who only want catch up with the commander.

> > > >

> > > > Sorry for u but from now on u will fight people who are ready for 1v1 but I promise u ur skills will improve fighting those from now on

> > >

> > > Dude I already looked for outnumbereds. I dont want to fight any of you 1v1. I wanted to fight you guys 1v2. Or 1v3. Yeah I'd lose a lot. Already did, but it was fun. And my counter to getting jumped out of stealth is to have decent reactions. Nothing can permastealth that i know of as of the most recent patch. You're missing the point entirely. You should not be free to avoid conflict at will to play the game mode how you want. Conflict should be a core part of the game mode and not just the conflict you're lookign for. Trust me when I say I dont look for zergs to run me over, but man did it happen. It will continue to happen, but it will no longer happen that I have a fun fight with 3 people on their way to an objective because they'll just leap 3 times and theyre riding off into the sunset. Back to die to 14k hammer hits before they run here and say its a good change bc all roaming builds were cheesy. See the irony here?

> >

> > I promise u no 3 ppl will run away from u beeing 1 using their mount....u don’t look that danger

>

> You've roamed yeah? I have 4 people run to their guards and sit there. Only to run into portal. Or 2 who run up and get on cannons. Zzzzzzzz.

 

It’s noble of u to fight 4 but could u catch 4 before mount if they wanted to avoid u ?

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"Duckota.4769" said:

> Condi mirage was killed off on offense recently. Jaunt wasn't much mobility but was nerfed. Rocket boots were required to run away as holosmith and spoiler (anyone who ran them is bad as there are just better options). Soulbeast ya if they traited right but a lot were glassy and 3 hits hurt them quite badly. Holosmith is seeing its defensive abilities tuned down a bit patch by patch. Mounts aren't the answer. Proper balance is. Thats what Im saying.

 

I hear you, but my point was this was considered "fine" by those playing those classes, while those who didn't had to suffer from hit & run burst attacks. Many of the changes you cite happened with the same patch that introduced the mount. For the past 9 months in WvW I've had various roamers zip in to insta-burst me down, or zip away if I was able to return with any pressure, but now that I have a mount and me, along with everyone else, can choose to zip in and zip out, only now that strategy is a problem? Sorry, but not feeling the sympathy here.

 

There are many problems that the mount introduces to the game, I agree, and they will need to be ironed out, but no longer having to deal with 1-sided ambush attacks is not one of them imo.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > @"Duckota.4769" said:

> >

> > Uh.... did you read that? No offense. My source would be that 453 > 390. Right? Am I looking at this wrong?

>

> My original post (that you quoted) I was referencing the Wiki: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warclaw.

The wiki states it's slower than swiftness, but it's reference is the reddit thread, which states it's faster than swiftness.

 

So yeah... The wiki is wrong.

 

That the mount speed isnt affected by combat makes it *much worse*. Going into combat on foot (ie attacking a mount) drops your speed considerably. You are running at 280 speed in combat with swiftness - the mount is running at 450 (enemy territory). Or 70% faster than the runner. Good luck catching it.

[AikijinX.6258]

no it's not

[Lahmia.2193]

Thief is too fast. 3 stamina abilities is too much, reduce it to 1.

[spinwizard.7903]

Warclaw is too fast? Are seriously trolling? Why would some complain that a mount is too fast. I can trail alongside one without being far behind.

[Duckota.4769]

> @"spinwizard.7903" said:

> Warclaw is too fast? Are seriously trolling? Why would some complain that a mount is too fast. I can trail alongside one without being far behind.

 

Nobody is trolling. Go ahead and attack it and show me how long you stay right behind it.

[Duckota.4769]

> @"Balsa.3951" said:

> > @"Duckota.4769" said:

> > > @"Balsa.3951" said:

> > > > @"Duckota.4769" said:

> > > > > @"Balsa.3951" said:

> > > > > > @"Duckota.4769" said:

> > > > > > > @"Balsa.3951" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Duckota.4769" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Clownmug.8357" said:

> > > > > > > > > Why would you want to be slower? This game's not a walking simulator.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Because I don't enjoy the fact you can avoid combat at will, and no I dont play a cheese build.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Many classes can avoid combat at will before mount why no “ban stealth in wvw “ ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Because it has counterplay. There are a ton of reveals. Some AoE. I think stealth also needs/needed a rework, but it at least had counterplay.

