Stop Complaining About Scrapper, It Isn't OP - Now With Video Proof

[Megametzler.5729]

> @"Fortus.6175" said:

> (...) Saying that a weaver has more damage and utility than scrapper is wrong, (...)

 

Just a side note, weaver usually should do more damage (assuming same amulet like mender). However, scrappers can run destroyer easily and lose not that much defense, that would change the situation of course. And if they finally reworked some ranges and radii especially for dual skills and reverted their "dont cast skills backwards, op weaver" nerf, weaver would be close to okay.

 

Of course spellbreaker and holo are way superior and the "good player" argument is annoying indeed. When can I finally get carried by my favourite class?

 

However, after a couple of days now: Scrapper seems strong, stronger than weaver, but not OP. I doubt it will make it into meta, but that depends a little on other builds being developed. I do not know whether they contribute to a healthy game though, since I wished weaver could get some treatment towards more damage and less sustain. Pure bunkers - and lots of them - do not really make games more interesting. But I do not think the issue is as bad as people (me included) thought in the beginning. It pushes a little into weaver's only halfway proper role though, a tanky side noder with few damage and surpasses it with group support and stuff like ress power and stealth. Meh.

[Fortus.6175]

> @"Megametzler.5729" said:

>It pushes **a little** into weaver's only halfway proper role though, a tanky side noder with few damage and surpasses it with group support and stuff like ress power and stealth. Meh.

 

Dont undersell it, they offer healing, barrier, condi conversion (this is incredibly strong, removal is one thing, another very different beast is to turn those debilitating condis into advantages, thats why boon conversion is stronger than condi removal and why scourages are still very, very relevant specially when paired with a support that can keep them alive). Stealth is also very important, imagine a mobile shadow refuge that does not penalize for leaving early, and that can be further extended by blasting the field, it allows resses/stomps, the ones that can be hard to deny with a revive signet, and thats not counting that the person revived and the scrapper themselves get superspeed and barrier after each revive, and if the field is on top of them, things get messier. Weavers can stall too, but have nowhere near that level of team support.

 

I think this goes just beyond numbers, Im not saying they are the do-it-all-be-all powerful beasts that completely changes the game, but they are in a far stronger position that many people are willing to give them credit for. Not everyone needs to be a burst machine, sometimes all you need is a support to keep those damage dealers alive through it all, and my experience in videogames playing supports is that our job often goes unnoticed because we dont get BIG RED NUMBERS so in the mind of most DPS focused players (majority of people in any game I have ever played, and why it is so hard to get a darn second support in OW) it is all about the damage and nothing else, except those they cant kill with that damage, which is why there is so much complain about scrappers now (and mesmers, they are hard to kill, if at all), except that scrappers can now make it so it is harder to kill their teammates too.

 

It has been long since eles have had a viable damage build (3+ years to be exact), last time we were relevant was when HoT dropped, and not because of our strength, but because we were giving chronobunkers the sustain they needed to survive the downtime on some abilities which would otherwise prevent them from keeping a cap, and when the chronobunker went away, so did tempest (after we got more nerfs to our sustain, because of chronobunkers, but we were never compensated back after they nerfed what was causing tempest to shine; chronobunkers). This was about 2 years+ ago now. We have no proper damage and no proper support build, only the self-healing-far-stall-troll weaver builds, which had core ele further nerfed (staff nerfs thanks to weaver damage in PvE, air traits in several aspects not just the electric aura on stun).

[Megametzler.5729]

> @"Fortus.6175" said:

> > @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> >It pushes **a little** into weaver's only halfway proper role though, a tanky side noder with few damage and surpasses it with group support and stuff like ress power and stealth. Meh.

>

> Dont undersell it, they offer healing, barrier, condi conversion (this is incredibly strong, removal is one thing, another very different beast is to turn those debilitating condis into advantages, thats why boon conversion is stronger than condi removal and why scourages are still very, very relevant specially when paired with a support that can keep them alive). Stealth is also very important, imagine a mobile shadow refuge that does not penalize for leaving early, and that can be further extended by blasting the field, it allows resses/stomps, the ones that can be hard to deny with a revive signet, and thats not counting that the person revived and the scrapper themselves get superspeed and barrier after each revive, and if the field is on top of them, things get messier. Weavers can stall too, but have nowhere near that level of team support.