> > > > >

> > > > > So what’s ur counter to getting jumped on out of stealth ? Can u really stop a thief from escaping u ?

> > > > >

> > > > > Mounts have a counter too it called dmg and evade, I don’t care if one guy runs away from me who doesn’t want 1v1 me. I don’t get high on fighting unprepared non roomers who only want catch up with the commander.

> > > > >

> > > > > Sorry for u but from now on u will fight people who are ready for 1v1 but I promise u ur skills will improve fighting those from now on

> > > >

> > > > Dude I already looked for outnumbereds. I dont want to fight any of you 1v1. I wanted to fight you guys 1v2. Or 1v3. Yeah I'd lose a lot. Already did, but it was fun. And my counter to getting jumped out of stealth is to have decent reactions. Nothing can permastealth that i know of as of the most recent patch. You're missing the point entirely. You should not be free to avoid conflict at will to play the game mode how you want. Conflict should be a core part of the game mode and not just the conflict you're lookign for. Trust me when I say I dont look for zergs to run me over, but man did it happen. It will continue to happen, but it will no longer happen that I have a fun fight with 3 people on their way to an objective because they'll just leap 3 times and theyre riding off into the sunset. Back to die to 14k hammer hits before they run here and say its a good change bc all roaming builds were cheesy. See the irony here?

> > >

> > > I promise u no 3 ppl will run away from u beeing 1 using their mount....u don’t look that danger

> >

> > You've roamed yeah? I have 4 people run to their guards and sit there. Only to run into portal. Or 2 who run up and get on cannons. Zzzzzzzz.

>

> It’s noble of u to fight 4 but could u catch 4 before mount if they wanted to avoid u ?

 

You only need to catch one :) Then everyone else turns to help their friend and I usually die but I have a blast doing it. On the few times you do win in a day its like woah man that was thrilling and you have to play out of your mind to even make it happen. (1v4 wins never really happen. The occasional one maybe, but 1v2s are much more common. It was an example though.)

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

To clarify the Warclaw speeds:

* In enemy zones, 453 units/s normally, 525 u/s using maximum leaping.

* In friendly zones, 539 u/s normal, 603 u/s using triple leaps.

* Infantry runs at 294 u/s (392 u/s with swiftness) and 210 u/s in combat (280 u/s while 'swift')

 

Generally speaking, that means the Cavalry can outrun the common zergling but a cleverly-designed build can catch them on foot, especially on their home turf. (Although, like a dog running after a car, it's unclear if it's really good to be able to catch up.)

 

I imagine that the better WvWarriors are going to to learn how best to place & use ballista, about posting player sentries at key points, about including some "mount disruption builds." And those Worlds that don't adapt are going to be ~~RoFLstomped~~ RoFLpounced.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

so what im hearing is that if you want to roam now you gotta have mad teleports or mad ranged damage. sounds lame.

[roamzero.9486]

The tradeoff should be if you get dismounted by an attack you get a debuff on your char for a few seconds (i.e. for 10s your movement is slowed and you cannot apply boons to yourself)

Also the CC immunity needs a break bar.

[zinkz.7045]

Mount not fast enough, needs 4th ability - 'turbo fart', that propels your mount across the map at 750% run speed for 10 seconds with an afterburner flame effect emanating from the backside. Also need a dolyak skin to fulfil the full glory of this.

[sephiroth.4217]

> @"Balsa.3951" said:

> > @"Duckota.4769" said:

> > > @"Clownmug.8357" said:

> > > Why would you want to be slower? This game's not a walking simulator.

> >

> > Because I don't enjoy the fact you can avoid combat at will, and no I dont play a cheese build.

>

> Many classes can avoid combat at will before mount why no “ban stealth in wvw “ ?

 

They essentially did... Reveals, reveal traps, sentries, watch towers and so forth all for the sake of Thief.

I don't see any mechanics in WvW that gimp other classes, theres no debuff to heals or condi damage or power damage, theres no debuff for grouping up Or anything like that.