>

> I think this goes just beyond numbers, Im not saying they are the do-it-all-be-all powerful beasts that completely changes the game, but they are in a far stronger position that many people are willing to give them credit for. Not everyone needs to be a burst machine, sometimes all you need is a support to keep those damage dealers alive through it all, and my experience in videogames playing supports is that our job often goes unnoticed because we dont get BIG RED NUMBERS so in the mind of most DPS focused players (majority of people in any game I have ever played, and why it is so hard to get a darn second support in OW) it is all about the damage and nothing else, except those they cant kill with that damage, which is why there is so much complain about scrappers now (and mesmers, they are hard to kill, if at all), except that scrappers can now make it so it is harder to kill their teammates too.

>

> It has been long since eles have had a viable damage build (3+ years to be exact), last time we were relevant was when HoT dropped, and not because of our strength, but because we were giving chronobunkers the sustain they needed to survive the downtime on some abilities which would otherwise prevent them from keeping a cap, and when the chronobunker went away, so did tempest (after we got more nerfs to our sustain, because of chronobunkers, but we were never compensated back after they nerfed what was causing tempest to shine; chronobunkers). This was about 2 years+ ago now. We have no proper damage and no proper support build, only the self-healing-far-stall-troll weaver builds, which had core ele further nerfed (staff nerfs thanks to weaver damage in PvE, air traits in several aspects not just the electric aura on stun).

 

It is the weaver nobody/everybody has been asking for. :wink:

 

It is what weaver could have been. But I still think these builds are kind of boring and unhealthy, I would like weaver to become more holo/spellbreakerish, not more tanky. Same goes for scrapper. We will see how they handle it, I just think it is not as bad as people thought.

 

Now I am just mad because another class/spec got a rework before ele.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> Yeah poor engies..they had it rough since HoT launch...the gw2 community is wrong once again....they only recently became meta , playable after 4 years since 2015

 

Wasn't Scrapper gods of holding points back in HoT before they were realed in?

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

> @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > Yeah poor engies..they had it rough since HoT launch...the gw2 community is wrong once again....they only recently became meta , playable after 4 years since 2015

>

> Wasn't Scrapper gods of holding points back in HoT before they were realed in?

 

Yup, it's nothing new. That's why I don't understand this upheaval.

 

If they didn't want the return of a bunker meta, they shouldn't have complained about the dps meta.

[Brendan.1309]

You cannot compare scrappers reflects with evasive mirror, Mesmers defensive uptime vs projectiles is insane and they can actually hunt you down and hurt you.

 

As a ranger main, I support a meta with slow moving ~~targets~~ players that deal little damage.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

> @"Brendan.1309" said:

> You cannot compare scrappers reflects with evasive mirror, Mesmers defensive uptime vs projectiles is insane and they can actually hunt you down and hurt you.

>

> As a ranger main, I support a meta with slow moving ~~targets~~ players that deal little damage.

 

Is it because they will never catch you?

[otto.5684]

Scrapper needs major nerf to sustainability. It had strong sustainability pre buff why the fuck Anet though it needs a sustainability buff is beyond me. And anyone thinks it is balanced is lying or out to lunch.

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > @"Fortus.6175" said:

> > > @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > >It pushes **a little** into weaver's only halfway proper role though, a tanky side noder with few damage and surpasses it with group support and stuff like ress power and stealth. Meh.

> >

> > Dont undersell it, they offer healing, barrier, condi conversion (this is incredibly strong, removal is one thing, another very different beast is to turn those debilitating condis into advantages, thats why boon conversion is stronger than condi removal and why scourages are still very, very relevant specially when paired with a support that can keep them alive). Stealth is also very important, imagine a mobile shadow refuge that does not penalize for leaving early, and that can be further extended by blasting the field, it allows resses/stomps, the ones that can be hard to deny with a revive signet, and thats not counting that the person revived and the scrapper themselves get superspeed and barrier after each revive, and if the field is on top of them, things get messier. Weavers can stall too, but have nowhere near that level of team support.

> >

> > I think this goes just beyond numbers, Im not saying they are the do-it-all-be-all powerful beasts that completely changes the game, but they are in a far stronger position that many people are willing to give them credit for. Not everyone needs to be a burst machine, sometimes all you need is a support to keep those damage dealers alive through it all, and my experience in videogames playing supports is that our job often goes unnoticed because we dont get BIG RED NUMBERS so in the mind of most DPS focused players (majority of people in any game I have ever played, and why it is so hard to get a darn second support in OW) it is all about the damage and nothing else, except those they cant kill with that damage, which is why there is so much complain about scrappers now (and mesmers, they are hard to kill, if at all), except that scrappers can now make it so it is harder to kill their teammates too.

> >

> > It has been long since eles have had a viable damage build (3+ years to be exact), last time we were relevant was when HoT dropped, and not because of our strength, but because we were giving chronobunkers the sustain they needed to survive the downtime on some abilities which would otherwise prevent them from keeping a cap, and when the chronobunker went away, so did tempest (after we got more nerfs to our sustain, because of chronobunkers, but we were never compensated back after they nerfed what was causing tempest to shine; chronobunkers). This was about 2 years+ ago now. We have no proper damage and no proper support build, only the self-healing-far-stall-troll weaver builds, which had core ele further nerfed (staff nerfs thanks to weaver damage in PvE, air traits in several aspects not just the electric aura on stun).

>

> It is the weaver nobody/everybody has been asking for. :wink:

>

> It is what weaver could have been. But I still think these builds are kind of boring and unhealthy, I would like weaver to become more holo/spellbreakerish, not more tanky. Same goes for scrapper. We will see how they handle it, I just think it is not as bad as people thought.

>

> Now I am just mad because another class/spec got a rework before ele.

 

Weaver is already like holo/spellbreaker, the "sustain" offered by sword barely keep up with the them and I don't get how people would expect weaver to be like holo/spellbreaker by buffing dmg and nerfing sword sustain , anything that hopes to be considered viable these days must have level of sustain in line with 2019 powercreep..no with the old idea of balance pre-Hot...**it simply wouldn't never work**

 

Holosmith still has : stealth -perma boon - easy stab and chainable CC...on top of superior dmg thx to perma might stacks and greater dmg coefficient and how exactly would you plan to turn ele into that by starting nerfing the very thing which makes weaver relevant at all in the first place?

 

 

[Mr Godlike.6098]

Seen UE AT on Sind stream after patch...and seen to much scrapper exploding after rev/thief+1 so kinda doubtful in that bunker bizness. Let's see what happens after ATm.

 

The only thing that worries me that new scrapper looks kinda brain dead mechanically vs scrapper from HoT meta. That means a lot of scrappers in ques.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"JayAction.9056" said:

> > @"Fortus.6175" said:

> > I just find it funny that out of all the classes, the only one with a description is the weaver one with the "only good players" argument that gets thrown around so much, as if the class was this humanly unattainable cryptic mystery impossible to play save for a few godly individuals who "magically" bring out this "magical A damage near spellbreaker/soulbeasts level of damage", specially compared with a Rampage, or Wolf pack burst......

>

> Most eles suck. The same way most Rangers are unaware there are skills outside of the auto attack and for the majority of the recent expansion the masses were claiming Soul Beast was trash when in reality it could rival with mirage, scourge and basically all the elite specs pre nerfs.

 

I've never read anything more wrong in my life.

 

Every ranger knows how to press 4 then 2 on longbow.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"JayAction.9056" said:

> > > @"Fortus.6175" said:

> > > I just find it funny that out of all the classes, the only one with a description is the weaver one with the "only good players" argument that gets thrown around so much, as if the class was this humanly unattainable cryptic mystery impossible to play save for a few godly individuals who "magically" bring out this "magical A damage near spellbreaker/soulbeasts level of damage", specially compared with a Rampage, or Wolf pack burst......

> >

> > Most eles suck. The same way most Rangers are unaware there are skills outside of the auto attack and for the majority of the recent expansion the masses were claiming Soul Beast was trash when in reality it could rival with mirage, scourge and basically all the elite specs pre nerfs.

>

> I've never read anything more wrong in my life.

>

> Every ranger knows how to press 4 then 2 on longbow.