[Helicity.3416]


I don't know what you're talking about, all it takes is a full burst combo of a fresh air ele to almost not dismount a guy who doesn't even evade *cough*

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> so what im hearing is that if you want to roam now you gotta have mad teleports or mad ranged damage. sounds lame.

TL;DR builds with teleports and heavy power bursts will rule roaming.

 

I'm sure it comes as a shock to roamers.

 

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Helicity.3416" said:

> 

> I don't know what you're talking about, all it takes is a full burst combo of a fresh air ele to almost not dismount a guy who doesn't even evade *cough*

That clip is a proof why mounts are an absolute necessity in WvW.

 

That ele had not even to use a utility skill (900 range teleport anyone?) to destroy him with his 2 macro assisted bursts within 5 seconds.

 

[friendly one.5781]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"Helicity.3416" said:

> > 

> > I don't know what you're talking about, all it takes is a full burst combo of a fresh air ele to almost not dismount a guy who doesn't even evade *cough*

> That clip is a proof why mounts are an absolute necessity in WvW.

>

> That ele had not even to use a utility skill (900 range teleport anyone?) to destroy him with his 2 macro assisted bursts within 5 seconds.

>

 

Seen his rank? He is probably using green gear

[Helicity.3416]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"Helicity.3416" said:

> > 

> > I don't know what you're talking about, all it takes is a full burst combo of a fresh air ele to almost not dismount a guy who doesn't even evade *cough*

> That clip is a proof why mounts are an absolute necessity in WvW.

>

> That ele had not even to use a utility skill (900 range teleport anyone?) to destroy him with his 2 macro assisted bursts within 5 seconds.

>

 

You're not very good at understanding what you're looking at.

 

1. I'm very obviously not using macros, because you can see me hammering the skills.

2. The guy is obviously not using proper wvw gear, because I generally cannot do this to necros at all.

3. No dodges, no shroud, no barrier.

 

So don't strawman so hard, all your hay is going to make me sneeze.

 

If you're *not* playing a range spec with very high burst, you're never, ever, touching a mounted opponent *in your own damned territory*.

 

And if you don't know why that is bad, I can't help you, and I don't know why you're posting in a PvP oriented sub forum.

[Jen.6021]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"Helicity.3416" said:

> > 

> > I don't know what you're talking about, all it takes is a full burst combo of a fresh air ele to almost not dismount a guy who doesn't even evade *cough*

> That clip is a proof why mounts are an absolute necessity in WvW.

>

> That ele had not even to use a utility skill (900 range teleport anyone?) to destroy him with his 2 macro assisted bursts within 5 seconds.

>

 

LUL, i saw you posting in other threads and i know now that you also play necro, i guess this is triggering you, but that necro was just a newbie who didnt even react once dismounted, the clip is the proof that only a huge burst, and ranged, and also vs bad players, can somehow stop a mount in order to get a fight, where everybody is running away from them these days.

If i were that necro, once the ele used the burst in my mount, i totally jump into him and i burn him, the mount is an extra life, the ele was forced to used cooldowns already.

Its exhausting to keep trying to explain basic combat mechanics to people who cant even see beyond the class they play, and often they dont even mastered that single class.

[Cyric.7813]

> @"jakt.9381" said:

> Reduce evades to 1

> OR

> Remove CC immunity

> OR

> Reduce hp to 2k

 

Sounds nice

[displayname.8315]

Hope anet ignores this thread like all the others. The running simulator that was wvw should never come back.

 

FYI you can't fight on a mount. You get 1 attack then it's time to PvP. If you care about some guys not wanting to fight you then your doing it wrong.

[Arcaedus.7290]

> @"displayname.8315" said:

> Hope anet ignores this thread like all the others. The running simulator that was wvw should never come back.

>

> FYI you can't fight on a mount. You get 1 attack then it's time to PvP. If you care about some guys not wanting to fight you then your doing it wrong.

 

Just because someone doesn't want a fight doesn't mean they should have free reign to escape if they so wish. As is right now, if they make a bad move, have bad positioning or get caught by someone (in enemy territory) that would clearly otherwise kill them, they can most easily escape as long as they were mounted before getting in combat.