 

You're both right actually. All Rangers know how to 4 and 2, but not many know how to push buttons beyond 4 and 2.

 

[Brendan.1309]

> @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > @"Brendan.1309" said:

> > You cannot compare scrappers reflects with evasive mirror, Mesmers defensive uptime vs projectiles is insane and they can actually hunt you down and hurt you.

> >

> > As a ranger main, I support a meta with slow moving ~~targets~~ players that deal little damage.

>

> Is it because they will never catch you?

 

Well, that's a factor of course, but with more and more people running these slow builds the less people you have to worry about attacking you at all, which means the less defensive options your build has to include. Full berserker ranger is extremely powerful and it has a high unblockable uptime, enough to chew right through a 10k barrier even if you aren't patient enough to bait it out. On big maps like Capricorn you as a ranger could hold a Firebrand+scourge duo immobile behind LOS until someone comes to save them. Catching those 2 or a scrapper alone is even worse of course, but in the end a Longbow ranger is best utilized by ganking targets that are already engaged in fights and repeating as much as possible without leaving yourself open to attack, you can say the same for other roaming DPS.

 

Obviously, I'm extremely biased because this shift in the meta may be bad for everyone still trying to play what they were a couple of weeks ago, but it's working out really well for me. It might be a blessing for others too if you look for it.

[EnderzShadow.2506]

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" since when do you play scrapper? Ranger 4lyfe

[TorQ.7041]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> Scrapper is not OP. It's just another side noder that doesn't die in 1v1s.

>

> With the disappearance of Mirage side node ultra pressure, we are left in the meta now with: Tanky Rangers, Weavers, Chronobunkers, Spellbreakers, and now Scrappers. Nothing kills each other 1v1 unless one player is significantly outplaying the other, someone makes a critical mistake, or they get plused on. And there is so much stability in the game, along with stunbreaks, instant teleports, and fast moving mobility skills, that it is also unlikely that a neutral node would flip one color either way. If a node is won during a side noder vs. side noder, it takes an unbelievably long amount of time. This also means that the side noders, when caught vs. each other, aren't really impacting the game much at all, they just sort end up negating each other's presence. The difference between Ranger vs. Chrono or Ranger vs. Scrapper is null, there is no difference in the outcome of the match. Either situation will result in a neutral node, regardless of if it is Weaver vs. Ranger or Weaver vs. Scrapper. So I'm not understanding where people are coming from with this "Scrapper is OP." It just isn't OP.

>

> Look let's compare conquest attributes, specifically as tied to being a side noder in this current meta:

>

> **Spellbreaker**

> * Damage Potential: A "or a sudden S+ for the duration of rampage"

> * 1v1 Sustain: A

> * 1v2 Sustain: B-

> * Mobility: B+ to A+ "depending on setup"

> * Team Fight Potential: B "it only really brings mostly single target DPS and CCs"

> * Sheer Node Holding Power: B+ or A- at best "If it can't actually kill the player it is against, it doesn't hold a node quite as well as other side noders"

>

> **Boonbeast or Druid**

> * Damage Potential: A- Boonbeast or C+ or B Druid "Depending on how well the Druid can work his retaliation"

> * 1v1 Sustain: A+ Boonbeast or S Druid "Druid is the stronger sustain after nerf"

> * 1v2 Sustain: A- Boonbeast or S Druid "Druid has always been better at surviving 1v2s than Soulbeast"

> * Mobility: B+ to A+ depending on setup for both

> * Team Fight Potential: B- for Boonbeast or B+ for Druid "The Druid can afford to pop team heals from time to time, and stealth stomp/revive"

> * Sheer Node Holding Power: A Boonbeast or S Druid "This is now, after the nerfs to Boonbeast"

>

> **Chronobunker**

> * Damage Potential: B+ "Mainly due to its CC factor"

> * 1v1 Sustain: Honestly it's an S in most situations, as low as a B+ in some counter situations

> * 1v2 Sustain: A- "It's not so hot when focused and usually has to leave a node to survive"

> * Mobility: B+ or A- "depending on how skills usage is cycled"

> * Team Fight Potential: A "The AoE CCs actually bring a lot to the table with coordinated play"

> * Sheer Node Holding Power: It's like an A+ or maybe S- 1v1 in most situations, but when 1v2 it goes down to a B+ at best

>

> **Weaver** "I'm judging this from the very few good Weavers we have out there btw"

> * Damage Potential: A-

> * 1v1 Sustain: A+

> * 1v2 Sustain: B-

> * Mobility: B+ at best

> * Team Fight Potential: B+

> * Sheer Node Holding Power: A+ or B- when focused

>

> **Scrapper**

> * Damage Potential: C at best "It also has no chase potential. A Scrapper will not be able to chase and kill you, if you just wisen up an leave"

> * 1v1 Sustain: S+

> * 1v2 Sustain: S+ regarding mitigating raw damage or A- regarding being able to avoid it "there are better kiters out there"

> * Mobility: B at best

> * Team Fight Potential: A "Not quite as important as a FB support, but it does bring other factors to a team fight, despite its low damage"

> * Sheer Node Holding Power: S+ in 1v1, S- when 2v1'd focused. The Scrapper, although it can survive through the use of sneak gyro, will lose a node when it must do a somewhat elongated stealth disengage/reset.

>

> When you look at it like this, you can see that Scrapper is actually rather balanced. The thing that players are freaking out about, is that we are seeing a real "Bunker" for the first time in a long time. Other Side Noders are hard to kill sure, but they struggle when 1v2 focused and often lose the node while using their survival techniques. What makes the Scrapper a Bunker instead of a Side Noder, is that it can hold 1v2 for a much longer duration of time, before needing to stealth disengage/reset, than the other Side Noders. This is often plenty of time for his team to + him, or fall to him. THIS IS NOTHING NEW, having Bunkers or Scrappers that cannot be killed 1v1. Any of you who are freaking out about this, apparently did not play in the HoT meta. Another reason why I think people are freaking out about Scrapper, is because we just exited a high DPS meta, and sort of instantly landed into a much tankier meta. Again, a meta where a real Bunker has appeared again. **It's ok boys, relax. Let the Scrapper mains have their good meta, they've waited a very long time for it.**

>

> Pointing all of this out about "how it doesn't matter which side node classes are against each other in 1v1s, no one is going to kill anyone anyway" reminds me of what Phantaram had said in a previous thread posted:

>

> @"Phantaram.4816" said:

> > most match ups that are against another side noder class/spec just turn into a stalemate. 90% of my time spent in these extremely competitive and close matches of guild wars 2 could have been with my hands not on my keyboard and mouse. Same goes for the guy I was 1v1ing on the side nodes. It meant nothing. We couldn't kill each other. This has been a problem for a long time in guild wars 2 any time the side node meta turns into a tanky mess.

>

> His thread was titled "SIDE NODING ISN'T FUN" and he's right, it isn't right now. But the community shouldn't be pointing fingers and blaming this all on the Scrapper. Because even if they deleted Scrapper tomorrow, there will still be Tanky Rangers/Weavers/Chronobunkers/Spellbreakers. The problem is within design & balance theory intra-class wide. It is not within Scrapper as an individual class. Stop bullying Scrappers.

 

Completely agree. My thoughts excatly. The way to deal with a scrapper is basically just out rotating. Mid will be lost if scrapper doesn't move off node since if he sits there. It will be 5v4 on the rest of the map.

 

It can also certainly be killed by war or reaper.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

> @"EnderzShadow.2506" said:

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" since when do you play scrapper? Ranger 4lyfe

 

Just trying to be progressive after seeing a dozen scrapper complaint threads pop up on day one of the patch.

 

[ApaWanka.2698]

It's me, or all the complains are about the sustain on the Scrapper but anyone mention anything about been killed by one?

 

Maybe that's the point... Scrapper are really resilient but with low mobility and no range they can't kill anyone.

 

Appart from the point mentioned by@Chaith before, low stability time means that they are weak against CCchains if the enemy knows how to do it.

 

Atm Scrapper is a class that have strong points but also strong weakness. It may need some tweaks but is nice to finish the monopoly of FB for support and have some variety on the game.

 

I still think that will not be as popular than what it is right now due the fact that you only can kill the thing than let the scrapper to kill them. Any class with a teleport o a mobility skill is potentially unkillable by a scrapper, that means, no win condition for scrapper just stalemate at best.

[Rusty.9348]

Well, it's all simple - if we see scrappers massively farming top tier sPvP, the specialization should probably be nerfed or reworked. But I strongly doubt.

[bbop.9706]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> Scrapper is not OP. It's just another side noder that doesn't die in 1v1s.

>

> With the disappearance of Mirage side node ultra pressure, we are left in the meta now with: Tanky Rangers, Weavers, Chronobunkers, Spellbreakers, and now Scrappers. Nothing kills each other 1v1 unless one player is significantly outplaying the other, someone makes a critical mistake, or they get plused on. And there is so much stability in the game, along with stunbreaks, instant teleports, and fast moving mobility skills, that it is also unlikely that a neutral node would flip one color either way. If a node is won during a side noder vs. side noder, it takes an unbelievably long amount of time. This also means that the side noders, when caught vs. each other, aren't really impacting the game much at all, they just sort end up negating each other's presence. The difference between Ranger vs. Chrono or Ranger vs. Scrapper is null, there is no difference in the outcome of the match. Either situation will result in a neutral node, regardless of if it is Weaver vs. Ranger or Weaver vs. Scrapper. So I'm not understanding where people are coming from with this "Scrapper is OP." It just isn't OP.

>

>

 

Trev on point as usual.

 

I agree 100%.

 

The more nerf this nerf that threads there are, the less hope there is for the game mode.

 

Anet need to restructure sPVP by adding game modes that don't revolve around rotating.

 

Delete the less popular maps and add some maps and game modes that allow different proffessions to shine.

 

Refresh the game mode.

[Rusty.9348]

:/ I only hope that after nerf (that will almost imminently follow) Scrapper won't be weaker than before the 5th March rework.

[Swagg.9236]

> @"bbop.9706" said:

> > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > Scrapper is not OP. It's just another side noder that doesn't die in 1v1s.

> >

> > With the disappearance of Mirage side node ultra pressure, we are left in the meta now with: Tanky Rangers, Weavers, Chronobunkers, Spellbreakers, and now Scrappers. Nothing kills each other 1v1 unless one player is significantly outplaying the other, someone makes a critical mistake, or they get plused on. And there is so much stability in the game, along with stunbreaks, instant teleports, and fast moving mobility skills, that it is also unlikely that a neutral node would flip one color either way. If a node is won during a side noder vs. side noder, it takes an unbelievably long amount of time. This also means that the side noders, when caught vs. each other, aren't really impacting the game much at all, they just sort end up negating each other's presence. The difference between Ranger vs. Chrono or Ranger vs. Scrapper is null, there is no difference in the outcome of the match. Either situation will result in a neutral node, regardless of if it is Weaver vs. Ranger or Weaver vs. Scrapper. So I'm not understanding where people are coming from with this "Scrapper is OP." It just isn't OP.

> >

> >

>

> Trev on point as usual.

>

> I agree 100%.

>

> The more nerf this nerf that threads there are, the less hope there is for the game mode.

>

> Anet need to restructure sPVP by adding game modes that don't revolve around rotating.

>

> Delete the less popular maps and add some maps and game modes that allow different proffessions to shine.

>

> Refresh the game mode.

 

You can't refresh anything if you have rogue elements running around as invulnerable, regenerating, stability tanks which are also DPS classes. If you have multiple classes which do everything that one can do in the video game (despite the game supposedly working under a class-based paradigm), you've outright broken it. You can't design a mode which would work if you have a handful of classes which effectively function as if the players have cheat engine running.

 

Nerfing or buffing doesn't solve anything here. The only real solution would be to drastically cull, compact and re-work until you end up with unique roles rather than 9 of the same class which are just arbitrarily more or less invulnerable than each other while they are attacking. However, since anet dug their own grave with ncsoft, you can expect this game to never get the open-heart surgery that it would need to ever be remotely good.

[Rusty.9348]

> @"Swagg.9236" said:

 

> You can't refresh anything if you have rogue elements running around as invulnerable, regenerating, stability tanks which are also DPS classes. If you have multiple classes which do everything that one can do in the video game (despite the game supposedly working under a class-based paradigm), you've outright broken it. You can't design a mode which would work if you have a handful of classes which effectively function as if the players have cheat engine running.

 

There's nothing even remotely resembling class-based PvP in GW2, it's mostly 'flavor-based', whether you like to be an assassin, an evil necro or a steampunk guy. All we could wish there is that the "gimmick" of our choice would be more or less able to compete.

[Don Vega Van Kain.9842]

> @"Fortus.6175" said:

> > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > This is all well and good. The problem is to get Shocking Speed at all, you have to give up Perfectly Weighted's stability on dodge roll, which is massive, and 10% hammer damage.

>

>

> the often **completely** change the way the entire team has to play around them, which imo, is where their true strength comes from. As a bunker with super team support abilities, they outshine anyone in their category, specially weavers, and heck I would take them over a tanky soulbeast any day since they will be giving me nice buffs, fields, barriers and condi convertions whereas most SoB can only go far to decap.

 

Yep, just the second time in my whole game life i agree with a weaver main.

 

Scrapper now is more like a Firebrand/new tempest support than a bunker weaver, most ppl play it as a node kepper but with all the dispell, barriers, damage reduction, double rez, double stomp, rly it's shine in a middle of a fight just like the 2 others.

 

We can see it from another point of view, scraper is an altruistic bunker not the weaver.

 

> @"Fortus.6175" said:

>(...) Saying that a weaver has more damage and utility than scrapper is wrong, (...)

 

XD Not even 10 min and i disagree with you, i played both (not anymore Weaver) and i can assure you that Weaver can make more more damage tha scrapper (someone says 20-25 vulnurability stacks +2-3 burning + 10 bleeding + direct damage ???)

 

Otherwise, scrapper damage ? 5 (stun) 3 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 and repeat and it's all.

 

A point, The way how to play weaver is.....nervoeus, you have to stay vigilant and carefull, you can do a mistake not two, in otherhand, yesterday i played scrapper with a baby in my arms and it was ok.

 

Ps: still love my tempest and hate the actual weaver.

 

[Mathias.9657]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> I agree, let's stop complaining about scrappers, there's still stuff to nerf on mirage!!

 


 

 

 

[Fortus.6175]

> @"Don Vega Van Kain.9842" said:

> > @"Fortus.6175" said:

> > > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > This is all well and good. The problem is to get Shocking Speed at all, you have to give up Perfectly Weighted's stability on dodge roll, which is massive, and 10% hammer damage.

> >

> >

> > the often **completely** change the way the entire team has to play around them, which imo, is where their true strength comes from. As a bunker with super team support abilities, they outshine anyone in their category, specially weavers, and heck I would take them over a tanky soulbeast any day since they will be giving me nice buffs, fields, barriers and condi convertions whereas most SoB can only go far to decap.

>

> Yep, just the second time in my whole game life i agree with a weaver main.

>

> Scrapper now is more like a Firebrand/new tempest support than a bunker weaver, most ppl play it as a node kepper but with all the dispell, barriers, damage reduction, double rez, double stomp, rly it's shine in a middle of a fight just like the 2 others.

>

> We can see it from another point of view, scraper is an altruistic bunker not the weaver.

>

> > @"Fortus.6175" said:

> >(...) Saying that a weaver has more damage and utility than scrapper is wrong, (...)

>

> XD Not even 10 min and i disagree with you, i played both (not anymore Weaver) and i can assure you that Weaver can make more more damage tha scrapper (someone says 20-25 vulnurability stacks +2-3 burning + 10 bleeding + direct damage ???)

>

> Otherwise, scrapper damage ? 5 (stun) 3 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 and repeat and it's all.

>

> A point, The way how to play weaver is.....nervoeus, you have to stay vigilant and carefull, you can do a mistake not two, in otherhand, yesterday i played scrapper with a baby in my arms and it was ok.

>

> Ps: still love my tempest and hate the actual weaver.

>

 

Yah i hate weaver too <3, it seems I didnt get my point across well so apologize for that, i meant it more like weaver damage is below soulbeast/spellbreaker, and more line with scrapper, slightly above but not TWO tiers above, assuming same amulets (menders, or something with a little bit more oomf)